1st world country, 3rd world situation, Uniquely Singapore
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
10 billion dollar can buy them and their family for 7 generations
Money makes the world goes round. In Singapore, money makes PAP's world go round and round and round.
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Action speaks louder than words.There are two ways. 1st dont vote for P4P.Second, Join P4P from within and change it.Wait till the three old heads are gone,then take over.
Well thats what I think lahz.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
He kong.. fallacy of Accident lah.
Example...
Men got moustache, jojobeach's father is a man.. so therefore men are jojobeach's father.....
Sweeping Generalization.
Understand ?
Oh wait.. I think I got it the other way round...
jojobeach's father is a man.. jojobeach's father got moustache... therefore.. man got moustache...
OK ? Good.
I understand now, thank you.
Men got moustache, jojobeach's father is a man.. so therefore men are jojobeach's father.....
You didn't understand fully... The above part is wrong.
Correct one is:
Men got moustache, jojobeach's father is a man.. so therefore jojobeach's father has moustache.....
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What republic? while in fact you are living in a kingdom of represssion. Those who realize it flee the country those who don't are living in a dream land. Shutting their eyes to the grim reality that Singapore is effectively under a dictatorship.
I prefer to get a better life. If u give me a choice of being rich, eat good things, can go to travel, recruit maids and living in a kingdom of repression,
or
eat poor things, seldom travel, have to work as maid and living in a democracy,
I prefer to be in the former. U can say I am shutting my eyes, but i felt u r shutting your eye to the things tat really matter
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I prefer to get a better life. If u give me a choice of being rich, eat good things, can go to travel, recruit maids and living in a kingdom of repression,
or
eat poor things, seldom travel, have to work as maid and living in a democracy,
I prefer to be in the former. U can say I am shutting my eyes, but i felt u r shutting your eye to the things tat really matter
hey stupid,
i wish you would stop giving an either or choice where one is a glorified good life you portrayed and the other gloom and doom without PAP (as you infer). no one wants to live in a latter choice as you put it if one can help it, but PAP is not the only party who can provide a good life to its people. nor an alternative party will flush sungapore down the sewage system.
your constant referral to this in multiple posts is a pain to read as it shows your shallow inadequacy in thinking beyond the PAP line that you have been brainwashed to.
er....i mean stupidissmart. is stupid really smart?
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I am not saying tat PAP is the only one tat can give u a good life. U r right. Will an alternative party flush singapore down the sewerage pipe ? I don't know. But if u ask me if liberal democracy is the right path to go, I can tell u straight in the face tat it is not.
I just felt tat some particular individual is just writing a bit... puzzling... I feel tat some people feel democracy so good tat having a poorer quality of life is ok. Why ? To me, everything is about quality of life. Whoever gives me a better quality of life, I vote for who. His only reason why we suck is because we r not decmoratic... And so ? Is something as superficial as being democratic really matters ?
People believe in democracy because it can give u a better quality of life. People shouldn't believe in democracy because it is democracy. Otherwise u r just being... superficial.... And tat is why I ask tat individual the question in the previous reply.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I am not saying tat PAP is the only one tat can give u a good life. U r right. Will an alternative party flush singapore down the sewerage pipe ? I don't know. But if u ask me if liberal democracy is the right path to go, I can tell u straight in the face tat it is not.
I just felt tat some particular individual is just writing a bit... puzzling... I feel tat some people feel democracy so good tat having a poorer quality of life is ok. Why ? To me, everything is about quality of life. Whoever gives me a better quality of life, I vote for who. His only reason why we suck is because we r not decmoratic... And so ? Is something as superficial as being democratic really matters ?
speaking in absolutes again...who is advocating liberal democracy?
what is required of the ruling party, amongst many things, is a little more compassion to its own people in these day and time where a little sheltering would be good. instead, we are seeing a greater divide now.
what good is liberal democracy if people continues to fight a losing battle in getting jobs where the FTs have the upper hand and the poor, old and needy continues to be sidelines to just subsistence living in a so called 1st world country?
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what good is liberal democracy if people continues to fight a losing battle in getting jobs where the FTs have the upper hand and the poor, old and needy continues to be sidelines to just subsistence living in a so called 1st world country?
Tis is a very complicated problem which a lot of countries faces. However one thing for sure in singapore is, if u r a normal person job is not tat difficult to find. The unemployment rate of singapore is low. The problem is, all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work. If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay. If u r a poly, u can try to be a nurse. Hospital r also finding it difficult to find nurses. But again few singaporean apply. If u r o level and below, u can be a bus driver. Sad to say, tat FT r the one tat can keep up with demand. There r other jobs which no singaporean r even thinking. Maids, machinist, construction workers etc. So wat to do ? FT. If they r not here, some singaporean will be forced to be a construction worker. Do u like to be a construction worker ? FT has a purpose.
If u talk about old people, then I am wondering how can they be employed ? They do not have strength, can not learn new things, not a clear mind and do not know english. Then wat jobs r left for them ?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Tis is a very complicated problem which a lot of countries faces. However one thing for sure in singapore is, if u r a normal person job is not tat difficult to find. The unemployment rate of singapore is low. The problem is, all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work. If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay. If u r a poly, u can try to be a nurse. Hospital r also finding it difficult to find nurses. But again few singaporean apply. If u r o level and below, u can be a bus driver. Sad to say, tat FT r the one tat can keep up with demand. There r other jobs which no singaporean r even thinking. Maids, machinist, construction workers etc. So wat to do ? FT. If they r not here, some singaporean will be forced to be a construction worker. Do u like to be a construction worker ? FT has a purpose.
If u talk about old people, then I am wondering how can they be employed ? They do not have strength, can not learn new things, not a clear mind and do not know english. Then wat jobs r left for them ?
just reading your reply , i can only say that your grasp of what's needed to be done here to make life a little more bearable for the those(singaporeans) who need help, is wanting.
no one is denying that there are pockets of jobs that perhaps these so-called FTs (which is a misnomer, btw) has a use for/in singapore. you have a fundamental problem if you have a free wage market where the locals cannot adequately compete on a level playing field because the loaded cost of living is already fixed at a certain level living in singapore. in developed, english speaking markets like the USA and australia, do you have similar situation where migrants have a field day getting in and out of the country (with ease) and competing on wages on a wide scale of industry and work level with the locals? or for the matter, UK. do you see a situation where anyone can enter freely and compete for jobs at all levels of the basis of wages?
granted there will be some jobs where singaporean will not get their hands dirty on; but if these can be compensated by a competitive wage where they felt that it is worth their while to work to support their family, i am certain that no one will be such a block head as to prefer to remain jobless than to do something.
your generalization of singaporean as unaccomodating is uncalled for.
finally, you contradicted yourself when you said "...all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work." this free market thingy the government is so fond of using as a guise for keeping blue collar wages low is what will be the unravelling factor to singapore's competitiveness in the long run. as people are willing to work for less now, you will find less qualified people holding the same job and less pride is put onto the work. not to mention the negative social impact that is yet to hit singapore.
what good is a singapore that is top this, top that, hub this, hub that when its soul is no longer in the right place?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Tis is a very complicated problem which a lot of countries faces. However one thing for sure in singapore is, if u r a normal person job is not tat difficult to find. The unemployment rate of singapore is low. The problem is, all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work. If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay. If u r a poly, u can try to be a nurse. Hospital r also finding it difficult to find nurses. But again few singaporean apply. If u r o level and below, u can be a bus driver. Sad to say, tat FT r the one tat can keep up with demand. There r other jobs which no singaporean r even thinking. Maids, machinist, construction workers etc. So wat to do ? FT. If they r not here, some singaporean will be forced to be a construction worker. Do u like to be a construction worker ? FT has a purpose.
If u talk about old people, then I am wondering how can they be employed ? They do not have strength, can not learn new things, not a clear mind and do not know english. Then wat jobs r left for them ?
Not a complicated problem at all.
One simple reason why it is so...
Singaporean are too cheapskate.
Everything we want .. cheap.
And because the world is not equal.
We bring in cheap labor from cheaper countries.
So yes... we should be glad countries like Indonesia.. Philipines..Thailand.. Vietnam stays impoverized... simply because we want cheap labor.
Without this inequality... Singaporeans will all suffer.
So better to have people from another country suffer, so we can take advantage.
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The TS is right,what is so unique about Singapore?The most unique thing so far is Goh Chok Tong's @ss is big enough to let Lou Lee n Young Lee cork slot in at the same time.Thats the most unique thing in Singapore.
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no one is denying that there are pockets of jobs that perhaps these so-called FTs (which is a misnomer, btw) has a use for/in singapore. you have a fundamental problem if you have a free wage market where the locals cannot adequately compete on a level playing field because the loaded cost of living is already fixed at a certain level living in singapore. in developed, english speaking markets like the USA and australia, do you have similar situation where migrants have a field day getting in and out of the country (with ease) and competing on wages on a wide scale of industry and work level with the locals? or for the matter, UK. do you see a situation where anyone can enter freely and compete for jobs at all levels of the basis of wages?
To be frank, tis is link with their immigration problem and US british etc find more and more immigrants coming in to work. In Europe, after the integration of the euro group, people r indeed more mobile and the immigrants come in the form of poorer europe countries. In US, they also find themselves having to deal with the chinese and india who stay after they get their degree. Tat is why during election, immigration issue is something big for them. If u go to US or french, u can find there r a lot of chinese, african and india. If u go to italy, u will find a lot of people r from africa. If u r in germany, u will find more people from eastern europe. If u go to australia, there is also quite a high number of chinese. Even if u wanna go to japan, u can find more south americans there
If u compare with singapore, one thing for sure is tat the unemployment rate is low. Tis is unlike US or Europe or Australia where their unemployment is generally much higher. Furthermore, it is not tat easy for foreigner to come in anytime they want and leave anytime they want.
granted there will be some jobs where singaporean will not get their hands dirty on; but if these can be compensated by a competitive wage where they felt that it is worth their while to work to support their family, i am certain that no one will be such a block head as to prefer to remain jobless than to do something.
The problem is, there r enough jobs for people out there. Who is really out of job ? The real complaint is they find the job being paid too low. A person prefer to work in a job with a better condition than a job with a worse condition. And if u pay much higher than the other normal industries, then they will shift to another cheaper place outside singapore. Otherwise they just pass the cost to u. Lets name an example. If we r forced to give $1200 for a local construction worker than $400 for a foreigner, then r u willing to accept a house tat is 2 times more expensive ? Do u mind paying 30% more for staying in hospital if we employ local nurses ?
Let me ask u a difficult moral dilemma. Do u want a company tat employ all foreginers as their workers yet pay the land, tax, bill and spend in singapore or u prefer the company to move out of singapore ?
One of the main problem of singapore is high labour cost. If a company employs all foreign workers, tis labour cost is offset and operating cost is lower, inducing them to come to singapore to invest or stay. However the employment of local will be damn low and tat is bad for citizen
If we force them not to employ any foreigner, then the labour cost is very high and tis eats into the operating cost, inducing companies not to invest in singapore or move out of singapore. Then companies will moved out, jobs become scarce and pay still reduced since supply is more than demand
So wat is the best model ? Ensure the companies r still attracted to singapore by the reduced stress on labour through FT, but still make sure local people r still employed by having tax on foreign workers or a quota of local to foreign workers. The most important thing is to make sure unemployment rate is low and it is tuned by adjusting the amount of foreigners coming over to work
finally, you contradicted yourself when you said "...all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work." this free market thingy the government is so fond of using as a guise for keeping blue collar wages low is what will be the unravelling factor to singapore's competitiveness in the long run. as people are willing to work for less now, you will find less qualified people holding the same job and less pride is put onto the work. not to mention the negative social impact that is yet to hit singapore.
what good is a singapore that is top this, top that, hub this, hub that when its soul is no longer in the right place?
I thought I state man's nature. All people want to do good job and not do lousy job. Who in the right frame of mind prefer to do a lousy job when they can do a good one ? If u talk about putting less pride into the work, then frankly speaking from donkey years ago, blue collar workers always think they r paid too little. Because people compare themselves with other type of work and they will feel they r paid lower than white collar workers. Tat is why tat is a supervisor around since the start of industralisation. They have to find motivation for the worker through a carrot and stick approach. Do u think the pride level changes significantly over the years ? In history, nobody in any country feel they r paid too much as a blue collar worker.
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
To be frank, tis is link with their immigration problem and US british etc find more and more immigrants coming in to work. In Europe, after the integration of the euro group, people r indeed more mobile and the immigrants come in the form of poorer europe countries. In US, they also find themselves having to deal with the chinese and india who stay after they get their degree. Tat is why during election, immigration issue is something big for them. If u go to US or french, u can find there r a lot of chinese, african and india. If u go to italy, u will find a lot of people r from africa. If u r in germany, u will find more people from eastern europe. If u go to australia, there is also quite a high number of chinese. Even if u wanna go to japan, u can find more south americans there
If u compare with singapore, one thing for sure is tat the unemployment rate is low. Tis is unlike US or Europe or Australia where their unemployment is generally much higher. Furthermore, it is not tat easy for foreigner to come in anytime they want and leave anytime they want.
The problem is, there r enough jobs for people out there. Who is really out of job ? The real complaint is they find the job being paid too low. A person prefer to work in a job with a better condition than a job with a worse condition. And if u pay much higher than the other normal industries, then they will shift to another cheaper place outside singapore. Otherwise they just pass the cost to u. Lets name an example. If we r forced to give $1200 for a local construction worker than $400 for a foreigner, then r u willing to accept a house tat is 2 times more expensive ? Do u mind paying 30% more for staying in hospital if we employ local nurses ?
Let me ask u a difficult moral dilemma. Do u want a company tat employ all foreginers as their workers yet pay the land, tax, bill and spend in singapore or u prefer the company to move out of singapore ?
One of the main problem of singapore is high labour cost. If a company employs all foreign workers, tis labour cost is offset and operating cost is lower, inducing them to come to singapore to invest or stay. However the employment of local will be damn low and tat is bad for citizen
If we force them not to employ any foreigner, then the labour cost is very high and tis eats into the operating cost, inducing companies not to invest in singapore or move out of singapore. Then companies will moved out, jobs become scarce and pay still reduced since supply is more than demand
So wat is the best model ? Ensure the companies r still attracted to singapore by the reduced stress on labour through FT, but still make sure local people r still employed by having tax on foreign workers or a quota of local to foreign workers. The most important thing is to make sure unemployment rate is low and it is tuned by adjusting the amount of foreigners coming over to work
I thought I state man's nature. All people want to do good job and not do lousy job. Who in the right frame of mind prefer to do a lousy job when they can do a good one ? If u talk about putting less pride into the work, then frankly speaking from donkey years ago, blue collar workers always think they r paid too little. Because people compare themselves with other type of work and they will feel they r paid lower than white collar workers. Tat is why tat is a supervisor around since the start of industralisation. They have to find motivation for the worker through a carrot and stick approach. Do u think the pride level changes significantly over the years ? In history, nobody in any country feel they r paid too much as a blue collar worker.
once again, you rant about an either or choice. and stop giving extreme hypothetical examples.
you live in a mutually exclusive world. that's all i got to say here. -
just show ur discontentment in the next GE.... teach them a lesson.
popping up ERPs all over the place, letting fuel price spiral out of control, etc... i am fed up of that. even diesel, the cheaper fuel has rocket up to over $2 / liter.... wth....
how is anyone going to do business at this rate?
and yes, please go around telling people to save money, when they have reform the economy to a service economy, where growth depends on consumerism. saving money means that someone in another corner of singapore will make lesser money, and that person will have to save more, creating a vicious cycle.
smart indeed... i hope we have a figure like anwar, who will really threaten the ruling gahmen to actually do something useful to the people.
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oh hell no, Anwar's just a very shrew politicial manipulator, i don't want him anywhere near the government
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Tis is a very complicated problem which a lot of countries faces. However one thing for sure in singapore is, if u r a normal person job is not tat difficult to find. The unemployment rate of singapore is low. The problem is, all the people wanna do good job and not do lousy work. If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay. If u r a poly, u can try to be a nurse. Hospital r also finding it difficult to find nurses. But again few singaporean apply. If u r o level and below, u can be a bus driver. Sad to say, tat FT r the one tat can keep up with demand. There r other jobs which no singaporean r even thinking. Maids, machinist, construction workers etc. So wat to do ? FT. If they r not here, some singaporean will be forced to be a construction worker. Do u like to be a construction worker ? FT has a purpose.
If u talk about old people, then I am wondering how can they be employed ? They do not have strength, can not learn new things, not a clear mind and do not know english. Then wat jobs r left for them ?
However one thing for sure in singapore is, if u r a normal person job is not tat difficult to find.
Not true. I have normal friends with 2nd upper honours who till now, cannot find any job.
If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay.
So you are telling us that we should all accept more work for less pay?
If u talk about old people, then I am wondering how can they be employed ? They do not have strength, can not learn new things, not a clear mind and do not know english.
If so, why are we not providing them with even more welfare (monthly welfare allowance), like what Hong Kong is giving its aged citizens? Afterall, they have all contributed to what Singapore is today.
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All people want to do good job and not do lousy job. Who in the right frame of mind prefer to do a lousy job when they can do a good one ?
funny how you said the above when you said the following in an earlier post
If u r an engineer, there r always jobs waiting for u at the ship yard. But few singaporean go because they find it too far, too hard and too little pay.
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Originally posted by Melbournite:
anyone can notice the parallellism here? Thats really strange that 1000 ppl every year migrate.
last i know that this scenario is for 3rd world countries like Sri Lanka, Africa where they come to Australia to escape their hopeless fate in their homelands. These people could not go back due to various reasons like civil war, poverty ect. and they stay in australia to get an education and a job.
But Singapore, a first world country?! . 1st world country, 3rd world situation. Uniquely Singapore.
Singaporeans are the new "refugees", abeit a higher class one, educated and skilled in other countries.
There are other parallellesims as well which such as the Death Penalty and Caning which resembles 3rd world countries.
what do think is the figure ,100 iso 1000?,then show that SG is a free country
where pple no need to escape from Lee's regime?
USA,UK etc also see lot of pple migrate to other countries.
Then,what do u say about their system---police state?
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
what do think is the figure ,100 iso 1000?,then show that SG is a free country
where pple no need to escape from Lee's regime?
USA,UK etc also see lot of pple migrate to other countries.
Then,what do u say about their system---police state?
Your "a lot", is it in numbers or percentages?
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Someone die die must go all the way at all cost to blindly defend the evil despots.
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LOL! He follow blindly ma
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Originally posted by Midlusionz:
LOL! He follow blindly ma
That is precisely what I am saying. If there is a hole and LKy tells him it is a road he will believe and walk there and later falls into the hole. Ha ha ha. How stupid can he get . . .. . . amazing.
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In and out is very common.In fact,gross migration leaving SG
shall be more than 1000.Many came to SG,at least planned for short term.
Many become long term and settle here.
But our net gain is very high,if u trust CIA report.
I find wars torn countries also got very net gain.
UK saw 400,000 left in 2005.So,can u say UK
is a police state?
Figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggest 591,000 people migrated to the UK in 2006 while some 400,000 people moved overseas.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7096352.stm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html
Chee Soon Juan and his foreign buddy made big mistakes
in migration figures.
They think SG experienced net loss of population.But in fact
Spore was one ot the top net gain in migrations.What a fool
and egg head academic for his foreign buddy!!
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
That is precisely what I am saying. If there is a hole and LKy tells him it is a road he will believe and walk there and later falls into the hole. Ha ha ha. How stupid can he get . . .. . . amazing.
I was having this debate with my mum last night.. I was telling her how fuk up is LKY .. She was like "He has done alot for Singapore" .. I straight tell her in the face "That was your time and ya he did alot but isnt it time for him to pass to baton and F how much are we singaporean paying everyday? If u dun agree next time bills come dun tell mi expensive and dun go market and come home complaining wat this wat that price raise" She keep quiet and continue watching TV. Seriously, our standard of living really damn high .. -
Originally posted by Midlusionz:
I was having this debate with my mum last night.. I was telling her how fuk up is LKY .. She was like "He has done alot for Singapore" .. I straight tell her in the face "That was your time and ya he did alot but isnt it time for him to pass to baton and F how much are we singaporean paying everyday? If u dun agree next time bills come dun tell mi expensive and dun go market and come home complaining wat this wat that price raise" She keep quiet and continue watching TV. Seriously, our standard of living really damn high ..
The 66.6% voters are to be blamed for allowing us all this shit from the evil despots. LKY contributed in the past. Now he is so sick to keep basing on the past to keep boasting. Thank goodness, not all Singaporeans are blind like some lackeys here to believe and support what he says. Just that day, I went to 7 Eleven to pay the bill when mentioned about living costs continuously getting high and government is partially responsible for it. The cashier aunty was so fast to defend the ruling party, she said does not blame the PAP for they are good we have no war in Singapore. Later when I left, I found out she did not return my ATM card. Scary, because of PAP she refused to return me my ATM card. just kidding lah. Some people just enjoy living within the fence PAP has set up. Silly.