Originally posted by Dezhou:Fat lie or not. At least we know the Iraqis now at least have the chance to recieve proper education, safer neighbourhood and freedom.
No one is perfect, same goes to US for making such accusations that turned out to be false. But because of this war, you are able to differentiate the real threat the world is now facing, that is terrorism. People die its inevitable, but the sacrifice made can save x times the lives of their future generation of Iraqis.
Just look at China, they are even preparing for a terrorise attack drill for the Olympics.
how do you know that the iraqis are better off with the american occupation? American propoganda...
But because of this war, you are able to differentiate the real threat the world is now facing, that is terrorism.
The real threat is USA.
Not terrorism.
Don't be hoodwinked by USA propaganda.
No one is perfect, same goes to US for making such accusations that turned out to be false.
USA lied so as to provide propaganda pretext for war.
This must be made clear.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Is that a joke?
So your trying to say they were actually living a better life before the war?
Originally posted by Dezhou:So your trying to say they were actually living a better life before the war?
yes...
So your trying to say they were actually living a better life before the war?
What do you think?
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Ya, xtreyier, since you wish war against Iran, what are your views on a bomber dropping a bomb on your house and your family members inside all killed?
Make sure they get to stay in a bunker first?
Seriously, if you don't mind paying high price for oil, and continue paying higher oil price and the subsequent increases in everything, by all means. I am not stopping you or anyone else. Some people in Singapore are rich enough to pay and even use money to light up their ciggerettes, and don't give a damn on the suffering of others.
What i am doing is for other billions around the world including my fellow citizens who are made to suffer such increases. Why should oil, a staple, which is sustainable at $60/barrel by OPEC, should peak at $147/b and even soon to $200/b?
While we still have strength to fight, we better do so before we are all starved to death. By December 08, if we do nothing, it will be too late as the price increases in everything else will make many, not only me, begging on the streets and depend on charities. Entire national treasuries can be wiped out by those who do not own oil as a natural reserves, and agricultural food producing countries will fight back by raising their prices.
The world produces 17billion of barrels a day. Assuming Iran ordered through intermediaries the entire lot of 14.5 billion at $80/b then, ( less their production) on Jun 07, it will only cost Iran only US$34billion for that month's output. Others will have no oil and scream, or pay higher, which Iran will then sell at $90/b. The world will pay, as they need it.
Subsequently, each month, Iran uses its reserves of est US$250billion to take control of output. Iran never loses, for it continues to sell at higher prices each day, and making more. Even if other Opec countries try to sell cheap, Iran just buy them all up, say thank you Opec, and sell back to the market at higher prices. Thus, the anomaly unprecedented spike within a few short month!
If you cannot see the linkages, then I can't help you. But others will.
Originally posted by xtreyier:Make sure they get to stay in a bunker first?
Seriously, if you don't mind paying high price for oil, and continue paying higher oil price and the subsequent increases in everything, by all means. I am not stopping you or anyone else. Some people in Singapore are rich enough to pay and even use money to light up their ciggerettes.
What i am doing is for other billions around the world including my fellow citizens who are made to suffer such increases. Why should oil, a staple, which is sustainable at $60/barrel by OPEC, should peak at $147/b and even soon to $200/b?
While we still have strength to fight, we better do so before we are all starved to death. By December 08, if we do nothing, it will be too late as the price increases in everything else will make many begging on the streets and depend on charities.
The world produces 17billion of barrels a day. Assuming Iran ordered thru intermediaries the entire lot of 14.5 billion at $80/b then, ( less their production) on Jun 07, it will only cost Iran only US$34billion for that month's output. Others will have no oil and scream, or pay higher, which Iran will then sell at $90/b. They will pay, as they need it.
Subsequently, each month, Iran uses its reserves of est US$250billion to take control of output. Iran never loses, for it continues to sell at higher prices each day, and making more. Thus, the anomaly spike within a short month!
If you cannot see the linkages, then I can't help you. But others will.
so, all these JUSTIFIES the way and killing of the innocent?
If you cannot see the linkages, then I can't help you. But others will.
What links?
Originally posted by Dezhou:because like anything in this world, theres a probabilty of X for things to occur. 4D or Iran "manipulating" the oil prices these are probability. So what difference does it have, by using 4D as an analogy?
no it iznt... if u say iran is manipulating oil prices, you need to have proof... and u have to abandon ur allegations when u find that ur "proofs" are flawed..In the least u need to find out the motive for ur allegations.ie. Whats in it for the iranians if they disrupt world oil supply.
4D is a purely chance play. Nth more
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:What do you think?
So your point is that the single web link is the solid proof that Iraqis is being "murdered" by the US because of invasion? That website provides no information, on who killed the Iraqis EXCEPT saying that the numbers of death were more than what was announced ever since the war began. HELLO number of deaths doesn't equal murdered by US.
Number of deaths is just a statistic to show the death rate that had increased ever since US step in. Terrorists over there enjoy killing people who believes in different religion did you take into consideration? Or you just take a number of deaths = fault of US? lol so funny
But USA invaded Iraq based on lies.
How?
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/11/former_white_house_former_white_house
http://www.downingstreetmemo.com
Secret US plans for Iraq's oil
USA's War Propaganda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Originally posted by Dezhou:Fat lie or not. At least we know the Iraqis now at least have the chance to recieve proper education, safer neighbourhood and freedom.
No one is perfect, same goes to US for making such accusations that turned out to be false. But because of this war, you are able to differentiate the real threat the world is now facing, that is terrorism. People die its inevitable, but the sacrifice made can save x times the lives of their future generation of Iraqis.
Just look at China, they are even preparing for a terrorise attack drill for the Olympics.
What about the lives of innocent Iraqis that had been lost in the war? Didn't they have the right to say to you they did not deserve to die in exchange of those proper education and freedom as you claimed?
In fact, US invasion of Iraq, if your memory is still good, was Saddam possessing WMDs capable of attacking other nations. UNSCOM entered Iraq, searched for the WMDs and found nothing. The US then went on to 'Go It Alone' with 'Coalition of the Willing', distorted UN resolution, and attacked Iraq. Exact number of US soldiers killed are known but the exact number of Iraqis killed and amputated can only be estimated. Nobody cares to count dead Iraqi bodies. The result was Iraq possessed NO WMDs whatsoever. It was totally cooked up by the US. The war costed not only lives but the US economy, contributing to the current dollar crisis, spiking oil price, and inflation today.
Originally posted by tai gok nang:What about the lives of innocent Iraqis that had been lost in the war? Didn't they have the right to say to you they did not deserve to die in exchange of those proper education and freedom as you claimed?
In fact, US invasion of Iraq, if your memory is still good, was Saddam possessing WMDs capable of attacking other nations. UNSCOM entered Iraq, searched for the WMDs and found nothing. The US then went on to 'Go It Alone' with 'Coalition of the Willing', distorted UN resolution, and attacked Iraq. Exact number of US soldiers killed are known but the exact number of Iraqis killed and amputated can only be estimated. Nobody cares to count dead Iraqi bodies. The result was Iraq possessed NO WMDs whatsoever. It was totally cooked up by the US. The war costed not only lives but the US economy, contributing to the current dollar crisis, spiking oil price, and inflation today.
Shall we stick to Iran? It concerns us all more. The lives of my fellow citizens suffering high oil prices now is more critical.
Originally posted by whiskers:no it iznt... if u say iran is manipulating oil prices, you need to have proof... and u have to abandon ur allegations when u find that ur "proofs" are flawed..In the least u need to find out the motive for ur allegations.ie. Whats in it for the iranians if they disrupt world oil supply.
4D is a purely chance play. Nth more
You want proof?
Who is benifiting the most from Oil sale? The countries that produce oil.
And Iran happens to be one of them and they always been creating troubles for others, just take the dream of having a nuclear plant.
And I have always been saying Iran could be one of the guys casuing the oil hike, none of my comments ever said Iran is 100% the one manipulating it. Chance you know?
Originally posted by whiskers:no it iznt... if u say iran is manipulating oil prices, you need to have proof... and u have to abandon ur allegations when u find that ur "proofs" are flawed..In the least u need to find out the motive for ur allegations.ie. Whats in it for the iranians if they disrupt world oil supply.
4D is a purely chance play. Nth more
By all means, stick to the sidelines. I am not forcing you to support the war on Iran if you do not see the link or able to analyze the issue yourself.
Originally posted by White_SoulReaper:so, all these JUSTIFIES the way and killing of the innocent?
all these JUSTIFIES action to prevent the sufferning of BILLIONS other around the world who will soon starve to death, just because of the mad nuclear ambitions of a few Iranian individuals!
The lives of my fellow citizens suffering high oil prices now is more critical.
Where are you from anyway xtreyier?
Let me take you on a brief chronological journey into the deprivations of the Iranian leadership.
1.) Iran exports 2.5million barrels of oil a day. At $80/b for the last 5 years, each yr they would have a state revenue of $70 billion dollars -US$70,000,000,000 on oil alone. Setting aside $50billion in their treasury, it would mean a war chest of US$250billion to play in manipulation of international affairs.
Social spending is atrocious - WTO rank them 93rd on health care alone. Population of 70million, with an area of 1.6million sq km, there are still slums, beggars and poverty. Thus, much of it's money is not into social spending, but it seems for other nefarious purposes. ( 12million below poverty line)
How they spend their money is their business. Wat has it got to with u ? They wanna spend the money buying trillions of ping pong balls then dumping into the sea has nothing to do with u.
2.) I will not touch on their nuclear ambition debacle for it is already widely known.
3.) The spike in oil prices began in 2005. Oil only average around $40/b but shot up to $50/b. This was also the same time the Bushrer Nuclear Power station in Iran was completed and the row over suspected nuclear weapon production began.
4. )June 2007, oil shot up to $80 and by July 08, it peaked $147/b. At June 07, Talks between Iran and the west over the nuclear weapons issue had broken down.
They build a nuclear power station is their right and their own business. Forcing them to stop building is being nosy and a show of poor human right record. During tis time, US dollars depreciate a lot and everybody points it out including OPEC. But u seems to be oblivion to tis fact.
By April, the world was suffering. Opec listened, but again, someone refused
He is a member, he has a right to disagree and he exercise his right. The other members r also enjoying their increase profit and they also silently do nothing. If Saudi wanna increase his oil production, who can force them not to ?
This is an intelligence report gathered from a credible agency that does paid biz as advisors for MNCs and investors.
This is an intelligence report gathered from a credible agency that does paid biz as advisors for MNCs and investors.
In yoru report they already mentioned "Purportedly" and "allegedly" and even "At this point, country risk evaluators must assume the worst, and create contingency plans to respond to any of these possiblities, no matter how remote the chance that they may occur. "
They r just rumours la ! If Iran really is so stupid to hire all the tankers, then by market equilibrium more tankers and ships will convert to carrying oil to earn higher profit and ease the pressure very fast . U think Iran can tie up all the world tanker ?
TS is using his intuition, you can say he is guessing. But what makes you think he is not right just because you can't see the evidence right now doesn't mean it won't have a chance of happening
Guessing is pointless because someone can guess completely the opposite. There is no shred of truth in it. Then how ? If guesses r valid enough to be right, then I can just go around killing people then claiming I guess they r evil people. Is tat right ? TS wanna start a war because of his guesses ? I guess he is crazy. Since guesses r right, then he is indeed crazy and his words should not be heeded.
Originally posted by xtreyier:The world produces 17billion of barrels a day. Assuming Iran ordered through intermediaries the entire lot of 14.5 billion at $80/b then, ( less their production) on Jun 07, it will only cost Iran only US$34billion for that month's output. Others will have no oil and scream, or pay higher, which Iran will then sell at $90/b. The world will pay, as they need it.
Subsequently, each month, Iran uses its reserves of est US$250billion to take control of output. Iran never loses, for it continues to sell at higher prices each day, and making more. Even if other Opec countries try to sell cheap, Iran just buy them all up, say thank you Opec, and sell back to the market at higher prices. Thus, the anomaly unprecedented spike within a few short month!
If you cannot see the linkages, then I can't help you. But others will.
You will have to declare wars on everynation then.... because what u are saying here is nothing more than speculatiors profiteering at our expenses... it doesn nt have to be Iran, anybody can buy and hoard then sell... Remember the saudis and all the middle eastern nations they have oil money... heck even our temasek can play this game..
Why do u pinpoint Iran?
Originally posted by tai gok nang:What about the lives of innocent Iraqis that had been lost in the war? Didn't they have the right to say to you they did not deserve to die in exchange of those proper education and freedom as you claimed?
In fact, US invasion of Iraq, if your memory is still good, was Saddam possessing WMDs capable of attacking other nations. UNSCOM entered Iraq, searched for the WMDs and found nothing. The US then went on to 'Go It Alone' with 'Coalition of the Willing', distorted UN resolution, and attacked Iraq. Exact number of US soldiers killed are known but the exact number of Iraqis killed and amputated can only be estimated. Nobody cares to count dead Iraqi bodies. The result was Iraq possessed NO WMDs whatsoever. It was totally cooked up by the US. The war costed not only lives but the US economy, contributing to the current dollar crisis, spiking oil price, and inflation today.
You don't get the big picture do you?
Is education, freedom and families who can lives without worrying if the next day their family members will be captured by saddam for interrogation and tortured LESS IMPORTANT than deaths that happened in battle?
Its good that you care about the deaths, but future is what they want. They don't want to live life in terror, getting tortured and buried in places no one knows, daughters being sexual assualted by powerful officials of Iraq pre-war.
Its good that you care about the deaths, but future is what they want. They don't want to live life in terror, getting tortured and buried in places no one knows, daughters being sexual assualted by powerful officials of Iraq pre-war.
But they are living in even WORSE terror now.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n07/cock01_.html
Originally posted by xtreyier:all these JUSTIFIES action to prevent the sufferning of BILLIONS other around the world who will soon starve to death, just because of the mad nuclear ambitions of a few Iranian individuals!
You seem to be very narcassitic!
no oil die! Mind you iran is not the only country that controls oil...
Anyways, what's THE PROOF that iran is the ONE & ONLY factor that is responsible for price hike?
As I have said, their oil, is as theirs to distribute... Too bad, this isnt communism...
Still doesnt justify war...
all these JUSTIFIES action to prevent the sufferning of BILLIONS other around the world who will soon starve to death, just because of the mad nuclear ambitions of a few Iranian individuals!
U r just dreaming la ! If it is true, we will agree with u. But u fail to establish it as truth. U r just making him a scapegoat for your own problems.
I don't know why people give the moral high ground on the Iraq war. If US really wanna help the people, why not attack North korea where the people r dying ? Why not help africans when the peoople r still massacaring each other ? Why Iraq ? They r not starving, they r all educated and they have a better sense of security than now since they don't blow themselves up.
Originally posted by Dezhou:You don't get the big picture do you?
Is education, freedom and families who can lives without worrying if the next day their family members will be captured by saddam for interrogation and tortured LESS IMPORTANT than deaths that happened in battle?Its good that you care about the deaths, but future is what they want. They don't want to live life in terror, getting tortured and buried in places no one knows, daughters being sexual assualted by powerful officials of Iraq pre-war.
Its the same thing... Just that its no longer saddam doing the torture...