Democracy Index
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Originally posted by kramnave:
whose truth and whose reality ?
The Anti-PAP believes that if you're not anti-PAP, you are with PAP... That's why I rarely come here... everytime talk about PAP in SC will become a anti-PAP talk cock session...
Anyway, I come here because full democracy WILL lead to a failure because the general public don't know how to properly run a country and having "the people" in-charge will be disasterous...
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That ranking was published back in Jan 2007, which means the survey was conducted a couple of months earlier. So the data is already 2 years old !!!
Thailand went through a coup d'etat in Sep 2006 but amazingly Thai society felt a lot more of freedom of speech under the military regime than it did under Thaksin and the current Thaksin-backed governments. However, most western media fail to understand this because then tend to come to a convenient generalization that an elected government is more democratic than a military-backed regime.
I just want to see what the 2008 ranking will look like before I can tell whether the Economist's ranking is reliable.
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
The Anti-PAP believes that if you're not anti-PAP, you are with PAP... That's why I rarely come here... everytime talk about PAP in SC will become a anti-PAP talk cock session...
Anyway, I come here because full democracy WILL lead to a failure because the general public don't know how to properly run a country and having "the people" in-charge will be disasterous...
Maybe we should revert back to Monarchy or Communism?
The people don't know how to run country, that I agree, that's why we vote in politicians to "look after the citizen's interest", instead these same politicians look after they own self interest first.
Equating their pay to hypothetical salaries they would receive if they were at the top of their industry. If Warren Buffett becomes President of the United States. Does this mean the US citizens have to pay Warren Buffett or Bill Gates $1 billion a year?
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Anyway, I come here because full democracy WILL lead to a failure because the general public don't know how to properly run a country and having "the people" in-charge will be disasterous...
We are not talking about "full democracy" here. I don't think that is a possible thing in politics.
A mature society would (1) Make decission based on the country's interest, not themselves (don't stray into you anti-LKY talk here), (2) Have great forsight, don't make decission based on current whims (3) Be able to retain culture
Basically be able to make decissions without destroying he country...
So far, all I heard from Singaporeans are complaints of NS, complaints of GST, complaints, complaints and more complaints wihtout even thinking why the decission was made in the 1st place... Would you have this country runned with full democracy by these kind of people?
I have heard people wanting Singapore to legalise public demonstration... Have people forgotten about 1964 riots... Do people even think there is a possibility that a peaceful demonstration can lead to a riot... (Tibet) especially in Singapore, can such a small country afford such a riot... (1992 Los Angeles Citywide riot). Would you have this country in full democracy lead by people with fforesight like this...?
Everybody think like you, no wonder no fighting spirit in Singapore.
Sacre this scare that, dish out the tired PAP propaganda to me.
This type of propaganda cannot work anymore.
It is weakening.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Maybe we should revert back to Monarchy or Communism?
The people don't know how to run country, that I agree, that's why we vote in politicians to "look after the citizen's interest", instead these same politicians look after they own self interest first.
Equating their pay to hypothetical salaries they would receive if they were at the top of their industry. If Warren Buffett becomes President of the United States. Does this mean the US citizens have to pay Warren Buffett or Bill Gates $1 billion a year?
Many people here thinks that Singapore is a monarchy, maybe we should switch to being a communist country, since most here are communists by heart anyway.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
We are not talking about "full democracy" here.
Huh not full democracy then what ? the same form of "democracy" we have but just different leaders ?
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Many people here thinks that Singapore is a monarchy, maybe we should switch to being a communist country, since most here are communists by heart anyway.
I thought we were part monarchy and part communist.
One thing is for sure, we are not Democratic.
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Huh not full democracy then what ?
What is "full democracy"?
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
I thought we were part monarchy and part communist.One thing is for sure, we are not Democratic.
We still get to vote :). we are part monarchy and part democratic. We were never part communist.
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since most here are communists by heart anyway.
Who?
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We still get to vote :).
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Originally posted by kramnave:
We still get to vote :). we are part monarchy and part democratic. We were never part communist.
Vote?It's just procedural.
All the canvassing of votes are, vote buying just before elections, penetration of media (TV + Newspaper) with propaganda, restriction of rights of political candidates.
Why do you think they total control of the media?
It's easy to brainwash simple folks.
Democracy does not involve suppressing your opposition politicians or citizens with opposing views. This only happens in countries like China, North Korea and Myanmar.
Lots of academics in the world do not think that Singapore is a democracy, only the foolish ones in Singapore think that we are democratic.
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democracy is good thing, but seems everyone is overestimating it, it cannot cure disease.In democratic world still got people suffering,
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
What is "full democracy"?
I don't know, thats why I'm asking. If "full democracy" is not possible, then only partial democracy is..which is what we already are. So if everyone has their own version of what kind of democracy they like and they want. then whose democracy do we want ? In short, the democracy that we have is acceptable.
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Why do you think they total control of the media?
Also to deny opposition from spreading their propaganda and criticising PAP regime.
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democracy is good thing, but seems everyone is overestimating it,
But Singapore is a depoliticised and authoritarian society, that is why we talk about democracy.
Because there is none here.
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Originally posted by kramnave:
I don't know, thats why I'm asking. If "full democracy" is not possible, then only partial democracy is..which is what we already are. So if everyone has their own version of what kind of democracy they like and they want. then whose democracy do we want ? In short, the democracy that we have is acceptable.
maybe you are happy now, employed ,good money, people who critisize the democratic situation, most not happy, everything seems not good enough.partical democracy is tricky, particial to what extent, maybe some of you are satisfied, but would the majority happy, -
In short, the democracy that we have is acceptable.
To you maybe.
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
The Anti-PAP believes that if you're not anti-PAP, you are with PAP... That's why I rarely come here... everytime talk about PAP in SC will become a anti-PAP talk cock session...
Anyway, I come here because full democracy WILL lead to a failure because the general public don't know how to properly run a country and having "the people" in-charge will be disasterous...
I thought the same thing too. There are people here who would twist and turn the facts to just blast PAP. Perhaps they really hate PAP or perhaps they blast because it make them feel accepted in SC by the more senior blasters. True that there are many areas PAP can improve but blasting, is totally unconstructive.Another thing the Senior Blasters here use is they get personal. After saying their piece, they'll say something about the you being stupid, brainwashed or the like. This does not consitute to a constructive discussion, only flaming.
"Democracy is a hip word always used by opportunists when they're dun have a seat (in parliament) , after that, how warm their seat gets depends on how they make everything look democratic."
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
But Singapore is a depoliticised and authoritarian society, that is why we talk about democracy.
Because there is none here.
so if you can participate in the parliment, what suggestion would propose? -
Originally posted by rokkie:
democracy is good thing, but seems everyone is overestimating it, it cannot cure disease.In democratic world still got people suffering,
True enough, democracy in an undeveloped country might not be sustained.But in an already developed country, it's something to strife for and not end up laggards in the political world.
Having the powers concentrated within a particular family is not healthy for the citizens.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Vote?It's just procedural.
All the canvassing of votes are, vote buying just before elections, penetration of media (TV + Newspaper) with propaganda, restriction of rights of political candidates.
Why do you think they total control of the media?
It's easy to brainwash simple folks.
Democracy does not involve suppressing your opposition politicians or citizens with opposing views. This only happens in countries like China, North Korea and Myanmar.
Lots of academics in the world do not think that Singapore is a democracy, only the foolish ones in Singapore think that we are democratic.
Yeah but you still get to vote, even if you are an idiot/simple folk who gets brainwashed by PAP/SDP/WP.
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so if you can participate in the parliment, what suggestion would propose?
Free up media.
Education reform.
Election reform.
Relax political suppression.
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Yeah but you still get to vote, even if you are an idiot/simple folk who gets brainwashed by PAP/SDP/WP.
A democratic society is more than just vote.
You don't value democratic society so much, so it is of less value to you.
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Yeah but you still get to vote, even if you are an idiot/simple folk who gets brainwashed by PAP/SDP/WP.
But isn't this form of democracy you claim distorted in favour of those in power.Media is a powerful tool, if messages are repeated long enough, it becomes a fact.
What they have done is curtailed the use of media in politics by setting up barriers, to allow free entry, alot like economics.
If free entry is not allowed, free competition will not happen, as it's always the case with a monopoly industry.
Competition is always good for the consumer and citizens, because it brings out cheaper and better quality goods and services.