Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:What is this "diverse democratic learning"?? Are you refering to the Liberal Arts?
If by anything, the real problem in Singapore for our engineers in particular is a lack of exposure to "proper real life engineering". This is largely due to our economy lacking a diverse array of engineering jobs. An engineer is only as good as his skills and experience. Both of which need serious nurturing.
This is true. Electronic and Electrical Engineering, mechanical engineering graduates will not find, or will find little relevance in the Singapore industries. Friends of mine landed in jobs as Bullion Traders, with degree in mechanical. But those doing chemical engineering are having good times in Singapore, many do internship in many of the petroleum and petro chemicals plants in Jurong island. Can't tell about their skills but Exxon Mobil, Shell are recruiting fresh graduates in chemical engineering to groom them, or nurture them....like the government scholars.
Originally posted by Melbournite:IF NUS is best, why does AUs ask for work expereince of 5 years to apply for PR?
Let me tell u the story, unlike AUS Uni, they dont want graduate who vomit facts during exam and not know anything about real life working...
And NUS grad get job offer before graduatiion is because foreign MNC can only tap into the local market due to the grads familiarity with the country.. Now that the floodgates are opened for FT, NUS grad is close to nothing ..
i guess it is just the regulation aussie imposed on non-aus grad. i think a bit protectionist as well.
i am just reinforcing robert's point, partly in fun because what he said is the truth, not necessarily sensible. do you need to show your kangoo-phile uglyhead and defend australia uni at all costs? the world is big enuf for all to co-exist.
`nus grad is close to nothing' another strong statement from you that you will never be able to justify.
Originally posted by redDUST:sgd,
whether you get an education in nus or not, or anywhere else, depends on yourself. you make the best of the situation you are in. how involved you are, your outlook and what you want to get out of the 3/4 years in tertiary or any school will pad on to the knowledge that will come as standard.
fancy you generalizing about nus. are you a nus grad? otherwise, you should refrain from talking about things you have not experienced 1st hand. if you are, don't blame the uni for the lack of education you received. i am not sure what is your inadequacy. maybe you can share. do you even know what you are talking about.
your last statement is equally shallow, give credit where credit is due. australia, amongst other countries, are recognized for their world class tertiary education offered to the masses. btw, what is an `easy life' in your view?
lastly, robertteh's comment is nothing sensible. what he said is true, however, it is the most partial view anyone with strong emotional attachment to anything(school included) will say.
BK's swiss double cheese is the best burger in the world wide world. a sensible statement?
I didn't attend NUS, but it doesn't mean I know nothing about NUS. I have NUS grads working for me, I have relatives studying in NUS.
How does NUS qualify to be the best? among the uni in Singapre, Asia?
Giving credit to where it dues, yes. NUS is recognised as the most established uni in Singapore, with credit mostly from its predecessor, the Singapore University, where almost all civil servants were educated, and the only english university here for a long time. With longer history than the other two universities, NUS no dount have better experience and credentials. But, the best MBA program is not from the NUS, but the NTU, with better known professors in business, more relevant syllabus. SMU graduates are better paid than the NUS grads, by MNCs operating locally. SMU appears to have a better selection process for their undergrads, and a more interactive program with relevant subjects. At least these are what the headhunters having in mind. So, NUS is the best university in Singapore, but not the best place for business, make sense?
BK's swiss double cheese is the best burger in the world wide world? it cannot make sense, at least in the Singapore context, or else why are there fewer and fewer BK outlets here. I still prefer BicMac, the best in Singapore, JB and Bataam, you see, there are more McDonald outlets here than anyother hamburgers outlets, make sense?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:I didn't attend NUS, but it doesn't mean I know nothing about NUS. I have NUS grads working for me, I have relatives studying in NUS.
How does NUS qualify to be the best? among the uni in Singapre, Asia?
Giving credit to where it dues, yes. NUS is recognised as the most established uni in Singapore, with credit mostly from its predecessor, the Singapore University, where almost all civil servants were educated, and the only english university here for a long time. With longer history than the other two universities, NUS no dount have better experience and credentials. But, the best MBA program is not from the NUS, but the NTU, with better known professors in business, more relevant syllabus. SMU graduates are better paid than the NUS grads, by MNCs operating locally. SMU appears to have a better selection process for their undergrads, and a more interactive program with relevant subjects. At least these are what the headhunters having in mind. So, NUS is the best university in Singapore, but not the best place for business, make sense?
BK's swiss double cheese is the best burger in the world wide world? it cannot make sense, at least in the Singapore context, or else why are there fewer and fewer BK outlets here. I still prefer BicMac, the best in Singapore, JB and Bataam, you see, there are more McDonald outlets here than anyother hamburgers outlets, make sense?
i know and have been to NASA in texas. can i make general judgement about that outfit?
you distort yourself again. you talk about getting a (lack of) education in nus, i rebutted you on that point. why are you bringing up about nus being the best? can you ever stick to a discussion and not meander as you often have?
thanks for your comment on big mac. you just contradicted yourself.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:BK's swiss double cheese is the best burger in the world wide world? it cannot make sense, at least in the Singapore context, or else why are there fewer and fewer BK outlets here. I still prefer BicMac, the best in Singapore, JB and Bataam, you see, there are more McDonald outlets here than anyother hamburgers outlets, make sense?
i have to say, another dumb statement from you.
judging by your logic, then rang mahal must have served the worst indian food in singapore, because it has only 1 outlet?
and are u sure bk has fewer and fewer outlets in sgp? it definitely has less than mcd, but bonfood is definitely adding on bk's presence in singapore.
Originally posted by redDUST:i guess it is just the regulation aussie imposed on non-aus grad. i think a bit protectionist as well.
i am just reinforcing robert's point, partly in fun because what he said is the truth, not necessarily sensible. do you need to show your kangoo-phile uglyhead and defend australia uni at all costs? the world is big enuf for all to co-exist.
`nus grad is close to nothing' another strong statement from you that you will never be able to justify.
It not being protectionist, its because NUS is not the best according to the Aussie. If u studied in Aussie uni, u would have realised that it indeed closely linked with the working world. Also note that those who applying PR in Aus, from NUS u need 5 years of work expereince in singapore or elsewhere and if u studied in Aus uni, the requirement is only 1 year. So why the huge difference, its because 3 years uni in Aus practically taught u everything about the working world...
u will reliase that it forces u to think,interact and be mor free with your mind and not memorise facts and figures ( a bore chore) and study for exams like a mad fool...Its true Aus tertiary is world class...Do u know why , its because their education is interlinked with the current trends in the job market research. So in fact something u studying is 100 % relevant to the working world, and its been regularly reviewed by the Aus Govt. Even those TAFE institutions ( Aus polys) follow the same guideline. The system has been compacted and shrinked to include only the relevant portion of the education and not everything under the hood like in Singapore and make them get grades in exams...This emphasis on grades is not the right way to enhance education because it will mainly make the students study for the grade rather than gaining fruitful insight on watever they are learning,..it also explains why singaprean students are stressed
Singapore education thinks that by making u study everything under the hood, it makes one clever cos thats not true. The implementation, at best is shoddy...
Originally posted by sgdiehard:I didn't attend NUS, but it doesn't mean I know nothing about NUS. I have NUS grads working for me, I have relatives studying in NUS.
How does NUS qualify to be the best? among the uni in Singapre, Asia?
Giving credit to where it dues, yes. NUS is recognised as the most established uni in Singapore, with credit mostly from its predecessor, the Singapore University, where almost all civil servants were educated, and the only english university here for a long time. With longer history than the other two universities, NUS no dount have better experience and credentials. But, the best MBA program is not from the NUS, but the NTU, with better known professors in business, more relevant syllabus. SMU graduates are better paid than the NUS grads, by MNCs operating locally. SMU appears to have a better selection process for their undergrads, and a more interactive program with relevant subjects. At least these are what the headhunters having in mind. So, NUS is the best university in Singapore, but not the best place for business, make sense?
BK's swiss double cheese is the best burger in the world wide world? it cannot make sense, at least in the Singapore context, or else why are there fewer and fewer BK outlets here. I still prefer BicMac, the best in Singapore, JB and Bataam, you see, there are more McDonald outlets here than anyother hamburgers outlets, make sense?
Its because SMU is following what AUS/UK/US Uni are doing. Place emphasis on the overall interactivity between education, workplace and the student.
there is a reason why SMU is better too, its not that they are top ranking, its because of the govt's strategy to earn dollars from the education market as well, so they "shape it out" so that this instituition or that is better or worst for this or that...
If u want to work internationally, SMU and Any of the western Unis are the best route to take
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
This is one of the few sensible statements I've read in this forum. The illerate people are not the uneducated people. Many schools and universities impact knowledge, but not much in terms of education.For imparting knowledge, NUS does too well, but sad to say not so much in education.
Not all the universities in Australia are good at all subjects. Achitecture firms in Singapore prefer local graduates than OZ graduates, and they pay local graduates higher.
One thing for sure, if you want easy life in the university, go Australian.
thts becuase singapore has a better and advanced buildings than AUS where the buildings generally are old and long standing...
Originally posted by kramnave:Was just wondering, you went to universities in Singapore and Australia ? I didn't attend NUS so I can't really compare.
I did my degree in AUS and MBA in Singapore.
Originally posted by Melbournite:It not being protectionist, its because NUS is not the best according to the Aussie. If u studied in Aussie uni, u would have realised that it indeed closely linked with the working world. Also note that those who applying PR in Aus, from NUS u need 5 years of work expereince in singapore or elsewhere and if u studied in Aus uni, the requirement is only 1 year. So why the huge difference, its because 3 years uni in Aus practically taught u everything about the working world...
u will reliase that it forces u to think,interact and be mor free with your mind and not memorise facts and figures ( a bore chore) and study for exams like a mad fool...Its true Aus tertiary is world class...Do u know why , its because their education is interlinked with the current trends in the job market research. So in fact something u studying is 100 % relevant to the working world, and its been regularly reviewed by the Aus Govt. Even those TAFE institutions ( Aus polys) follow the same guideline. The system has been compacted and shrinked to include only the relevant portion of the education and not everything under the hood like in Singapore and make them get grades in exams...This emphasis on grades is not the right way to enhance education because it will mainly make the students study for the grade rather than gaining fruitful insight on watever they are learning,..it also explains why singaprean students are stressed
Singapore education thinks that by making u study everything under the hood, it makes one clever cos thats not true. The implementation, at best is shoddy...
i am sure the feeling is mutual; i.e. singapore tertiary insti of aussie unis.
so you are saying all the chaps who sent their kids to singapore to school, the entire schooling population are all down the wrong path?
australia school is perfect? what you know that hundreds of thousands of parents and school going kids doesn't?
stop deluding yourself and get over your australia is `best in everything' mentality. each system fulfil a certain needs, no less singapore's and australia's.
aus school are good in many areas, no doubt about it. otherwise, i would not have decided to move my kids over there to study. but i don't think it is perfect. neither is singapore's. for all the grouses and complaints i have regarding the present system, i think there are merits too in the schooling system here.
so get off from your high horses about australia good this, good that, becos it certainly isn't in every area, no less education.
Enough already... US education is the best! Singapore Uni are for bookworms and aristocrat wannabes; Aussie Uni are for lazy bump-arounds who wants a short-cut to a tertiary education
In my years of interviewing and hiring, except of the very few bright ones (mostly NUS; NTU students are geeks), most local graduates think that just because they have a local degree, the world owes them a living.
Beside US graduates, those who did their degree part-time usually turn out better too and probably why SMU students are catching my attention and preferred over NUS and NTU grads. Aussies? They come in and tell you they know everything but expect others to do their work for them. I’ve hired a few and fired just as many.
For me.. US is first choice, follow-by SMU, then part-timers and then probably UK graduates. Local grads have to try really, really hard to get my attention and trust.
But that’s just my view as an hiring manager…
Originally posted by Melbournite:It not being protectionist, its because NUS is not the best according to the Aussie. If u studied in Aussie uni, u would have realised that it indeed closely linked with the working world. Also note that those who applying PR in Aus, from NUS u need 5 years of work expereince in singapore or elsewhere and if u studied in Aus uni, the requirement is only 1 year. So why the huge difference, its because 3 years uni in Aus practically taught u everything about the working world...
u will reliase that it forces u to think,interact and be mor free with your mind and not memorise facts and figures ( a bore chore) and study for exams like a mad fool...Its true Aus tertiary is world class...Do u know why , its because their education is interlinked with the current trends in the job market research. So in fact something u studying is 100 % relevant to the working world, and its been regularly reviewed by the Aus Govt. Even those TAFE institutions ( Aus polys) follow the same guideline. The system has been compacted and shrinked to include only the relevant portion of the education and not everything under the hood like in Singapore and make them get grades in exams...This emphasis on grades is not the right way to enhance education because it will mainly make the students study for the grade rather than gaining fruitful insight on watever they are learning,..it also explains why singaprean students are stressed
Singapore education thinks that by making u study everything under the hood, it makes one clever cos thats not true. The implementation, at best is shoddy...
It is immigration policy for the 5 years working experience if one holds a relevant foreign degree. It has absolutely nothing to do with NUS being a lesser Uni than Aussie Unis.
And if you are holding a relevant Aussie degree, why would u need 1 year working experience to get a PR. Is it because your degree is not a "Occupation in demand" degree like accountacy? Do you know what is Skills in Demand?
Aussie Unis also emphasize on grades. Then why do they have a grading system (HD, D, Credits, Pass, Fail). Why are those who graduates with honours and HD immediately offered jobs by big Corporations in Oz?
Personally having underwent 2 different educational systems, I do not think NUS is lacking as compared to Aussie Unis. I am so very grateful for having the chance to experiece the world class education I received from NUS, 'cos it makes my postgraduate studies in Melbourne a breeze....
Given the chance to choose again, I will still want to take my Bachelor in NUS. (I was only a mediocre student in NUS.) WHY? Because it gave me a very strong Foundation (including analytical thinking) that I can relate to the working world, be it in Singapore or Australia.
Hi Melbournite
Did U watch ABC channel last nite.....was on Education being the 3rd biggest industry in Oz.... abt how they charge high fees for foreigners to study in Oz.... Just wondering if the Unis here are run to generate revenue, then would they be world class standard....or would the standard be compromise so as to award degrees to more high fee paing foreigners....
I was told it is easier for a foreigner than a local to get into Oz Unis 'cos foreigner is a full fee paying student.
Originally posted by redDUST:i know and have been to NASA in texas. can i make general judgement about that outfit?
you distort yourself again. you talk about getting a (lack of) education in nus, i rebutted you on that point. why are you bringing up about nus being the best? can you ever stick to a discussion and not meander as you often have?
thanks for your comment on big mac. you just contradicted yourself.
Surely if you have been to NASA in texas, you can say something about NASA, good or bad, or you would be wasting all the time you spent in there. Have I been to the Min of Home Affairs in Singapore? of course not, but from what's happened in there, I'd say many people in there are sleeping, no? you sounds like SM Goh, who onces said to Catherine Lim, "if you haven't been in politics, don't talk to me about it." Surely you are not from the PAP, but may be it is because you and SM Goh came from the same university, NUS, no?
You said NUS is the best, I asked how did you qualify that? a new topic perhaps, but do you change your mind about NUS being the best now?
ou sounds like SM Goh, who onces said to Catherine Lim, "if you haven't been in politics, don't talk to me about it."
That is very arrogant talk from Goh Chok Tong.
Very cocky.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
This is true. Electronic and Electrical Engineering, mechanical engineering graduates will not find, or will find little relevance in the Singapore industries. Friends of mine landed in jobs as Bullion Traders, with degree in mechanical. But those doing chemical engineering are having good times in Singapore, many do internship in many of the petroleum and petro chemicals plants in Jurong island. Can't tell about their skills but Exxon Mobil, Shell are recruiting fresh graduates in chemical engineering to groom them, or nurture them....like the government scholars.
Electronic and Electrical Engineering, mechanical engineering graduates will not find, or will find little relevance in the Singapore industries.
Are you very very sure?
Originally posted by Tammiemeow:Hi Melbournite
Did U watch ABC channel last nite.....was on Education being the 3rd biggest industry in Oz.... abt how they charge high fees for foreigners to study in Oz.... Just wondering if the Unis here are run to generate revenue, then would they be world class standard....or would the standard be compromise so as to award degrees to more high fee paing foreigners....
I was told it is easier for a foreigner than a local to get into Oz Unis 'cos foreigner is a full fee paying student.
whether foreigner or local, u still need to meet the desired standard of performance for admssion from the tertiary institutions in Aus. They have a classiifcation of levels of various countries for international students for eg. Singapore and US are considered level 1 and pretty assured they meet the required standard in AUs. And they usualy give priority to locals first and the leftover places which are not filled from the local population are given to foreigners who can generate revenue who dont matter at all to their country. it is Australia u are talking about no messing around in that place.
No one told u foreigner is a full fee paying student and thus getting a place easier. its becuae australia has more Unis than singapore and they have lots of places available. That does not mean any tom, dick joe and harry can get a place so easily.
But in Singapore, although all the places can be 100% filled with the local population alone, places are still given to international studens and all these done under a system called meritocracy..Now this is what we call revenue generating for what is obviously a profit oriented institution. Now u tell me poly grads who succesfully graduated from poly passing all requirements , why are they still refused a place in NUS and NTU?
IBut isnt that the same scenario in singapore too?...Foreigners getting into local Uni when someone who studied his whole life locally cant get in even though passing the requirements?
Originally posted by Tammiemeow:
It is immigration policy for the 5 years working experience if one holds a relevant foreign degree. It has absolutely nothing to do with NUS being a lesser Uni than Aussie Unis.And if you are holding a relevant Aussie degree, why would u need 1 year working experience to get a PR. Is it because your degree is not a "Occupation in demand" degree like accountacy? Do you know what is Skills in Demand?
Aussie Unis also emphasize on grades. Then why do they have a grading system (HD, D, Credits, Pass, Fail). Why are those who graduates with honours and HD immediately offered jobs by big Corporations in Oz?
Personally having underwent 2 different educational systems, I do not think NUS is lacking as compared to Aussie Unis. I am so very grateful for having the chance to experiece the world class education I received from NUS, 'cos it makes my postgraduate studies in Melbourne a breeze....
Given the chance to choose again, I will still want to take my Bachelor in NUS. (I was only a mediocre student in NUS.) WHY? Because it gave me a very strong Foundation (including analytical thinking) that I can relate to the working world, be it in Singapore or Australia.
think first before u talk. because occupations in demand get a PR instantly? I dont think so now with the current rules u still ned to work 900 hours to get that PR, do u know that?,,,
The reason why u need 1 year of expereince if u studied in their local Uni is because unlike singapore uni, their are tied in to t e workplace and u learn a lot more staff about law and legislation regarding the country.
Originally posted by eagle:Are you very very sure?
I am sure from the few engineering undergrads' complaints about the lack of opportunities for internship, I know it for sure in the petrochemical industries that Chemical engineers are much preferred over mechanical and electrical engineers. But that is from the few I know, and the petrochemical industries only.
I can be wrong. I don't know about all the other industries.
Originally posted by Melbournite:whether foreigner or local, u still need to meet the desired standard of performance for admssion from the tertiary institutions in Aus. They have a classiifcation of levels of various countries for international students for eg. Singapore and US are considered level 1 and pretty assured they meet the required standard in AUs. And they usualy give priority to locals first and the leftover places which are not filled from the local population are given to foreigners who can generate revenue who dont matter at all to their country. it is Australia u are talking about no messing around in that place.
No one told u foreigner is a full fee paying student and thus getting a place easier. its becuae australia has more Unis than singapore and they have lots of places available. That does not mean any tom, dick joe and harry can get a place so easily.
But in Singapore, although all the places can be 100% filled with the local population alone, places are still given to international studens and all these done under a system called meritocracy..Now this is what we call revenue generating for what is obviously a profit oriented institution. Now u tell me poly grads who succesfully graduated from poly passing all requirements , why are they still refused a place in NUS and NTU?
IBut isnt that the same scenario in singapore too?...Foreigners getting into local Uni when someone who studied his whole life locally cant get in even though passing the requirements?
Referring to your statement, R u not contradicting yourself....Only the best from the polys were offered places in NUS and NTU. Personally, I have known of a few TOP 5% in polys who were offered places in our local Unis.
Just like, not all JC students who pass 3 "A" levels were offered places in NUS, NTU or SMU.
U yourself stated S'pore system is called meritocracy, so you have technically answered what is the difference. There is no need for me to first think, then talk, 'cos your contradictorty arguments shows all....
Originally posted by redDUST:i guess it is just the regulation aussie imposed on non-aus grad. i think a bit protectionist as well.
i am just reinforcing robert's point, partly in fun because what he said is the truth, not necessarily sensible. do you need to show your kangoo-phile uglyhead and defend australia uni at all costs? the world is big enuf for all to co-exist.
`nus grad is close to nothing' another strong statement from you that you will never be able to justify.
To Melbournite,
I fully agreed with redDust's opinions.
I feel that it is extremely rude to tell another to first think, then talk, especially if you are trying so hard to paint the impression that you come from an Aussie Uni that makes NUS looks like close to nothing...
Is this the attitude that one pick up at Aussie Unis.... Strange...Never notice this among my classmates in Mel. Maybe they are more gracious people who can indulge in a healthy discussion where everyone is entitled to their own opinions, without coming across as condescending.
I rest my case.
Originally posted by Tammiemeow:Referring to your statement, R u not contradicting yourself....Only the best from the polys were offered places in NUS and NTU. Personally, I have known of a few TOP 5% in polys who were offered places in our local Unis.
Just like, not all JC students who pass 3 "A" levels were offered places in NUS, NTU or SMU.
U yourself stated S'pore system is called meritocracy, so you have technically answered what is the difference. There is no need for me to first think, then talk, 'cos your contradictorty arguments shows all....
U said TOP 5%, let me tell u its top 5 % , get it? ..why all these selection criteria? it because there are not enough places and enough Unis , get that?...
But in AUS, recognition is given to prior learning and work expereince because this i believe is not meritocracy. Its true u need to meet certain requirements like English Language ect... thats basic, but what AUS does not really do is full meritocracy based on grades alone
Originally posted by Tammiemeow:To Melbournite,
I fully agreed with redDust's opinions.
I feel that it is extremely rude to tell another to first think, then talk, especially if you are trying so hard to paint the impression that you come from an Aussie Uni that makes NUS looks like close to nothing...
Is this the attitude that one pick up at Aussie Unis.... Strange...Never notice this among my classmates in Mel. Maybe they are more gracious people who can indulge in a healthy discussion where everyone is entitled to their own opinions, without coming across as condescending.
I rest my case.
I am talking about the straight facts that are in my face and your face as well.. Facts are already presented to why and what is happening as a situation. But people , giving opinions , just opinions are not stating facts. ok
I still maintain that our education is still modelled after AUS, UK and US education. I dont thinkwithin 49 years we had our own system so suddenly without the help of our outside world. Get it?
So NUS did not came up living a 100 year old life like Adelaide Uni. NUS is just replicating the education industry in the world which is coming from the commonwealth system
Originally posted by Tammiemeow:
It is immigration policy for the 5 years working experience if one holds a relevant foreign degree. It has absolutely nothing to do with NUS being a lesser Uni than Aussie Unis.And if you are holding a relevant Aussie degree, why would u need 1 year working experience to get a PR. Is it because your degree is not a "Occupation in demand" degree like accountacy? Do you know what is Skills in Demand?
Aussie Unis also emphasize on grades. Then why do they have a grading system (HD, D, Credits, Pass, Fail). Why are those who graduates with honours and HD immediately offered jobs by big Corporations in Oz?
Personally having underwent 2 different educational systems, I do not think NUS is lacking as compared to Aussie Unis. I am so very grateful for having the chance to experiece the world class education I received from NUS, 'cos it makes my postgraduate studies in Melbourne a breeze....
Given the chance to choose again, I will still want to take my Bachelor in NUS. (I was only a mediocre student in NUS.) WHY? Because it gave me a very strong Foundation (including analytical thinking) that I can relate to the working world, be it in Singapore or Australia.
Refer to ReD: so what if NUS grad gets all HD grades and when he applies for PR , why isnt Immi recognise him since he is from best UNI , NUS?
Big corporations of course will hire those grads but not all corporations. It depends on what field the graduate studied especially if its an occupation like IT, nursing or Enginnering where specialisation is needed. I believe grades are not all everything. But in this case in AUS, those who got the grades are able to get jobs easily because the employers knew that they excelled in the field needing specialisation which i said earlier is tied in to the workplace. But that doesnt mean average grades are lousy in AUS, get it?
That average grade graduate student may have a higher level of EQ than IQ of the HD grade graduate.
we dont want certain "graduate" who is paranoid, and say conspiracies to do us all in ect ect..