Women shd also serve NS. Do u agree? share ur views.
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what if serving the army halfway or working in the hospital halfway pregnant how
does tt 9 months cancel out the 2 years?
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Nope I don't agree, male and female are obviously different gender and you don't need to be educated to know the difference.
Trying to imagine them as equal would be incorrect, Guy != Girl, whoever thinks Guy == Girl is retarded.
So if both entities aren't equal, it means they aren't equal and should never be made equal. That's the law of nature ok?
Hellooo......be good boy and obey the law of nature ok?
Never forget everyone came out from woman's vagina. So be respectful, have a little bit gratefulness and stop trying to normalise the gender. We don't even count the no. of times our breast got sucked by men.
Calculative men are not known to have good relationship with their women.
I thought Singapore men are real MEN compared to overseas counterparts because they can overcome NS. But perhaps I thought wrongly....
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
i am not talking about army nurses. just nurses in general. and it is a fact that nursing is a foreigner-dominated job, with rgds to military, civilian etc.just a few day ago, the newspaper announce that there is currently a dearth of nurses, foreign or local, in our hospitals, esp nursing homes where patients require long term treatment.
and imagine that u r a foreign nurse in singapore. U may stay here if SARs and avian flu is on the rampage. but would you do the same, when bombs are dropping around you? look at Israel's invasion of Lebandon. the first among the first to flee are their foreign professionals.
So many nurses available.. so what is going to happen to the nurses' pay ? Drop like cow dung. Then you will have more nurses flying to other countries to get better pay.
Supply more than demand.
Even Singaporean nurses are running away as we speak.
When solving a problem.. you look at the root of the problem.
If we provide better work benefit and compensation.. you think nurses need to run ? And if the profession becomes more desirable.. you think there won't be more people aspiring to become one ?
Do you know that even Doctors from third world countries are coming to the USA to become a nurse ? Have you wondered why ?
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Originally posted by Chris1988:
what if serving the army halfway or working in the hospital halfway pregnant how
does tt 9 months cancel out the 2 years?
i don't think any sane person would want to have a child just for the sake of not serving NS. that is stupid and morally irresponsible. -
Originally posted by deathmaster:
i don't think any sane person would want to have a child just for the sake of not serving NS. that is stupid and morally irresponsible.How can you be so sure ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
So many nurses available.. so what is going to happen to the nurses' pay ? Drop like cow dung. Then you will have more nurses flying to other countries to get better pay.
Supply more than demand.
Even Singaporean nurses are running away as we speak.
When solving a problem.. you look at the root of the problem.
If we provide better work benefit and compensation.. you think nurses need to run ? And if the profession becomes more desirable.. you think there won't be more people aspiring to become one ?
Do you know that even Doctors from third world countries are coming to the USA to become a nurse ? Have you wondered why ?
If the "nursing" term now is used in a form of conscription under the enlistment act.. is cannot run and get service (or rank) pay...
NS pay will never be on par with industry pay unless regular or doing ICT. -
Originally posted by off_service:
If the "nursing" term now is used in a form of conscription under the enlistment act.. is cannot run and get service (or rank) pay...
NS pay will never be on par with industry pay unless regular or doing ICT.So NS nurse is not same as regular nurse ?
So you pay NS nurse less and bind them down with reservist.. why should we need to pay regular nurse more and give them better benefits ?
That way.. more professional nurse will leave this profession.. only making matters worst.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
So NS nurse is not same as regular nurse ?
So you pay NS nurse less and bind them down with reservist.. why should we need to pay regular nurse more and give them better benefits ?
That way.. more professional nurse will leave this profession.. only making matters worst.
That makes it why NSFs are paid lesser while regulars are paid much more... Though one can argue regulars are doing it as a profession while NSFs are conscripts.
As with the argument you made, reservists are paid their full salary unless they are unemployed during the reservist period. -
Originally posted by jojobeach:
So many nurses available.. so what is going to happen to the nurses' pay ? Drop like cow dung. Then you will have more nurses flying to other countries to get better pay.
Supply more than demand.
Even Singaporean nurses are running away as we speak.
When solving a problem.. you look at the root of the problem.
If we provide better work benefit and compensation.. you think nurses need to run ? And if the profession becomes more desirable.. you think there won't be more people aspiring to become one ?
Do you know that even Doctors from third world countries are coming to the USA to become a nurse ? Have you wondered why ?
when ur life is threaten by war, which would you choose, ur life or payrise? there is no point in having a payrise if you can't spend it, dead or alive (who would still be doing business during a war?)
looking at the army, the presence of over 30,000 nsf doesn't deflat the wage of the regulars. not to mention that maintaining this large a peacetime army is pointless. you are paying people to keep fit and march around, which are activities of low economic benefit. NS is just a polite term for forced cheap labor. look, a nsf is paid $400 for full time NS, less than what a part time foreign labourer earns in a month.
so far, we are lacking in both doctors and nurses. and the government doesn't seem to be doing much to raise our own local doctors and nurses either. we still produce only 200 doctors a yr, about half of wad we really need. as for nurses, it is pathetic. NUS nursing doesn't even exist a few years ago.
and obviously not every girl would want to do nursing as NS. some are genuinely interested in a career with SAF. also, you must consider that there are many many ways one can serve NS. you need people to handle the logistics and admin. and last read on the news, our police force is understaff, as compared to HK and NY police dept.
our customs officers are also overworked, clocking the highest OT across all civil servants. some even clock over 90 hrs/ mnth.
thus, i would safely say that there are unlimited outlets for girls to serve NS. we have a labour shortage here. and as jojo pointed out, nursing is a more useful qualification than soldiering.
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What's the problem of women serving NS?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
So NS nurse is not same as regular nurse ?
So you pay NS nurse less and bind them down with reservist.. why should we need to pay regular nurse more and give them better benefits ?
That way.. more professional nurse will leave this profession.. only making matters worst.
obviously, the "more professional nurses" would have their perks. they can be chief matron in charge of multiple NS nurses. they would be retain with higher wage etc. and since the government did not do away with army regulars, i doubt that they will be replaced by nsf nurses.however, the foreign nurses would be replaced. ( thats the original aim)
and it is the business of girls whether they want to go overseas and be nurses, after serving NS. when serving NS, their serving of NS will be gurranteed by the Enlistment act, where they would be jailed for not doing NS.
and i also doubt that the average girl would still be working as a nurse after her NS. she may be interested in other things, e.g. study, business, working in other industries etc. likewise, we don't see many of our guys signing on as regulars, even though the salary is attractive.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
How can you be so sure ?
i believe that any rational human would not want to be burden with a child when they are not ready for a child.let say you get urself pregnant now, obviously, you will go for an abortion if you are not ready to have a child.
and also, people don't go around saying "I don't want to serve NS, so let's have a child".
and lastly, if you are as rational as you claim, would you get urself pregant just to escape/shorten NS?
there's your answer.
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
i believe that any rational human would not want to be burden with a child when they are not ready for a child.let say you get urself pregnant now, obviously, you will go for an abortion if you are not ready to have a child.
and also, people don't go around saying "I don't want to serve NS, so let's have a child".
and lastly, if you are as rational as you claim, would you get urself pregant just to escape/shorten NS?
there's your answer.
That's what you think.
At the age of ...16-18... how rational can you expect a person to be ?
What's the abortion rate in Singapore ? Not forgeting some that slip statistics when they go over the causeway to get abortion done secretly.
I wouldn't be as irrational to get pregnant just to skip NS.. but I do have the option to leave the country marrying some distant stranger.
Also not forgeting.. it's socially acceptable for men to marry a younger woman in Singapore.
There's too many ways and means for females to avoid NS.. and it's that easy.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
That's what you think.
At the age of ...16-18... how rational can you expect a person to be ?
What's the abortion rate in Singapore ? Not forgeting some that slip statistics when they go over the causeway to get abortion done secretly.
I wouldn't be as irrational to get pregnant just to skip NS.. but I do have the option to leave the country marrying some distant stranger.
Also not forgeting.. it's socially acceptable for men to marry a younger woman in Singapore.
There's too many ways and means for females to avoid NS.. and it's that easy.
Ermm.. If NS for females is enforced by law, it would be under the Enlistment Act and there won't be "too many ways and means" to avoid..
Under enlistment act.. either you serve or run off and never come back. Running off and never come back can be considered desertion and is a very serious offence. -
Originally posted by deathmaster:
when ur life is threaten by war, which would you choose, ur life or payrise? there is no point in having a payrise if you can't spend it, dead or alive (who would still be doing business during a war?)
looking at the army, the presence of over 30,000 nsf doesn't deflat the wage of the regulars. not to mention that maintaining this large a peacetime army is pointless. you are paying people to keep fit and march around, which are activities of low economic benefit. NS is just a polite term for forced cheap labor. look, a nsf is paid $400 for full time NS, less than what a part time foreign labourer earns in a month.
so far, we are lacking in both doctors and nurses. and the government doesn't seem to be doing much to raise our own local doctors and nurses either. we still produce only 200 doctors a yr, about half of wad we really need. as for nurses, it is pathetic. NUS nursing doesn't even exist a few years ago.
and obviously not every girl would want to do nursing as NS. some are genuinely interested in a career with SAF. also, you must consider that there are many many ways one can serve NS. you need people to handle the logistics and admin. and last read on the news, our police force is understaff, as compared to HK and NY police dept.
our customs officers are also overworked, clocking the highest OT across all civil servants. some even clock over 90 hrs/ mnth.
thus, i would safely say that there are unlimited outlets for girls to serve NS. we have a labour shortage here. and as jojo pointed out, nursing is a more useful qualification than soldiering.
Well if NS is the best option to increase doctors and nurse counts.
Then why isn't the government training NS men to become doctors and nurses ? Men can be nurses too.
Instead why do they make young intelligent men do useless training and waste our tax payer's money ?????
Why couldn't they simply redirect the abundant human resources to plug the holes in those profession ?
WHY ?
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Originally posted by off_service:
Ermm.. If NS for females is enforced by law, it would be under the Enlistment Act and there won't be "too many ways and means" to avoid..
Under enlistment act.. either you serve or run off and never come back. Running off and never come back can be considered desertion and is a very serious offence.Oh trust me.. we'll find our ways.. and the best part is we don't need to self mutilate just to get out of it.
You can ofcors force it through..by making all females take contraceptive pills.
Charge them if they dare marry a foreigner.
Refuse passport applications to all female until they ROD.
Make it more inhumane just so you get females to do NS.
Could this be worst than a communist state ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Oh trust me.. we'll find our ways.. and the best part is we don't need to self mutilate just to get out of it.
You can ofcors force it through..by making all females take contraceptive pills.
Charge them if they dare marry a foreigner.
Refuse passport applications to all female until they ROD.
Make it more inhumane just so you get females to do NS.
Could this be worst than a communist state ?
We should have more views from other ladies around besides yours.
And if you think you are clever, the Enlistment Act will be one step ahead of you.
If everyone serving NS has the same mindset as you, the SAF is doomed.
I think you should have more insight on how NS works, besides the training and stuffs guys usually complain about.
That's all I have to say. -
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Oh trust me.. we'll find our ways.. and the best part is we don't need to self mutilate just to get out of it.
You can ofcors force it through..by making all females take contraceptive pills.
Charge them if they dare marry a foreigner.
Refuse passport applications to all female until they ROD.
Make it more inhumane just so you get females to do NS.
Could this be worst than a communist state ?
if it is so easy to squirm out of ns, there would be no one left in saf.
unless you want to go overseas and never to come back. even then, you will be deported back when ur visa runs out.
and at 18, would you go around marrying random foreigners? even the most irrational of singaporean girls wouldn't do that.
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
if it is so easy to squirm out of ns, there would be no one left in saf.
unless you want to go overseas and never to come back. even then, you will be deported back when ur visa runs out.
and at 18, would you go around marrying random foreigners? even the most irrational of singaporean girls wouldn't do that.
LOL.. you have no idea .. what a female will and can do.
I'd love to see how the enlistment act deals with female conscript.
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*shrugs*
Is going for NS so difficult for you?
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Originally posted by dcx:
*shrugs*
Is going for NS so difficult for you?
It's not going to affect me anyway.
But I sure wouldn't want my dotter to go for NS ( if I have one).
And my son wouldn't have to if I don't marry a Singaporean.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
It's not going to affect me anyway.
But I sure wouldn't want my dotter to go for NS ( if I have one).
For whatever reason? -
Originally posted by dcx:
For whatever reason?For the same reason why I think 2 yr NS is waste of time and tax payer's money.
I think it's about time .. the gahmen become more practical about this issue.. and start evolving their policies to catch up with the times.
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Originally posted by dcx:
What's the problem of women serving NS?
What's the problem of women not serving NS? -
Originally posted by parn:
What's the problem of women not serving NS?Misery loves company lah...