| Is Singapore no longer a civilised place? | ||
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I READ with alarm the report on Monday, 'Laguna Park vandals strike again'. Furthermore, I have been told about residents in other collective sales being pressured into signing in favour of an en bloc sale. The idea of proponents resorting to gangster-like tactics like pouring acid on the cars of dissenters comes as a shock to me. Is Singapore no longer a civilised place? I live in a housing estate where two previous en-bloc attempts failed. Neighbours who found out I was not in favour of a collective sale started ignoring me. Some eyed me with dagger-like looks as they walked past. Friends who came to visit me were refused entry, ostensibly because the carpark was full, they were told. I appeal to the authorities to take a close look at the effect of collective sales on community spirit and neighbourliness. I propose that rules be put in place to render such sales invalid if there are proven cases of coercion, threats and bullying of minority groups. Heng Chee Tong |
'Further proof that en-bloc sales bring out the worst in Singaporeans.'
MRS DEV NAIR: 'I refer to Monday's report, 'Laguna Park vandals strike again'. Here is further proof, if any more is needed, that en bloc property sales bring out the worst in Singaporeans. All the effort the government puts into creating a more gracious society is negated by this one piece of legislation allowing such sales. In our own estate we have seen jeering at meetings, microphones being snatched away from speakers, faeces being thrown at people's doors and the like. It is surprising that despite such ugliness and the several acrimonious court cases, the authorities do not seem to be taking action to ameliorate the situation. Even the new amendments to the Land Titles (Strata) Act have not succeeded in preventing the boorish behaviour of people bent on making money from the unhappiness of others. Isn't it high time the authorities re-looked the legislation allowing collective sales in the light of the higher goal of developing a gracious society?'
'The same is happening at other estates.'
MR TAN KENG ANN: 'I assure the Laguna Park victims of en bloc vandalism that they are not alone. The same is happening at other estates and where I live at Green Lodge. My apartment was plastered with a poster 'Trouble maker' and a neighbour had the marque of his Mercedes Benz car ripped off. We reported the incidents to the police and the managing agent. My neighbour and I had questioned the maintenance of the estate and the collective sale issue. It is time for the Ministry of Law to act. The social cost of such sales is too heavy if it carries on this way. I didn't buy a condominium only to be pushed out by my neighbours under duress.'
'It is imperative that the Ministry of Law act, and the sooner the better.'
MS MEENAKSHI DO NIN: 'I fear that similar threats and acts of vandalism could happen in the estate where I live too. Like Laguna Park, an interested group set in motion the preliminaries for a collective sale. I read that the Ministry of Law is planning a review of the revised legislation, which took effect on Oct 4 last year. The acts of vandalism and aggression at Laguna Park suggest that it is indeed time to do so. It is imperative that the Ministry of Law act, and the sooner the better.'
good one dinosaur
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:En bloc sales cause collective trouble
THE residential property boom in Singapore has been characterised by a peculiarly Singaporean phenomenon known as en bloc or collective sales.
Last year, 109 such deals were done, totalling $S13.3 billion ($10.5 billion).
...............
i find MOD is very generous to Spore Ty who posts few en blok
posts totally irrelevant to this thread and forgiven.
But i am targeted and have to jump a higher barrier
of standard!!
You are targeted not because you are put to a higher standard in here, but because you have proven yourself to be of a forumer of LOW standards.
Your posts and threads are monolouges, you pay no heed to good english, basic reasoning, as well as common sense. Practically speaking your only way of operating in here is to keep on spamming with as many posts as possible while not answering the real questions and glaring loopholes pointed out in your paper-thin case and trying to drown out all meaningful discussion with the sheer volume of copy-and-paste articles from the media.
Unfortunately for you I am currently taking a course in journalism and I can tell you for sure this is not the way the media is supposed to be used. In fact for such the media mogul you claim to be you have a very horrible grasp of any of the basic tenets of the creeds of journalism and instead resort to yellow journalism in here and calling those things "facts"
So why are you targeted? That is because you are a bane to the quality of this forum while I am just a bane to your threads.
Redirecting your threads to something that improves the quality of this forums, namely to stop going in circles over your silly media articles on Australia that nobody is really interested in and the en-bloc and property woes in Singapore, which everybody in here is interested in, is improving the quality of this forum.
Hence of course you are targeted, in fact one might say that redirecting your threads to something more relevant and useful, as well as improving the quality of this forum is something to be ENCOURAGED.
I think you will realize that nobody will bother to help you if your threads are posted with stuff you consider to be irrelevant. This is because your threads and posts are irrelevant to virtually everyone in here to begin with and making them relevant is something everybody wants to see.
So what can I say lionnoisy? Except you must suck thumb.
David vs Goliath: Airview Towers Sale Dismissed by High Court
One man versus an estate worth $202 million, including top lawyers Harry Elias Partnership, well known enbloc agent DTZ Debenham Tie Leung, and Bukit Sembawang Estates. And Mr Ken Lee, representing himself, won against Goliath and got the sale kicked out. You can read the articles here.
What happened? Where did it go wrong? The case hinges on a clause in the CSA and the deadline of 12 mths to get the 80% majority consent. The CSA clause regulates the rights of a signatory (someone who signs the CSA) to sell their unit, after they have signed the CSA. In the case of Airview, according to the news report, 2 owners had signed the CSA and then decided to sell their units. The buyers however, only signed the CSA after the 12 mth deadline, even though they had "agreed all along to the sale". The SC and their lawyers argued that their late signing should not penalise the entire sale, because "their failure to sign was due to 'mistake or inadvertence' and so was a technicality". Justice Lee Seiu Kin however ruled that the 12 mth deadline must be adhered to, and if any one misses the deadline, they cannot be counted towards the 80%.
Why would anyone sell their flat, some might ask? Why get out of such a windfall?
For various reasons - urgent need to sell (eg emigration, business despatching family overseas), or owners wishing to capitalise on the enbloc fever. Say a person bought their flat for $1m, and it's now going enbloc and he stands to gain $1.8m. He puts it on the market for $1.4m; any buyer stands to gain $0.4m and that owner transfers the risk of enbloc sale collapsing to the buyer; owner gets a guaranteed 'windfall' of $0.4m while buyer accepts possibility of getting $0.4m.
What clause is this in the CSA, that forces this buyer to join the enbloc majority?
This one, which you should find in most CSAs (with some variation):-
Each of the Selling Owners (people who signed the CSA) hereby represents, warrants and covenants as follows:-
... not to do any of the following from the date of signing this agreement by each of the Selling Owner in respect of his strata unit:
(a) grant an option to purchase
(b) sell
(c) agree or contract to sell
(d) assign or transfer by whatever means;
unless third party/parties having such benefit thereof shall also join in as a party to this Agreement by signing the same forthwith or any Supplemental agreement if required by the SC; provided that the particular Selling Owner shall indemnify the other Selling Owners from any claims, losses, damages and/or otherwise arising therefrom.
A variation I've seen includes a condition, that this sale must be subject to the approval of the SC (yes, they rule your life). What this clause means is that if you signed the CSA, you can only sell your unit to someone who MUST agree to sign the CSA AND any other documents required by the SC. It also means that the seller is responsible for any claims or damages if anything botches up. But is this fair? Why should you as a seller, if you have legit reasons to sell, be held responsible if the managing agent and/or lawyers do not follow up on the sale and chase the new owners to sign the CSA? Why should you also be penalised for signing the CSA, by having such a clause that effectively limits the potential number of buyers (or worse, they must be approved by the SC)? Shouldn't the onus be on the marketing agent and SC to convince the new buyers to sign the CSA, rather than it be your job?
It remains to be seen what's the aftermath of the Airview Towers dismissal - will the 2 unit sellers get into trouble? Will Bukit Sembawang sue the majority owners, like in Horizon Towers? Will the 2 unit buyers get into trouble for not signing the CSA in time? Will Bukit Sembawang let the sale slide, as the news report suggests?
What cannot be denied though - that it is rather sneaky of the managing agent and/or lawyer for the SC to brush off the late signing of the CSA by the 2 unit sellers, as a mere 'technicality'. They really should have known better.
Moral of story - Be careful of what you sign. If the 2 unit owners never signed the CSA, they would not have gotten into any trouble that they might be in now.
How can this happen in Singapore?
| CONDO RESIDENTS WHO OPPOSE EN BLOC RECOUNT 'PINUSHMENT' |
| TORTURED BY BLOC HEAD BULLIES |
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| ONE resident's Mercedes Benz badge was ripped off and stolen. Another had a poster plastered on his front door, with the words 'Trouble Maker' on it. |
| 04 August 2008 |
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ONE resident's Mercedes Benz badge was ripped off and stolen. Another had a poster plastered on his front door, with the words 'Trouble Maker' on it. Yet another resident's telephone stopped working. And when he went outside to check, he discovered that someone had cut his phone line. Say hello to a new form of neighbourly harassment that has reared its ugly head in several condominiums around Singapore, following the en-bloc fever that began last year. Upset by some of their neighbours' refusal to endorse en-bloc deals, which could result in instant windfalls for some owners, these condo bullies resort to cowardly acts of vandalism to torment their neighbours. As one aggrieved resident put it: 'This is really uncivilised behaviour.' Last week, it was reported that at least six cars had been vandalised at Laguna Park since en-bloc discussions began. They all belonged to residents opposed to an en-bloc sale. In the wake of the Laguna Park incidents, Singaporeans living in other private estates are coming forward with similar horror stories. At least two other condominiums have supposedly been hit by such bullies. Some of its residents told The New Paper on Sunday of bullying acts - some uncivil, others plain criminal. One such resident is Mr Tan Keng Ann, who owns an apartment at Green Lodge estate, a condominium along Toh Tuck Road. Some of the 80 apartment owners there have been pushing for an en-bloc agreement for years. But Mr Tan was among those who resisted. 'I don't even read some of the proposals that were put out, because I have no intention of selling,' the 60-year-old cosmetics distributor said. He bought his apartment in 1984 and lived there for a decade before moving elsewhere. He has been renting out the apartment. Mr Tan claimed that from late 2006, residents opposed to the en-bloc sale had become targets of a variety of pranks and bullying tactics. In December that year, someone pasted a poster on his door with the words 'Trouble Maker', he said. At that time, no one was living in the apartment, as the previous tenant had just moved out. 'If I had a tenant, you can imagine how it might have affected my relationship with him,' he said. In the same month, Mr Tan's neighbour, who also opposed the sale, woke up one morning to find the badge of his Mercedes Benz missing. The two made police reports together. Mr Tan said the police came and took fingerprint samples from his neighbour's car. The New Paper on Sunday could not reach his neighbour, who is on an overseas trip. Mr Tan said: 'I feel very angry. If you have any problem, as a neighbour, you should come and talk to me, instead of resorting to such acts.' Green Lodge's en-bloc attempts have so far gained the approval of about 70 per cent of owners, falling short of the 80 per cent required under law. Mr Heng Chee Tong, 32, a civil engineer, who lives at Lakeview Estate along Upper Thomson Road, said someone twisted off the radio antenna of his Toyota Altis last August after he declined an en-bloc deal. He spent $50 to fix it and made a police report. Four neighbours who rejected the en-bloc sale told him their cars were scratched. Another said his telephone line outside the apartment was deliberately cut, Mr Heng told The New Paper on Sunday. 'Why are (these culprits) trying to harass other people into selling their apartments? 'There shouldn't be any coercion into making a decision. We should be more civil about the whole exercise. But now, there is a spirit of animosity in our estate.' Mr Heng said that pro-en-bloc neighbours who used to talk to him when they met in the lift have since turned cold or hostile. Two en-bloc attempts so far - in January and August last year - by Lakeview Estate's residents have failed. Both had about 60 per cent support. A nature lover, Mr Heng intends to stay put in his apartment. 'The location is so good. It is central, and it is close to MacRitchie Reservoir.' Property agents contacted by The New Paper on Sunday said that tension from en-bloc discussions is nothing new. Mr Andrew Lin, an agent, said: 'There will definitely be hostility, because some want to sell and some refuse to.' Another agent Francis Ngiam said en-bloc meetings by residents have been known to be heated, with some residents even making banners to express their strong views. However, both said that resorting to illegal acts, such as car vandalism, is still relatively rare here. Psychologist Kit Ng, director of The Centre for Psychology, said these condo bullies are not like common vandals 'who go around carparks painting cars'. He said these vandals are 'seeking to create fear in others by sending a message that 'something will happen to you if you don't comply'. Dr Elizabeth Nair, who heads Work & Health Psychologists, said that anger can turn even professionals and well-educated people into bullies. And when they are upset over a perceived attempt to ruin their chances of getting a windfall from a property sale, the anger could just cause them to lose their heads. Elgin Toh, newsroom intern |
OTHER CONDO BULLIES
LAGUNA PARK
Six cars belonging to residents were vandalised in the past two weeks. Two were damaged with corrosive liquid. Another had black paint splashed on it. Some cars were also scratched.
All the victims were opposed to the en-bloc sale.
BAYSHORE PARK
Residents were sharply divided after an en-bloc agreement was proposed this year.
One meeting in May to elect a committee to take charge of en-bloc sale matters was disrupted by shouts and jeers.
An anti-en-bloc resident who asked 'too many questions' was silenced by pro-en-bloc heckling, prompting the chairman of the management committee to threaten to end the meeting.
FARRER COURT
Before an en-bloc meeting last December, anonymous letters were circulated to convince residents opposed to the sale that their blocks had bad fengshui, and would bring bad luck to residents.
A 73-year-old resident on the en-bloc committee also had the windscreen and bonnet of his car damaged.
NEPTUNE COURT
En-bloc meetings last year were not pretty to watch. One resident said those in favour of the sale would 'shout and boo at dissenters, usually the older residents'.
'You come home from the meetings very stressed. We have lost all sense of value and respect for the elderly,' she lamented.
tis en bloc issue is a matter on crime rate of singapore
it is not about housing
However take note without concrete information on who is the doer, there is little the police can do. Maybe someone should suggest wat should the police do to prevent such cases from happening
Tis is particularly true since most of the cases r private housing who should employ their own security guards
again.
I dunt know it is tip of iceberg or a isolated case.
Share price of A OZ property listed company drops from A$4 in
earlier this year to 0.27 yesterday!!
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CIY.AX&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24185038-25658,00.html
U can say one swallow does not make a Spring.
Up to you.This is your money.
Actually, the most important aspect of being a PR in another country, be it Oz or Sg, is that you are happy staying there.
No one country is ever really safe from crimes and financial disasters
Who knows, our "prosperious" country may one day face a crisis.
I feel sad for lionnoisy that he has to criticise another country to let Singapore look good.
What kind a man does that?
It's like your neighbours telling the other neighbours how bad you are, extremely deplorable behaviour.
I don't know what kind of metal illness you have that made you the way you are.
What's next? Are we going to see an Australian kangaroonoisy criticising Singapore's authoritarian regime?
There is much more to live than just economics, having lots of food but being encaged like a prisoner wouldn't be much better than a free man without food.
Some prefer being caged animals while others prefer freedom.
To those Australians reading this forum, the views of "lionnoisy" is his and only his alone, I don't think any other forumers agree with his view.
lionnoisy is like a Nazi in sgForums.
lionnoisy,
The kind of views you put forth here shows the kind of upbringing you have in Singapore.
Are you a graduate? Are you even an 'A' Level graduate for that matter?
You are entitled to your extreme form of anti-Australian views, I am not like P4P, persecute views different from mine.
World's best public housing?
Sorry not now
Singapore's public housing - arguably the world's best - looks expensive, maybe a little tattered. By Seah Chiang Nee
In 42 years, the Housing Development Board (HDB) has built homes for 85 per cent of the population and helped to turn a squatter colony into a First World.
Its renowned work is not just bricks and mortars; it has changed and molded lifestyles of millions. What else can it do?
Some two decades ago, as Editor of the Monitor, I instituted several "think tank" groups to discuss public issues in Singapore to improve the newspaper's coverage.
One was public housing. Someone raised the eventual prospect of HDB housing reaching saturation point and an over-supply that could cause a price collapse in the secondary market.
Have we reached this point? No.
These are still pioneering days for Singapore. Its history is just beginning. In 30 years, its population could read six or seven million.
That would call for a doubling of homes over the next quarter century with HDB provided the majority of them. It is still needed to erect (reasonably) cheap housing and refurbish old estates.
But the building pace in future will not match the hectic past (one unit every 45 minutes at its peak)
So why are Singaporeans turning their backs on one of the world's most renowned public housing schemes?
Several reasons. Firstly, a declining birthrate and with almost nine-tenths of the people properly housed The public need for HDB apartments has declined substantially through the past decade.
Secondly, the public taste has changed.
The younger generation does not just want a subsidised flat like their needy parents. It wants one in a choice area comparable to some of the high standards of a private condo.
And thirdly, the sad state of the economy, which is depressing property prices. Since 1996, they have fallen by more than 30 per cent. The weakness is not over, not for a while.
In contrast, the prices of HDB flats, which are largely decided upon by the government, have decreased much less.
As a result the gap between public and private properties has been declining to a state when buyers are beginning to find HDB products unattractive.
It has made up for it by erecting better-designed blocks to meet upgraded expectations, cutting down on bothersome regulations. But pricing disadvantage remains a tough obstacle.
Some people have called for the closure of HDB, but it will not happen because its task of providing "affordable" housing to Singaporeans is never-ending.
The government is now revamping the whole scheme, long admired by foreign governments east and west for giving this city the highest home ownership in the world.
The revamp may bring in a bigger role for private developers. Ten years ago, the long-term plan was to have 70 percent people owning public housing, 30 percent private (current ratio 85:15).
"Private developers can gauge market changes better than the government," said one official.
The famous long queue of applicants for HDB flats has all but disappeared. During its peak, an applicant could wait several years before getting a unit.
Young Singaporeans have developed a love of living in the city centre and refurbished estates with bright lights, exciting shopping and train stations.
This demand is driving many first-time buyers to leave the queue to buy resale units in a choice locality.
As a young reporter, I had watched how HDB living had molded people's lives that got representatives from all over the world to come and study it.
As society developed, the HDB had to cater for different needs of different people, the middle class and the poor. It also had to keep up with advancing design, technology and higher costs.
Today, singles prefer studio flats, as do retired couples whose children have moved out. All have special needs. Many don't like to live in new estates in the suburbs.
Some of these unwanted and empty blocks stand like ghostly giants at night. If the HDB were a private company, it would have to reduce prices.
Despite perky designs and steady deregulation, HDB flats are still disliked for being too uniformed, restrictive and lacking sophisticated facilities that yuppies like.
"No one wants to live in a numbered block - like prison cells," exclaimed an undergraduate.
For S$100,000 to S$150,000 more, professionals would rather buy a private condo with a sophisticated address, a swimming pool and security guards.
Not surprising, the total number of applicants in line has dropped to 11,000 as at February.
At the peak, the figure was 146,000.
If they are not picky, every one of them can have a flat today.
There are 17,500 unsold flats in new towns with a value of S$4.4bil. In addition, HDB is offering 1,900 resale units in popular mature estates.
This is having an indirect impact on the private property market.
Many buyers are "upgraders" who need to sell their HDB apartments in the secondary market before they can go private with top-up financing. This in turn is putting pressure on private condos.
The HDB role is not at its sunset but its future role may be slightly different.
It will probably respond to market pressures for a review which will allow the private sector to play a bigger role in public housing because it is better placed to react to market changes.
The government has announced that a comprehensive examination is under way. It will take one or two years.
Two objectives will be retained: encouraging property ownership and providing good "affordable" housing for the population.
So why not simply lower HDB prices to clear stock?
Poor option. The government, which owns 70 per cent of Singapore's land, is the state's biggest property owner and developer.
If it brings down HDB prices, it will impact the whole property market and wipe out the value of the biggest assets among Singaporeans.
HDB property is responsible for making Singapore a relatively wealthy middle-class society. HDB prices form a psychological price tier of Singapore's housing pyramid.
Any price cut would spill over to the private sector and eventually have an impact on the assets of its citizens.
The depressed conditions have caused a sharp cutback in supply. The government last year built only 8,000 units, compared to 21,000 in 2000 and 37,744 in 1995.
The cloud hanging over the property market is not likely to clear for another two or three years until the backlog clears.
That will see a gradual return of strong run-up of demand and prices. Then - and only then - will the supplier of public housing becomes all-important to the eyes of property buyers.
Seah Chiang Nee
I think the above report is a bit different from wat I observe. People r still trying to find HDB flats rather than private housing because the price is much lesser. The recent Build to order flats r pretty attractive