Originally posted by maurizio13:
Frankly, I don't read Gopalan's post too much, only read his recent encounter with the authorities.
Read his latest one. Think he forgot that he said that he was in their jurisdiction now and challenged them to get him, providing his address to boot.
Adain, I am 100% against large scale public protest in small Singapore...
The organisers of protest can exercise discipline.
Singapore all kiasu kiasee, shouldn't be too hard.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:The organisers of protest can exercise discipline.
Singapore all kiasu kiasee, shouldn't be too hard.
Excercising dicipline will ensure 100% riot won't happen in Singapore? Ok, maybe I'll accept a public protest but must be monitered by SOC and SAF at all times...
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Singapore all kiasu kiasee, shouldn't be too hard.
Don't any how say Singaporean Kiasu Kiasee... Refer back to my story... More police were deployed to Fullerton Hotel but they heck care...
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:SDP has some ideas on that:
Erm, what has their manifesto got to do with how to come about deciding whose's version of democracy is correct or whose's version of democracy we want ?
Originally posted by MohamedF:Excercising dicipline will ensure 100% riot won't happen in Singapore? Ok, maybe I'll accept a public protest but must be monitered by SOC and SAF at all times...
Isn't that similar to police states like North Korea and Myanmar?
Originally posted by kramnave:Read his latest one. Think he forgot that he said that he was in their jurisdiction now and challenged them to get him, providing his address to boot.
So challenging authority is rubbish?
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Isn't that similar to police states like North Korea and Myanmar?
Maybe people do want a police state ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvqiElZI43k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNmm_oBYgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Vlk6wnLfs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EEBds78PkU&feature=related
More clips of the 1992 riot... I think the reason why people still think a riot is no big deal is because you have not experienced it before... always thinking that it happened in other countries and it can never happen in Singapore...
Imagine those clips above happening, not in the TV screens, but outside your window... on the streets... On orchard rd, Jurong Point, City Hall etc... Would you risk that happening over a protest...?
Originally posted by kramnave:Erm, what has their manifesto got to do with how to come about deciding whose's version of democracy is correct or whose's version of democracy we want ?
There are lots of forms of democracy, but in the international context, Singapore's version is definitely not a democracy. Singapore is considered a Hybrid Regime, if it makes you feel any better, in Hybrid Regime we are ranked 2nd after Albania.
http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/Democracy_Index_2007_v3.pdf
Originally posted by maurizio13:
So challenging authority is rubbish?
No. Challenging authority is not rubbish.
Even not admitting that he "was asking to be punished" is not rubbish.
Even not admitting that he "was asking to be punished" and then claim that he was here to witness the case and had merely wrote something critical in his blog is not rubbish.
I was just asking you to check it out.
Originally posted by kramnave:Maybe people do want a police state ?
Maybe they do or maybe they were brainwashed into that kind of thinking.
I think the older folks are more susceptible to brainwashing, but as their number dwindle in the future, so will the votes of the P4P (as can be seen in the recent election). Only time will tell.
That's why these days the MPs are so enthusiastic to engage the younger generation by learning hip hop and other young people activity.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
There are lots of forms of democracy, but in the international context, Singapore's version is definitely not a democracy. Singapore is considered a Hybrid Regime, if it makes you feel any better, in Hybrid Regime we are ranked 2nd after Albania.
http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/Democracy_Index_2007_v3.pdf
Yeah I know that, BIG QUESTION IS EVEN IF WE WANT DEMOCRACY, WHOSE DEMOCRACY ?
Originally posted by kramnave:No. Challenging authority is not rubbish.
Even not admitting that he "was asking to be punished" is not rubbish.
Even not admitting that he "was asking to be punished" and then claim that he was here to witness the case and had merely wrote something critical in his blog is not rubbish.
I was just asking you to check it out.
I can't be interested in reading P4P propaganda.
What makes you think I would be interested in reading copious blogs of Gopalan Propaganda?
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Maybe they do or maybe they were brainwashed into that kind of thinking.
I think the older folks are more susceptible to brainwashing, but as their number dwindle in the future, so will the votes of the P4P (as can be seen in the recent election). Only time will tell.
That's why these days the MPs are so enthusiastic to engage the younger generation by learning hip hop and other young people activity.
What if it is not that they are easily brainwashed but it is because they seen more things and prefer the PAP kind of governance ? We did not go through what they did and therefore might beg to differ and want change. Give them some credit, rather than dismiss them as being easily brainwashed.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
I can't be interested in reading P4P propaganda.
What makes you think I would be interested in reading copious blogs of Gopalan Propaganda?
I don't know. Just a suggestion, I tend to fall asleep easily when i read books of a technical nature...thus more often than not i like to read rubbish..thats why im here anyway.
Originally posted by kramnave:Yeah I know that, BIG QUESTION IS EVEN IF WE WANT DEMOCRACY, WHOSE DEMOCRACY ?
Any Democracy is much better than Singapore's Hybrid Regime.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Any Democracy is much better than Singapore's Hybrid Regime.
Because the general population think it's better or because you think it's better or because the books say it's better ?
Originally posted by kramnave:What if it is not that they are easily brainwashed but it is because they seen more things and prefer the PAP kind of governance ? We did not go through what they did and therefore might beg to differ and want change. Give them some credit, rather than dismiss them as being easily brainwashed.
Could be too. Either they were brainwashed or they chose P4P.
P4P's governance is taking alot and giving little back, therefore the retiring folks find it hard to make ends meet in their old age, they need to work.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Could be too. Either they were brainwashed or they chose P4P.P4P's governance is taking alot and giving little back, therefore the retiring folks find it hard to make ends meet in their old age, they need to work.
The money has to come from somewhere, question is where. Ideally the old should receive welfare, the young/immigrants should be taxed heavily for that. Companies should be made to pay more in remuneration to offset a lil of that.
Originally posted by kramnave:Because the general population think it's better or because you think it's better or because the books say it's better ?
Not from the populace, neither is it from the books, it's just common sense.
Logically any form of governance by the people for the people is many times better than one where a family of rulers govern all the people.
The people all have different objectives, it's through common consensus that decisions are reached so that the decision will not ruled in favour of a particular class.
In a situation where a family of rulers dominate the government, the decisions reached might not be for the people, the ruler could have selfish interest. In such a situation, we have no countervailing force to curtail the power of this selfish individual, such is the case in Myanmar (Burma) and North Korea.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Not from the populace, neither is it from the books, it's just common sense.
Logically any form of governance by the people for the people is many times better than one where a family of rulers govern all the people.
The people all have different objectives, it's through common consensus that decisions are reached so that the decision will not ruled in favour of a particular class.
In a situation where a family of rulers dominate the government, the decisions reached might not be for the people, the ruler could have selfish interest. In such a situation, we have no countervailing force to curtail the power of this selfish individual, such is the case in Myanmar (Burma) and North Korea.
We can't have referendums all the time, thus the most logical step is to vote for a government to act on our behalf, whether or not that destabilizes the whole country as a worst case scenario every 4 years or so is another issue as we chose it etc. The only gripe now is that many belief that the voting system in Singapore is unfair and the result may not be a true reflection of what would be the actual outcome should we have a free press and without GRCs etc...
The gist of it all is that many believe is that the system is unfair.
Originally posted by MohamedF:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvqiElZI43k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNmm_oBYgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Vlk6wnLfs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EEBds78PkU&feature=related
More clips of the 1992 riot... I think the reason why people still think a riot is no big deal is because you have not experienced it before... always thinking that it happened in other countries and it can never happen in Singapore...
Imagine those clips above happening, not in the TV screens, but outside your window... on the streets... On orchard rd, Jurong Point, City Hall etc... Would you risk that happening over a protest...?
If there's equality and justice in place, I don't think riots of such nature will take place. You 'worry' too much. There may not even be a need for a peaceful demonstration in the first place.
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Having credible people with good education and independent thinking is good, tis what a Democracy should promote.But most of the time in a fake democracy we see close relatives of the ruling elite being put in positions to strengthen their position.
so democracy is not about talking, we must do sth, at least to fulfill democracy in the future, we must educate ppl.So that we are retional, critical thinking, then we would probably choose right out of wrong, that's the premise of democracy, i cannot imagine when there majority of ppl, are fool, and democracy represent majority, who wrong will it be.
Originally posted by kramnave:The money has to come from somewhere, question is where. Ideally the old should receive welfare, the young/immigrants should be taxed heavily for that. Companies should be made to pay more in remuneration to offset a lil of that.
If I'm paid millions by the tax payers, I don't need welfare. I can fly to Switzerland to have regular blood transfusion to keep my body in tip-top condition even into my 80s.