Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out
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Sydney is very pricey,a SG migrant just found out.
I hope he shall not be suprised,or else he failed as a head of family!!
How much research how he done before up rooting
the family ?Did he just rely on friends/relatives advices?
It will be unfortunate that he just know the mortgage rate is
9.25 % and no public housing there in Sydney!!
As a rule of thumb,public housing in western countries
usually very undesirable.Dunt take HDB living for granted,
though not perfect.
I do hope before u move to any country,u have do some home
works ,like--
stay there for 3 weeks before u make the decision
know the daily life as good as locals,even u are in Singapore
know the price of rices to mortgage interest rates
know the drugs and crimes situations
(in some countries,kids can get drugs as easy as getting
a Coke)
read few daily newspaper for few months,every day.
''S’pore not that pricey''
myepaper.mypaper.sg
28.07.2008
MY FAMILY recently
moved to Sydney, Australia,
and we are still
trying to come to terms with the
high cost of living here.
The prices of most staples,
such as bread and rice, are double
those in Singapore.
To give you an idea of how expensive
the Australian city is,
here are more examples of the
prices of some common items
and services.
A five-minute bus trip costs
A$1.80 (S$2.30) and a one-station
train journey sets one back
by A$2.60 – one way. A
10-minute taxi ride can be as
costly as A$8.
The cheapest newspaper
costs A$1, while a movie ticket
is about A$12. A simple meal of
noodles can cost as much as
A$6.50.
As for homes, a two-bedroom
apartment in the suburb
costs about A$350 a week to
rent, and that does not include
any furnishings. To live within
5km of the city, one must be prepared
to fork out at least A$600
a week.
If one wants to own a home
here, it costs about A$400,000,
with a mortgage repayment interest
rate of 9.25 per cent per
annum.
So far, I have not come
across any government housing.
Due to the high cost of dining
out, my family eats out only
once or twice a week. Eating out
at a food court, for example,
costs about A$30 to A$40 for a
family of three.
On the plus side, however,
we have more family time together,
as we cook at home and
brainstorm ideas to make homecooked
meals delicious.
Moving to Australia has
made me realise something: We
should not grumble too much
about the cost of living in Singapore.
Many cities in the world have
high costs of living, but in Singapore
we have world-class infrastructure
and facilities at relatively
reasonable prices. It is no
wonder that many foreigners
want to settle in Singapore.
Mr Gilbert Goh Keow Wah
Sydney, Australia -
what he is presenting is just one side of the story, but the high amount u pay for comes back to u in the form of pension when u are old, AusStudy for your children and unemployment benefits. AUD 400 K for a house is subjective as the property market over there rises and drops ...But u will own the home for life and he doesnt have to pay his whole life too. His children may be paying the remainder after him. So what is he complaining about?
I am still in favour of the Aussie system. its a system that takes from u initially but gives u when u are in need yourself. But why did he have to choose Sydney?... There are other places around which are dirt cheap like Adelaide ect...
He is new to Aus. Intially such gripes are normal and common, but as time goes by he wll realise that he will like it there...As always he can earn a high income there and buy a home in singapore too...stick to rental while he is in Aus.
And what work is he doing is not stated too...If he can move to Aus, means i presume he is a highly skilled person.
I am survivng in Melbourne on $700 per month, and i am earning lots per month.. I still have a hige disposable income myself. as always there will be people like him who do comparisons to singapore on the minor details and lose out seeing the big picture. In Aus, everything from education to working always see things with regard to the big picture, unlike in Singapore.
Things that he can find in AUS not found in Singapore:
Austudy for children
subsidised Medical care
subsidised Tertiary study
Old age payments - Very Important
Landed home for 400K - Good value compared to Singapore's 1.2 million landed properties
Cheap car - very important and perfectly better than in singapore
better work opportunities - Very important
-
Just dumb propaganda to get Singaporeans pissed scared of the world around them.
Look,
there are plenty of houses which are less than A$600 a week, 3 bedders, in suburbs around the 5km way. You just have to know where to look, look often and stop being so damn negative.
Even right now is just an overinflated property bubble happening, waiting to burst, having a $500,000 3 bedroom house with a backyard still beats a $450,000 4 room HDB flat with cramped living quarters and no decent place to take a shit in peace without having the idea that 99 years later your kids have got to pay that all over again. Or if you're unfortunate to live longer than that, you have to pay it all over again.
2 years ago, it was 3%. Property works that way. Up, then down.But in Singapore, its relatively permanent. Either way, you're still screwed. Even if you compare the two scenarios, footing out cash for a mortgage on a nice landed property compared to SG, which is more than treble the cost, still wins you the winning hand.
In Australia, people don't take taxis much. At least, its not meant to be an everyday thing, like in Singapore.
I bet Indians and Thais who come to SG complain about how expensives taxis in Singapore are compared to the cheap tuk tuks which can get them efficiently anywhere they want. But its a cultural thing.
People in Australia buy cars. Yes, cars are cheap here. Very cheap. $20,000 nets you a good car. I can even find 2nd hand cars which work brilliantly and don't look like Mr. Bean's ancient Morris Minor, for less than $8000. Petrol may be expensive, but many people go for lpg, which is gas, and it costs just 60+ cents here.
Live like a local! Haven't you heard the saying, when in Rome?
In Singapore, everything centers on money, money, money. In Australia, honestly, though things are expensive, I spend more money in Singapore than I do in Australia. Why?
Because Singapore is one big commercial disneyland. Everything is centered upon the Singaporean going out and spending their hard earned cash on everything else. In Australia, I spend when I want, not because I'm compelled to by some lame marketing gimmick.I can do many things without paying a zillion dollars, and just like in SG, you get used to living like a local.
So what if a newspaper costs A$1 (c'mon, even this also want to complain, isn't it a bit much?)
) and a movie costs A$12?
How much do you get in salary? Dollar for dollar, I'd still vouch for Australia because my money goes a long way compared to Singapore.How much can your typical $1200 - $2500 salary go in SG?
You can't be eating out at a hawker centre everyday right? Minus mortgage, electricity, gas, water, television fees, cable telly, internet, phone, etc etc, do you honestly think that he is better off in Australia?
This fellow fails to compare many other factors which make Australia shine much brighter than Singapore.
And worse come to worse, thise guy will have welfare to rely on while he looks for another job.
-
Originally posted by GameGoddess:
Just dumb propaganda to get Singaporeans pissed scared of the world around them.
Look,
there are plenty of houses which are less than A$600 a week, 3 bedders, in suburbs around the 5km way. You just have to know where to look, look often and stop being so damn negative.
Even right now is just an overinflated property bubble happening, waiting to burst, having a $500,000 3 bedroom house with a backyard still beats a $450,000 4 room HDB flat with cramped living quarters and no decent place to take a shit in peace without having the idea that 99 years later your kids have got to pay that all over again. Or if you're unfortunate to live longer than that, you have to pay it all over again.
2 years ago, it was 3%. Property works that way. Up, then down.But in Singapore, its relatively permanent. Either way, you're still screwed. Even if you compare the two scenarios, footing out cash for a mortgage on a nice landed property compared to SG, which is more than treble the cost, still wins you the winning hand.
In Australia, people don't take taxis much. At least, its not meant to be an everyday thing, like in Singapore.
I bet Indians and Thais who come to SG complain about how expensives taxis in Singapore are compared to the cheap tuk tuks which can get them efficiently anywhere they want. But its a cultural thing.
People in Australia buy cars. Yes, cars are cheap here. Very cheap. $20,000 nets you a good car. I can even find 2nd hand cars which work brilliantly and don't look like Mr. Bean's ancient Morris Minor, for less than $8000. Petrol may be expensive, but many people go for lpg, which is gas, and it costs just 60+ cents here.
Live like a local! Haven't you heard the saying, when in Rome?
In Singapore, everything centers on money, money, money. In Australia, honestly, though things are expensive, I spend more money in Singapore than I do in Australia. Why?
Because Singapore is one big commercial disneyland. Everything is centered upon the Singaporean going out and spending their hard earned cash on everything else. In Australia, I spend when I want, not because I'm compelled to by some lame marketing gimmick.I can do many things without paying a zillion dollars, and just like in SG, you get used to living like a local.
So what if a newspaper costs A$1 (c'mon, even this also want to complain, isn't it a bit much?)
) and a movie costs A$12?
How much do you get in salary? Dollar for dollar, I'd still vouch for Australia because my money goes a long way compared to Singapore.How much can your typical $1200 - $2500 salary go in SG?
You can't be eating out at a hawker centre everyday right? Minus mortgage, electricity, gas, water, television fees, cable telly, internet, phone, etc etc, do you honestly think that he is better off in Australia?
This fellow fails to compare many other factors which make Australia shine much brighter than Singapore.
And worse come to worse, thise guy will have welfare to rely on while he looks for another job.
You call it a propaganda but yet you have failed to touch on the most expensive part of living, which is related to housing.
Australians household saving rate, like UK and USA, are currently at record low while debt/income ratio are at record high. What this means is that most household are heavily in debt due to mortgage.
Hence when you combine that with a 9.25% pa mortgage rate, you will see that whatever extra an Australian earn as compared to Singaporeans, actually goes back to the banks to pay off interest.
Debt-to-income
Saving ratio
Household gearing (ratio of debt-to-assets) by income
-
that guy seriously needs to do a reality check which is only possible if he stays in Australia for a year or so and at the same time keep his eyes and mind open to everything around him.
Australia is a much developed country in terms of social planning. So what if he comes back to s;pore, he will be enjoying world class facilities , yes but in the long run or when he is old, he will have to suffer the wrath of the system.
When he referred to the world class facilities, i am very sorry to say that Australia is a big country and they cant afford to have shiny and sexily designed trains , buses or buildings everywhere like in Singapore. Singapore does that because it wants to attract international input into its economy Firstly it will cost lots of money for the AUS govt to beautify their country like singapore. but what they have is a basic infrastructure, faclities which can cater for your bare minimum at least.
If they are going to spend so much onthis, their citizens will then have to go hungry. Instead such money is being usedfor social welfare and such. So tell me now which is a better idea?
-
Originally posted by O o O:
You call it a propaganda but yet you have failed to touch on the most expensive part of living, which is related to housing.
Australians household saving rate, like UK and USA, are currently at record low while debt/income ratio are at record high. What this means is that most household are heavily in debt due to mortgage.
Hence when you combine that with a 9.25% pa mortgage rate, you will see that whatever extra an Australian earn as compared to Singaporeans, actually goes back to the banks to pay off interest.
Debt-to-income
Saving ratio
Household gearing (ratio of debt-to-assets) by income
Isn't in singapore its the same sucky housing debt/ income ratio. But u are forgetting a catch, Aus propety market is not controlled like in s;pore, so this is perfectly normal as such uncontrolled system will result in peak highs and peak lows. Thats how free markets work.
Just wait and it will burst. Besides an important factor u must remember, In Aus, if a particular place is expensive to live in, u can choose to go somewhere else where its cheaper. But in Singapore u are trapped.
-
Originally posted by Melbournite:
that guy seriously needs to do a reality check which is only possible if he stays in Australia for a year or so and at the same time keep his eyes and mind open to everything around him.
Australia is a much developed country in terms of social planning. So what if he comes back to s;pore, he will be enjoying world class facilities , yes but in the long run or when he is old, he will have to suffer the wrath of the system.
When he referred to the world class facilities, i am very sorry to say that Australia is a big country and they cant afford to have shiny and sexily designed trains , buses or buildings everywhere like in Singapore. Singapore does that because it wants to attract international input into its economy Firstly it will cost lots of money for the AUS govt to beautify their country like singapore. but what they have is a basic infrastructure, faclities which can cater for your bare minimum at least.
If they are going to spend so much onthis, their citizens will then have to go hungry. Instead such money is being usedfor social welfare and such. So tell me now which is a better idea?
1) I believe the Gilbert Goh is only talking about Sydney, not NSW or the entire Australia wasteland.
2) The reason why Australia will not be able to run a cost effective public transport system is because of the high cost of labour which you have been glorifying and hence the poor, who cant afford cars, actually ends up paying for it.
3) You claim that when Singaporeans are old, we will suffer the wrath of the system. I bet to differ on that, I would think that Singaporeans living in Australia will suffer more because they cant afford to have a housemaid to take care of them and public healthcare system in Australia sucks!!! I guess you are not aware that the life expectancy of Singaporeans is actually much longer than Australians do you?
4) Australians government is spending loads of money into a system which is not cost effective and not sustainable, thats why they are finding it hard to duplicate Singapore system.
5) As for pension, you must first realise that Australia as a country is heavily in debt, and what you are paying in taxes actually goes straight into the hand of today's pensioners. Looking at the global trend on pension, i wont be surprise that the day you get to enjoy it, will be alot later than what you have planned for.
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They dun enbloc in sydney, the house you love wun be taken from you because of some greedy bugger.
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Originally posted by Melbournite:
that guy seriously needs to do a reality check which is only possible if he stays in Australia for a year or so and at the same time keep his eyes and mind open to everything around him.
Australia is a much developed country in terms of social planning. So what if he comes back to s;pore, he will be enjoying world class facilities , yes but in the long run or when he is old, he will have to suffer the wrath of the system.
When he referred to the world class facilities, i am very sorry to say that Australia is a big country and they cant afford to have shiny and sexily designed trains , buses or buildings everywhere like in Singapore. Singapore does that because it wants to attract international input into its economy Firstly it will cost lots of money for the AUS govt to beautify their country like singapore. but what they have is a basic infrastructure, faclities which can cater for your bare minimum at least.
If they are going to spend so much onthis, their citizens will then have to go hungry. Instead such money is being usedfor social welfare and such. So tell me now which is a better idea?
LOL.
Well, though I do think Singapore's trains do look and function better than Australia's trains (Melbourne ones at that. I used to think they look like they were made of garbage cans.) you're right we have to look at it from a balanced point of view.
O o O,
You can harp all your want about one aspect out of a hundred other just as important aspects which makes living in Australia superior and more secure than living in Singapore, but it won't absolve the point which is Australia is an overall much more secure place which ensures the welfare and well-being of their citizens.
They face their rocky moments but the intrinsic foundation of welfare and concern for the citizens is there, as compared to Singapore's foundation which is 'don't like? suck it up or screw you.' which leaves many Singaporeans stranded and left in the lurch with families to feed and no one to turn to, even after their precious tax money has been spent on ministers' salaries on mistresses and their elitist brat kids instead of to help them when they need it.
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Originally posted by Melbournite:
Isn't in singapore its the same sucky housing debt/ income ratio. But u are forgetting a catch, Aus propety market is not controlled like in s;pore, so this is perfectly normal as such uncontrolled system will result in peak highs and peak lows. Thats how free markets work.
Just wait and it will burst. Besides an important factor u must remember, In Aus, if a particular place is expensive to live in, u can choose to go somewhere else where its cheaper. But in Singapore u are trapped.
Thats is because you were made to believe that Singapore CPF system is flawed and that our month CPF contribution is similar to the income tax you are paying in australia. However the main difference is that CPF monies are part of our saving which we can use to pay off our mortgages and that itself will put us ahead of the high spending low saving australians who are paying 9.25% of interest.
Australians has got to thank their fore fathers for stealing the vast piece of land from the aborigine thats why they can now enjoy the wide open space in Australia. However as you have highlighted, when there is no proper control on the property and urband development such as public housing, the poor will get shifted out to far away land (like you have mentioned in your last para) that is poorly connected by public transport, while the rich will get to live by the nice sydney habour.
As for Singapore, we need proper planning to enjor racial harmony and better utilization of land. Plus we also ensure that Singaporeans living in 4 corners of the islands are well connected by clean, comfortable and affordable public transport system.
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Originally posted by O o O:
1) I believe the Gilbert Goh is only talking about Sydney, not NSW or the entire Australia wasteland.
2) The reason why Australia will not be able to run a cost effective public transport system is because of the high cost of labour which you have been glorifying and hence the poor, who cant afford cars, actually ends up paying for it.
3) You claim that when Singaporeans are old, we will suffer the wrath of the system. I bet to differ on that, I would think that Singaporeans living in Australia will suffer more because they cant afford to have a housemaid to take care of them and public healthcare system in Australia sucks!!! I guess you are not aware that the life expectancy of Singaporeans is actually much longer than Australians do you?
4) Australians government is spending loads of money into a system which is not cost effective and not sustainable, thats why they are finding it duplicate Singapore system.
5) As for pension, you must first realise that Australia as a country is heavily in debt, and what you are paying in taxes actually goes straight into the hand of today's pensioners. Looking at the global trend on pension, i wont be surprise that the day you get to enjoy it, will be alot later than what you have planned for.
O o O,
I sort of get where you're coming from but I would have to respectfully disagree with you.
Running a country is not like running a business. I get the impression you're likening Singapore as some huge Singapore Inc. and comparing it to Australia Inc. when you should be comparing it as the country itself, Singapore and Australia.
1)
You cannot compare Singapore's public transport system to Australia's transport system. Australia is the largest single continent in the world and Singapore is a small island.
Of course, putting money into making Singapore's train system look snazzy and run like clockwork and implementing improvements such as the E-Z link (which made me lose more money.
) is much easier to implement than a national-wide transport system which reaches even the hellish depths of ulu places Alice Springs, smack in the middle of the entire continent and a population of what? 64? <---guesstimate. But its very small.It costs millions upon millions upon millions and an army of people to make this work, plan and build trans-state lines, making them work effectively.
The vast scale of it cannot be compared to Singapore's system, which is admirable, sure, but its like comparing New York City to say, Brunei.
How can you possibly compare point to point? As much as Australia's transport system is "flawed" or whatever else people like to accuse it of, I can take the trains, trams, buses from point A to point B everyday in relative comfort in an allotted time frame and that's the whole point of a transport system!
Not the buses outfitted with blazing wings, or portable televisions, or spiked wheels, or trains looking like Heaven's clouds, or the Burj-Al-Arab in Dubai.And despite all that, they still can pay the people who built the tracks and roads, drive the buses and trains, a decent, proper wage so they can feed their families and enjoy a standard of living better than your average Singaporean bus driver still hoping to win that 4D he buys every week so he can stop driving those bloody buses and spend more time with his 16 year old kid.
Isn't that a feat in its own?
2)
Look around you. Dont close your eyes.
If the elderly are so well cared for in Singapore why do I have old uncles and aunties wiping my tables for me in food courts when I should be wiping their tables out of respect for their life's work being spent in Singapore only to have this happen to them?Its not just one food court. Its not just one hawker centre, one McDonalds, and one KFC.
They are everywhere. Old uncles and aunties. Where are their families?
I know you are implying they have their families take care of them but the truth is many Singaporeans are brought up in a westernised way but retaining the selfish Asian mentality of self-serving, self-survival, that they just throw their parents away and pretend they don't exist!What is Singapore doing to protect these people? Pensions? Nope. Welfare? Nope. Housing? Hardly. And very poor conditions.
I had an acquaintance, an elderly lady living in a one bedder apartment in disgusting conditions, complete squalor. She was old, in her late 60s' and collected cardboard and sort of "karung guni'ed" around the place trying to sell things.
I'd known her since I was a pre-teen. I asked her innocently one day, "Auntie, where are your children? Why don't they take care of you?"
And she looked at me sadly and said in a smattering of hokkien and mandarin, "Ah girl ah. No one take care of me. No one cares about an old popo like me." and she just looks away and goes into her own world of thoughts.Who knows? Her children abandoned her? The flat she lives in with another elderly lady who does God knows what.
What is the Government doing to help these poor elderly people? Whatever they are doing, its not helping. It didn't reach that old popo because she passed away the last time I visited.
So how many more elderly people have to pass away without ever seeing some form of welfare from the Government, if not to show concern for their plight, but at least to honour and thank them for their life's sacrifice into building Singapore, before someone does something?
In Australia,
Welfare pays for your rent in many cases, and pays out dole and elderly pensions. They also get heavily subsidized privileges like in public transport and such.
Honestly, at least in Australia being elderly doesn't mean looking helpless and defeatedly into thin air because no one gives a shit about you and wishes you just die quick so they can lease the apartment out to other people.
Being elderly in Australia means complaining about everything because you know things can change and will change because they have rights too.
4)
Australia can never duplicate the Singapore system because they are two different systems.
Singapore is a system made to exploit the lower classes for the benefit of the upper classes. That's how it is, and how its always been. Why do you think the blue collar workers of the past in Singapore took the pitch of them accepting lower wages, bait and all, to make them "competitive"?
Also, Singapore is a small country. Small system, for small country
Put that into a country as large as Australia I guarantee you, you'll have utter chaos.
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1) Australians don't make the kind of salaries Singaporeans make, they make 3 to 4 times that Singaporeans. So, don't use Singapore pay to live in Australia, it's foolish. Likewise when we visit countries like US, Japan, Europe, etc; Why do we feel that everything is expensive there, whereas citizens living there feel it's priced affordably. They get more salary than you.
2) There is some credibility issues with the author saying that rice and bread is double that of Singapore. In a free market economy (with no customs, taxes & restrictions), the price of a commodity must only have one price, else arbitrage opportunities exisit to bring the price to a common price.
Take the 10 kg Housebrand Jasmine Rice in Australia's Woolworth, it's priced at AUD18.34 (SGD23.84 @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), it's around SGD11.92 for a 5kg bag of rice. The price of First Choice 5kg Thai Rice is going for SGD13.20 at Cold Storage.
But take meat and milk for example, meat & milk is a whole lot cheaper than in Singapore. Australia has cattle farming, whereas Singapore has none, with the inclusion of shipping cost, the milk in Singapore has to be more expensive than Australia.
Pura Whole Milk in Woolsworth sells for AUD2.15 per litre (SGD2.80 @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), whereas Pura Whole Milk in Cold Storage sells for SGD3.40.
Australian Beef Shin Steak in Woolsworth cost AUD4.08 per 400gm (SGD13.26 per kilogram @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), whereas in Cold Storage Australian Shin Beef cost SGD33.10 per kilogram.
So, I question the credibility of the author and the intelligence of the TS in posting such a thread with no understanding of the principles of "Law of One Price". TS should exercise the use of his brains once in a while. If I produce beef in my house, will the cost to you (if you live in Jurong and me in Pasir Ris) be cheaper or will it be cheaper if I sell it to my neighbour. Singapore produces maybe 1% of food products, whereas Australia is a major producer of food products.
I thought I trashed out all these issues about cost of products and law of one price with lionnoisy in an earlier thread regarding more disposable income in Australia (despite having higher tax rates) than Singapore. Apparently he hasn't learnt anything from it.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
1) Australians don't make the kind of salaries Singaporeans make, they make 3 to 4 times that Singaporeans. So, don't use Singapore pay to live in Australia, it's foolish. Likewise when we visit countries like US, Japan, Europe, etc; Why do we feel that everything is expensive there, whereas citizens living there feel it's priced affordably. They get more salary than you.
2) There is some credibility issues with the author saying that rice and bread is double that of Singapore. In a free market economy (with no customs, taxes & restrictions), the price of a commodity must only have one price, else arbitrage opportunities exisit to bring the price to a common price.
Take the 10 kg Housebrand Jasmine Rice in Australia's Woolworth, it's priced at AUD18.34 (SGD23.84 @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), it's around SGD11.92 for a 5kg bag of rice. The price of First Choice 5kg Thai Rice is going for SGD13.20 at Cold Storage.
But take meat and milk for example, meat & milk is a whole lot cheaper than in Singapore. Australia has cattle farming, whereas Singapore has none, with the inclusion of shipping cost, the milk in Singapore has to be more expensive than Australia.
Pura Whole Milk in Woolsworth sells for AUD2.15 per litre (SGD2.80 @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), whereas Pura Whole Milk in Cold Storage sells for SGD3.40.
Australian Beef Shin Steak in Woolsworth cost AUD4.08 per 400gm (SGD13.26 per kilogram @ AUD1 = SGD1.3), whereas in Cold Storage Australian Shin Beef cost SGD33.10 per kilogram.
So, I question the credibility of the author and the intelligence of the TS in posting such a thread with no understanding of the principles of "Law of One Price". TS should exercise the use of his brains once in a while. If I produce beef in my house, will the cost to you (if you live in Jurong and me in Pasir Ris) be cheaper or will it be cheaper if I sell it to my neighbour. Singapore produces maybe 1% of food products, whereas Australia is a major producer of food products.
I thought I trashed out all these issues about cost of products and law of one price with lionnoisy in an earlier thread regarding more disposable income in Australia (despite having higher tax rates) than Singapore. Apparently he hasn't learnt anything from it.
I guess that's one fine way of putting the point across!
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Originally posted by GameGoddess:
Running a country is not like running a business. I get the impression you're likening Singapore as some huge Singapore Inc. and comparing it to Australia Inc. when you should be comparing it as the country itself, Singapore and Australia.
I am not sure how much you know about Singapore history and the vast difference in the natural resouces between both countries. AFAIK, Singapore started with $150m when we got kicked out by malaysia.
So based on your knowlegde and believe in running a country the australian way, what will you do differently to turn a fishing villiage into a global city like Singapore?
You cannot compare Singapore's public transport system to Australia's transport system. Australia is the largest single continent in the world and Singapore is a small island.
I would like to repeat that Gilbert Goh is comparing Singapore to Sydney, NOT NSW or the entire Australia wasteland.
Look around you. Dont close your eyes.
If the elderly are so well cared for in Singapore why do I have old uncles and aunties wiping my tables for me in food courts when I should be wiping their tables out of respect for their life's work being spent in Singapore only to have this happen to them?Its not just one food court. Its not just one hawker centre, one McDonalds, and one KFC.
They are everywhere. Old uncles and aunties. Where are their families?
I know you are implying they have their families take care of them but the truth is many Singaporeans are brought up in a westernised way but retaining the selfish Asian mentality of self-serving, self-survival, that they just throw their parents away and pretend they don't exist!As we all know, not matter which country you visit, there will always be poor and homeless people, hence I dont see why should we judge a country system based on selective individual. However I would say that Singaporeans should be proud that despite of their old age many would still prefer to keep themselves active instead of seating around in the train station begging for money.
In Australia, I am aware that there are many dole bludges to take advantage of the system and spend time surfing and dole on beers. Is this the type of system you are trying to sell to Singaporeans?
What is Singapore doing to protect these people? Pensions? Nope. Welfare? Nope. Housing? Hardly. And very poor conditions.
What is the Government doing to help these poor elderly people? Whatever they are doing, its not helping. It didn't reach that old popo because she passed away the last time I visited.
I am sure it must have amused you that till today, you havent heard of any poor Singaporeans who collapsed and die at the door steps of Singapore hospitals because they can afford to pay for the healthcare bills isnt it?
In Australia,
Welfare pays for your rent in many cases, and pays out dole and elderly pensions. They also get heavily subsidized privileges like in public transport and such.
If Australia healthcare system is so fantastic, can you explain why majority of the working class are buying their own health insurance and visiting private hospitals? Plus why isnt Australians living longer as compared to Singaporeans since ALL australians are so well taken care by their government?
Honestly, at least in Australia being elderly doesn't mean looking helpless and defeatedly into thin air because no one gives a shit about you and wishes you just die quick so they can lease the apartment out to other people.
How can elderly Singapore who are working to help himself/herself be seen as more helpless as compared to young australia who refuses to help themselve?
Australia can never duplicate the Singapore system because they are two different systems. Singapore is a system made to exploit the lower classes for the benefit of the upper classes.
I beg to differ on that, I would say that Singapore system encourage workers, while Australian system encourage slackers. And that explain why so many hard working and bright austalians end up leaving the country or "forced" not to work more to avoid paying more taxes.
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This was from a previous post where the mortgage rate was 8.29%, still the Australian citizens end up being better off compared to a Singaporean citizen. This comparison was done some time back, so some figures might have changed.
Any quantitative figures to back up your claim?
Singapore:
Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]
Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)
Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]
An average waiter in Australia will have a spending power of AU$26,865, while a Singaporeans waiter will have only SG$11,160. Why do you think when we go for holidays overseas, we can afford less than an equivalent GDP per capita country like Australia or New Zealand.
You do the maths and tell me who is actually better off after personal taxes and GST.
Singaporeans or Australians???
Though Australia might have a higher personal tax structure, but their average wages are 3 to 5 times of Singaporeans. Even after deducting high taxes and GST, they still do end up with more money in the pocket than an average Singaporean. Moreover, they have no need to pay for healthcare and basic education.
Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)
Woolworths Supermarket (Australia)
Sunrice Sunwhite Calrose Rice 5kg: AU$ 9.53
Australian Pork Roast Shoulder Boned & Rolled Min 1.5kg = AU$8.99
Cold Storage Supermarket (Singapore)
Calrose Australian Calrose Rice 5kg = SG$9.50 (Enter: Start Shopping, Grocery + Rice)
Rolled Pork Loin Rind On 1kg = SG$26.90 (Enter: Start Shopping, Meat + Pork)
Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his PUBLIC Housing (99 year leasehold) 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 2.60% (fixed rate), he would need some 21.65 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay Property Tax + SG$110 (TV Licence)every year.
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=104489212&f=0&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&c=61344252&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1198873313
Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent PRIVATE Landed House in Perth for AU$250,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 18.53 years to pay off his landed townhouse. An Australian citizen ends up in a 2 storey landed property with less than the number of years repayment, as compared to a Singaporean citizen buying a 2 bedroom HDB flat (99 year leasehold). -
When you compare it's important that you use Singapore salaries to compare Singapore lifestyle and Australian salaries to compare Australian lifestyle.
It's foolish to use Singapore salaries to compare with Australian lifestyle, because you will never be able to afford it. How many times have we noticed our poor spending power when we travel in Japan, Europe or the USA. Necessities seems to have been priced above our reach, food so expensive, taxi so expensive; but hell they are all making a hell lot more than Singaporeans.
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sell a hdb flat here can buy a bunglow in australia
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
When you compare it's important that you use Singapore salaries to compare Singapore lifestyle and Australian salaries to compare Australian lifestyle.
It's foolish to use Singapore salaries to compare with Australian lifestyle, because you will never be able to afford it. How many times have we noticed our poor spending power when we travel in Japan, Europe or the USA. Necessities seems to have been priced above our reach, food so expensive, taxi so expensive; but hell they are all making a hell lot more than Singaporeans.
Maurizio, since this topic is about Australia and Singapore, I would prefer that you limit your discussion on these 2 countries instead of talking about Japan Europe and USA, because Australia is not part of Europe or America.
You claimed that the Australians, despite of the higher cost of living, they are "making a hell lot more than Singaporeans", then can you explain to us why Australians saving rates are at record lows, while debt/income ratio is at record high?
From a personal financial planning point of view, dont you think it is more important to talk about ones ability to save instead of how much they make?
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I dunno... But i feel that this article was published with an agenda... very subtle....
Many cities in the world have
high costs of living, but in Singapore
we have world-class infrastructure
and facilities at relatively
reasonable prices. It is no
wonder that many foreigners
want to settle in Singapore.If this is the case, why the author not coming back.
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Originally posted by whiskers:
I dunno... But i feel that this article was published with an agenda... very subtle....
Many cities in the world have
high costs of living, but in Singapore
we have world-class infrastructure
and facilities at relatively
reasonable prices. It is no
wonder that many foreigners
want to settle in Singapore.If this is the case, why the author not coming back.
agreedif the statement is true,
Many cities in the world have
high costs of living, but in Singapore
we have world-class infrastructure
and facilities at relatively
reasonable prices. It is no
wonder that many foreigners
want to settle in Singapore.why is the authur even considering settling in Sydney?
Name one group of foreigners who want to settle in Singapore
while its true that indons, banglas and PRCs flock to Singapore to work, they have no intentions of settling here
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Thanks for valuable info of Oz welfare.
How about 9.25 % high interest rate which will eat
into the higher salary and welfare .compared with SG.
How about the seldom talked about hidden social costs
(i am sure your frens and relatives already there dunt talk
about it,especially bikers gangs)
----seriuos drugs problems
----gangster,eg bikers gang
----corruptions,(this is related to the above evils,......)
Tell me how the Bali 9 gang can smuggle drugs through Brisbane
airport to Bali regularly.The plots was blown when
the bribery money for Indonesia officails ,
disappeared from the bag containing drugs.
http://www.expressadvocate.com.au/article/2008/07/18/6351_news.html
50 live rifles shot welcome the new owner!!never appear in SG news.
2.
Former (police)assistant commissioner charged
July 29, 2008,
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/4834436/assistant-commissioner-charged
3.I can bet the roots of corruptions are deeper and wider
in the recent years...
The corruptions culture are very hard to change,leading to
drugs and gangsters .
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/dad-paid-off-askin-and-lent-packer-money/2008/07/27/1217097059696.html
The son of a king--gang lord who even could bribe NSW Premier
and a police commissioner!!
THE disgraced former Liberal (NSW)premier Bob Askin was not only on the payroll of the late crime boss Abe Saffron, but was the recipient of payments via horse races that were fixed as "a courtesy to premier Askin".
Askin and a police commissioner were among those who received thousands of dollars a week from Saffron, the crime figure's son has confirmed in a book on his father, to be released soon.
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Originally posted by Melbournite:
what he is presenting is just one side of the story, but the high amount u pay for comes back to u in the form of pension when u are old, AusStudy for your children and unemployment benefits. AUD 400 K for a house is subjective as the property market over there rises and drops ...But u will own the home for life and he doesnt have to pay his whole life too. His children may be paying the remainder after him. So what is he complaining about?
I am still in favour of the Aussie system. its a system that takes from u initially but gives u when u are in need yourself. But why did he have to choose Sydney?... There are other places around which are dirt cheap like Adelaide ect...
He is new to Aus. Intially such gripes are normal and common, but as time goes by he wll realise that he will like it there...As always he can earn a high income there and buy a home in singapore too...stick to rental while he is in Aus.
And what work is he doing is not stated too...If he can move to Aus, means i presume he is a highly skilled person.
I am survivng in Melbourne on $700 per month, and i am earning lots per month.. I still have a hige disposable income myself. as always there will be people like him who do comparisons to singapore on the minor details and lose out seeing the big picture. In Aus, everything from education to working always see things with regard to the big picture, unlike in Singapore.
Things that he can find in AUS not found in Singapore:
Austudy for children
subsidised Medical care
subsidised Tertiary study
Old age payments - Very Important
Landed home for 400K - Good value compared to Singapore's 1.2 million landed properties
Cheap car - very important and perfectly better than in singapore
better work opportunities - Very important
Just continue to stay in ur paradise...Australia....and stop bragging about the fallicies of how good Australia is here.
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someone mentioned Australia in debt. i am not sure about this but even if it is true Yeah so what, so is the US in debt..But at least their main priority of a goverment;s duty to its citizens is not ignored, even if they are in debt....But one things for sure:
Those governments know this world is farked and they dont play kow tow to the world. Instead they are keeping their citizens well. their problem with national debt is not due to their fault, it is the fault of the rest of the world likethe flawed US dollar system, energy crisis, food crisis ect. U cant really solve them . The best thing u can do is instead of playing accomodating to the world economy, be accomodating to the citizens instead as the very fabric of the nation are them.
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someone mentioned the centrelink payments (social security) , u can easily pay off your home payments with it as u get at least $500 for AusStudy for 2 weeks. I think its also adjusted for inflation as well.
One o fmy neighbours, a young guy studying in a AUS Uni gets $1000 for a month and he pays $440 for rent and he still has $560 left. He pays a $1000 per semester for fees for the Uni course. Upoun graduation if he cant find a job, he approaches the govt for help for job placement Compare this with singapore tertiary students who still depend on parents or loan to fianance their studies and still need to pay $5000 + every semester, and no guarantee of a job after graduation. Further more, they cant get into Uni easily in the first place. So many factors working against them already.
And that aus guy has the option for working for cash in jobs as well which means he takes centrelink payments and earns an income himself without official records.
Btw Australia has been giving pur social security for over two decades already. Did that make them bankrupt?
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Originally posted by ChiBet:
agreedif the statement is true,
Many cities in the world have
high costs of living, but in Singapore
we have world-class infrastructure
and facilities at relatively
reasonable prices. It is no
wonder that many foreigners
want to settle in Singapore.why is the authur even considering settling in Sydney?
Name one group of foreigners who want to settle in Singapore
while its true that indons, banglas and PRCs flock to Singapore to work, they have no intentions of settling here
You wil be surprised how many of these people are aiming for Australia and other countries where there is a shortage of manual labour and they get at $18-$22 per hour for the work.
Its a sad truth but they are using easy to enter singapore to gain work expereince before getting that golden 5 years that Aus needs