RSS Courageous
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I wish the crew of the Courageous a speedy recovery. Condolences to the family of the those who have perished from the unfortunate accident.
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*a min of silence*
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let this be a learning chapter in the history of the Republic of Singapore Navy
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Sir,Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:let this be a learning chapter in the history of the Republic of Singapore Navy
U got to start writing this chapter 1 now.
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A sad incident...
4 full-time specialists of the RSS Courageous...
All female victims... 3 missing and 1 dead! -
pls lah.... this not our FIRST LESSON liao... i feel damn sad for the crew's...... but not the OOW.... just dont understand what the fcuk the offical is doing!!! opsssss think i gonna control abit... that flicking reports is not out yet..... so.... no comment first....Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:let this be a learning chapter in the history of the Republic of Singapore Navy
er..... btw, how come i dont see any Navy guyz in this forums? (so many commando!!!) think if there's any seaman around... they will also agree with me... coz.... the OOW should be able to bring the ship to a safe course.... KNN.... -
According to my underground spy network, the navy ship is conducting a secret cloaking device experiment, apparantly the experiment went so well which made the ship disappear from the cargo ship radar screen, that, explain the excessive personnel and the accident -
Maybe all are mobalize back camp for mission?Originally posted by NDU:pls lah.... this not our FIRST LESSON liao... i feel damn sad for the crew's...... but not the OOW.... just dont understand what the fcuk the offical is doing!!! opsssss think i gonna control abit... that flicking reports is not out yet..... so.... no comment first....
er..... btw, how come i dont see any Navy guyz in this forums? (so many commando!!!) think if there's any seaman around... they will also agree with me... coz.... the OOW should be able to bring the ship to a safe course.... KNN.... -
wah lao..... what spy??? dont be a joker down here ok!!!Originally posted by bigballs11: According to my underground spy network, the navy ship is conducting a secret cloaking device experiment, apparantly the experiment went so well which made the ship disappear from the cargo ship radar screen, that, explain the excessive personnel and the accident
according to R.O.R i think we should be GETTING OUT OF OUR WAY FOR THAT CARGO VESSEL!!!!
i sail onboard almost all type of navy ships b4.... and at every moment..... there will be 1x OOW, 1x POOW, 1x radio man, 1x radar man, 1x lookout, 1x Helm-man, 1x M.E on watch!!!!
OOW- official of the watch, he/she will be taking charge of the ENTIRE ship movement, he/she will give all order for the wtach crew.... example... what type of speed.... from what course to whta course.... sending what type of msg to HQ... and etc...
POOW- a specialist who will asst the OOW..... for exapmle.... he ensure all his crew to have perform what they need to perform.... check on the surrounding..... normally if thats any problem in indentified any 'contact'... the watch man will depend alot on this jocker.... coz... he should be experience eought!!
Radio man- he's the key man to relay all msg from HQ to that mother ship.
Radar man- hes the one that take down all 'fix' for the ship. he need to 'inform' the watch man abt the sur-rounding movement of all ships!!!!!! he need to work hand in hand with the LOOK OUT as in IDENTIFIED those contact and report to OOW.
LOOK out- normally... if we attach to any naval ship... we will be look out!!! therefore... i know this quite well!! KKEP A GOOD LOOK OUT AROUND OUR MOTHER SHIP!! ANY SHIP THAT COME NEAR TO US MUST REPORT STRIGHT AWAY TO OOW!!! ANY SHIP THAT CROSS OUR PATH MUST REPORT AT ONCE!! AND YOU HAVE TO REPORT ANY 'SEE-ABLE' VESEELS AROUND US(360 DEGREE!!!)
hels- man- hes the one that 'drive' the ship.... he cant made any decision on what course to take!! he will only act when he get any order from the OOW.
M-E - hes the one that taking care of any break down... and HEAD COUNT for the ship crew (at night!!!!!!!)..
what ur underground spy was all BULLSHIT!!!! you know anything abt R.O.R??? you know that we gonna GIVE WAT to that cargo ship?? you know that by right... our ship should have taking early precaution as we will be running into others path or others running into our path!!!!
something i dont understand at all!!!
1. whats the OOW doing? he should know that ... by travelling at this course... at this speed... he will never CLEAR the path for another vessel...
2. where's the radar man? sleeping? KNN... for that ship to see us.... maybe abit problem.... for us to see them... KNN got problem mer???? dont tell me ur radar cant pick up any contact?
3. where's the lOOk-OUT?? having smoke break? chatting over his HP with his GF??? what the fcuk hes doing? KILL this SUcker!!!!!
4. were's the POOW?? hes there to asst the OOW....
any seaman here?? comment pls...
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Frankly... its too early to say who is at fault...
even if you have so many people on watch...
Could it be that the container vessel suddenly change course??
lets say... if the RSN vessel was perhaps stationary at that spot... since its obviously guarding the island from you know who and since i doubt that there are any kuku mud-landers who would try to land on the island at such a time in view of the lack of visibility... thus no need to move about so much....
then along came this container vessel that couldnt see the PV because of its size , waves, watever lah... OR maybe it saw the PV but wanna sail pass the PV from the head rather then from the aft of the PV for safety reasons...
as the 2 vessels gets closer... the RSN PV might think that the container vessel wont hit the PV... or perhaps... it wont hit the PV at the current course and speed.... and pass the PV safely to the aft of the PV..
Suddenly... just minutes before the ships gets any closer... the captain of the ANL indonesia decided to change course to the right... and that probably brought the 2 ship into direct collision... in the view of the PV captain... shocked at the sudden change of course...
The RSN PV suddenly realise that the ANL has changed course and it now heading striaght for the PV... the captain of the PV quickly ordered the PV to full speed ahead to get out of the containers path...
BUT as the PV speeds up.. the container vessel continue to turn right as it tries to avoid the PV that is moving to its ahead right....and the ship gets closer and closer to each other...
finally... the 2 ship hit each other .... as both were unable to change course fast enough...
the above are mere speculations of mine.....
another potential conspiracy involves malaysia....
As we all know.. malaysia has been laying claim to the island.. it could be that they try to gain control of the sea around pedra branca by attempting to gain control over the navigational control of merchant ships around that area... by sending course and speed directions to ships around there...
Since RSN PVs might be too small to be detected by malaysian radar.... perhaps the PV was behind the lighthouse ....
The Malaysian authority ordered the ANL indonesia to change course right into the path of RSN PVs... either realising or NOT realising that there is a RSN PV at that heading... thus either INTENTIONALLY or UNINTENTIONALLY causing the accident.... -
Just curious... how fast will it take a HUGE container vessel to change it course at the last minute?
I'm a loyal Singapore soldier, but i don't think it's another potential conspiracy involves Malaysia... We can't point fingers at our neighbours all the time! Can't wait for a war between 2 countries izzit? Do U know both countries will suffer if any conflicts will to happen.
As u say, its too early to say who is at fault, so leave it to the experts! Let me say, all human beings make mistakes! -
Do you know what is at both ends of a "Trip Wire"?Originally posted by tripwire:Frankly... its too early to say who is at fault...
even if you have so many people on watch...
Could it be that the container vessel suddenly change course??
lets say... if the RSN vessel was perhaps stationary at that spot... since its obviously guarding the island from you know who and since i doubt that there are any kuku mud-landers who would try to land on the island at such a time in view of the lack of visibility... thus no need to move about so much....
then along came this container vessel that couldnt see the PV because of its size , waves, watever lah... OR maybe it saw the PV but wanna sail pass the PV from the head rather then from the aft of the PV for safety reasons...
as the 2 vessels gets closer... the RSN PV might think that the container vessel wont hit the PV... or perhaps... it wont hit the PV at the current course and speed.... and pass the PV safely to the aft of the PV..
Suddenly... just minutes before the ships gets any closer... the captain of the ANL indonesia decided to change course to the right... and that probably brought the 2 ship into direct collision... in the view of the PV captain... shocked at the sudden change of course...
The RSN PV suddenly realise that the ANL has changed course and it now heading striaght for the PV... the captain of the PV quickly ordered the PV to full speed ahead to get out of the containers path...
BUT as the PV speeds up.. the container vessel continue to turn right as it tries to avoid the PV that is moving to its ahead right....and the ship gets closer and closer to each other...
finally... the 2 ship hit each other .... as both were unable to change course fast enough...
the above are mere speculations of mine.....
another potential conspiracy involves malaysia....
As we all know.. malaysia has been laying claim to the island.. it could be that they try to gain control of the sea around pedra branca by attempting to gain control over the navigational control of merchant ships around that area... by sending course and speed directions to ships around there...
Since RSN PVs might be too small to be detected by malaysian radar.... perhaps the PV was behind the lighthouse ....
The Malaysian authority ordered the ANL indonesia to change course right into the path of RSN PVs... either realising or NOT realising that there is a RSN PV at that heading... thus either INTENTIONALLY or UNINTENTIONALLY causing the accident.... -
wow. . .Originally posted by tripwire:Frankly... its too early to say who is at fault...
even if you have so many people on watch...
Could it be that the container vessel suddenly change course??
lets say... if the RSN vessel was perhaps stationary at that spot... since its obviously guarding the island from you know who and since i doubt that there are any kuku mud-landers who would try to land on the island at such a time in view of the lack of visibility... thus no need to move about so much....
then along came this container vessel that couldnt see the PV because of its size , waves, watever lah... OR maybe it saw the PV but wanna sail pass the PV from the head rather then from the aft of the PV for safety reasons...
as the 2 vessels gets closer... the RSN PV might think that the container vessel wont hit the PV... or perhaps... it wont hit the PV at the current course and speed.... and pass the PV safely to the aft of the PV..
Suddenly... just minutes before the ships gets any closer... the captain of the ANL indonesia decided to change course to the right... and that probably brought the 2 ship into direct collision... in the view of the PV captain... shocked at the sudden change of course...
The RSN PV suddenly realise that the ANL has changed course and it now heading striaght for the PV... the captain of the PV quickly ordered the PV to full speed ahead to get out of the containers path...
BUT as the PV speeds up.. the container vessel continue to turn right as it tries to avoid the PV that is moving to its ahead right....and the ship gets closer and closer to each other...
finally... the 2 ship hit each other .... as both were unable to change course fast enough...
the above are mere speculations of mine.....
another potential conspiracy involves malaysia....
As we all know.. malaysia has been laying claim to the island.. it could be that they try to gain control of the sea around pedra branca by attempting to gain control over the navigational control of merchant ships around that area... by sending course and speed directions to ships around there...
Since RSN PVs might be too small to be detected by malaysian radar.... perhaps the PV was behind the lighthouse ....
The Malaysian authority ordered the ANL indonesia to change course right into the path of RSN PVs... either realising or NOT realising that there is a RSN PV at that heading... thus either INTENTIONALLY or UNINTENTIONALLY causing the accident.... -
News update from CNA at 15:00hrs.
MINDEF has said that the body of Chinese woman found at Bintang Lagoon Resort, Indonesia.
Looks like the missing aft section of RSS Courageous has "opened up" like a sardine can, and the 3 missing Navy women may not be trapped in the missing section. -
there should be updates on CNA soon on the fate of the remaining three. go see for yourself. i'm going off now.
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There is already a pretty well established thread at
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=32118
go take a look and clear your doubts. -
wa lau... u really very ku-ku leh...Originally posted by bigballs11: According to my underground spy network, the navy ship is conducting a secret cloaking device experiment, apparantly the experiment went so well which made the ship disappear from the cargo ship radar screen, that, explain the excessive personnel and the accident 
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How can our APVs cannot out manuvoures a tanker? They are using state of the art Water Jet propulsion system which is highly manouvrable. So must be the people;s faultOriginally posted by tripwire:Frankly... its too early to say who is at fault...
even if you have so many people on watch...
Could it be that the container vessel suddenly change course??
lets say... if the RSN vessel was perhaps stationary at that spot... since its obviously guarding the island from you know who and since i doubt that there are any kuku mud-landers who would try to land on the island at such a time in view of the lack of visibility... thus no need to move about so much....
then along came this container vessel that couldnt see the PV because of its size , waves, watever lah... OR maybe it saw the PV but wanna sail pass the PV from the head rather then from the aft of the PV for safety reasons...
as the 2 vessels gets closer... the RSN PV might think that the container vessel wont hit the PV... or perhaps... it wont hit the PV at the current course and speed.... and pass the PV safely to the aft of the PV..
Suddenly... just minutes before the ships gets any closer... the captain of the ANL indonesia decided to change course to the right... and that probably brought the 2 ship into direct collision... in the view of the PV captain... shocked at the sudden change of course...
The RSN PV suddenly realise that the ANL has changed course and it now heading striaght for the PV... the captain of the PV quickly ordered the PV to full speed ahead to get out of the containers path...
BUT as the PV speeds up.. the container vessel continue to turn right as it tries to avoid the PV that is moving to its ahead right....and the ship gets closer and closer to each other...
finally... the 2 ship hit each other .... as both were unable to change course fast enough...
the above are mere speculations of mine.....
another potential conspiracy involves malaysia....
As we all know.. malaysia has been laying claim to the island.. it could be that they try to gain control of the sea around pedra branca by attempting to gain control over the navigational control of merchant ships around that area... by sending course and speed directions to ships around there...
Since RSN PVs might be too small to be detected by malaysian radar.... perhaps the PV was behind the lighthouse ....
The Malaysian authority ordered the ANL indonesia to change course right into the path of RSN PVs... either realising or NOT realising that there is a RSN PV at that heading... thus either INTENTIONALLY or UNINTENTIONALLY causing the accident....
I was from the Navy so I know how they work lah...Lucky I am already out the service...
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SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD.......... like what i've EXPECTED!!!!!!! ku ku onboard cost the live of 4!!!!!!!! sigh sigh sigh sigh........ i heard someone say... HUMAN ERROR just now.... HEY MAN.... U HIT THE BULL EYE!!!!!!!
i really cant belive it when i get to tok to some of ouy guyz yesterday.... KNN.....damn damn sad...
** report not out yet.... pls dont quote my words!!!!!!! i dont know what happen har!!!!!!!!
lets see what type of REPORT the CO gonna give and how our NAVY wanna reveal to the public......... i think they STEAY one... will tell eveythings in no time.... meanwhile... just stay tune ar....
ok lah... gonna koon liao... yesterday nite duty.... -
I wonder why this will happen, got so many watch man liao.. maybe all sleeping huh, somemore the ANL Indonesia so big, the RSS crew can't see? And are they parking in the sea or they are moving..
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I've never seen a boat or warship damaged to that extent before. At least not from a war shot.
To totally ram off the entire aft section, one conclusion can be drawn, nobody realised the collision course in time. At least the RSS Courageous did not see it coming at all, else given its light weight to power ratio, would have been able to move out of the way.
Question is, given current technology, isn't ship radar capable of detecting a ship so big like the ANL Indonesia coming at them? Considering the RSS Courageous is afterall, a warship. I suspect, the RSS Courageous was not "supposed" to be sitting where it was. And it probably did not turn on surface detection systems, maintaining EMCON (Emissions Control). The reason why ships are under EMCON is that they are not supposed to be there, and don't want ANYBODY to know that they are there. It would also explain why the 4 service women, some of them being electronics and communications specs were not on duty at that time.
I've heard stories of entire US CVGs and SURTASS forces operating under EMCON, disappear from one location, then appearing at another without being detected in transit. Like Ghosts on the the sea.
I remind everybody that this is my own conjecture, on what could have happened. It is not the truth, but a guess. And whether the RSS Courageous was really operating under EMCON, keeping a watchful eye on Pedra Branca, we do not know. But my guess is that, because they were sent there and not broadcasting any coordinates. And in an effort to be undetected by any foreign military intelligence gathering platforms, they were totally undetected by the ANL Indonesia, that was sailing right into them.
IF such tragedies can happen during peace time, I do not want to know what will happen in a war.
My admiration and salute, to the Guardians of our waters. -
That's what I say, more then eyes meet in this particular freak incident, the military as usual will deny anything, based on the usual excuse (human error) & I don't quite understand how such incident will happen on PV which won award, oops did I say too much
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Update on the EMCON Theory.
"The vessel's radar warning receiver is the NS 9010C, supplied by Elisra based in Bene Beraq, Israel. The NS 9010C radar warning receiver performs rapid detection and analysis of hostile radar transmissions and features instantaneous frequency measurement (IFM), instantaneous direction finding (IDF) and threat analysis. " Quote Naval Technology.com on the Fearless APV.
Even under EMCON, passive warning systems such as these would have been in operation. Which means the Courageous SHOULD have detected the ANL Indonesia's radar if it had one. However, given the nature of such ESM systems, the Courageous had to be moving in order to have a proper estimate of the Ship's location and range, depending on signal strength and bearing.
IF the Courageous was not moving, it would only have an increasing signal strength, and ONE line of bearing. Signal strength and ONE line of bearing would not have been able to provide sufficient estimate of the incoming vessel's range and speed. It would only provide a bearing and perhaps course.
How can a vessel as maneuverable as this been unable to detect, and avoid collision with a ship so big? Sure the ANL Indonesia was moving at a fairly high speed, 16 knts.
Again, the guess is, the RSS Courageous might have been ordered to hold her position, anchored or not.
Summary of theory, RSS Courageou under EMCON. MAY have detected ANL Indonesia with passive system, but no way to confirm her speed, range and course as she was sitting still.
Will continually update as soon as I get more information. -
[quote]Originally posted by Shotgun:
i've never seen a boat or warship damaged to that extent before. At least not from a war shot.
To totally ram off the entire aft section, one conclusion can be drawn, nobody realised the collision course in time. At least the RSS Courageous did not see it coming at all, else given its light weight to power ratio, would have been able to move out of the way.
1. for what i know, APV can even pick up a small contact as 'sampan' .... or those sea boat which being use by the force...(pls note... its made of RUBBER).... so... that cargo ship so BIG.... why cant they pick up???
2. ship will always onz their lighting.... unless... during ex and they go by 'darken ship' which mean that.... no light to be onz on main deck....
3. they will be MOVING!! while they are on duty.... they will move here and there!! and that type of speed they r going.... maybe 10-15 knots... however, if they wanna check on any contact... they will get speed up to maybe 20++ knots...
4. for that cargo ship... that type of speed... not fast lah.... normally only..... and most of the ships will travel up to that speed also....
thast all.... sea man... comments pls...[/b] -
Hey TripWire,
What happen to your SAF POWER this time? ..... bla..bla...bla
Another Malaysia involvement this time .... as what TripWire said before, PEOPLE DIE so what is the big deal. They die for their country, is their duty
Maybe the Merchant Ship comes with special force field eh!!! RSN cound not see it.... or maybe RSN dont have any detaction methods on board ...... words.
or just not capable of handling the situation
SAF The BEST? ..... if you say so TripWire
SAF are READY? .... if you say so TripWire
You want to be sencitive ... now is not the time.
Look at all this Indonesia & Malaysia bashing with majority of you in this forums.....
is not that great & strong after all ... just WORDS.
... what is coming next.