US taxpayers have to bear few trillions more debts
-
What does all the above text mean?
-
know how Fan's work
http://www.freddiemac.com/news/pdf/fm_ataglance.pdf
dunt cheat by ''Sub prime''.
The crisis is actually Low down payment or NO down payment.
Loan orginators,like banks, or End lender,like Fan's,cannot cushion
any falls in prices and up in default.Simple.The gearing is too high,
Fan's gets $1 capital and gurantee mortgage of $60 plus interest.
i strongly recommend this site full of US data
grandfather report
-
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/
http://creativecapitalism.typepad.com/creative_capitalism/2008/07/our-creative-mo.html
U really dunt believe it happened in US.But it really did happen there.
How can the US taxpayers pay for the mismanaged pitfalls of these 2
'' private owned associations ''??
Little wonder with gains privatized and losses socialized that the enterprises have gambled their way into financial catastrophe.
-
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/07/on-fannie-and-freddie.html
-
Very funny leh.
Why you guys like to kaypoh so much about USA har ?
In Singapore , you got nothing to worry about issit ?
USA subprime or simi debt , why you so worried ?
People are not starving or dying or getting oppressed here in the USA .
Why don't you go worry about the thousands or millions of people elsewhere suffering more bigger problems ?
-
Ice cannot freeze to 3 feet overnight.
pl read WSJ old news for Fan's.
Fan's made serious mistake by inderstated profits in 2003.
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={74DABC67-B059-465E-AF68-6DB22EB961CD}
Mankiw's remarks to the Conference of State Bank Supervisors come as the administration and lawmakers push to overhaul the regulatory framework for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which earlier this year admitted to understating its profit by $4.5 billion. See full story.
The Figures tell its all
Guaranteed Mortgages
Fannie Mae's exposure to the housing market has soared. Its outstanding guaranteed mortgages tripled from 1998 to 2007.
LEFT:Guaranteed Mortgages
Fannie Mae's exposure to the housing market has soared. Its outstanding guaranteed mortgages tripled from 1998 to 2007.
RIGHT:Delinquency Rates
The delinquency rate on Fannie Mae mortgages is rising. This increases the chance that the company will have to make good on its guarantees.
1 % of 5 trillion is 50 billion.u have to add on the interest of say
5 % pa and the loss in principal after foreclousers sales.
Remember the down payment is very low.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/07/11/business/20080711_FANNIE_GRAPHIC.html
What Are the Consequences of a Government Bailout?
Paying for Losses
A bailout would potentially put taxpayers on the hook for billions to offset Fannie's and Freddie's losses.
National Debt
It would most likely make it more expensive for the United States government to borrow money in the future, since the government's potential obligations, which currently stand at about $9 trillion, would rise by an additional $5 trillion.
Investors Suffer
Shares of Fannie and Freddie would probably be worth little or nothing,
Get Profits.I pocket.
Get loss.U pay.
or
Get profits.Capitalism.
Get loss.Socialism.
-
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Very funny leh.
Why you guys like to kaypoh so much about USA har ?
In Singapore , you got nothing to worry about issit ?
USA subprime or simi debt , why you so worried ?
People are not starving or dying or getting oppressed here in the USA .
Why don't you go worry about the thousands or millions of people elsewhere suffering more bigger problems ?
Some low level life form have to resort to bad mouthing others in order to make themselves look good.
He can't bad mouth Australia, so he change to US.
If you have a colleague that makes you look bad in front of your boss, so that he can look good, you will get the idea.
Also seeks to direct attention from the problems faced by Singapore.
Like what John Travolta said in "Swordfish":
Gabriel: Have you ever heard of Harry Houdini? Well he wasn't like today's magicians who are only interested in television ratings. He was an artist. He could make an elephant disappear in the middle of a theater filled with people, and do you know how he did that? Misdirection.
-
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Some low level life form have to resort to bad mouthing others in order to make themselves look good.
He can't bad mouth Australia, so he change to US.
If you have a colleague that makes you look bad in front of your boss, so that he can look good, you will get the idea.
Also seeks to direct attention from the problems faced by Singapore.
Like what John Travolta said in "Swordfish":
Gabriel: Have you ever heard of Harry Houdini? Well he wasn't like today's magicians who are only interested in television ratings. He was an artist. He could make an elephant disappear in the middle of a theater filled with people, and do you know how he did that? Misdirection.
Yah lor... very boh liao lor...
They bad mouth other countries also useless mah...
They should be looking at what the SG gahmen is doing to their money instead.
-
Bad mouth or good mouth.The most important is true mouth.
U cant talk down SG or US gavaman.u have Freedom of expression,
but not freedom of consequence.
I am here to share some info.Have u known before?
If so,why not share here.
1.Take note.US gavaman may not be liable for Fan's debts!!
Dunt trust me.Trust
GREGORY MANKIW,
Chairman of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mankiw/files/fanfred_ft.pdf
The privileges feed a market perception that GSE debt is backed by the US government. This is inaccurate - the charters do not require the federal government to bail out a troubled GSE.
2.Besides,Fan's shareholders enjoied a net 33 basic point,compared with other financial institutions.
OMG!!33 basic point time 5,000,000 million=US$15 billion per year!!
Share holders and excutives pocket all profits.
But in lossing money,US tax payers pick up the chit!!
What a wanderful biz model.
Can u tell me any avaliable in SG??
the interest rate on the debt of Fannie and Freddie
averaged 40 basis points below that on comparable securities....the subsidy lowers mortgage rates by 7 basis points,
with the rest of the subsidy going to executive compensation and shareholder profits.
3.what private company it is?Financial Times, February 24, 2004
Keeping Fannie and Freddie's houses in order
By GREGORY MANKIWBy charter, the housing GSEs enjoy privileges including exemption from state and local income taxes and from Securities and Exchange Commission registration and disclosure requirements.
The US Treasury is authorised to extend limited credit to them and some of their directors are appointed by the president. The direct monetary benefit from these privileges is modest but their symbolic value is significant.
-
Fan's dunt help the market.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB107214383067617000.html?mod=Extra
Economist Wayne Passmore dug through the numbers and found that the perception that the government will rescue the two companies in a pinch gives them a 40-basis-point funding advantage over private competitors. In today's cutthroat financial marketplace, this is huge. Mr. Passmore calculates that this "implicit subsidy" is worth somewhere between $119 billion and $164 billion, or between 42% and 81% of their entire market value. In other words, taxpayers are making Fannie executives and shareholders rich.
2.Core capital of Fan's just a fraction of FDIC-insured commercial banks'Unforecastable Shock'
By WILLIAM POOLE
March 12, 2003Capital on the books of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is well below the levels required of regulated depository institutions. The capital adequacy standards applying to these two GSEs were established by the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992. The core capital requirement is 2.5% of on-balance sheet assets and 0.45% of outstanding mortgage-backed securities and other off-balance sheet obligations. The off-balance sheet obligations have a capital requirement because they are guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie.
In the private sector, government securities dealers carry capital in the neighborhood of 5%, and other financial firms considerably more. For example, FDIC-insured commercial banks hold equity capital and subordinated debt of a bit under 11% of total assets. Reports issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the recent OFHEO report on Systemic Risk, indicate that the two firms employ state-of-the-art risk management. Nevertheless, my sense is that the firms are vulnerable to nonquantifiable risks, because their capital positions are so low.
Today, the housing finance system is heavily concentrated. Just three firms -- Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae -- account for over 40% of the residential mortgage market. Ginnie Mae is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not so backed, and hold capital far below that required of regulated banking institutions. Should either firm be rocked by a mistake or by an unforecastable shock, in the absence of robust contingency arrangements the result could be a crisis in U.S. financial markets that would inflict considerable damage.
Mr. Poole is president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. This is an excerpt from a speech he gave in Washington on Monday. The full version may be found at the bank's Web site.
3.What will happen if Uncle Sam deny liability of Fan's?
Former White Chief Economist(my today posting)and
then Fed Chief said
Fan's not back by US gavaman few years ago,not now.
Will PRC send war ships to US west coast and paint
O$P$?
If US gavaman accept the liability,will they be treated as treason,
since there is no explicit liabilty on Uncle Sam.
If US deny Fan's liability and PRC sue ,
how US judge rule is very interesting!!
4. Fan's ''books of business'' 4.9 trillions is official or equal to
total publicly held debt of the U.S. government
The devil is left out of balance sheet!!
These balance sheets leave out the mortgage-backed securities that the enterprises created and sold directly to outside investors, for which the enterprises have issued off-balance-sheet guarantees for payment. The OFHEO 2008 Annual Report to Congress states that Freddie had sold $1,381.9 billion in MBS and Fannie $2,118.9 billion.
If you add together the mortgages retained outright by Fannie and Freddie (either as whole loans or MBS) plus the MBS that they have sold to others and offer a guarantee for payment, the OFHEO calculates a total "book of business" for the two enterprises of $4,934.4 billion as of the end of 2007, slightly less than the total publicly held debt of the U.S. government. Fannie and Freddie's combined stockholders' equity amounts to 1.4% of their total book of business.
http://www.ofheo.gov/media/annualreports/ReporttoCongress2008.pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.pdf
-
this link looks good
http://mostlyeconomics.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/understanding-the-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-mess/
-
EXTRA http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121599777668249845.html?mod=Commentary-US <!-- var copyrightUrl = CopyrightPopUp.toString(); //--> <!-- copyrightUrl = copyrightUrl.substring(copyrightUrl.indexOf('OpenWin("')+9,copyrightUrl.indexOf('orderSource=wsj.com')+19); if(djTypeArticleArray != null && djTypeArticleArray.FREE_ARTICLES_WITH_DJTYPE_FALSE != null){ var djTypeArticles = djTypeArticleArray.FREE_ARTICLES_WITH_DJTYPE_FALSE.split('~'); var metatags = document.getElementsByTagName('META'); var article_displayname = ""; var setDJType = true; for (var i = 0; i < metatags.length; i++){ if (metatags[i].name == 'displayname') { article_displayname = metatags[i].content; break; } } for(var i=0; i<djTypeArticles.length && article_displayname != ""; i++){ if(djTypeArticles[i] == article_displayname){ setDJType = false; break; } } if(!setDJType){ copyrightUrl = copyrightUrl.replace("&DJType=true","&DJType=false"); } } function CopyrightPopUp(){ OpenWin(copyrightUrl,"reprints",515,440,"scroll,resizable",true); } // -->
Fannie Mayhem: A History
July 14, 2008
• Paulson's Fannie Test 07/15/08 – Does Hank Paulson want to leave the U.S. financial system better than he found it? That's his test in the wake of his commitment to use taxpayer money to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fannie Mae Ugly 07/12/08 – Investors continued to flee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac almost as frantically as the political class tried to reassure everybody there was nothing to worry about.
• The Price of Fannie Mae 07/10/08 – It's time Americans understood the price they could soon pay for the Beltway's confidence game with these high-risk "government-sponsored enterprises."
• Too Political to Fail 04/21/08 – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac aren't held to the same standards of accountability as everyone else.
• Fannie Mayhem 11/20/07 – Chuck Schumer is lucky Congress ignored his idea that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should ride to the rescue of the housing market.
• Fannie More 10/23/07 – Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer have come up with a proposal that would increase the risk to taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Freddie Krueger Mac 05/10/07 – Just when you think they're defeated, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac arise in Congress to kill any attempt to clean up their dangerous habits.
• The Fannie Tax 04/12/07 – Democrat Barney Frank and the Bush Administration seem to have found common ground on new rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Naturally, there's a catch.
• Memo to Fannie 06/14/06 – A joke in Washington these days goes like this: "What's the difference between Enron and Fannie Mae? Answer: The guys at Enron have been convicted."
• Freddie's Friends on the Hill 04/27/06 – The Federal Election Commission sheds some light on how Freddie Mac rewards its friends.
• Fannie Mae's House 10/25/05 – Every Congressional session can be counted on to produce its share of bad bills. But the "reform" bill for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is in a class of its own.
• Fannie's Friends on the Hill 05/09/05 – Congress finally seemed ready to protect taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then Republican Mike Oxley decided to ride to their rescue.
• Fannie Turns a Page 12/23/04 – Fannie Mae – a slick, semiprivate firm operating with the patronage of politicians – is the kind of institution one still expects to find in a country like France.
• Fannie the Centaur 12/17/04 – Understanding their half-man, half-beast nature is crucial to fixing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the wake of their recent financial scandals.
• Fannie Mae Liberals 10/14/04 – There were many moments of high entertainment during the House hearings on Fannie Mae's creative accounting. But our favorite was the Mister Magoo performance given by Barney Frank (D., Massachusetts).
• Fannie Uncovered 09/23/04 – The housing-finance giant has been engaging in some accounting funny business.
• Fannie's Risky Business 02/25/04 – Alan Greenspan puts his credibility behind the cause of reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Christmas for Fannie Mae 12/23/03 – The Federal Reserve Board releases a new staff study about the impact of taxpayer subsidies for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• White House Fannie Pack 11/11/03 – White House chief economist N. Gregory Mankiw dares to tell the truth about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The mortgage giants were not amused, which means we're getting somewhere.
• Fannie Takes the Hill 10/09/03 – When the House of Representatives can't get even a modest regulatory bill out of committee, the dangers of Fannie Mae become clear in reality.
• Speaking Truth to Fannie 03/12/03 – The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis warns of a potential crisis arising from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
• Fan and Fred Get the Business 02/19/03 – The year has not started auspiciously for the two mortgage-finance behemoths.
• Fannie Mae's Risky Business 09/23/02 – We've been suggesting that Fannie Mae was exposed to too much interest-rate risk. All of a sudden investors seem to agree with us.
• Fannie Capitulates, Sort Of 07/15/02 – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac end months of resistance, stonewalling and downright crankiness and agree to register their common stock with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
• Fannie's Inside Info 07/01/02 – Even in this post-Enron world, Fan and Fred do not provide as much information about these securities as private mortgage lenders do.
• Inside Fannie 03/19/02 – Fan and Fred don't function like other companies. They're allowed to pile up debt, implicitly guaranteed by taxpayers, without being held to even the minimum of corporate governance standards.
• Frantic Fannie 02/28/02 – Companies taking on so much risk and debt, and backed by taxpayers, ought to be more transparent in what they tell the world.
• Fannie Mae Enron? 02/20/02 – Fan and Fred look like poorly run hedge funds: lots of leverage and snarkily hedged risk. Does the word Enron ring any bells?
See all of today's editorials and op-eds, plus video commentary, on Opinion Journal. end of quote
Where is the hell of IMF who like to giving people advices?
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http://www.acorn.org/
NGO help people fullfil American Dream,later turn into nightmare!!
http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22251&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12340&cHash=e988c5913e
Landmark ACORN Foreclosure Bill Becomes Law in California -
Just 5 % of default in subprime and they suggest u walk away from mortgage
if u holding negative assets.
1.So far subprime has been surprisingly resilient. Subprime delinquencies climbed to a peak of 5.48% of loans' original balance last February but have since been trending down to a still-high 5%, according to Moody's Investors Service.
"People who take out 95% or 100% LTV loans do it because they don't have a down payment and they're willing to pay a higher interest rate and higher mortgage insurance costs to get that loan," says consultant Davidson. "If home prices fall, and they have a loan that's greater than the value of their home, the prudent thing to do is walk away"-and let the lender repossess the home.
high loan-to-value (LTV)
http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=8691&tx_ttnews[swords]=ocwen&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=8853&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12017&cHash=8679e637b3
-
Here,u can see almost every body refinancing
and subprime play one third in ABS market
A leaner 2003
Just about everybody expects MBS issue volume to subside in 2003. After all, how many Americans are left who haven't refinanced?
The Mortgage Bankers Association forecasts mortgage originations to fall 27% this year, to $1.77 trillion. That's down from a record $2.42 trillion last year and $2.1 trillion in 2001. As sharp as such a decline would be, the total would still be the third-highest ever.
Mortgage-backed securities issuance is bound to follow this downward trend. Last year, residential MBS issuance hit $718 billion, up from only $137 billion in 2000, according to Thomson. But the fourth quarter looked weak, with only $178 billion compared with $217 billion during the third quarter-the strongest quarter in two years. The subprime market also had a boom year, with $156 billion in issuance, capturing 34% of the ABS market. But unlike MBS, subprime kept mounting in the fourth quarter to $45 billion, the strongest quarter in the past two years.
-
Wall of text O.O
-
Wall of text is basically lionnoisy's way of avoiding having to answer to questions being posed to him as well as some form of self-denial that people will actually bother to read all this.
Basically he's like a person who does not believe in talk, but simply in shouting his point across as many times as possible and drowning out all possible replies.
But don't worry, two can play this game.
Bad mouth or good mouth.The most important is true mouth.
It's amazing he says this, given if he's so interested in being a bearer of truth it's interesting he needs to resort to deception to do this, mainly in the use of clones.
Note that despite questioning him across MANY threads, topics and posts, lionnoisy has NEVER dared to anwer to the makepeace clone incident.
The lion is suddenly not so noisy about this.
So what is this incident?
Let's see:
-
MAKEPEACE, MAKE CLONES?
A REPORT ON ATTEMPTED ASTROTURFING AND SOCKPUPPETING BY LIONNOISY
a lion puppet
For those who wondered what happened.
Lionnoisy created a clone called "makepeace" which he used in speakers corner to further his own agenda, trying to give people the impression that there are others out there that would agree with him.
Unfortunately he did a very poor job of hiding it.
This kind of behaviour is called sockpuppeting, ie. creating a false online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company.
A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an Internet community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet.[1]
In current usage, the perception of the term has been extended beyond second identities of people who already post in a forum to include other uses of misleading online identities. For example, a NY Times article claims that "sock-puppeting" is defined as "the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company."[2]
The key difference between a sockpuppet and a regular pseudonym (sometimes termed an "alt") is the pretense that the puppet is a third party who is not affiliated with the puppeteer.
To "flame wars" and "phishing" we can now add "sock puppet." A sock puppet, for those still boning up, is a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet. Recently, a senior editor at The New Republic got in trouble for some particularly colorful sock puppetry.
When Lee Siegel began blogging for The New Republic, he found, as many others have, that Internet posters tend to be fairly outspoken — and a good number of the posters on the blog were harshly critical. An exception was ''sprezzatura,'' who regularly offered extravagant praise. After Mr. Siegel was criticized for his writing about Jon Stewart, host of ''The Daily Show,'' sprezzatura wrote: ''Siegel is brave, brilliant and wittier than Stewart will ever be. Take that, you bunch of immature, abusive sheep.'' A reader charged that sprezzatura was in fact Mr. Siegel, but sprezzatura denied it.
The reader turned out to be right. ...
After making some lame and hasty excuse about his account being hacked, lionnoisy suddenly abandoned all this threads in which him being sockpuppeting was being mentioned. Unfortunately his excuse cannot stand up to logic as he was seen responding to and talking back TO HIS OWN ACCOUNT.
This is what happened:
29th April 0932hrs a "user" called "makepeace" that had never posted before created a lionnoisy-sounding titled thread called "Oz Judge ban TV drama & interview glorify gangland wars "
Already suspisions were raised because the structure and phrasing of the title was signature of lionnoisy. The first post by this "makepeace" was as such:
Originally posted by makepeace:
Oz Supreme Judge Justice Betty King
bans TV drama serices & interviews
glorifying those in the gangland war.The bans to prevent
jurors to be affected while the trial of a murder case is in progress.
U hardly expect democratic and free country like Oz will
ban TV programmes .Right?
U wont know TV programmes on Oz gangsters
are so hot there.Right?
u wont know ganglang wars there also so frequent.Right?
1.Judge cuts down(TV) Nine's Underbelly
Milanda Rout | February 12, 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23200497-7582,00.html
2.Judge bans 'crime mums' interview
Peter Gregory | April 22, 2008
Barbara Williams and Judith Moran,
the mothers of defendant Evangelos Goussis
and the widow of the murdered Lewis Moran
respectively,were interviewed.
Its damn interesting that this news was under
Entertainment section!!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/entertainment/judge-bans-underbelly-report/2008/04/21/1208742836107.html?s_cid=rss_news
3.The Morgan family----the story of the murdered
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/moran.family.htm
4.The story of the Boss ,Carl Williams,behind the killing
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/carl.williams.htm
5.u can learn more by seraching Justice Betty King
in www.yahoo.com.au
6.Questions
A.Why the media want to air the interview while the trial
is still on?
B.How are the gang activities in Down Under?
C.Am i look like anti--Oz?
D.How true are the postings in 3 and 4 listed above.
i dunt expect the there are so many details about
Oz gangsters.Can any one tell me more?
Note that other then for the user name, this post is virtually indistinguishable from the countless of other lionnoisy posts we can compare it with. The excessive reliance on the media, posting of hyperlinks, using warped logic that takes issues out of their context, and most tellingly the horrible english which make typos and grammatical errors right down to what lionnoisy would EXACTLY make is exactly what you'd expect from lionnoisy.
Hence lionnoisy must have been someone disappointed because after 20 minutes still nobody bothered to reply to his post under makepeace. Hence he decided to bump his own thread.
But after a few lackluster replies, he finally decided to "talk" to makepeace
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
3.The Morgan family----the story of the murdered
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/moran.family.htm
4.The story of the Boss ,Carl Williams,behind the killing
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/carl.williams.htm
I cant believe there are so many killings
in the above links !!!
More excited than Holloywood movies!!
Note the bad acting, where he pretended to be "excited" and "surprised" about what he wrote himself.
Now this is the funny part, if his account was really hacked as he claimed it to be, he would certainly not be replying back to his "hacked" account so happily in such a way.
But in any case when he was exposed he made this very funny, frantic and desperate post trying to suddenly divorce himself from the actions of his sockpuppetry by claiming he was hacked. Unfortunately all a basic look at the thread will reveal what really happened, and that is nothing other then lionnoisy was caught red-handed sockpuppeting.
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Why did u check IP and English of forumers?
i just know my acct has been hijacked and u post it!!
It seems u are faster than me?Looks so strange!!
Looks like it is a cyber crime and /or frame up.
Hv anyone(u know who i mean) hacked into my e mails and computers ?
Do i have to hire armed guards to stay outside my
pigeon hole?
I am seeking helps from ISD,CIA,FBI,MI 5 and 6,
PRC Kong Ang, etc to check who hijack my acct
and make me appearing as ''makepeace'' after
i click submit.How safe in this forum??
I will buy you Ya Kun coffee if your info can lead to
catch the criminal,
Forums owners and mods are hereby notified my formal ,written and distressing complaints to cyber crimes!!
Another paethetic, and desperate reply from him when he was cornered:
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
oh it is good.Then can help me saving time to see counsellors How to get rid of computers addicts!!bye
Those who want to see what happened can go here:
http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/315326
And some screencaps, so the evidence is preserved:
"mysterous" makepeace appears:
and of course his own excited and poorly acted "reply" to his own clone.
and his own desperate and feeble attempts to wriggle out of the situtation:
LOL, what a joker!
-
A sock puppet is an additional OnlineIdentity used by someone who already has another OnlineIdentity for participating in a given community, particularly when done in a non-transparent manner and where the identities interact with each other in some way. The term originates with the metaphor of carrying on a conversation with oneself using a puppet in each hand.
Deception
Use of a SockPuppet is typically frowned on. The social convention against sock puppets arises from the RealWorld. We do not expect to discover that the guy who runs the coffee shop is also our neighbour, but with a fake mustache and beard. In most communities there is at least a social expectation, and sometimes a site policy, that each person will use only a single identity. Thus, use of sock puppets is a DeceptivePractice.
A PenName (or anonymous posting) is about discretionary exposure of personally identifying information, and doesn't exclude the possibility of participating with a measure of integrity since discretion and deception are not at all the same thing. It is fair to expect that we all exercise a certain measure of discretion, but it is hoped that we do not engage in intentional deception. A SockPuppet, on the other hand, is dishonestly represented as being a unique individual, distinct from the existing identities already in use in the community.
Uses
By using several Sock Puppets all posting in favour of an idea, a dishonest person can give the impression that the idea has more grass-roots support than it really has. See also StuffingTheBallotBox, which is a similar problem in a more formal, voting context. Sock puppets make it harder to enforce "one man, one vote."
Sock puppet identities are disruptive in conversation because they are often used so that a person can ask questions of himself and appear to be carrying on a thread between two individuals.
Originally posted by makepeace:
Oz Supreme Judge Justice Betty King
bans TV drama serices & interviews
glorifying those in the gangland war.The bans to prevent
jurors to be affected while the trial of a murder case is in progress.
U hardly expect democratic and free country like Oz will
ban TV programmes .Right?
U wont know TV programmes on Oz gangsters
are so hot there.Right?
u wont know ganglang wars there also so frequent.Right?
1.Judge cuts down(TV) Nine's Underbelly
Milanda Rout | February 12, 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23200497-7582,00.html
2.Judge bans 'crime mums' interview
Peter Gregory | April 22, 2008
Barbara Williams and Judith Moran,
the mothers of defendant Evangelos Goussis
and the widow of the murdered Lewis Moran
respectively,were interviewed.
Its damn interesting that this news was under
Entertainment section!!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/entertainment/judge-bans-underbelly-report/2008/04/21/1208742836107.html?s_cid=rss_news
3.The Morgan family----the story of the murdered
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/moran.family.htm
4.The story of the Boss ,Carl Williams,behind the killing
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/carl.williams.htm
5.u can learn more by seraching Justice Betty King
in www.yahoo.com.au
6.Questions
A.Why the media want to air the interview while the trial
is still on?
B.How are the gang activities in Down Under?
C.Am i look like anti--Oz?
D.How true are the postings in 3 and 4 listed above.
i dunt expect the there are so many details about
Oz gangsters.Can any one tell me more?
Inventors: lionnoisy:
makepeace, a clone of lionnoisy to support himself
MAKEPEACE, MAKE CLONES?
A REPORT ON ATTEMPTED ASTROTURFING AND SOCKPUPPETING BY LIONNOISY
a lion puppet
For those who wondered what happened.
Lionnoisy created a clone called "makepeace" which he used in speakers corner to further his own agenda, trying to give people the impression that there are others out there that would agree with him.
Unfortunately he did a very poor job of hiding it.
-
Crimes Against the Forum
CLONING!
a lion puppet
For those who wondered what happened.
Lionnoisy created a clone called "makepeace" which he used in speakers corner to further his own agenda, trying to give people the impression that there are others out there that would agree with him.
Unfortunately he did a very poor job of hiding it.
This kind of behaviour is called sockpuppeting, ie. creating a false online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company.
A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an Internet community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet.[1]
In current usage, the perception of the term has been extended beyond second identities of people who already post in a forum to include other uses of misleading online identities. For example, a NY Times article claims that "sock-puppeting" is defined as "the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company."[2]
The key difference between a sockpuppet and a regular pseudonym (sometimes termed an "alt") is the pretense that the puppet is a third party who is not affiliated with the puppeteer.
To "flame wars" and "phishing" we can now add "sock puppet." A sock puppet, for those still boning up, is a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet. Recently, a senior editor at The New Republic got in trouble for some particularly colorful sock puppetry.
When Lee Siegel began blogging for The New Republic, he found, as many others have, that Internet posters tend to be fairly outspoken — and a good number of the posters on the blog were harshly critical. An exception was ''sprezzatura,'' who regularly offered extravagant praise. After Mr. Siegel was criticized for his writing about Jon Stewart, host of ''The Daily Show,'' sprezzatura wrote: ''Siegel is brave, brilliant and wittier than Stewart will ever be. Take that, you bunch of immature, abusive sheep.'' A reader charged that sprezzatura was in fact Mr. Siegel, but sprezzatura denied it.
The reader turned out to be right. ...
After making some lame and hasty excuse about his account being hacked, lionnoisy suddenly abandoned all this threads in which him being sockpuppeting was being mentioned. Unfortunately his excuse cannot stand up to logic as he was seen responding to and talking back TO HIS OWN ACCOUNT.
This is what happened:
29th April 0932hrs a "user" called "makepeace" that had never posted before created a lionnoisy-sounding titled thread called "Oz Judge ban TV drama & interview glorify gangland wars "
Already suspisions were raised because the structure and phrasing of the title was signature of lionnoisy. The first post by this "makepeace" was as such:
Originally posted by makepeace:
Oz Supreme Judge Justice Betty King
bans TV drama serices & interviews
glorifying those in the gangland war.The bans to prevent
jurors to be affected while the trial of a murder case is in progress.
U hardly expect democratic and free country like Oz will
ban TV programmes .Right?
U wont know TV programmes on Oz gangsters
are so hot there.Right?
u wont know ganglang wars there also so frequent.Right?
1.Judge cuts down(TV) Nine's Underbelly
Milanda Rout | February 12, 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23200497-7582,00.html
2.Judge bans 'crime mums' interview
Peter Gregory | April 22, 2008
Barbara Williams and Judith Moran,
the mothers of defendant Evangelos Goussis
and the widow of the murdered Lewis Moran
respectively,were interviewed.
Its damn interesting that this news was under
Entertainment section!!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/entertainment/judge-bans-underbelly-report/2008/04/21/1208742836107.html?s_cid=rss_news
3.The Morgan family----the story of the murdered
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/moran.family.htm
4.The story of the Boss ,Carl Williams,behind the killing
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/carl.williams.htm
5.u can learn more by seraching Justice Betty King
in www.yahoo.com.au
6.Questions
A.Why the media want to air the interview while the trial
is still on?
B.How are the gang activities in Down Under?
C.Am i look like anti--Oz?
D.How true are the postings in 3 and 4 listed above.
i dunt expect the there are so many details about
Oz gangsters.Can any one tell me more?
Note that other then for the user name, this post is virtually indistinguishable from the countless of other lionnoisy posts we can compare it with. The excessive reliance on the media, posting of hyperlinks, using warped logic that takes issues out of their context, and most tellingly the horrible english which make typos and grammatical errors right down to what lionnoisy would EXACTLY make is exactly what you'd expect from lionnoisy.
Hence lionnoisy must have been someone disappointed because after 20 minutes still nobody bothered to reply to his post under makepeace. Hence he decided to bump his own thread.
But after a few lackluster replies, he finally decided to "talk" to makepeace
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
3.The Morgan family----the story of the murdered
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/moran.family.htm
4.The story of the Boss ,Carl Williams,behind the killing
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/carl.williams.htm
I cant believe there are so many killings
in the above links !!!
More excited than Holloywood movies!!
Note the bad acting, where he pretended to be "excited" and "surprised" about what he wrote himself.
Now this is the funny part, if his account was really hacked as he claimed it to be, he would certainly not be replying back to his "hacked" account so happily in such a way.
But in any case when he was exposed he made this very funny, frantic and desperate post trying to suddenly divorce himself from the actions of his sockpuppetry by claiming he was hacked. Unfortunately all a basic look at the thread will reveal what really happened, and that is nothing other then lionnoisy was caught red-handed sockpuppeting.
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Why did u check IP and English of forumers?
i just know my acct has been hijacked and u post it!!
It seems u are faster than me?Looks so strange!!
Looks like it is a cyber crime and /or frame up.
Hv anyone(u know who i mean) hacked into my e mails and computers ?
Do i have to hire armed guards to stay outside my
pigeon hole?
I am seeking helps from ISD,CIA,FBI,MI 5 and 6,
PRC Kong Ang, etc to check who hijack my acct
and make me appearing as ''makepeace'' after
i click submit.How safe in this forum??
I will buy you Ya Kun coffee if your info can lead to
catch the criminal,
Forums owners and mods are hereby notified my formal ,written and distressing complaints to cyber crimes!!
Another paethetic, and desperate reply from him when he was cornered:
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
oh it is good.Then can help me saving time to see counsellors How to get rid of computers addicts!!bye
Those who want to see what happened can go here:
http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/315326
And some screencaps, so the evidence is preserved:
"mysterous" makepeace appears:
and of course his own excited and poorly acted "reply" to his own clone.
and his own desperate and feeble attempts to wriggle out of the situtation: -
even 3 % down is too high!
http://www.hud.gov/news/release.cfm?content=pr06-088.cfm
The Expanding American Homeownership Act will:
1) Eliminate the current statutory three percent minimum down payment, reducing a significant barrier to homeownership. FHA’s existing down payment requirement does not meet the demands of today’s marketplace, where most first-time homebuyers put down two percent or less. The "new” FHA would offer a variety of down payment options.
3) Increase and simplify FHA’s loan limits. FHA’s loan limit in high-cost areas would rise from 87 to 100 percent of the GSE conforming loan limit and in lower-cost areas from 48 to 65 percent of the conforming loan limit. This change is crucial in today’s housing market
-
Tsk tsk..
Lionverynoisy.... you make so much noise only show how little knowledge you have about the overseas market.
Get out of that tiny cage and go see what else is out there.
You are really making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Yes, the US market is currently correcting - post subprime. That is a good thing.
The only people that are affected are the ones who bought houses during the subprime bubble, and those who took up subprime borrowings.
You are comparing a small sampan(sg) vs a big cruise ship (USA).
-
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Tsk tsk..
Lionverynoisy.... you make so much noise only show how little knowledge you have about the overseas market.
Get out of that tiny cage and go see what else is out there.
You are really making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Yes, the US market is currently correcting - post subprime. That is a good thing.
The only people that are affected are the ones who bought houses during the subprime bubble, and those who took up subprime borrowings.
You are comparing a small sampan(sg) vs a big cruise ship (USA).
WHAT IS SUBPRIME
What is defintion of sub prime loan--by income of the borrowers?,
or their income vs long term instalement ration(not teaser rate pl)?
or loan to value ratio?
RE FINANCE PARTY IS OVER
A general feature is many pple just refinance their house
in the past 20 years to pay off their debts(credit card,
car loan etc)and repay by mortgage.
But with the property started to drop from 3Q 2006,the party is going
to stand down....
Figure 2: Monthly House Price Index for Seasonally�Adjusted Index, January 1991
to May 2008
http://www.ofheo.gov/media/hpi/MonthlyHPI72208F.pdf
http://www.ofheo.gov/hpi.aspx?Nav=335
-
Remember Fannie Mae's is using $1 to bear $65 debt
They sell the debts AND gurantee the principal of debt
and interest for the term of the mortgage !!
In the falling property market,it is very difficult to sell !!
