Mah: cut petrol taxes not way to cushion rising oil prices
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Originally posted by Gutentaginator:
Hey Singaporeans!
No subsidy of any sort.
Wow, so firm with this policy.
Many countries give subsidies to help their citizens.
Given that the people appears to accept this policy, I take it that you people accept the policy and this should mean that you guys supports it and the leader's vision.
I am amazed how 'successful' this system is.
Cheers to you!
Well, the PAP rules with iron fists, so this way is encouraging more timid, kiasu kiasi Singaporeans. People are not even thinking of subsidy to cope with the rise of petrol prices just expecting they be kind to help ease the load during difficult time by reducing the taxes on petrol that is all. But the shorty mow boh tan said no, cold blooded pap never will do anything to affect their profit making even if it means to earn $ at the expense of the people who feed them.
Subsidy like other countries, no no, pm lee hsien loon made it so clear that he is not making Singapore a welfare state. In Singapore, don't expect subsidy, but expect the gahmen to do all sorts of things to earn money out of the nation, and this could possibly be the reasons why PAP loves to run Singapore, make lots and lots of $$ out of the people of Singapore. Greed knows no end to PAP.
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PAP - the number 1 blood-sucking government in the world. Amazing thing is pple still vote for them year after year.
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Originally posted by FirePig:
PAP - the number 1 blood-sucking government in the world. Amazing thing is pple still vote for them year after year.
Of course, there are people voting for them. Just read the posts by a few here, you will know they are voters for Pay and Pay. Please do your part to educate people and show them the ways of PAP to make them think what sort of gahmen they want. -
Originally posted by Spartans:
Petrol taxes are different from subsidies.
With such sky rocketing petrol price, motorists will definitely readjust their driving habits. Then what are the uses for petrol taxes? As a mean of revenue for the government?
And we are not even talking about subsidies!
Hanor.
Taxes and subsidies are 2 different matters.
Yet they are lumped together by the media as though they are the same thing.
Haiz.
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But what to do? Suck thumb and wait for next election.
Singaporeans are dumb, they reject and disrespect people fighting for their own rights, Singaporeans don't even care about their own rights.
Before India's independence, many thought Gandhi was a asswipe, what about now? He's being idolised on books as a great leader.
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Originally posted by FirePig:
PAP - the number 1 blood-sucking government in the world. Amazing thing is pple still vote for them year after year.
Note that this is also the same government that says "We will feed the people 2 meals a day and make them work for the 3rd meal"
Then go ahead to approve their fat paychecks.
I've grown up always been told that politics is the best way to get rich, now I know why. When everyone else is more concerned about the number of zeros in their account rather than the pressing issues at hand, excluding approving another raise.
It's would be a good idea if everyone watched "One Nation under Lee" not that I'm promoting it, but it provides a different perspective especially about "Sense of Proportion".
Sometimes I really wonder how these ministers sleep at night, knowing that somewhere in Singapore, a 80 year old granny is picking up cardboards and cans, scrimaging every possible item to make a slight profit of $2?
I understand the consequences of a welfare state but this is ridiculous, is approving another $100 much more difficult than a ridiculously out of the blues not very smart pay raise?
They are lucky most Singaporeans are Kiasu Kiasi and don't really care about their own nation as long as they have a roof above their head.
I've been fed many rubbish while growing up, attracting foreign talents? sharing fruits of labour? forward looking? transparency?
Tell me that's not rubbish.
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My dad was reading the newspaper and then suddenly he uttered, "Mah Pow Tan, go and die!"
LOL was so funny to me.
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Originally posted by FirePig:
My dad was reading the newspaper and then suddenly he uttered, "Mah Pow Tan, go and die!"
LOL was so funny to me.
That bad ah?
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Is singapore petrol and diesel price still the cheapest among non-oil producing developed nation?
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One word, take public transport.
That is what the garmen trying to say.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Fact 1. Singapore do not have fossilized fuels or own any.Fact 2. Singapore is only one of the major refining centres in the world.
Clever boy, first score on accuracy.
Fact 3. Singapore still have to import oil for domestic consumption.
What happened to accuracy after only two Facts presented ?
If Singapore is the only one of the major refining centres in the world, should we be importing refined oil from other sources for domestic consumption ?
Or has it not been the fact that the Government and the Oil Companies are in cahoots in raping the pockets of consumers by fixxing prices ?
With Singapore being one of the major refining centers in the World, is there no benefits in the Economies of Scale available to the market closest to this Center ?
Even if the oil is subjected to Global Price strictures - no one is asking for special price of the raw crude oil, but surely the retail price of refined oil is within our control.
Fact 4. Every major nation on Earth is currently cutting back on fossilized fuel, to conserve depleting supplies of easy surface oil as well as harm to our environment.
Clever point made with available information and posted with factual accuracy.
Fact 5. Oil is a revenue for govts to use such revenues for social spending. They export oil at a premium price to other nations. Such premiums on oil if sold without it to citizens, the premiums will become subsidies for them. Oil exporting countries now have to remove such subsidies, for they need the money for social spending as well as to curb oil consumption.
What social spending has this Singapore Government made - when every cent spent is recovered as revenues from the fees charged for its use, and the total amount collected will probably be twice the amount spent.
Oil is exported by Oil Companies - is it exported by the Singapore Government ?
What are the 'Premiums' you are referring to - or are you simply beating about the bush hoping some straws will fly off the bush for you to catch ?
How are the "premiums" become subsidies from Oil Companies ?
How do you relate the "premiums" to become Government revenues for social spending ?
The fact is the Singapore Government do not export oil.
Oil is exported by the Oil Companies at prices determined by the global mechanism, with the Singapore Government imposing annual corporate tax on the annual profits of the Oil Companies.
Fact 6. Singapore do not have enough land for more roads. Less roads equates to more congestion. Petrol tax is one way to curb more cars on the road, ensure citizens use the roads more efficiently. And petrol tax is also one way for our society to have more funds for social spending. Petrol tax is based on free will. You pay only what you need. If you don't need, you don't pay.
Hongkong's area of 1,104 sq km is not much bigger than Singapore's 707 sq km - with almost 25% of Hongkong territory being uninhabitable mountain.
Hongkong has a population of 6.93 million {2007 census}, while Singapore has only 4.589 million {2007 census}.
Yet Hongkong has far more efficient traffic and road managment plans in placed that are financially less punitive on the residents there compared to Singapore.
It is sheer nonsense that Singapore do not have enough land, when one can see large tracts of land that the Government has repossessed from the Private Ownership, and waiting for "appropriate" market prices before the URA release the land for development - {adding fuel to the hot property market}.
It is disingeniously misleading to claim that Petrol Tax only affects car owners, as non-car owners are similarly affected when the commercial sector will pass on the cost of their business to all consumers - regardless of car-ownership.
Only a die-hard carpet beggar of the MIW will insist that social spending is a benefit from high petrol tax - without admitting that the bulk of the government surplus will end up with GIC and Temasek for their wild export adventures.
Fact 7. Domestic use of oil and other fossilized fuels for energy use, similarly has a tarrif which is a govt tax imposed. Again it is best on free will. You must use it efficently or if the demand is allowed to spiral, we will face with high energy costs due to depleting sources.
What kind of domestic use of oil and other fossilized fuels are you vaguely referring to in which you have cleverly classified that it is based on ''free will" ?
If you are referring to electricity that is powered by oil - do you think that it is not logical that the Government should provide higher incentives for alternative energy sources to be installed ?
If you are referring to home cooking - is there any alternative other then LPG that itself is a by-product from the gas field, and which the reserves are far larger than oil.
Fact 8. Not everyone owns a car in Singapore. You own a car, then you would have to compensate those who owns singapore - our citizens - too. Those taking public transports, pays add on charges by transport companies. However, in line with our society's policy to maximise efficiently on energy use, these transport companies cannot arbitarily raise prices, and must meet with approval from MOT and debated in Parliament, not easily obtained as proven the difficulties over the years.
Only a propagandist will promote this line that fare increases demanded by transport companies are not easy to come by.
Have you counted the number of fare price adjustments since Election 2006 ?
Even the ERP charges have seen its rates climbing, as well as the number of gantries increased to cover more entry-exit points, as well as major traffic routes throughout the island.
Yet, when ERP was introduced - Minister Mah Bow Tan had stated that when ERP is fully implemented the 250% Road Tax increases since 1976, will be brought down.
As matters stand, the Minister was indulging in half-truths, and lies - as the Road Tax had seen less then 50% adjustment since the ERP had mushroomed across the island, with some at the entrance of a Heartland Township.
No one likes the current impasse, but the funds collected from tax revenues are being channeled to look for alternative energy resources, and not just anyone, but those that are credible ones so that our money may effectively be use.
Before anyone acts emotionally , do consider logic please.
Is it now an impasse ?
Are you claiming you have inside knowledge that this Government will be intransigent in not responding to the hardship of the larger population of non-car owners, as well as the car-owners ?
Could there be sufficient funds left if you claim that the same tax revenues are used for your supposed social spending, and now also to search for alternative energy resources ?
Are you suggesting that the Singapore Government is embarking on some pioneering works - via the GLCs - to search for alternative energy resources ?
Are the existing resources in Singapore capable to handle such a search, or are we throwing monies into foreign companies to latch on to their expertise, without any certainty of any outcome ?
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Only by facing up to facts and not complains, or lies and halftruths can credible solutions be found.
It is only simple economics. The rise in price of oil is largely due by demand. The more people use oil, the higher it will rise. Only by curbing its demand, will oil price falls.
Clever understanding of a boy-boy in simple market-forces of "demand-and-supply" - you must have paid careful attention when following aunty to the market ?
There is a crucial need to seek alternative energy uses. Fortunately, Singapore has the funds to do so, except that such technologies are not avaliable yet. However, in the case of energy for cars, conversion to CNG is a viable option.
Did you not post in your last response - at the bottom of Page 1 of this thread - that
"the funds collected from tax revenues are being channeled to look for alternative energy resources, and not just anyone, but those that are credible ones so that our money may effectively be use"
Is there some dis-connect in the present and past statements made in less then a few clicks on the same page of a common thread ?
Our country survived today and not crippled was due to the hard work and frugal ways of our previous generation and govt. The govt can easily play populist measures and even lower petrol taxes and everything else.
But then, our next generations will be the ones who will suffer with even higher prices of depleting resources. Our society had always, always thought far and never to neglect or mortgage the next generation's future, and we are not about to do so. Thus the need for funds to find alternative energy resources, quickly. And for that, we need more intelligent people properly compensated to do research and find solutions.
Bravo - a Grand Standing Performance with some plagiarised statements of a wide vista of the problems faced by the generations to come.
Can there be another generation, when the present one refused to increase the population replacement ratio given the existing difficulties faced to survive on a day to day basis ?
Are you certain that the present generation cannot do anything more then what the previous generation - given that we have made so much progress since the 1950s - and can only wait until fruits from the search of alternative energy is made commercially available to us ?
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Originally posted by Agenda:
But what to do? Suck thumb and wait for next election.
Singaporeans are dumb, they reject and disrespect people fighting for their own rights, Singaporeans don't even care about their own rights.
Before India's independence, many thought Gandhi was a asswipe, what about now? He's being idolised on books as a great leader.
Singaporeans are kiasu kiasi due to the iron fist style of running the country by the pay and pay gang. Thus they are fearful of them.
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Originally posted by Agenda:
Note that this is also the same government that says "We will feed the people 2 meals a day and make them work for the 3rd meal"
Then go ahead to approve their fat paychecks.
I've grown up always been told that politics is the best way to get rich, now I know why. When everyone else is more concerned about the number of zeros in their account rather than the pressing issues at hand, excluding approving another raise.
It's would be a good idea if everyone watched "One Nation under Lee" not that I'm promoting it, but it provides a different perspective especially about "Sense of Proportion".
Sometimes I really wonder how these ministers sleep at night, knowing that somewhere in Singapore, a 80 year old granny is picking up cardboards and cans, scrimaging every possible item to make a slight profit of $2?
I understand the consequences of a welfare state but this is ridiculous, is approving another $100 much more difficult than a ridiculously out of the blues not very smart pay raise?
They are lucky most Singaporeans are Kiasu Kiasi and don't really care about their own nation as long as they have a roof above their head.
I've been fed many rubbish while growing up, attracting foreign talents? sharing fruits of labour? forward looking? transparency?
Tell me that's not rubbish.
Agenda, they don't have conscience that is why they are who they are and are getting worst. They are in politics to suck our money, it is lucrative business to be in Singapore politics as most singaporeans are so easily tamed and will just give in to the gahmen's nuisance.
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Originally posted by Civilgoh:
Singaporeans are kiasu kiasi due to the iron fist style of running the country by the pay and pay gang. Thus they are fearful of them.
spreading fear again
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Originally posted by kramnave:
spreading fear again
Personal bias perception is not equivalent to facts and reality. It is either for it or against it but this person who talks about spreading fear is obviously neither here nor there many times when he talks about local politics and he could be a pap undercover in disguise.Do I need to be bothered by you, my answer is no.
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Mah said oil tax cut sends wrong signal, so I would take it that the PAP is sending wrong signal by paying themselves obscene excessive high million million dollar salary. Some consider PAP paying themselves obscene high world class salary is a new form of corruption.
PAP should lead by examples then they will earn the respect from the people of Singapore.
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Originally posted by Civilgoh:
Personal bias perception is not equivalent to facts and reality. It is either for it or against it but this person who talks about spreading fear is obviously neither here nor there many times when he talks about local politics and he could be a pap undercover in disguise.Do I need to be bothered by you, my answer is no.
You've underestimated me, I'm more than an undercover agent. I'm a secretly appointed assassin. My job is to hunt down dissidents and annihilate their entire families, even their pets. Spread this to your friends, make them more fearful
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Oh yes, I am indeed very fearful very scared, juvenile, what a joke! YOu are nothing but a troll here. Juvenile go back to your playground. -
Originally posted by Civilgoh:
Oh yes, I am indeed very fearful very scared, juvenile, what a joke! YOu are nothing but a troll here. Juvenile go back to your playground.This is my playground and I'm playing with you.
1) If I'm a troll you are not supposed to respond to me. General rule: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS !!
2) You are not supposed to be bothered with me for "Do I need to be bothered by you, my answer is no."
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Let the troll rots on his own. ha ha ha.
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How do we achieve real democracy:
1) All whose views differs shall be labeled as PAP dogs/undercovers.
2) They shall be asked to go back to their playgrounds and leave the adults to discuss important issues here (even though I don't know if topics here will eventually bear any fruit when others are fighting outside).
3)Only anti-PAP views are the truth and reality.
THATS TRUE DEMOCRACY, THE DEMOCRACY THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR.
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Mah needs to know the diff between tax and subsidy. Petrol tax is not subsidy to the consumers.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Clever boy, first score on accuracy.
What happened to accuracy after only two Facts presented ?
If Singapore is the only one of the major refining centres in the world, should we be importing refined oil from other sources for domestic consumption ?
Or has it not been the fact that the Government and the Oil Companies are in cahoots in raping the pockets of consumers by fixxing prices ?
With Singapore being one of the major refining centers in the World, is there no benefits in the Economies of Scale available to the market closest to this Center ?
Even if the oil is subjected to Global Price strictures - no one is asking for special price of the raw crude oil, but surely the retail price of refined oil is within our control.
Clever point made with available information and posted with factual accuracy.
What social spending has this Singapore Government made - when every cent spent is recovered as revenues from the fees charged for its use, and the total amount collected will probably be twice the amount spent.
Oil is exported by Oil Companies - is it exported by the Singapore Government ?
What are the 'Premiums' you are referring to - or are you simply beating about the bush hoping some straws will fly off the bush for you to catch ?
How are the "premiums" become subsidies from Oil Companies ?
How do you relate the "premiums" to become Government revenues for social spending ?
The fact is the Singapore Government do not export oil.
Oil is exported by the Oil Companies at prices determined by the global mechanism, with the Singapore Government imposing annual corporate tax on the annual profits of the Oil Companies.
Hongkong's area of 1,104 sq km is not much bigger than Singapore's 707 sq km - with almost 25% of Hongkong territory being uninhabitable mountain.
Hongkong has a population of 6.93 million {2007 census}, while Singapore has only 4.589 million {2007 census}.
Yet Hongkong has far more efficient traffic and road managment plans in placed that are financially less punitive on the residents there compared to Singapore.
It is sheer nonsense that Singapore do not have enough land, when one can see large tracts of land that the Government has repossessed from the Private Ownership, and waiting for "appropriate" market prices before the URA release the land for development - {adding fuel to the hot property market}.
It is disingeniously misleading to claim that Petrol Tax only affects car owners, as non-car owners are similarly affected when the commercial sector will pass on the cost of their business to all consumers - regardless of car-ownership.
Only a die-hard carpet beggar of the MIW will insist that social spending is a benefit from high petrol tax - without admitting that the bulk of the government surplus will end up with GIC and Temasek for their wild export adventures.
What kind of domestic use of oil and other fossilized fuels are you vaguely referring to in which you have cleverly classified that it is based on ''free will" ?
If you are referring to electricity that is powered by oil - do you think that it is not logical that the Government should provide higher incentives for alternative energy sources to be installed ?
If you are referring to home cooking - is there any alternative other then LPG that itself is a by-product from the gas field, and which the reserves are far larger than oil.
Only a propagandist will promote this line that fare increases demanded by transport companies are not easy to come by.
Have you counted the number of fare price adjustments since Election 2006 ?
Even the ERP charges have seen its rates climbing, as well as the number of gantries increased to cover more entry-exit points, as well as major traffic routes throughout the island.
Yet, when ERP was introduced - Minister Mah Bow Tan had stated that when ERP is fully implemented the 250% Road Tax increases since 1976, will be brought down.
As matters stand, the Minister was indulging in half-truths, and lies - as the Road Tax had seen less then 50% adjustment since the ERP had mushroomed across the island, with some at the entrance of a Heartland Township.
Is it now an impasse ?
Are you claiming you have inside knowledge that this Government will be intransigent in not responding to the hardship of the larger population of non-car owners, as well as the car-owners ?
Could there be sufficient funds left if you claim that the same tax revenues are used for your supposed social spending, and now also to search for alternative energy resources ?
Are you suggesting that the Singapore Government is embarking on some pioneering works - via the GLCs - to search for alternative energy resources ?
Are the existing resources in Singapore capable to handle such a search, or are we throwing monies into foreign companies to latch on to their expertise, without any certainty of any outcome ?
Clever boy, first score on accuracy.What happened to accuracy after only two Facts presented ?
Fact 1: You agreed to this point. Good girl. Expected, afterall, who to expect from a know-rubbish only girl who lives in a rubbish bin?
Fact 2:You agreed to this point. Good girl. Expected, afterall, who to expect from a know-rubbish only girl who lives in a rubbish bin?
Clever point made with available information and posted with factual accuracy.
What social spending has this Singapore Government made - when every cent spent is recovered as revenues from the fees charged for its use, and the total amount collected will probably be twice the amount spent.
Social spending - You are blind if you don't see social spending, but then you live in the rubbish bin. Can't be helped, i supposed.
Oil is exported by Oil Companies - is it exported by the Singapore Government ?
What are the 'Premiums' you are referring to - or are you simply beating about the bush hoping some straws will fly off the bush for you to catch ?
How are the "premiums" become subsidies from Oil Companies ?
How do you relate the "premiums" to become Government revenues for social spending ?
The fact is the Singapore Government do not export oil.
Oil is exported by the Oil Companies at prices determined by the global mechanism, with the Singapore Government imposing annual corporate tax on the annual profits of the Oil Companies.
Oil is a commodity that is nationalized by most countries. Their own companies are state owned. Those private companies that existed before nationalization have to pay hefty royalties to continue their operations in those countries. I can write out the entire pricing and tax mechanisims, but that would be allowing you to laze. Go to the library and find your answers how the premiums are derived at, but do have a shower first, for you stink, espacially comming from a rubbish bin.
To make it simple and cast off your smokes that tried cloud the issue, premiums are the over and above costs of oil that a country can get from exports, on the litre. Taking msia our neighbour as a comparison and easier understand, the scrapping of the subsidies are the 'premiums' they would have earn if they had exported the oil.
But then, Atobe, i expect you don't understand. Just don't try to act smart and cloud the issue, for only your stupidity shows clearly
Hongkong's area of 1,104 sq km is not much bigger than Singapore's 707 sq km ...... ........compared to Singapore.
I don't even want to rebut on this. You are more stupid than i can ever describe you. Go speak to Thomas Chow,Deputy Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works, SAR if he believes their road is better managed.
It is sheer nonsense that Singapore do not have enough land, .....for "appropriate" market prices before the URA release the land for development - {adding fuel to the hot property market}.
That's nonsense to you, who live in a rubbish bin, but a reality for many, who faces high land costs and traffic congestion.
It is disingeniously misleading to claim that Petrol Tax only affects car owners, as non-car owners are similarly affected when the commercial sector will pass on the cost of their business to all consumers - regardless of car-ownership.
Tell me where i misled, when i already said transport passengers will bear add-on costs? Your attempts to smear is pathetic.
Only a die-hard carpet beggar of the MIW will insist that social spending ......................energy sources to be installed ?
No, i never use carpet, so it is irrelevant to me. However, that is your belief, and as usual flawed for you live in a rubbish bin and blind to all that had happened or is happening in the alternative energy source search.
Only a propagandist will promote this line that fare increases demanded by transport companies are not easy to come by.
Have you counted the number of fare price adjustments since Election 2006 ?
And the result? Remember we do have opposition parties in the parliament as well. And thankfully, not many public transport providers had to fold, otherwise, many may have to walk to work. But not a consequence to you, after all, you live only in a rubbish bin.
Is it now an impasse ?
Are you claiming ............into foreign companies to latch on to their expertise, without any certainty of any outcome ?
Questions, questions. I have no wish to infer or assume. You better state your stand if you want me to respond, otherwise, just crawl back to your bin.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Clever understanding of a boy-boy in simple market-forces of "demand-and-supply" - you must have paid careful attention when following aunty to the market ?
Did you not post in your last response - at the bottom of Page 1 of this thread - that
"the funds collected from tax revenues are being channeled to look for alternative energy resources, and not just anyone, but those that are credible ones so that our money may effectively be use"
Is there some dis-connect in the present and past statements made in less then a few clicks on the same page of a common thread ?
Bravo - a Grand Standing Performance with some plagiarised statements of a wide vista of the problems faced by the generations to come.
Can there be another generation, when the present one refused to increase the population replacement ratio given the existing difficulties faced to survive on a day to day basis ?
Are you certain that the present generation cannot do anything more then what the previous generation - given that we have made so much progress since the 1950s - and can only wait until fruits from the search of alternative energy is made commercially available to us ?
be another generation, when the present one refused to increase the population replacement ratio given the existing difficulties faced to survive on a day to day basis ?
Your view again. but from the rubbish bin.
Are you certain that the present generation cannot do anything more then what the previous generation - given that we have made so much progress since the 1950s - and can only wait until fruits from the search of alternative energy is made commercially available to us ?
Of course we can, but it would not be enough if we continue to harp on demand for subsidies or tax cuts on petrol which pushes demand and price up for oil.
Clever understanding of a boy-boy in simple market-forces of "demand-and-supply" - you must have paid careful attention when following aunty to the market ?Nope. And you are not my Aunty. I would rather have a piece of char siew that i can eat than to have an aunty like you, an idiotic dead weight i have to bear here. And your views alone would shame my ancestry.
And nope, regarding the supply and demand. I found that out when i tried to buy a rubbish bin and found the price had gone up. The shopkeeper told me it was not due to oil or anything else, but because our society had found many idiots and needed a huge amount of rubbish bins to thrash folks like you, madam Atobe, in.