Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out
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Originally posted by O o O:
You call it a propaganda but yet you have failed to touch on the most expensive part of living, which is related to housing.
Australians household saving rate, like UK and USA, are currently at record low while debt/income ratio are at record high. What this means is that most household are heavily in debt due to mortgage.
Hence when you combine that with a 9.25% pa mortgage rate, you will see that whatever extra an Australian earn as compared to Singaporeans, actually goes back to the banks to pay off interest.
Debt-to-income
Saving ratio
Household gearing (ratio of debt-to-assets) by income
u think singaporeans not in debt meh? everyone here in singapore take out bank loans (no more HDB loans alr), when they purchase their house.
in other words, singapore is not any better off in the mortage crisis. and when i last read on the news, there are 5 rm flats in town area going for over $500k. is that cheap? paying so much for a non-permanent property. furthermore, even that 99 yr leasehold is not really observed. a few yrs back, some HDB flats at redhill are reclaim back by the government, to be develop into private condo.
therefore, in consideration of aus wages vs sing wages, life in aus may be cheaper
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
u think singaporeans not in debt meh? everyone here in singapore take out bank loans (no more HDB loans alr), when they purchase their house.
in other words, singapore is not any better off in the mortage crisis. and when i last read on the news, there are 5 rm flats in town area going for over $500k. is that cheap? paying so much for a non-permanent property. furthermore, even that 99 yr leasehold is not really observed. a few yrs back, some HDB flats at redhill are reclaim back by the government, to be develop into private condo.
therefore, in consideration of aus wages vs sing wages, life in aus may be cheaper
I believe the debt to income ratio and interest rate is a more important factors to look at instead of the absolute property value when we want to assess the impact of mortgage crisis on home owners.
Relative to Australia, Singapore property price might look more expensive, however when you factor in other housing related cost like mortgage interest and cost of maintaince, the overall picture might look very different.
E.g. Assuming John Mosley bought a property in Australia for AUD300,000 and took up a 250,000 loan @ 9% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have already paid AUD474,000 of interest or AUD774,000 for his property.
Over in Singapore KK Wong bought a property in Singapore for S$500,000 and took up a S$450,000 loan @ 3% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have paid S$233,000 of interest or S$733,000 for his property.
From the few charts which I have posted, it should be quite accurate to say that the younger generation home owners in Australia are spreading themselves too thin and heavily in debt as compared to previous generation or even Singaporeans due to our CPF system. Hence in time of mortgage crisis, slowing economy and high interest rate, I think it shouldnt be wrong to say that most Australia home owners are in worst position to handle this crisis as compare to Singapore home owners.
As far as wages goes, when you consider their after taxed salary, there is really not much to shout about. Some might argue that tax will provide free health care etc. but it is a known fact that most working class are buying the own health insurance and seek medical treatment from private hospital.
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There are benefits to enjoy as well as prices u have to pay
in migration.The key is whether the overall pros and cons
are up to your needs.
There is no right or wrong.U are free to go.
u are the one to enjoy or suffer.
Dunt blame others.U are the decision maker.
Good luck.
Social
Dunt assume other countries like SG .Other country may not
be generally LOW crimes,LOW
gangsters ,LOW fire arms offences,LOW corruptions
and LOW drugs problems.
Sadly to say,the last 4 are interrelated.
If u have kids or going to have,u should think the risks.
For example,2 out of ten chance is at least one of your
immediate neighbours (assume u stay in landed house)
in Oz possesses fire arm.My advice is be friend to
your neighbour.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24113682-952,00.html
Violent youth gangs take control of streets
August 02, 2008
Economic
Many benefits and welfares is coupled with higher tax
and weaking currency.
The much higher mortgage rate in western country,
eg Oz is 9.5 %,is 7 % point higher than HDB rate.
Why mortgage rate is so high because the deposit
rate is high.
The reason of high deposit rate is the currency is
weak and potential not so favourable.
It need high deposit rate to attact pple buy its currency.
Politics
u may not be running for election there.
But U will stay there for long time.
How is the leadership in your new country?
How the foreign investors rate them?
Poor leadership will affect employment,currency value
house price,welfatre,tax rates,...etc and of course your pocket.
when a premier of NSW accepted bribes,i dunt know
the rank and file in police and other laws enforcements
agencies....
Has the culuture of corruptions so easy to be changed?
Saffron's son: Dad paid off Askin and lent Packer money
Kate McClymont
July 28, 2008<!-- if(detailsstrpagination) { document.write(detailsstrpagination); } //--> Page 1 of 2
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/dad-paid-off-askin-and-lent-packer-money/2008/07/27/1217097059696.html
The above social,economic and politics all are inter related.
without good leadership,u cant expect good economic.
With poor economic,u can expect more crimes...
And with systematic corruption,u can expect high no.
of drugs sales,gangsters and even gangsters becoming
politicians ,like MP.u talk to Taiwaneses and indians then u know.
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dun, there is no ministers here that will say;
-gst to help the poor.
- raise wage is to increate inflation.
well,. u know the rest. so what if the cost here is higher than sg? cambodia is cheaper but do we see people flocking there?
yea, most of us singaporeans always tend to be short sighted and shallow valued, only see everything as if money is the blood of their life. i too fall into such trap, need some time to get over it..
if money is important to you, then move to malaysia, thailand or indonesia.
there are hundreds of thousands singaporeans here in oz and they are living fine here. even the ministers have much vested interests here in oz too.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
In terms of transport by trains, they have monthly fare card which is significantly lower than daily fare charges.
SMRT wants to fleece more from the commuters, that's why they don't implement cost saving measures to help commuters.
The monthly fare for non citizens and PR for zone 2 ( is $70 and that relates to $2.25 per day, which u can use to take train and bus and trams - to and fro . Think about it a bus ride and swtich to a train - one in th emorning and return home in the evening costing just $2.25..Its not bad at all..and if u are a citizen or PR, its only around $40, i think
but for zone 1 is significantly higher. Besides most people have cars and they somehow will only buy tickets for only one zone.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
this place is too far from the city center...yes Narre Warren is a bit far , but those places closer to the city centre are going to cost u significantly higher..Besides, most people drive from their home to the railway station and take public transport anyway. Its much easier as it leads to the city centre directly.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
Why would someone migrates without doing research and preparations?
There is no such thing as research and preparation. No researh and preparation is going to prepare u till u have really lived there. The best is when one has stayed in a new country for at least 6 months to a year at the same time keeping his eyes and ears open to the environment to arrive at a conclusion.
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Originally posted by fishbuff1:
dun, there is no ministers here that will say;
-gst to help the poor.
- raise wage is to increate inflation.
well,. u know the rest. so what if the cost here is higher than sg? cambodia is cheaper but do we see people flocking there?
yea, most of us singaporeans always tend to be short sighted and shallow valued, only see everything as if money is the blood of their life. i too fall into such trap, need some time to get over it..
if money is important to you, then move to malaysia, thailand or indonesia.
there are hundreds of thousands singaporeans here in oz and they are living fine here. even the ministers have much vested interests here in oz too.
let me tell u why they are fine, they dontmind paying the higher housing prices because when they are old, they are taken care of and 2ndly the homes which they buy belongs to them forever, which they can pass on to their children
Unlike the guy who wrote this thread, they have seen the bigger picture
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Originally posted by O o O o:
I believe the debt to income ratio and interest rate is a more important factors to look at instead of the absolute property value when we want to assess the impact of mortgage crisis on home owners.
Relative to Australia, Singapore property price might look more expensive, however when you factor in other housing related cost like mortgage interest and cost of maintaince, the overall picture might look very different.
E.g. Assuming John Mosley bought a property in Australia for AUD300,000 and took up a 250,000 loan @ 9% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have already paid AUD474,000 of interest or AUD774,000 for his property.
Over in Singapore KK Wong bought a property in Singapore for S$500,000 and took up a S$450,000 loan @ 3% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have paid S$233,000 of interest or S$733,000 for his property.
From the few charts which I have posted, it should be quite accurate to say that the younger generation home owners in Australia are spreading themselves too thin and heavily in debt as compared to previous generation or even Singaporeans due to our CPF system. Hence in time of mortgage crisis, slowing economy and high interest rate, I think it shouldnt be wrong to say that most Australia home owners are in worst position to handle this crisis as compare to Singapore home owners.
As far as wages goes, when you consider their after taxed salary, there is really not much to shout about. Some might argue that tax will provide free health care etc. but it is a known fact that most working class are buying the own health insurance and seek medical treatment from private hospital.
again , short sighted people like u irritate me...that home in Aus belongs to u forever and after u it goes to your children who may be still paying for it...Besides when u are too old to pay, u get old age pension to pay for that too....
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u can calculate the costs and benefits (or pro and con)
of migration to other countries.
If u find any place is faultless,then your mind is faulty.
But any way pl share where is the heaven.
To be fair,i post a article saying Sydney in fact is not so pricey.
At the same time,u have to prepare
'' police say they're unable to fight gangs'',
and they are youth gangs only,not to mention adult gangs!!
1.not so pricey
Don’t compare S’pore
I REFER to the letter “S’pore
living costs to Sydney’s
not that pricey” (my paper, July
28).
I don’t think it is fair to
compare Singapore to Sydney.
First of all, Australia has a
minimum-wage policy. At Mc-
Donald’s restaurants there, for
example, one can, depending
on one’s age, earn up to $12 an
hour, compared to $5 or less
in Singapore. My point is that
the Australian standard of living
corresponds to the income
its people earn.
Singapore may seem less
pricey because, in general, people
here earn less, compared to
Australians.
Regarding the comparisons
of food prices, I must point out
that food portions there are so
huge that a serving can easily
be shared by two people who
are not used to the generous
helpings.
Similarly, a loaf of bread
there may be more expensive,
but it is “supersized”.
Furthermore, rice is not a
staple of the Australian diet, so
it is pricier there. Likewise, pasta
is more expensive in Singapore
as it is not a staple here.
On the other hand, dairy
products in Australia are so
much cheaper, with chocolates
and ice cream costing at least
30 per cent less.
The letter-writer said that
many foreigners want to settle
in Singapore. Likewise, it is also
a known fact that there are
many Singaporeans who want
to settle in Australia, although
not necessarily in Sydney, because
of its high rentals.
Mr Alvin Aw/myepaper.mypaper.sg
04 aug 2008
2.I can buy a house in good loaction to let my family stay away from gangs
well.It is up to u.Do u think gangs just happen in bad locations?
10 % of oz possess gun.
''Underresourced police say they're unable to fight gangs''
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24121663-952,00.html
''IN the hood ... Goodna gang member Crip K.''
August 04, 2008 12:00am
POLICE say they are losing the fight against youth violence but the Government refuses to acknowledge the existence of organised teen gangs.
The Courier-Mail has documented up to a dozen named gangs on the Gold Coast alone. They are tightly knit groups identified by colours and tattoos, with some linked to criminal adult gangs.Youth gangs rule the streets
Other parts of Brisbane have their own versions of American gangs the Bloods and the Crips, or have gangs named after their suburbs or ethnic groups.
How do we make the streets safe? Tell us
Two police officers admitted to The Courier-Mail the "grubs have control of the streets" because of understaffing
"Most police divisions struggle to put two cars on the road each shift and those crews can have up to 30 jobs backed up on their call sign when they start duty," one two-decade veteran said.
Another officer said he was "trapped in the station doing paperwork".
"I would love to be on the road for any entire shift to catch crooks," he said.
Online readers of The Courier-Mail claimed Police Minister Judy Spence, who has said there is no evidence of organised youth gangs, was out of touch.
"What planet is she on?" wrote one reader.
"Her only answer to every issue is to pretend it's not happening," another reader said.
More incidents of youth and gang violence were revealed by residents, including attacks on vehicles by dozens of youths in Clontarf and Deception Bay.
Opposition police spokesman Vaughan Johnson said the Government had no real plan for dealing with youth violence and was in denial about gangs.
"We need more police presence where young people are active," he said.
"These youth gangs should be home in bed. Police have got to have the power to get them home where they belong."
He also doubted claims there were no statistics on youth gang violence.
"They have the statistics but they don't want them released because they are embarrassing," he said. -
Originally posted by deathmaster:
u think singaporeans not in debt meh? everyone here in singapore take out bank loans (no more HDB loans alr), when they purchase their house.
in other words, singapore is not any better off in the mortage crisis. and when i last read on the news, there are 5 rm flats in town area going for over $500k. is that cheap? paying so much for a non-permanent property. furthermore, even that 99 yr leasehold is not really observed. a few yrs back, some HDB flats at redhill are reclaim back by the government, to be develop into private condo.
therefore, in consideration of aus wages vs sing wages, life in aus may be cheaper
The bad thing about HDB flat is u get HDB loan or bank loan, u need to adhere to their policy such as renting out of room to foreign tenant, check whether they illegealimmigrants.
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Originally posted by will4:
The bad thing about HDB flat is u get HDB loan or bank loan, u need to adhere to their policy such as renting out of room to foreign tenant, check whether they illegealimmigrants.
do u mean if u own private property then u dunt check their status?
If so,i think u better save money to hire lawyer for harbouring
II.
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August 02, 2008 12:00am
DRIVE-by beatings and random 'swarming' attacks by teens armed with knives and poles are leaving a bloody trail across southeast Queensland.
.......................
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24113682-952,00.html
Violent youth gangs take control of streets
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
do u mean if u own private property then u dunt check their status?
If so,i think u better save money to hire lawyer for harbouring
II.
I meant if u got caught for renting out to illegal immigrants in HDB, ur HDB might be forfeited by the govt but as for private property, is the same rule apply? -
Don't compare S'pore living costs to Sydney's
I REFER to the letter "S'pore not that pricey" (my paper, July 28).I don't think it is fair to compare Singapore to Sydney.
First of all, Australia has a minimum-wage policy. At McDonald's restaurants there, for example, one can, depending on one's age, earn up to $12 an hour, compared to $5 or less in Singapore. My point is that the Australian standard of living corresponds to the income its people earn.
Singapore may seem less pricey because, in general, people here earn less, compared to Australians.
Regarding the comparisons of food prices, I must point out that food portions there are so huge that a serving can easily be shared by two people who are not used to the generous helpings.
Similarly, a loaf of bread there may be more expensive, but it is "supersized".
Furthermore, rice is not a staple of the Australian diet, so it is pricier there. Likewise, pasta is more expensive in Singapore as it is not a staple here.
On the other hand, dairy products in Australia are so much cheaper, with chocolates and ice cream costing at least 30 per cent less.
The letter-writer said that many foreigners want to settle in Singapore. Likewise, it is also a known fact that there are many Singaporeans who want to settle in Australia, although not necessarily in Sydney, because of its high rentals.
Mr Alvin Aw
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Originally posted by HyperFocal:
Don't compare S'pore living costs to Sydney's
I REFER to the letter "S'pore not that pricey" (my paper, July 28).I don't think it is fair to compare Singapore to Sydney.
First of all, Australia has a minimum-wage policy. At McDonald's restaurants there, for example, one can, depending on one's age, earn up to $12 an hour, compared to $5 or less in Singapore. My point is that the Australian standard of living corresponds to the income its people earn.
Singapore may seem less pricey because, in general, people here earn less, compared to Australians.
Regarding the comparisons of food prices, I must point out that food portions there are so huge that a serving can easily be shared by two people who are not used to the generous helpings.
Similarly, a loaf of bread there may be more expensive, but it is "supersized".
Furthermore, rice is not a staple of the Australian diet, so it is pricier there. Likewise, pasta is more expensive in Singapore as it is not a staple here.
On the other hand, dairy products in Australia are so much cheaper, with chocolates and ice cream costing at least 30 per cent less.
The letter-writer said that many foreigners want to settle in Singapore. Likewise, it is also a known fact that there are many Singaporeans who want to settle in Australia, although not necessarily in Sydney, because of its high rentals.
Mr Alvin Aw
As per my observation.
Not forgetting that Australia's GST (VAT) is discriminatory, they exempt certain basic necessities like food, medication and textbooks.
Whereas Singapore adopts a non-discriminatory stance, tax everything and anything. So that they can help the poor.
The lame reasoning being, it's difficult to implement a discriminatory GST. Other countries like the UK and Australia have been doing it eons ago, they don't find it difficult, but Singapore finds it difficult. We must lag some administrative efficiency.
Another lame reasoning, the rich also eats rice, by excluding it would mean the rich escape being tax. But the cost to the rich is pittance, whereas the cost to the poor is grave. e.g. Rich making $50,000 per month, a 5kg bag of rice $13.00 and a GST of $0.91. The GST of $0.91 only represents 0.001% of the rich folk's income. Whereas to a person making $1,500, this would represent 0.061% of a poor person's income or 61 times that of a rich man's income.
Another lame reasoning behind implementing GST for basic necessities like food, these basic food products are used by restaurants which rich folks go to. The GST payable by a restaurant is the difference between it's input tax (what he incurred during purchase) and output tax (what he charges to his customers).
Therefore, for a restaurant buying their raw ingredients at $100, incurs a GST of $7 (input tax). The restaurant sells their final food product at $1,000, the GST charged to customer is $70 (output tax). The net amount payable to IRAS would be $63 ($70 - $7). Not forgetting that the initial amount of GST $7 was charged by another supplier to this restaurant, so it is effectively in the pockets of the IRAS. The total GST tax pocketed by IRAS is $70.
If basic food commodities was exempted GST, therefore the raw ingredients purchased by the restaurant would be $100 (no GST, no input tax). The final product that the restaurant charges is $1,000, so the GST charged to customer is $70. Since there was no input tax, then no deductions of input tax was made and the final GST of $70 is paid to IRAS.
Whether IRAS charges GST for basic necessities or otherwise, the net effect to IRAS would still be the same, in both circumstances $70 of GST is collected by IRAS.
By not charging GST for basic foodstuff sold in supermarkets would mean, that the poor would be better off by not having to another 7%, thereby stretching the value of their dollar.
But their premise is, GST is to help the poor, to what effect is left to the thinking abilities of the audience.
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Originally posted by O o O o:
I believe the debt to income ratio and interest rate is a more important factors to look at instead of the absolute property value when we want to assess the impact of mortgage crisis on home owners.
Relative to Australia, Singapore property price might look more expensive, however when you factor in other housing related cost like mortgage interest and cost of maintaince, the overall picture might look very different.
E.g. Assuming John Mosley bought a property in Australia for AUD300,000 and took up a 250,000 loan @ 9% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have already paid AUD474,000 of interest or AUD774,000 for his property.
Over in Singapore KK Wong bought a property in Singapore for S$500,000 and took up a S$450,000 loan @ 3% over 30 years. By the end of 30 years, he would have paid S$233,000 of interest or S$733,000 for his property.
From the few charts which I have posted, it should be quite accurate to say that the younger generation home owners in Australia are spreading themselves too thin and heavily in debt as compared to previous generation or even Singaporeans due to our CPF system. Hence in time of mortgage crisis, slowing economy and high interest rate, I think it shouldnt be wrong to say that most Australia home owners are in worst position to handle this crisis as compare to Singapore home owners.
As far as wages goes, when you consider their after taxed salary, there is really not much to shout about. Some might argue that tax will provide free health care etc. but it is a known fact that most working class are buying the own health insurance and seek medical treatment from private hospital.
You forgot to mention that Australians earn 3-4 times more than Singaporeans.
What you are paying here is a very expensive HDB pigeon hole, whereas you would be paying for a piece of landed property in Australia.
Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his PUBLIC Housing (99 year leasehold) 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 2.60% (fixed rate), he would need some 21.65 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay Service & Conservancy monthly, and Property Tax + SG$110 (TV Licence) every year.
Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent PRIVATE Landed House in Perth for AU$250,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 18.53 years to pay off his landed townhouse. An Australian citizen ends up in a 2 storey landed property with less than the number of years repayment, as compared to a Singaporean citizen buying a 2 bedroom HDB flat (99 year leasehold).
Present Amount of Ordinary Annuity Calculator.
!!! Remember this fundamental issue, the salary of workers in Australia (without exchange rate differential) is 3 times that of Singaporean workers !!!
Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual) -
It is sad to see many people blindly being pro Singapore by critizing other countries.
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There are pros and cons in each countries land and properties issues, it cannot be compared, eg the facilities around you can also deem as a factor for the price you pay, my aunty living in australia has to travel very far just to buy grocery, another factor is the property prices, in australia due to it land mass, property do not fluatate as much as singapore, whereas you can make money just by buying and selling property in singapore.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)
No wonder they get conned by an Olympic Scam -
Originally posted by Super.pray:
Hi do you do excrotrisms?
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Originally posted by Super.pray:
you can do exoritrisms or not?
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why the hell are u guys fighting over who is better? nobody ask u to stay in 1 country forever. explore the damn world. be globalised. I am living in australia, but i also can come back to singapore anytime i want. make the best of both world u silly whiners
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This Australia hater never stop getting negative at Australia. VEry noisy indeed.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
You forgot to mention that Australians earn 3-4 times more than Singaporeans.
What you are paying here is a very expensive HDB pigeon hole, whereas you would be paying for a piece of landed property in Australia.
Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his PUBLIC Housing (99 year leasehold) 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 2.60% (fixed rate), he would need some 21.65 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay Service & Conservancy monthly, and Property Tax + SG$110 (TV Licence) every year.
Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent PRIVATE Landed House in Perth for AU$250,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 18.53 years to pay off his landed townhouse. An Australian citizen ends up in a 2 storey landed property with less than the number of years repayment, as compared to a Singaporean citizen buying a 2 bedroom HDB flat (99 year leasehold).
Present Amount of Ordinary Annuity Calculator.
!!! Remember this fundamental issue, the salary of workers in Australia (without exchange rate differential) is 3 times that of Singaporean workers !!!You can claim the average singaporeans is living below poverty level if you want because there is absolutely nothing to gain from reading what you post in this forum.
If you ask me to rate your credibility from the scale of 0 to 10, i will give your a minus 10.
