Did LKY sniggered when CSJ told him about his (CSJ) kids?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
A bankrupt is politically powerless. He cannot garner influence or support from the people who can really make a difference.
Politics is about power, and power is about distribution of wealth. No wealth, no power.
Knowing that LKY is a hard man, he repeatedly charge himself at him, and ended up bankrupt. I've seen for myself how tactless he can be when dealing with people in power. "Eh, Goh! Come Here! I Want to talk to you!"
Sheesh!
Oh really ? Wealthy people should be treated like royalties eh ?Good.
Come I am a very wealthy person. You come lick my toes.
Oh wait, I just pooped, lick my ass clean while you're at it.
Sheesh !!!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
CSJ's predicament definitely isn't something people should laugh at.
But him bringing it up in a middle of a "fight" with his nemesis makes me wonder what his true intentions are.
Its hard for me to not laugh at the blood bath that ensues a fool walking into a tiger enclosure to taunt it.
Didn't you hear the beginning of the recording?LKY talked about CSJ's bankruptcy, how CSJ barred himself from politics because of bankruptcy. CSJ elaborated to LKY about his tactics of bankrupting oppositions, impressing on him that he has no semblance of principles and morality because he (LKY) does not know the tactics he uses are underhand.
If you follow CSJ speech through the end, it is hardly the demeanour of a person begging for mercy. There is alot of defiance in his voice, if you hear the first recording to the fifth, hardly the demeanour of a person begging for mercy like some sycophants and propagandist here would claim.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
If your English is that bad, maybe you should re-think about posting here.In SIMPLE english, don't bring up your bankrupt and 3 poor children unless you're ready to throw in the towel and BEG for a way out.
If you're not surrendering, talk so much about your poor children for what?
So, if CSJ surrendered and ASKED to be given a way out for his family, and LKY laughed, I would join in to say that LKY has a very bad sense humor as well!
Perhaps my English is bad. But the issue here isn't about English, it's about facts of the case.I based my discussion on the facts, not on conjectures like you (I think he was begging for mercy when he said that). But when I asked you whereabout did he unequivocally beg for mercy, you couldn't provide anything. It's all based on your subjective interpretation, in other words guessing. Another fact not to be overlooked, throughout his five recordings, he was defiant thoughout. None of the speculation by your claiming that he was sombre and apologetic as if asking for mercy.
You mean a person cannot elaborate his case to show how vile a dictator could be? If I explain my case showing my predicament to a foe, does not mean I am asking for mercy, perhaps to show him how wicked and vile he is.
I guess the story with you is not a simple case of lack of understanding of the English language, your case is more profound and pervasive.
We have mind readers in our midst.
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...bottom line is that if he sniggered at the harm he had done to others using his power to come up with unjust "rules" and "regulations" ... he is just an s-ole....
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Originally posted by Civilgoh:
It is evil to resort to make opponents bankrupt.
Politics of fear is just plain wrong. -
...if a rapist or ganster were to snigger at the harm they caused their victims, the ass-sniffing dogs would be hounding for blood but because they are too mesmerized from licking the despot's s-ole, they are defending him...
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Jojobeach, whatever. If he don't know how to treat people with authority or power with a degree of respect, I wont expect him to treat even normal people with a degree of courtesy and respect should him become politicall successful.
And following his brand of politics, (name calling, insulting) isn't exactly smiled upon by politicians either.
So, by bringing up his children, what was his motives? Why did he need to bring it up?
To me, its either asking for some leniency, or, trying to gain public sympathy from people who see or hear the recording. And since he's not surrendering, so he can't be asking for leniency. So to me, he's just trying to gain sympathy. *Snigger*
On one hand, we have a government that can be rather authoritarian, and our democracy very illiberal. On the other, is a reckless and a maverick of a politician. I definitely won't favor the maverick.
Its been nice exchanging opinions with u all, but its getting a bit late for me as well. I hop you'all will pardon me for being very blunt with some of my views.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Jojobeach, whatever. If he don't know how to treat people with authority or power with a degree of respect, I wont expect him to treat even normal people with a degree of courtesy and respect should him become politicall successful.
And following his brand of politics, (name calling, insulting) isn't exactly smiled upon by politicians either.
So, by bringing up his children, what was his motives? Why did he need to bring it up?
To me, its either asking for some leniency, or, trying to gain public sympathy from people who see or hear the recording. And since he's not surrendering, so he can't be asking for leniency. So to me, he's just trying to gain sympathy. *Snigger*
On one hand, we have a government that can be rather authoritarian, and our democracy very illiberal. On the other, is a reckless and a maverick of a politician. I definitely won't favor the maverick.
Its been nice exchanging opinions with u all, but its getting a bit late for me as well. I hop you'all will pardon me for being very blunt with some of my views.
What CSJ did was not my source of disgust.
It was LKY I am disgusted at.
It could be a drunkard, a beggar, a retard talking to LKY.
But as a MM is that how he should behave ?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Jojobeach, whatever. If he don't know how to treat people with authority or power with a degree of respect, I wont expect him to treat even normal people with a degree of courtesy and respect should him become politicall successful.
And following his brand of politics, (name calling, insulting) isn't exactly smiled upon by politicians either.
So, by bringing up his children, what was his motives? Why did he need to bring it up?
To me, its either asking for some leniency, or, trying to gain public sympathy from people who see or hear the recording. And since he's not surrendering, so he can't be asking for leniency. So to me, he's just trying to gain sympathy. *Snigger*
On one hand, we have a government that can be rather authoritarian, and our democracy very illiberal. On the other, is a reckless and a maverick of a politician. I definitely won't favor the maverick.
Its been nice exchanging opinions with u all, but its getting a bit late for me as well. I hop you'all will pardon me for being very blunt with some of my views.
Firstly LKY and GCT are not normal people like you and me. If you strongly believe in your opinion that someone was a dictator and tyrant, would you grant him a degree of courtesy. Would you give respect and courtesy to Hitler or our Japanese tormentors during WW2?Your point about him insulting and name calling is not exactly one sided. Have you not seen LKY call James Gomez a liar and the other names he calls his other political opponents. Why not exact the same standard to your idol, instead of taking a one sided LKY always right view.
If you had heard all the recording, if you have the mental rigour, you would find that,
1) his demeanour from recording 1 to recording 5 was not that of someone asking for mercy or forgiveness.
2) if you had heard the beginning of the recording where LKY sniggered, you will also have noticed that the discussion about bankruptcy came about when LKY said he silenced himself (CSJ) politically by being bankrupt. He then proceeded to show the court how wicked LKY was by elaborating the consequence of his bankruptcy.
If he was indeed apologetic and asking for mercy, his voice from either beginning or end would have been submissive, but no such submissive attitude happened.
After you lost your case about CSJ asking for mercy from LKY, you are side stepping to asking for sympathy from the public. What sympathy could the public accord him? He was made bankrupt by LKY and his children are affected. What manner of sympathy does he want the public to accord him?
You are not blunt, just subjective in your interpretations.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
...if a rapist or ganster were to snigger at the harm they caused their victims, the ass-sniffing dogs would be hounding for blood but because they are too mesmerized from licking the despot's s-ole, they are defending him...
Some feebled minded individuals are extremely susceptible to brainwashing by P4P propaganda, if someone controls the newspaper you read, the news on tv you watch and the kind of programmes you watch, that person can brainwash you into believing anything.
Media is an extremely powerful tool.
If they put on the news that a man actually walked on Mars, I wonder how many would believed it.
To prevent ourselves from being brainwashed by government propaganda, we have to be mindful of the news that's being fed to us. Always be objective in your analysis, based your opinions on only the facts of the case and not on guesses.
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Shotgun,
Do you believe that our media (newspaper & TV) are free from P4P propaganda?
It would seem that you have been affected by the P4P propaganda, because you are prejudicial to CSJ even before hearing the recording from part 1 to 5. You were emotional about him rather than looking at the facts and providing a rational response. You based your analysis on guessing what his intentions were, rather than basing it on the facts in the recordings.
You are only a sad victim of political propaganda.
Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
If you had listened to the recording objectively, the snigger came directly after CSJ mentioned his children. Not much before and not much after. It's like me slapping you and you crying out in pain 10 seconds later. Look at it objectively, when did the snigger occured?Like I said, there isn't a perfect analogy to follow this perfectly. But the main idea is still, CSJ final predicament does not justify humour. Moreover like I said, a snigger is not humour, it's more like a mock in a disrespectful way. Kind of like I had the upper hand, you went against me, now you suffer the consequences.
Same can be said about you, your blind exaltation of LKY is extremely admirable, much like the devotion of my pet dogs to me.
You calling me a "lapdog"? That means sod-all when it comes from a SDP cultist who has the comprehension ability of a boiled potato. Now excuse me while I tune in to 'Nevermind The Buzzcocks'.
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i am sniggering when i heard lky's wife in great coma. ;3
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
CSJ is CSJ. The suffering children are not CSJ.
Why snigger at the children?
If Mr. A beats Mr. B on the streets. A few days later, Mr. B beats Mr. A on the streets.
Afew days later, Mr. B sees Mr. A's young kids playing in the playground, he proceeds to beat them up too.
That's a new low for LKY, taking it out on CSJ's young children.
冤有头，债有主。
This is not Dynastic China where the crime of a single individual will cause an Imperial Decree to be passed by the Emperor, resulting in the death of his whole clan.
Perhaps this is.
no..this is not dynastic China..this is dynastic sg. where have u been for the past 40+ years??
if CSJ is bankrupt, and there is a donation drive..i will not donate to him..but to his children. hes bankrupt, but he can still find a job. apply for welfare and such using his right as a sg citizen.
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Before we judge, i would like to remind ALL here of certain facts.
1. A law had been broken over this alleged recording. Transcripts are allowed and must be obtained from the court, to help in a trial for lawyers on both sides, but it is illegal to broadcast it in public, without authorisation or permission, if it would even be possible.
The case with CSJ and the Lees no doubt is an open court, with public audiences and media present, but privacy must be respected and as such, private recordings or video-recordings are not allowed, save those by the court for its use to judge or review a case.
That this recording had been made public, - the law had been brokened.
2. The authorities are now investigating the case of this recording, as who were the one/ones who made such recordings and broke the law, or even using these disputed recordings to judge or to push their own agendas.
3. Now that the alleged recording had been made public, can or dare anyone vouch for its authenticity? With easy software, Osama can be made to say he is a Jew and Bush admit he is a closet gay. Was the alleged snigger original or was it edited in? Had anyone of you here thought about its authenticity?
Thus, it behooves everyone to be careful when dealing with court's evidences illegally made public, more so from a person of dubious character known as the TS here.
Let it be known that now you are aware. Irregardless if you want to turn a deaf ear to it, you are fully responsible for your own actions and do not hope to pass the buck to someone else. You are dealing with illegal material, worse still, it concerns our head of State.
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yikes !
/me sniggering........
"With the pay revision, the annual salary for President SR Nathan will go up from $3.1 million this year to $3.87 million in 2008, the Prime Minister's from $3.09 million to $3.76 million, ministers and senior permanent secretaries, from $1.593 million to $1.94 million, entry superscale grade Admin officers, from $384,000 to $398,000 and MPs, from $216,300 to $225,000"
How much are you poor pro-PAP forumers earning ???
/me sniggering louder.......
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When he snigger it can means 3 things
Some people feel tat he is laughing at the plight of his children and LKY is cruel. Some examples used r people laughing at the earthquake victims or rapist laughing at theier raped victims
Second, it can also mean he is laughing at him for bringing out irrelevant points out. Example is a rapist telling the court he has 3 children and a witness snigger at the situation since it is a irony tat since he know he has 3 children, why does he still go and rape women.
Thirdly, he simply think of some old jokes in his mind and he laugh at it
Personally, since we r not him, it is groundless and meaningless to pretend to be him, then assume something out of it then blame it on him. Tis is utterly meaningless.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
When he snigger it can means 3 things
Some people feel tat he is laughing at the plight of his children and LKY is cruel. Some examples used r people laughing at the earthquake victims or rapist laughing at theier raped victims
Second, it can also mean he is laughing at him for bringing out irrelevant points out. Example is a rapist telling the court he has 3 children and a witness snigger at the situation since it is a irony tat since he know he has 3 children, why does he still go and rape women.
Thirdly, he simply think of some old jokes in his mind and he laugh at it
Personally, since we r not him, it is groundless and meaningless to pretend to be him, then assume something out of it then blame it on him. Tis is utterly meaningless.
Hehehe....Aren't you digging for lame reasons to defend him?
For your second lame attempt to absolve him, if you hear the recording, it's hardly irrelevant, as he was just elaborating his plight to LKY showing the courts how evil he was.
Thinking of old jokes, when CSJ was telling him his plight? Does the old man have an ounce of compassion in him? Or you telling us that he has a warped sense of humour when a case of importance is ongoing. It's like going to the International Courts of Justice, during the presentaion of Malaysian's case about the claim to Pedra Branca, you snigger at them. How insolent do you think that is?
Like you said, since we are not him, we should not try to think what he was thinking. We should just look at the sequence of events that occured impartially that led him to snigger, which was when CSJ mentioned him being a bankrupt and having the responsibility to take care of his 3 children. Essentially a snigger is different from a laugh, if you had the distinction to be impartial, a snigger is a mocking at your foe in an extremely disrespectful way. Perhaps he can be respectful, because he has the utmost rights in the courts.
All I ask is that all the P4P supporters stop idolising him, look at the facts of the case and not be swayed by the strong feelings of admiration you have for the old man.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
You calling me a "lapdog"? That means sod-all when it comes from a SDP cultist who has the comprehension ability of a boiled potato. Now excuse me while I tune in to 'Nevermind The Buzzcocks'.
I didn't call you a lapdog, you called yourself one.
I just admire you kind of devotion, don't you know dogs are one of the most faithful creatures. Your admiration and devotion is exceptional surpassing the loyalty of dogs.
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Originally posted by 798:
i am sniggering when i heard lky's wife in great coma. ;3
I guess many would have sniggered when LHL got cancer and many more will snigger when he has a relapse in the future.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Before we judge, i would like to remind ALL here of certain facts.
1. A law had been broken over this alleged recording. Transcripts are allowed and must be obtained from the court, to help in a trial for lawyers on both sides, but it is illegal to broadcast it in public, without authorisation or permission, if it would even be possible.
The case with CSJ and the Lees no doubt is an open court, with public audiences and media present, but privacy must be respected and as such, private recordings or video-recordings are not allowed, save those by the court for its use to judge or review a case.
That this recording had been made public, - the law had been brokened.
2. The authorities are now investigating the case of this recording, as who were the one/ones who made such recordings and broke the law, or even using these disputed recordings to judge or to push their own agendas.
3. Now that the alleged recording had been made public, can or dare anyone vouch for its authenticity? With easy software, Osama can be made to say he is a Jew and Bush admit he is a closet gay. Was the alleged snigger original or was it edited in? Had anyone of you here thought about its authenticity?
Thus, it behooves everyone to be careful when dealing with court's evidences illegally made public, more so from a person of dubious character known as the TS here.
Let it be known that now you are aware. Irregardless if you want to turn a deaf ear to it, you are fully responsible for your own actions and do not hope to pass the buck to someone else. You are dealing with illegal material, worse still, it concerns our head of State.
1) Which law is that? Maybe you can point out the particular act? Or is this the case where something incriminating that has put LKY in a very bad light leaked out and the police are digging through the acts to find ways and means to incriminate the Chees again.2) First of all, if was just a normal court case, there is nothing to be alarmed about, unless something abnormal happened that would put certain litigants in a very bad light. Then that particular litigant would feel that something has to be done to restrict the recordings to prevent the public from finding out the truth.
3) If it was fake, then LKY can sue again for defamation, but if he doesn't then the tape would be authentic and truthful.
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Originally posted by domonkassyu:
no..this is not dynastic China..this is dynastic sg. where have u been for the past 40+ years??
if CSJ is bankrupt, and there is a donation drive..i will not donate to him..but to his children. hes bankrupt, but he can still find a job. apply for welfare and such using his right as a sg citizen.
Frankly I am neutral towards CSJ, I neither support him or against him.But his courage to stand up against an authoritarian is indeed admirable, though they are sometimes in extremes.
Like most misinformed said, he has selfish intentions and he is doing all this for his own benefits. What benefits has he derived? Being thrown in jail? Being made a bankrupt? If it was anybody else, wouldn't it have been more beneficial to migrate to another country as a political immigrant and start anew for his family. What's his reason for staying? Because he likes to be imprisoned?
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Like most misinformed said, he has selfish intentions and he is doing all this for his own benefits.
Chee Soon Juan has what selfish intentions?
Those against him please explain.
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*sniggers.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Chee Soon Juan has what selfish intentions?
Those against him please explain.
If it was me, I would have long migrated to Australia or US as a political asylum seeker. It would have been more beneficial for me and my family. Why stay in Singapore to continue to be persecuted by a distorted system?