SM Goh confident PAP will eventually win back Hougang
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And how are they gonna win back Hougang? By rigging the polls as usual?
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i hope the people are mentally strong to decide what party they want in these wards. please do not be tricked into free things or gifts, as you will need to cough out eventually. i have a strong feeling that Aljunied GRC will be gone to OPPOSITION the next election, please watch closely.
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...provided that grc is not...POOF!
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Maybe going to redraw the GRC bundary again?
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do u know that government systems originated from the mafia.
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Originally posted by 333225520:
Maybe going to redraw the GRC bundary again?
Hahahaha its like a game to them. At any point if they fail they can "Restart" the game. bunch of m0fos.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
i would like to add that as unsavoury as that is, it's done EVERYWHERE in the world where people vote..
that's the downside of democracy..
Oh no not here in Indonesia at least. I'm sure not in America as well.
That's the downside of only Singapore's democracy. But then again can it be called democracy while in fact it is not? The republic is just a name.
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oh, so winning back hougang is far more important to PAP as compared to the massive displacement of singaporeans and their livelihood due to the massive influx of FTs as permitted by the PAP?
people, grow some brain!
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Originally posted by fishbuff1:
oh, so winning back hougang is far more important to PAP as compared to the massive displacement of singaporeans and their livelihood due to the massive influx of FTs as permitted by the PAP?
people, grow some brain!
did pap prioritize that in that order? pls do not make sweeping statement.if you recall, gct was task in the last election to take back the oppo wards. the $m `bribe' didn't work in either constituents. i reckon this is still gct's pet project within pap. he has no other option but to sing the same tune.
cowbay got it right becos gct did not put a timeframe to it. it may be well after gct expired. the occasion he made the speech was the national day dinner or something like that. in a oppo ward, gct has little leverage of what to say there, other than `we can win back'.
in fact, i think we can dismiss this as nothing but mere rhetorics.
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what are the chances of SM Goh running the election campaign in Hougang Ward?
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Originally posted by eagle:
what are the chances of SM Goh running the election campaign in Hougang Ward?
i think zero. pap will not risk a defeat of seismic proportion by risking an ex-pm.
also, `important' consti like marine parade will be left with a gaping hole without him.
but you are right, to wrestle hougang from the oppo, you need considerable `weight' to topple ltk.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i think zero. pap will not risk a defeat of seismic proportion by risking an ex-pm.
also, `important' consti like marine parade will be left with a gaping hole without him.
but you are right, to wrestle hougang from the oppo, you need considerable `weight' to topple ltk.
yes risky for them but if theyr desperate, they might need to take the risk. but me thinks they wont.
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Originally posted by eagle:
what are the chances of SM Goh running the election campaign in Hougang Ward?
You think he dare to challenge the opposition there? In the last election, the big PAP guns went to help campaign at Hougang, dangled carrots in front of the voters and still lost! At the last election, they also revealed Potong Pasir Town Council's finances and queried Chiam on accounting. Now SM Goh again brought up the accounting at oppostion wards Town Councils. So much talk but have they shown us the accounts at the Town Councils in PAP Wards! -
Dear Forumers,
SM Goh is quite a nice person actuali,to be honest.
But somehow everything in Singapore has changed so much and we are kind of hard to adapt. I really hope the present goverment will do more things to ease burden of the Singapore citizen and not increasing their personal income.
I think we got enough reserves in the bank and this should be use to assist the people and i see no point saving so much and dont put it to use. Prices of everything is increasing every single day, and this will constitute to the anger and the suffering of the people.If PAP only think of getting back a constitution and foregoing the suffering of the whole nation. This is definitely a wrong message sent out to the people.
Come next election, i will still be hoping for the ang pows, but i know that will not be enough, coz the living standard nowadays really pushing alot of people to the limit.
Pls be wise PAP.
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"he said eventually.....not next election
"Well, PAP can win Hougang but may lose a GRC come next election too....
Since when SM Goh is...
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This kayu, whatever and whenever he said and done, I was very disappointed with such an asshole!!!went middle east and came back empty handed.
Is he dieing in the future? the answer is sure!!!! can PAP take over Hougang?yes , it is the matter of time!!! but what and whosoever he recommended, we have hestiation like a drunkard MP at JC,drinking the whole day n 9 and fucking ard like a bee!!!!
i think Joo Chiat will be a gone case in next election!!!
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ya, look at how they manage joo chiat...horrible to see, the value of the property definitely went down due to all those sleezy bars.
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Goh Chok Tong’s remarks on role of opposition raises many alarm bells
Written by Ng E-Jay
27 July 2008Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong’s recent remarks on the role of the opposition in Singapore are certainly thought-provoking. But in my mind, they also raise many alarm bells which concern me deeply.
Goh Chok Tong was speaking about the role of the opposition at a National Day dinner in Hougang SMC on Saturday night (26 July). The following excerpts are taken from a CNA report entitled “SM Goh confident PAP will eventually win back Hougang” published online on the same night as well as a Straits Times article entitled “SM: Tweaks to system yes, but the core must remain” published on 27 July. My own comments follow each excerpt.
Goh Chok Tong said that Singapore’s political system must change to keep pace with an evolving society, yet there are certain things that must not change. “Whatever the refinements we may make to our political system down the road, some core principles must remain the same,” he said.
So what are those core principles that must remain constant? Goh Chok Tong said, “One, any changes must be fair to all parties and give them an equal chance to contest and win; two, they must not lead to democratic chaos and politics of division; and three, they must not put Singapore’s unity and harmony, growth and prosperity and long-term interests at risk.”
On the surface, Goh Chok Tong’s statement appears very reasonable. But let’s dig slightly deeper.
Firstly, is the current political system fair to the opposition? My answer is a firm NO. While the GRC system is ostensibly created to give minority candidates a level playing field, in reality it has put the opposition at a disadvantage because the opposition does not have the same kind of access to resources and manpower as the PAP. Over the years we have seen the GRCs get bigger and bigger, and now there are even monster 6-member GRCs. This is blatantly unfair for the opposition.
The Elections Department is still under the Prime Minister’s Office, and the PAP can redraw electoral boundaries at their own discretion. Electoral deposits have also increased to as high as $13,500 per candidate, which imposes a financial burden on opposition candidates who have to raise large amounts of funds just to contest in elections.
If the electoral system is to be made fair to all parties, then it must undergo serious reform.
Secondly, what does Goh Chok Tong mean when he says that political changes must not lead to chaos and politics of division? That to me is a very loaded statement.
Who defines what is chaos and politics of division? Is it the PAP themselves? If Singapore is to become a real democracy, then there must be open debate about political issues, and opposition parties must be free to contest and free to provide a robust challenge to the ruling party. Who decides what is fair debate, and what is divisive politics? It cannot be the ruling party that decides. It must be the people who decide through the ballot box as well as by speaking up individually.
It is high time that the PAP stops insinuating that free debate and competition has the tendency to degenerate into chaos and divisive politics.
More importantly, we should recognize that some amount of conflict will arise in an open society where people are free to debate on any issue, and this is not necessarily bad for the nation. If Singapore is to be a mature democracy, it must learn to handle such conflicts as they arise in a manner that does not involve repression or discrimination. The PAP must stop babysitting the nation if we are to grow up politically. More pertinently, the PAP must stop using babysitting as an excuse to further entrench its monopoly on political ideology.
Goh Chok Tong noted that the opposition parliamentarian for Hougang SMC since 1991, Low Thia Khiang, believes his job is just to ask questions and check the ruling party, but not to offer solutions to problems. The Senior Minister said this is a rather narrow view of the role of an opposition.
He also said, “Ideally, our political system should facilitate the emergence of a strong, effective government after every election and a responsible, constructive opposition. But no matter how you design it … there is no guarantee because it depends on whether good, honest and competent people come forward to stand for elections and the wisdom of the electorate when they cast their ballot.”
Again, this statement looks reasonable on the surface, but the question remains: Has the PAP been walking its talk?
There has been a gradual de-politicization of the electorate since Singapore’s independence, no thanks to the PAP’s repressive and authoritarian style of government that discourages free and unfettered dialogue about political issues and criticism of the PAP. To this day, the PAP Government is still winning defamation suits against political opponents, has a monopoly on the mainstream media which it uses to its advantage, and uses repressive laws that restrict the freedom of the people to assemble in public or speak freely. In this oppressive culture, the growth of the opposition is hampered, and people entering opposition politics sometimes have to pay a heavy price.
A responsible, constructive opposition is necessary if there is to be political plurality in Singapore. But the PAP’s definition of what is responsible and constuctive opposition is at odds with my own. The PAP’s notion of a constructive opposition is one that works within the system and always speaks with a moderate voice. This to me is not a constructive opposition, but a sham opposition.
A constructive opposition to me is one that dares to challenge the system where the system is flawed, and speak out vociferously against laws and rules that are manifestly unjust. An opposition that merely works within the system is one that will support the system rather than change it.
The sad reality is that the PAP Government has been slowly indoctrinating in the people its own notion of what constitutes a good opposition. But the PAP’s own idea of a good opposition is one that will merely provide token resistance to its policies, and further entrench its own power and preserve its political hegemony. Singapore needs political opposition that will challenge, not preserve, the PAP’s grip on power.
Goh Chok Tong also warned that democracy does not guarantee an effective Parliament. Citing Taiwan as an example to bolster his point, he said, “Taiwan’s democracy is more liberal than ours. But it has divided the society.”
My view is that Singapore has been economically successful, not because of the lack of liberal democracy, but in spite of it. There is no guarantee that state of affairs will last forever, and that is why liberal democracy has to be advanced in Singapore, so as to give Singapore citizens the right to self-determination and the ability to peacefully vote out an incompetent incumbent.
Democracy in itself will not bring economic success or cultural maturity to a nation. But we should stop attempting to pursue these at the expense of democracy, because it is unjustified in principle and increasingly untenable in practice in the age of the Internet.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Goh Chok Tong’s remarks on role of opposition raises many alarm bells
Written by Ng E-Jay
27 July 2008Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong’s recent remarks on the role of the opposition in Singapore are certainly thought-provoking. But in my mind, they also raise many alarm bells which concern me deeply.
Goh Chok Tong was speaking about the role of the opposition at a National Day dinner in Hougang SMC on Saturday night (26 July). The following excerpts are taken from a CNA report entitled “SM Goh confident PAP will eventually win back Hougang” published online on the same night as well as a Straits Times article entitled “SM: Tweaks to system yes, but the core must remain” published on 27 July. My own comments follow each excerpt.
Goh Chok Tong said that Singapore’s political system must change to keep pace with an evolving society, yet there are certain things that must not change. “Whatever the refinements we may make to our political system down the road, some core principles must remain the same,” he said.
So what are those core principles that must remain constant? Goh Chok Tong said, “One, any changes must be fair to all parties and give them an equal chance to contest and win; two, they must not lead to democratic chaos and politics of division; and three, they must not put Singapore’s unity and harmony, growth and prosperity and long-term interests at risk.”
On the surface, Goh Chok Tong’s statement appears very reasonable. But let’s dig slightly deeper.
Firstly, is the current political system fair to the opposition? My answer is a firm NO. While the GRC system is ostensibly created to give minority candidates a level playing field, in reality it has put the opposition at a disadvantage because the opposition does not have the same kind of access to resources and manpower as the PAP. Over the years we have seen the GRCs get bigger and bigger, and now there are even monster 6-member GRCs. This is blatantly unfair for the opposition.
The Elections Department is still under the Prime Minister’s Office, and the PAP can redraw electoral boundaries at their own discretion. Electoral deposits have also increased to as high as $13,500 per candidate, which imposes a financial burden on opposition candidates who have to raise large amounts of funds just to contest in elections.
If the electoral system is to be made fair to all parties, then it must undergo serious reform.
Secondly, what does Goh Chok Tong mean when he says that political changes must not lead to chaos and politics of division? That to me is a very loaded statement.
Who defines what is chaos and politics of division? Is it the PAP themselves? If Singapore is to become a real democracy, then there must be open debate about political issues, and opposition parties must be free to contest and free to provide a robust challenge to the ruling party. Who decides what is fair debate, and what is divisive politics? It cannot be the ruling party that decides. It must be the people who decide through the ballot box as well as by speaking up individually.
It is high time that the PAP stops insinuating that free debate and competition has the tendency to degenerate into chaos and divisive politics.
More importantly, we should recognize that some amount of conflict will arise in an open society where people are free to debate on any issue, and this is not necessarily bad for the nation. If Singapore is to be a mature democracy, it must learn to handle such conflicts as they arise in a manner that does not involve repression or discrimination. The PAP must stop babysitting the nation if we are to grow up politically. More pertinently, the PAP must stop using babysitting as an excuse to further entrench its monopoly on political ideology.
Goh Chok Tong noted that the opposition parliamentarian for Hougang SMC since 1991, Low Thia Khiang, believes his job is just to ask questions and check the ruling party, but not to offer solutions to problems. The Senior Minister said this is a rather narrow view of the role of an opposition.
He also said, “Ideally, our political system should facilitate the emergence of a strong, effective government after every election and a responsible, constructive opposition. But no matter how you design it … there is no guarantee because it depends on whether good, honest and competent people come forward to stand for elections and the wisdom of the electorate when they cast their ballot.”
Again, this statement looks reasonable on the surface, but the question remains: Has the PAP been walking its talk?
There has been a gradual de-politicization of the electorate since Singapore’s independence, no thanks to the PAP’s repressive and authoritarian style of government that discourages free and unfettered dialogue about political issues and criticism of the PAP. To this day, the PAP Government is still winning defamation suits against political opponents, has a monopoly on the mainstream media which it uses to its advantage, and uses repressive laws that restrict the freedom of the people to assemble in public or speak freely. In this oppressive culture, the growth of the opposition is hampered, and people entering opposition politics sometimes have to pay a heavy price.
A responsible, constructive opposition is necessary if there is to be political plurality in Singapore. But the PAP’s definition of what is responsible and constuctive opposition is at odds with my own. The PAP’s notion of a constructive opposition is one that works within the system and always speaks with a moderate voice. This to me is not a constructive opposition, but a sham opposition.
A constructive opposition to me is one that dares to challenge the system where the system is flawed, and speak out vociferously against laws and rules that are manifestly unjust. An opposition that merely works within the system is one that will support the system rather than change it.
The sad reality is that the PAP Government has been slowly indoctrinating in the people its own notion of what constitutes a good opposition. But the PAP’s own idea of a good opposition is one that will merely provide token resistance to its policies, and further entrench its own power and preserve its political hegemony. Singapore needs political opposition that will challenge, not preserve, the PAP’s grip on power.
Goh Chok Tong also warned that democracy does not guarantee an effective Parliament. Citing Taiwan as an example to bolster his point, he said, “Taiwan’s democracy is more liberal than ours. But it has divided the society.”
My view is that Singapore has been economically successful, not because of the lack of liberal democracy, but in spite of it. There is no guarantee that state of affairs will last forever, and that is why liberal democracy has to be advanced in Singapore, so as to give Singapore citizens the right to self-determination and the ability to peacefully vote out an incompetent incumbent.
Democracy in itself will not bring economic success or cultural maturity to a nation. But we should stop attempting to pursue these at the expense of democracy, because it is unjustified in principle and increasingly untenable in practice in the age of the Internet.
First, it started with Lee h loong, next is his father lky and now we have Goh choke tong joining them to be paranoid about the oppositions. If PAP are on the right track governing Singapore, oppositions will not pose any threat to them.
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I think PAP is feeling more and more insecure about their grip on power.
If they keep making noise about opposition, it shows that they are secretly fearful.
Once Lee Kuan Yew dies, we will have a good show in politics at last.
This fucking autocratic PAP rule.
PAP fuckers, in power for 50 years.
Still want to rule somemore.
I think PAP should fuck off.
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These days PAP are getting more fearful, insecure, paranoid where oppositions are concerned. They refuse to improve in the way they govern Singapore but point fingers at oppositions. If they are so confident that majority of the Singaporeans are happy with the way they run Singapore they need not be fearful, insecure and paranoid. Si dao ling dou hai bu yao hui gai, zen shi wu yao ke jiu.
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First of all, we have to acknowledge the fact that LKY had brought SG this far. Though enpowerment and richness, he had lost the good government that all had been enjoying and the reign had became more and more like a tyrant reign.
What he did, does not constitute to the amount that the gahmen body is drawing each month. The money that they drew are so much higher than even the biggest developed country in the world. Such money can be placed in better use for the benefit of the society.
Controlling media is a good thing to filter out what the public should learn about but to turn the media into garbage and hiding their secrets is another thing. They should know in the modern age, the yound adult no longer base their knowledge on the local media itself but have a wider source, like the internet.
It is time for PAP to step down or maybe not. SG need new blood and nothing of the old and corrupted blood... Seriously, I would take my chance with a gahmen like SG did when it broke free from british ruling... And wasn't it by public display and riots that brought the british down? That is why opposition were not given a chance in doing so...
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I feel that the people now being 1st world citizens are expecting , at least, the following and more than just economic achievements.
1. ACCOUNTABILITY
2. TRANSPARENCY
3. Basic FREEDOM for other aspects ;)
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Originally posted by citymax:
Dear Forumers,
SM Goh is quite a nice person actuali,to be honest.
I know SM Goh is a nice person,......
but nice until LKY mistreat him in the past he can also forgive n then "forget" n dont know how to "bite" back,
nice until he can be easily "brainwashed" by LKY
nice until he can be easily "manipulated" by LKY
That is something not so "nice" already.
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But Goh was recruited into PAP and brought into Singapore political life by Lee Kuan Yew.