Originally posted by anonymous_dickhead:“A Tale of Two Cities: Factor Accumulation and Technical Change in Hong Kong and Singapore.” - MIT economist Alwyn Young link
1) "both capital and (human capital adjusted) labour input have grown considerably faster in Singapore. While technical change has contributed substantially to economic growth in Hong Kong, its contribution to growth in Singapore is next to nil"
2) "Singapore's growth was largely the result of brute-force capital accumlation and that total factor productivity has actually fallen sharply"
3) "even with impalusibly high depreciation rates, Singapore's TFP growth still looked poor"
4) "other economist also suggested that Singapore's government had driven savings and investments to unnecessarily high levels."
5) "Singapore became richer by thrusting its hands ever deeper into its citizen's pockets - through taxes, forced savings and subsidies to multinationals - and throwing money at the problem"
You know, I think I kinda agree to that.
And to TS, yes, I do agree the Mr Lee was a very good leader. In fact, one might even say that he's the best. But what's past is past now. He may be a good leader a few decades ago. But is he still?
As a precautionary measure, I'd say yes. He still is.
On another note, please refrain from using phrases like: third world country. In case you haven't noticed, developed countries with civilised citizens call the undeveloped countries developing countries.
The title of this thread is so arrogrant it's almost amusing, ie. it sounds pretty much like a six year old going around a school yard saying his dad is the richest or what have you not.
But then again given TS blames our first generation Singaporeans for simply being alive that's why we're only 25th on the Human development index, I am not too surprised...
£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who here can claim that he makes the best "ba chor mee" than I?Forumer: I think the Bedok "ba chor mee" is best...£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who say so? proof it! By whose standard?Forumer: Er.. I think at least 10 people here say so...£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who are these 10 people? What is their qualification?Forumer: They have been eating "ba chor mee" for the last 20 years lor...£ Ỉ €Ú°: So what? The expert I hire says my "ba chor mee" is the best. Besides, Bedok "bar chor mee" is different. They do not have the dry version.Forumer: Tampinese dry version "ba chor mee" also not bad...£ Ỉ €Ú°: I'm not comparing dry "ba chor mee", the criteria is soup based, must have at least 2 fish ball, 30g of ba chor, tur kwa, exactly one piece of veg measuring no less than 10cm and 50g of noodles that have an average elascity of 2cm. And must be in the west.Forumer: You win lor... but still nobody likes your "ba chor mee"
LOL, good one.
Really deflated his whole topic there...
Originally posted by anonymous_dickhead:£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who here can claim that he makes the best "ba chor mee" than I?Forumer: I think the Bedok "ba chor mee" is best...£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who say so? proof it! By whose standard?Forumer: Er.. I think at least 10 people here say so...£ Ỉ €Ú°: Who are these 10 people? What is their qualification?Forumer: They have been eating "ba chor mee" for the last 20 years lor...£ Ỉ €Ú°: So what? The expert I hire says my "ba chor mee" is the best. Besides, Bedok "bar chor mee" is different. They do not have the dry version.Forumer: Tampinese dry version "ba chor mee" also not bad...£ Ỉ €Ú°: I'm not comparing dry "ba chor mee", the criteria is soup based, must have at least 2 fish ball, 30g of ba chor, tur kwa, exactly one piece of veg measuring no less than 10cm and 50g of noodles that have an average elascity of 2cm. And must be in the west.Forumer: You win lor... but still nobody likes your "ba chor mee"
haha nice one.
Typical of Gazelle. Everyone has to meet his own criteria and only he has the right to change it. Pathetic creature.
Wonder where Point_Blank went to
Singapore government is well known for her efficiency with the statutory board serving the citizens in an orderly and systematic fashion. It is also effective in dealing with citizens’ enquiries in a swift and responsive manner.
Originally posted by TooFree:Singapore government is well known for her efficiency with the statutory board serving the citizens in an orderly and systematic fashion. It is also effective in dealing with citizens’ enquiries in a swift and responsive manner.
I don't deny its efficency is quite ok.
But in other areas, hmm.
What I am worried is that.....if democracy is implemented fully.....we dont know what kind of animal will come out from it.
PAP and LKY are indeed autocratic, but Singapore is lucky, they have been benevolent autocrats who had delivered results and led wisely.
I understand autocracy has its excesses, and moreover, there is no guarentee that the next leaders will be good. There is a systemic danger in autocracy itself.
However.....PAP has been able to maintain a sterile condition and in a sense keep a lid on undercurrents in Singapore society. I am not sure what will happen if this lid is taken off and democracy is implemented.
That can be quite worrying.
Singapore is a young nation, very young, just about 2 generations.
It is actually quite precarious....
Look at the societies around us, in nearby countries. I will say afew examples and you can see why I am worried.
Full democracy means letting off the full forces of society's undercurrents.
In Malaysia, they have a race-based politics, and they have not been able to come out from it. It is quite nasty and unhealthy, impacting economics, education, and other fields.
In Indonesia, after they implemented democracy, there is a surge of sectarian-religious based politics, for instance political Islam. Islamic parties seeking to implement Sharia and other agendas.
Im not saying Malaysia and Indonesia have full functioning democracies, their system also have flaws, but I am giving you examples of how these undercurrents in society surface itself and reflect itself, and I am not sure what kind of undercurrents will surface in Singapore once PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is taken off.
Do you see what I mean?
PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is the basis for Singapore's long stability and tranquility, enabling Singapore to concentrate on development in all fields, while not needing to tinker or bother with political-ideological struggles.
That is why PAP monopoly and sanitized political environment is not entirely to Singapore's detriment, it is in fact proven to be Singapore's benefit.
Let's say after LKY is gone and younger generation want to implement more reforms, more democracy....I am telling you honestly I am not sure it is better for Singapore.
There has been great progress in societal integration....HDB mixed-race quota.....NS enrollment....etc.....but are you so sure Singapore people are so united..? And its intstitution and society so strong? Remember Singapore is 2 generations old.
I am just afraid undercurrents will be released and then Singapore will waste its energy and its intellectual capital debating itself and fighting itself.
We dont know what kind of animal will come out.
Meat Pao.
Please do not mistake hard-working government servants with public money grabbing as-holes.
Originally posted by Meat Pao:What I am worried is that.....if democracy is implemented fully.....we dont know what kind of animal will come out from it.
PAP and LKY are indeed autocratic, but Singapore is lucky, they have been benevolent autocrats who had delivered results and led wisely.
I understand autocracy has its excesses, and moreover, there is no guarentee that the next leaders will be good. There is a systemic danger in autocracy itself.
However.....PAP has been able to maintain a sterile condition and in a sense keep a lid on undercurrents in Singapore society. I am not sure what will happen if this lid is taken off and democracy is implemented.
That can be quite worrying.
Singapore is a young nation, very young, just about 2 generations.
It is actually quite precarious....
Look at the societies around us, in nearby countries. I will say afew examples and you can see why I am worried.
Full democracy means letting off the full forces of society's undercurrents.
In Malaysia, they have a race-based politics, and they have not been able to come out from it. It is quite nasty and unhealthy, impacting economics, education, and other fields.
In Indonesia, after they implemented democracy, there is a surge of sectarian-religious based politics, for instance political Islam. Islamic parties seeking to implement Sharia and other agendas.
Im not saying Malaysia and Indonesia have full functioning democracies, their system also have flaws, but I am giving you examples of how these undercurrents in society surface itself and reflect itself, and I am not sure what kind of undercurrents will surface in Singapore once PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is taken off.
Do you see what I mean?
PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is the basis for Singapore's long stability and tranquility, enabling Singapore to concentrate on development in all fields, while not needing to tinker or bother with political-ideological struggles.
That is why PAP monopoly and sanitized political environment is not entirely to Singapore's detriment, it is in fact proven to be Singapore's benefit.
Let's say after LKY is gone and younger generation want to implement more reforms, more democracy....I am telling you honestly I am not sure it is better for Singapore.
There has been great progress in societal integration....HDB mixed-race quota.....NS enrollment....etc.....but are you so sure Singapore people are so united..? And its intstitution and society so strong? Remember Singapore is 2 generations old.
I am just afraid undercurrents will be released and then Singapore will waste its energy and its intellectual capital debating itself and fighting itself.
We dont know what kind of animal will come out.
Meat Pao.
Stay true to the Singapore Pledge and to the symbols of the national flag.
Originally posted by Meat Pao:What I am worried is that.....if democracy is implemented fully.....we dont know what kind of animal will come out from it.
PAP and LKY are indeed autocratic, but Singapore is lucky, they have been benevolent autocrats who had delivered results and led wisely.
I understand autocracy has its excesses, and moreover, there is no guarentee that the next leaders will be good. There is a systemic danger in autocracy itself.
However.....PAP has been able to maintain a sterile condition and in a sense keep a lid on undercurrents in Singapore society. I am not sure what will happen if this lid is taken off and democracy is implemented.
That can be quite worrying.
Singapore is a young nation, very young, just about 2 generations.
It is actually quite precarious....
Look at the societies around us, in nearby countries. I will say afew examples and you can see why I am worried.
Full democracy means letting off the full forces of society's undercurrents.
In Malaysia, they have a race-based politics, and they have not been able to come out from it. It is quite nasty and unhealthy, impacting economics, education, and other fields.
In Indonesia, after they implemented democracy, there is a surge of sectarian-religious based politics, for instance political Islam. Islamic parties seeking to implement Sharia and other agendas.
Im not saying Malaysia and Indonesia have full functioning democracies, their system also have flaws, but I am giving you examples of how these undercurrents in society surface itself and reflect itself, and I am not sure what kind of undercurrents will surface in Singapore once PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is taken off.
Do you see what I mean?
PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is the basis for Singapore's long stability and tranquility, enabling Singapore to concentrate on development in all fields, while not needing to tinker or bother with political-ideological struggles.
That is why PAP monopoly and sanitized political environment is not entirely to Singapore's detriment, it is in fact proven to be Singapore's benefit.
Let's say after LKY is gone and younger generation want to implement more reforms, more democracy....I am telling you honestly I am not sure it is better for Singapore.
There has been great progress in societal integration....HDB mixed-race quota.....NS enrollment....etc.....but are you so sure Singapore people are so united..? And its intstitution and society so strong? Remember Singapore is 2 generations old.
I am just afraid undercurrents will be released and then Singapore will waste its energy and its intellectual capital debating itself and fighting itself.
We dont know what kind of animal will come out.
Meat Pao.
Uncle Meat Pao,
You don't seem to have very much faith in the younger generations.
Just a slight reminder. Singapore is also our home, our country.
We also do not want to see it go to ruin.
Our forefathers worked hard to build up this little island, now we want to make it even betta.
We can understand why our fathers/grandfathers went along with the tripartite arrangements.They have seen with their own eyes what happens when riot or mass protests occurs, people die, lives in disarray.
But does that arrangement also include a "fine print" that says the future generations of Singaporeans to give up their rights to speak out against the ruling party ? That we should all keep quiet when we see the dirty hands that was dealt to commoners , or else be prepared to face the wrath of our own security and judiciary system?
If there is no sparks..there be no fire.
Just because we do not agree with some of the policies, does not means we no longer love our country.
It is because we care..that's why we feel so strongly about it.
Originally posted by Meat Pao:What I am worried is that.....if democracy is implemented fully.....we dont know what kind of animal will come out from it.
PAP and LKY are indeed autocratic, but Singapore is lucky, they have been benevolent autocrats who had delivered results and led wisely.
I understand autocracy has its excesses, and moreover, there is no guarentee that the next leaders will be good. There is a systemic danger in autocracy itself.
However.....PAP has been able to maintain a sterile condition and in a sense keep a lid on undercurrents in Singapore society. I am not sure what will happen if this lid is taken off and democracy is implemented.
That can be quite worrying.
Singapore is a young nation, very young, just about 2 generations.
It is actually quite precarious....
Look at the societies around us, in nearby countries. I will say afew examples and you can see why I am worried.
Full democracy means letting off the full forces of society's undercurrents.
In Malaysia, they have a race-based politics, and they have not been able to come out from it. It is quite nasty and unhealthy, impacting economics, education, and other fields.
In Indonesia, after they implemented democracy, there is a surge of sectarian-religious based politics, for instance political Islam. Islamic parties seeking to implement Sharia and other agendas.
Im not saying Malaysia and Indonesia have full functioning democracies, their system also have flaws, but I am giving you examples of how these undercurrents in society surface itself and reflect itself, and I am not sure what kind of undercurrents will surface in Singapore once PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is taken off.
Do you see what I mean?
PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is the basis for Singapore's long stability and tranquility, enabling Singapore to concentrate on development in all fields, while not needing to tinker or bother with political-ideological struggles.
That is why PAP monopoly and sanitized political environment is not entirely to Singapore's detriment, it is in fact proven to be Singapore's benefit.
Let's say after LKY is gone and younger generation want to implement more reforms, more democracy....I am telling you honestly I am not sure it is better for Singapore.
There has been great progress in societal integration....HDB mixed-race quota.....NS enrollment....etc.....but are you so sure Singapore people are so united..? And its intstitution and society so strong? Remember Singapore is 2 generations old.
I am just afraid undercurrents will be released and then Singapore will waste its energy and its intellectual capital debating itself and fighting itself.
We dont know what kind of animal will come out.
Meat Pao.
Wtih Singaporeans supposedly being the best educated amongst all the neighboring countries, with legislations passed to maintain Law and Order, and with 50 odd years of constant moulding of inter-ethnic tolerance and respect - can Singaporeans turned into a mob overnight - or spiral into chaos - when Full Democracy is adopted ?
It clearly shows a lack of confidence in our own institutions, and one should why are we still doubting our own standards of political attitudes and behavior to govern ourselves, our political conduct towards each other, our political ability to think for ourselves ?
Have we not been an independent nation since the ignominous year in 1965 ?
After 50 odd years of rule by the PAP, why will LKY "insist on returning from the grave" if anything should go wrong ?
Has LKY no confidence in his past and present works that he will leave behind ?
Is this not a wake-up call for Singaporeans to question what we have achieved for our future after 50 odds years of monopolistic rule by only one Political Party ?
Surely it speaks volume of the political instability of the Singapore Political Institutions that LKY has created and will be leaving behind when he runs out of time ?
Do the Swiss, or the Israelis, or the Hongkongers worry of their respective political future - in the same manner as LKY and those in the Ruling Political Party ?
In these countries, political institutions are strengthened with each successive gorvernment, that perpetuate the security and development of the nation and its peoples.
Unfortunately for Singapore - ruled by the sole Political Party that Singaporeans have known since the 1950s - we see the wilful weakining of all the institutions needed for the proper administration of Law and Order - as it allowed the Law Makers to be above the Law, with the Administators of the Law to be subjugate to the Law Makers.
The pillars of every public institutions are no longer independent to stand on its own strength, and all are designed to lean on the central structure, which when weakened will result in the public institutions similarly weakened.
The entire system has been purposefully designed to be controlled from the Center, and when the Center should weaken or collapse, it allow the deposed Center to continue manipulating the strings that it will continue to hold in control of the various institutions that support the Government.
If doubts permeate in the minds of cynics - who believe that Singaporeans cannot conduct ourselves in real independence - it clearly shows that 50 years of politial independence is a sham, as Singaporeans have been forced to be dependent on only one poltical party - for our collective political, security, and economic security.
Is Singapore's independence similar to that of the Swiss, or Israelis, or Hongkongers - as independent Citizens enjoying their democratic political rights ?
Or is our present independence a sham - as Singaporeans were again re-colonised and subjugated by the politics of an Autocratic Party that is worst then the British Colonialist, and the imperialism of Malay politicians ?
Originally posted by Meat Pao:What I am worried is that.....if democracy is implemented fully.....we dont know what kind of animal will come out from it.
PAP and LKY are indeed autocratic, but Singapore is lucky, they have been benevolent autocrats who had delivered results and led wisely.
I understand autocracy has its excesses, and moreover, there is no guarentee that the next leaders will be good. There is a systemic danger in autocracy itself.
However.....PAP has been able to maintain a sterile condition and in a sense keep a lid on undercurrents in Singapore society. I am not sure what will happen if this lid is taken off and democracy is implemented.
That can be quite worrying.
Singapore is a young nation, very young, just about 2 generations.
It is actually quite precarious....
Look at the societies around us, in nearby countries. I will say afew examples and you can see why I am worried.
Full democracy means letting off the full forces of society's undercurrents.
In Malaysia, they have a race-based politics, and they have not been able to come out from it. It is quite nasty and unhealthy, impacting economics, education, and other fields.
In Indonesia, after they implemented democracy, there is a surge of sectarian-religious based politics, for instance political Islam. Islamic parties seeking to implement Sharia and other agendas.
Im not saying Malaysia and Indonesia have full functioning democracies, their system also have flaws, but I am giving you examples of how these undercurrents in society surface itself and reflect itself, and I am not sure what kind of undercurrents will surface in Singapore once PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is taken off.
Do you see what I mean?
PAP monopoly and ideological stranglehold is the basis for Singapore's long stability and tranquility, enabling Singapore to concentrate on development in all fields, while not needing to tinker or bother with political-ideological struggles.
That is why PAP monopoly and sanitized political environment is not entirely to Singapore's detriment, it is in fact proven to be Singapore's benefit.
Let's say after LKY is gone and younger generation want to implement more reforms, more democracy....I am telling you honestly I am not sure it is better for Singapore.
There has been great progress in societal integration....HDB mixed-race quota.....NS enrollment....etc.....but are you so sure Singapore people are so united..? And its intstitution and society so strong? Remember Singapore is 2 generations old.
I am just afraid undercurrents will be released and then Singapore will waste its energy and its intellectual capital debating itself and fighting itself.
We dont know what kind of animal will come out.
Meat Pao.
Well said Meat Pao
Oh ya. And how is extra GST very good for the people?
Diesel have increase to $2.003 yesterday lol scary man
Originally posted by Midlusionz:Diesel have increase to $2.003 yesterday lol scary man
Oh no our bus fare.
Well, i heard there is going to be another increase at end of july ..
ya great. Next time all buy car already.
Hmm.. Not really..
1st scenerio - All of us give up our own private transport and go public transport .. Thou by then public transport maybe more effective .. Fares increase .. LPPL .. Money still go to goverment. Don't tell mi diesel increase bus fare won't increase.
2nd scenerio - All decide to buy our own private transport .. Diesel and petrol prices continue to raise ..
So either way we are on the losing end.
Only the government is on the recieving end. Thats why I don't like it.
Let's not said that .. We wan service we pay for it .. But it's pretty ridiculous that the prices and fares are increasing so crazy.
Its supposed to be public transport. But then it like become "the government earning device." So many people use it everyday.
It's more of a one way street thingy now ..
Sigh. travel by bike better.
That's a good choice then sg gonna be like Vietnam ..