Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... correction; it isn't that we DID NOT...... we are all NOT ALLOWED to protest against the increases...
... people are just hanging on by their fingernails, and all pent up inside...
.. what's gonna give? Who knows...?
If you want the good life, be prepared to work hard for it. Protesting and bitching aint gonna help one bit, more so over issues we have no control, except to make all end up losing even more.
Be realistic. We need to upgrade our skills, seek better paying jobs or cut back on exuberant spending or cut down on wastages. The crisis is worldwide.
Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Look, I sincerly empathise with those who are hit hard by the energy crisis. Even if we were to take public transport, cut down the amount of cars and buses, or save electricity, the fact is, oil will still not drop, or drop to significant levels.
How can "oil drop, or drop to significant levels" - when you are confused as to what will drop ?
Will it be - the price of oil, or the volume of oil output, or the remaining stocks of oil, or the oil reserves - will drop ?
Because oil is a commodity heavily used for industrialization. Factories, manufacturing, and shipments rely on it. The only real way oil will be go down is to STOP buying consumer goods altogether! But it would not be realistic, hell no, not even me would give up on my new hp or HDTV.
The logic of a 'deerHunter' is certainly gifted and uniquely twisted.
Do you seriously think that whether you or anyone else willingness to give up HDTV will help in "the real way oil will be go down" ?
How certain are you that this is the ''real way" and that it is not the false way ?
Why do you think that the stopping or reduction in the consumption of consumer goods will contribute in the "oil will be go down" ?
Are there no other influencing factors that affect oil prices and prevent "oil" from "go down" ?
Is the manufacturing chain such an influencial factor that affect "oil will go down" that it is more important a factor then transport, electrical power and heat generation ?
We need alternative energy research. And rather than to bitch and moan and blame everyone else under the sun, lets think positively - sustainable approach.
Bravo for your usual "Grand Standing Performance" - what are your suggestions for any "sustainable approaches" that ordinary Singaporeans can effectively contribute to help themselves to face the present problems ?
It is easy to make "seemingly" broad visionary statements - but another to find the "nuts and bots" to make your visionary statement into some semblance of reality.
It is no use looking at a magnified view of a targetted gazelle - seen up close through your cross-haired scope - while it is more then 100 meters away.
Are you certain that you can hit the gazelle with one shot when you have no idea nor appreciation of the wind factor, nor any other surrounding issues that can thwart a successful shot seen through a narrow and magnified view of a hunting scope ?
Oil prices will continue to rise as economies get more affluent and demand for better manufactured consumer goods. Much of oil costs will be added to the costings and passed on to us.
Have you picked some lessons from some previous posts, but forgotten the remaining parts of the lessons taught to you ?
The Global Economies have seen continuous cycles of progress and development since the end of WW-2, and it was during the 6-day Israeli War that saw the Arab oil producing countries forming a cartel to use oil as a bargaining chip to force Israel to withdraw from occupied land.
This move only cause a political backfire on the Arabs, when a surge in oil storage by major oil consuming nations resulted in a world glut - as had happened when Malaysia tried to control a global rubber cartel in the early 70s, only to be thwarted by US development in synthetic rubber and offered it as an alternative to natural rubber.
The price of crude oil has seen continous tussle between Middle-east oil exporters, who depend on the West as the consumer market, and at the same instance will need the West for its technologies and expertise to extract the Middle-eastern oil.
Both sides need each other to progress, and the current crisis in uncontrolled crude oil prices is happening at a time when economic slow down is occurring across the globe, and has affected consumption as consumers tightened their belts.
Even the FBI has been called by the US Government to investigate if the present oil pricing is a conspiracy to sabotage the global economies, or from sheer greed by speculators finding a niche area that has been left exposed.
How do you intend to fit in your theory of oil prices increased due to increasing demands of consumer goods from affluent global economies ?
Thus, if we want a certain lifestyle, then we best be prepared to pay more for it, AT OUR OWN EXPENSE AND NOT OUR FELLOW CITIZEN'S EXPENSE, thru the cries for subsidies and tax cuts.
Were Singaporeans not asked to reach for the Swiss Standard of Living ?
With your claimed "inside knowledge" when not even a PAP member - are you privy to some knowledge that any Citizen has asked for the Government to pay for our oil ?
Is it not a fact that the petrol sold in Singapore do not have any subsidy from this Government - and that even as there is no subsidy to the petrol sold in Singapore, this Government has even dared to place taxes on each litre sold ?
Will it not result in the citizens who do not own cars also paying for the cost of "over-priced" Singapore petrol that a merchant will have to pay but will pass the cost of petrol to the consumer - who may or may not be a vehicle owner ?
Does this not result in a scenario in which Citizens who do not own vehicles will be required to pay for the tax of those other Citizen owning vehicles ?
Either we learn to accept reality and live within our means or we make everyone else pay for our selfish desire of materialism.
It is time that the 'deerHunter' learn to accept reality and live within the means of his intellectual capacity, or he will be making every visitor to this SC - to pay for his selfish and vain desire to gain attention from his make-believe wide audience.
Was it not your selfish inability to give up the HDTV, which surely cannot meet the reality in living within your means in a $27 garbage bin ?
Surely the stupendous abilities of a 'deerHunter' can be made out in the usual self- indulgently patronising views given in an amateurish effort at a juvenile Grand Standing Performance ?
Think about it from an environmental perspective, and you'll see why subsidised fuel is a bad idea.
subsidy???!!!! just cut the tax is good enough.
...instead of losing the money to foreigners.... and are you implying that losing Singaporeans' hard earned money to foreigners is good for the environment?!!!!????
Originally posted by Atobe:How can "oil drop, or drop to significant levels" - when you are confused as to what will drop ?
Will it be - the price of oil, or the volume of oil output, or the remaining stocks of oil, or the oil reserves - will drop ?
The logic of a 'deerHunter' is certainly gifted and uniquely twisted.
Do you seriously think that whether you or anyone else willingness to give up HDTV will help in "the real way oil will be go down" ?
How certain are you that this is the ''real way" and that it is not the false way ?
Why do you think that the stopping or reduction in the consumption of consumer goods will contribute in the "oil will be go down" ?
Are there no other influencing factors that affect oil prices and prevent "oil" from "go down" ?
Is the manufacturing chain such an influencial factor that affect "oil will go down" that it is more important a factor then transport, electrical power and heat generation ?
Bravo for your usual "Grand Standing Performance" - what are your suggestions for any "sustainable approaches" that ordinary Singaporeans can effectively contribute to help themselves to face the present problems ?
It is easy to make "seemingly" broad visionary statements - but another to find the "nuts and bots" to make your visionary statement into some semblance of reality.
It is no use looking at a magnified view of a targetted gazelle - seen up close through your cross-haired scope - while it is more then 100 meters away.
Are you certain that you can hit the gazelle with one shot when you have no idea nor appreciation of the wind factor, nor any other surrounding issues that can thwart a successful shot seen through a narrow and magnified view of a hunting scope ?
Have you picked some lessons from some previous posts, but forgotten the remaining parts of the lessons taught to you ?
The Global Economies have seen continuous cycles of progress and development since the end of WW-2, and it was during the 6-day Israeli War that saw the Arab oil producing countries forming a cartel to use oil as a bargaining chip to force Israel to withdraw from occupied land.
This move only cause a political backfire on the Arabs, when a surge in oil storage by major oil consuming nations resulted in a world glut - as had happened when Malaysia tried to control a global rubber cartel in the early 70s, only to be thwarted by US development in synthetic rubber and offered it as an alternative to natural rubber.
The price of crude oil has seen continous tussle between Middle-east oil exporters, who depend on the West as the consumer market, and at the same instance will need the West for its technologies and expertise to extract the Middle-eastern oil.
Both sides need each other to progress, and the current crisis in uncontrolled crude oil prices is happening at a time when economic slow down is occurring across the globe, and has affected consumption as consumers tightened their belts.
Even the FBI has been called by the US Government to investigate if the present oil pricing is a conspiracy to sabotage the global economies, or from sheer greed by speculators finding a niche area that has been left exposed.
How do you intend to fit in your theory of oil prices increased due to increasing demands of consumer goods from affluent global economies ?
Were Singaporeans not asked to reach for the Swiss Standard of Living ?
With your claimed "inside knowledge" when not even a PAP member - are you privy to some knowledge that any Citizen has asked for the Government to pay for our oil ?
Is it not a fact that the petrol sold in Singapore do not have any subsidy from this Government - and that even as there is no subsidy to the petrol sold in Singapore, this Government has even dared to place taxes on each litre sold ?
Will it not result in the citizens who do not own cars also paying for the cost of "over-priced" Singapore petrol that a merchant will have to pay but will pass the cost of petrol to the consumer - who may or may not be a vehicle owner ?
Does this not result in a scenario in which Citizens who do not own vehicles will be required to pay for the tax of those other Citizen owning vehicles ?
It is time that the 'deerHunter' learn to accept reality and live within the means of his intellectual capacity, or he will be making every visitor to this SC - to pay for his selfish and vain desire to gain attention from his make-believe wide audience.
Was it not your selfish inability to give up the HDTV, which surely cannot meet the reality in living within your means in a $27 garbage bin ?
Surely the stupendous abilities of a 'deerHunter' can be made out in the usual self- indulgently patronising views given in an amateurish effort at a juvenile Grand Standing Performance ?
Getting out of your rubbish bin for some fresh air? Can't blame you for spouting rubbish and gibberish, making others have to ASSUME what you are infering. The only change i saw was that you finally realized "Does this not result in a scenario in which Citizens who do not own vehicles will be required to pay for the tax of those other Citizen owning vehicles ? ".
A question no doubt, but that you can form it meant you finally woke up. Again, I must take credit for knocking sense into your block head, even though you had to twist everything just to make yourself feel better. But then, after saying that, you continue on with gibberish. DO go stay back into your rubbish bin and meditate further on the realities of the situation, and hopefully, you may be an useful citizen to society one day.
LOL
Originally posted by mistyblue:Hyflux is the one that collect water from air?
I think it has some niche uses especially in areas where its easier to setup Hyflux than to build a water treatment plant... and the speed of providing water is critical but its unable to produce alot ... Anyways, technology is advancing. I just wish I didn't have to drink newwater. Its a disgusting thought
Newater is not from our toilet one lah.
Anyway, it doesn't matter where the is the source because all the pollutants and substances are filtered off.
If the water treatment technology advance further, I think the government can even make the population to 10 millions. lol.
Hyflux is making a good progress on this. I feel that Temasik Holdfing will one day be interested in taking over this company. hehe.
Some people are saying that the newwater mixed into our tap water is cauing the current spade of young people to die from heart issues because there are compounds in the new water that cannot be removed and are causing heart issues. No sure true or not but even if its true, we will never know as our media is state controlled mah.
Oil price shooting up again ... Sigh. When will this end.
Originally posted by mistyblue:Some people are saying that the newwater mixed into our tap water is cauing the current spade of young people to die from heart issues because there are compounds in the new water that cannot be removed and are causing heart issues. No sure true or not but even if its true, we will never know as our media is state controlled mah.
Oil price shooting up again ... Sigh. When will this end.
Imho, it will not .. The most it will not increase.
Get back on your rocker, Andy. Subsidising petrol, diesel and electricity for the general population will encourage wastage. The price of energy will not go down, and it's untenable.
There should be waivers and discounts for ultra-low and low per pax energy usage though, and who likes seeing the destitute run to their MPs to petition SP not to cut off their supply? Sadly in Singapore it's only a pipe dream.
Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Get back on your rocker, Andy. Subsidising petrol, diesel and electricity for the general population will encourage wastage. The price of energy will not go down, and it's untenable.
There should be waivers and discounts for ultra-low and low per pax energy usage though, and who likes seeing the destitute run to their MPs to petition SP not to cut off their supply? Sadly in Singapore it's only a pipe dream.
thought NEA was running a energy saving champaign with $10,000 prize money to be given to family who reduce the most in their energy usage?
Originally posted by £ Ĭ €Ú°:
thought NEA was running a energy saving champaign with $10,000 prize money to be given to family who reduce the most in their energy usage?
one family..?
wow..
Well rising prices for everything, and they want to increase our GST as well. People are already very unhappy. And right after the increase of GST they raise the politician's salary. We would have protested if we could. Or we knew how.
Seriously, stop complaining.
No matter what actions ANY government is doing, peak oil is a very real thing. (some idiots actually believed that peak oil is a myth...wake UP!)
And furthermore, the human society in modern day depends on oil way too much. An increase in oil prices means the price of EVERY single good will increase. Increase in oil prices mean transportation cost will rise, food prices will rise as well, and every other thing will all rise.
The cost of living WILL continue to increase as long as we are dependent on oil. And for people who own cars, stop complaining. People's obession with owning cars does more harm than good.
It's not like there is no public transports...
Every single people in the world from US to north korea will have to cut down their spendings on luxury, because the world can NO longer support such a huge amount of people enjoying themselves in luxury.
If energy is subsidised, people are simply doing more harm to themselves than good. Right now, energy is a very precious resource...and the only way to restrict wastage is to ensure the cost goes up.
People may not enjoy the cost of living going up, but this is a reality faced by everyone...the golden age of humanity have come to a pass in a sense...less people will be able to maintain the same lifestyle they currently enjoy.
Change your lifestyle, it is not going to be easy, but it is necessary for a person to do so.
What makes you think singaporeans should be different from any other country?
Also, if we want to get more energy, we can always build a nuclear power plant in singapore.
Good long term investment anyway.
Originally posted by £ Ĭ €Ú°:
thought NEA was running a energy saving champaign with $10,000 prize money to be given to family who reduce the most in their energy usage?
It should be a long-term thing, which a contest does not necessarily encourage. But it's not going to happen with profit-driven energy companies here and elsewhere in the world.
Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Getting out of your rubbish bin for some fresh air? Can't blame you for spouting rubbish and gibberish, making others have to ASSUME what you are infering. The only change i saw was that you finally realized "Does this not result in a scenario in which Citizens who do not own vehicles will be required to pay for the tax of those other Citizen owning vehicles ? ".
A question no doubt, but that you can form it meant you finally woke up. Again, I must take credit for knocking sense into your block head, even though you had to twist everything just to make yourself feel better. But then, after saying that, you continue on with gibberish. DO go stay back into your rubbish bin and meditate further on the realities of the situation, and hopefully, you may be an useful citizen to society one day.
What else can a juvenile 'deerHunter' be good at - except to be impetulant, mischevious and simply dishonest ?
Are you so desparate to score points by willingly exposing yourself to be seen as unreliable and dishonest even on a simple point of debate ?
Or were you simply too hurried in your reading, to skip out those parts that were too inconvenient for you to absorb the truth that your arguments were simply hollow ?
Is it not a fact that the petrol sold in Singapore do not have any subsidy from this Government - and that even as there is no subsidy to the petrol sold in Singapore, this Government has even dared to place taxes on each litre sold ?
Will it not result in the citizens who do not own cars also paying for the cost of "over-priced" Singapore petrol that a merchant will have to pay but will pass the cost of petrol to the consumer - who may or may not be a vehicle owner ?
Does this not result in a scenario in which Citizens who do not own vehicles will be required to pay for the tax of those other Citizen owning vehicles ?
If this is not in the same characteristic style of the "die-hard sniffer of the undie-world" in being willfully mischevious when stumped, and desparately hoping to squirm out before the noose gets tightened.
This amateurish effort with a simple lie can also failed, and is entirely due to your low 1% inspiration, and overdependence in 99% perspiration.
Did you fail to learn from your Master Shepherd advise in simply "Working Smart". ?
Originally posted by Atobe:What else can a juvenile 'deerHunter' be good at - except to be impetulant, mischevious and simply dishonest ?
Are you so desparate to score points by willingly exposing yourself to be seen as unreliable and dishonest even on a simple point of debate ?
Or were you simply too hurried in your reading, to skip out those parts that were too inconvenient for you to absorb the truth that your arguments were simply hollow ?
If this is not in the same characteristic style of the "die-hard sniffer of the undie-world" in being willfully mischevious when stumped, and desparately hoping to squirm out before the noose gets tightened.
This amateurish effort with a simple lie can also failed, and is entirely due to your low 1% inspiration, and overdependence in 99% perspiration.
Did you fail to learn from your Master Shepherd advise in simply "Working Smart". ?
What do you know of 'working hard'? You, who is someone who live in the rubbish bin, feed with rubbish by your master CSJ and spew only rubbish. Be glad you are not consigned to live under mushrooms, otherwise you will only be fed with more CSJ bullshit and give out crap farts, or are you already living there?
btw, would like to talk about SP recent price hikes
they claim that rising price of crude oil have force them to raise the price of power. with that, the quoted figures about the price per barrel of crude.
the issue here is that singapore always claimed that here in singapore, we burn cleaner fuel to generate power. our powerplants run on 100% natural gas, imported from indonesia.
yes, i know that the price of gas may be link to the price of crude, but is it justifiable to explain for price hike in power quoting price of crude? it is an attempt to deceive the consumers.
Originally posted by mistyblue:SG is the only country that did not protest against the increasing petrol prices. Also the only country that did not have subsidy for the petrol and most likely similar for electricity and water ...
you want subsidy?
before you ask that question, remember that money no grow on trees... so who? in your opinion should fund that subsidy?
running down our reserves is not an answer... because if our reserves drop, the value of singapore dollar goes with it... and right behind such depreciation, mister INFLATION would be following closely behind.
Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:Thanks to western inventors, we are so lucky to have a chance to produce water at lower cost.
I wonder how is hyflux involved in this. Will it be competing against hyflux or complement it being used by hyflux. I assume its is more cost effective than hyflux's?
forget hyflux... with oil prices rising... and their standing contract to provide water to the govt at a fixed price... i would be worried if i hold any of their shares.
anyway... their boss is a patriotic malaysian... i doubt our govt likes that.
Originally posted by Civilgoh:
YOu have to give thanks to LKY and his PAP gang for this. There is nothing wrong when there is no subsidy as with the present ruling party it is their main "duty" to earn as much money as possible by not allowing any subsidy.
are you proposing that our govt raise taxes to fund the subsidies??
NO economist i know would ever support subsidies.... argentina, once the richest nation on earth became wat it is today, because of "subsidies". singapore with no natural resources would end up worst then ethiopia if we follow your idea.
Originally posted by deathmaster:btw, would like to talk about SP recent price hikes
they claim that rising price of crude oil have force them to raise the price of power. with that, the quoted figures about the price per barrel of crude.
the issue here is that singapore always claimed that here in singapore, we burn cleaner fuel to generate power. our powerplants run on 100% natural gas, imported from indonesia.
yes, i know that the price of gas may be link to the price of crude, but is it justifiable to explain for price hike in power quoting price of crude? it is an attempt to deceive the consumers.
if our govt increase the price of power based 100% on crude prices... your electricity bill would have went up by more then 500 percent already, given that the price of crude oil was only US$22 in 2002 (yesterday its at US$142!!!).
but the govt's foresight to switch to LNG due to the oil production peak... we have been spared the full brunt of the rise in oil prices.
unfortunately, the LNG peak production is only about 10 to 20 years after the oil peak production.... we need an alternative energy source quickly, or we will all suffer.
Originally posted by deathmaster:btw, would like to talk about SP recent price hikes
they claim that rising price of crude oil have force them to raise the price of power. with that, the quoted figures about the price per barrel of crude.
the issue here is that singapore always claimed that here in singapore, we burn cleaner fuel to generate power. our powerplants run on 100% natural gas, imported from indonesia.
yes, i know that the price of gas may be link to the price of crude, but is it justifiable to explain for price hike in power quoting price of crude? it is an attempt to deceive the consumers.
yes, i know that the price of gas may be link to the price of crude, but is it justifiable to explain for price hike in power quoting price of crude? it is an attempt to deceive the consumers.
There is no deception, simply because we don't have gas as a natural resource. ( the hot air from Atobe don't count!)
Way back when several developed countries' national electrical grid systems used oil as a fuel for electrical generations, their hardware were configured to have the ability to switch to natural gas to generate electricity.
This was so due to the seasonal demand of electricity. During cool springs and summer, there was not much demand for electricity, but during winter, the demand peaked to keep people warm. As such, electrical companies switched to gas, a cheaper alternative than fuel back then, to keep costs down.
But then, most of gas producers were also oil producers, and they are not stupid (unlike Atobe). They pegged gas to oil prices and consumers have to bear the costs.
And when easy extraction surface oil was claimed to be diminishing and its price shot thru the roof, so did gas prices followed. The world could do nothing and just paid up.
Similarly, in Singapore, our supply comes from Indonesia, and the price we get for natural gas is pegged to oil. The indonesians are the ones getting rich, not our govt or treasury. We have no choice but to accept, and take it as one more source of energy than to have total reliance on the volatile middle east for oil, which supplies may be cut if wars break out there.
As for me, on a personal basis, i would prefer not to have any dealings with these chinese women rapists indonesians. I have no business dealings with them and even if i were to be given a ten foot pole to sign deals with them, i would rather tell them to take a hike.
I don't mince my words, but unfortunately, our govt cannot talk the way i do, and have to engage in diplomatic lingo so as not to offend them, for the sake of our People. So for those of you who complain that our govt is not doing enough, do understand their constraints in having to do the diplomatic tango with Indonesia and Malaysia, not that they want to, but they have to for the sake of peace and stabiltiy for our country and People.