SAF personnel come to school give talk to JC boys..
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Originally posted by Melbournite:
i can tell u one thing, The PRC will better apprciate their China government after they have spent some tine here. A PRC told me, that. after she came to singapore, PRC gorverment seems so much better to her.
and seriously foreigners will cry if they go to NS. We singaporeans are defintely more stronger minded than them.
Maybe only the young PRCs, the children of the one-child policy so brought up like little princes and princesses. The older generation was not so fortunate. -
Originally posted by ivebeenhad:
this is just sad news. Anyway, do PRC male students have to enlist?
i think 1st generation is normally given an option as to they want to serve NS...
but most would choose not to....
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Originally posted by Bigcable22:
The SAF personnel came to my school to give talk to the Pre-university boys which are gonna enlist into NS soon.The talk is about how BMT training is like.. march 32km.. "Dig your own grave",Night time pasar malam etc etc...while during the talk,the PRC students fell asleep...........
Just feeling dam sad lah...Just got some questions...
1.) We Singapore boys gotta go through that list to items in NS training to while the PRC students come here and get subsidized education via OUR OWN SINGAPOREAN S TAXPAYER money,snatching our universities places while we go for NS.
2.After graduate,they go into job market again snatching our rice bowl....
3.) although 20% of university places are reserved for foreigners.. that means that the 80% will be left to Singaporeans?? i got a PRC classmate came here as a foreigner and keep on renewing her permit until now she is a citizen... She can apply for university as a SINGAPORE CITIZEN.. then with a population of 500,000 PRCs in Singapore, how many of the 80% university seats are actually meant for the locals....
4.) SAF ppl mentioned about manpower shortage and mention about possibility of enlisting female into NS... how can we bear to let our dear ones enlist into NS..
While we singaporeans are enlisting to NS to defend the island of singapore so the PRCs can continue reaping off our hardwork for the nation,and in time of crisis they can just packed their bags leave for better developed countries with their degrees earned via our taxpayers money?
i really respect those very few true talents like some asean scholarship holder ive seen. But too many of the PRCs migrated into singapore are just ....
HuH!?
As a fellow citizen, i understand your concerns. However, there are bigger issues involved than you may realize with regards to PRs on our shores.
1. Multicultural status
Being a multicultural nation, we welcome not only people from India, we extend our reach to China, Vietnam and the rest of asia as well. Being exposed to a wide variety of nationals will open our young eyes to a wider world out there - their politics, their economies, and their way of life.
It would serve a comparison and widen your perceptions which will only stand you in good position when your graduate and look for jobs. A headstart that those who are left behind in their country will never have, and will behave as a frogs in a well in their outlook, wherelse, you, the singaporean, will be more cosmopolitan, a benefit that you should not overlook.
2. Guanxi
China is a huge market. Their shopkeepers in cities alone earn more money per year than our our local market entrepreneurs can ever hope to earn in a lifetime. WIth these young, probably scions of business houses, probably intelligent as well, would make good guanxi ( connections ) for you when you graduate. You will never know how your life's journey will turn out, but it is always made more easier when you have friends. How more than to have international friends in our global village?
Our State(we voters) is not as stupid as some would want you to believe. Every path is fully calculated so that espacially you, our young and our future, will have the fullest opportunities we can sacrifice for you to benefit. Do grab such opportunities the previous generations never had and remember to make friends with them.
3. Competition
Competition, although is tough, is very good, for it esposes where one's weakness lies. It is only upon realizing your weakness, admiting to it, will you improve. You may not win against your opponent, but you will be much better than you can dream yourself to be. As it is said, aim for the moon, and if you miss, you will still land amongst the stars.
4. Military Service
Frankly speaking, we trust our own citizens more than PRs, and would be glad they don't serve. They will ultimately still serve our country, but on the global economic front.
IT will be good if they want to serve by converting to citizens, adding more manpower to our army, but it would have to be your effort to convince them our nation ( our people and national policies ) is worth defending, as you have the greatest contact and convincing power as a friend with them.
5. Jobs
As for jobs, we sporeans MUST never fear them. To fear them would be to admit that they are better than us even on our own turf, which is not true. We sporeans are just as intelligent, if not more, with a more cosmopolitan outlook than a frog in the well communist or snobbish ( as a facade to cover inferiority complex ) disastrous political climate nationals from India.
We have what it takes to benefit our global employers. What we lack in the market place, it will be implemented into our education policies for the next cohorts of young citizens to prepare them to obtain better jobs.
Our State ( we the taxpayers) had done all we could to help you get a better life, but there is only so much we can do. The rest is up to you, the freedom to choose - to be happy being friends with PRs or be bitter making them your enemies and end up miserable.
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if the prc kids are pr, they might kena do ns.
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Originally posted by Acidshuriken:
if the prc kids are pr, they might kena do ns.
yah...the 2nd generation will need to...
but i think tis unfair if the 1st generation is given that option loh...they shd serve...esp those who have gotten their degrees here in singapore...
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
As a fellow citizen, i understand your concerns. However, there are bigger issues involved than you may realize with regards to PRs on our shores.
1. Multicultural status
Being a multicultural nation, we welcome not only people from India, we extend our reach to China, Vietnam and the rest of asia as well. Being exposed to a wide variety of nationals will open our young eyes to a wider world out there - their politics, their economies, and their way of life.
It would serve a comparison and widen your perceptions which will only stand you in good position when your graduate and look for jobs. A headstart that those who are left behind in their country will never have, and will behave as a frogs in a well in their outlook, wherelse, you, the singaporean, will be more cosmopolitan, a benefit that you should not overlook.
2. Guanxi
China is a huge market. Their shopkeepers in cities alone earn more money per year than our our local market entrepreneurs can ever hope to earn in a lifetime. WIth these young, probably scions of business houses, probably intelligent as well, would make good guanxi ( connections ) for you when you graduate. You will never know how your life's journey will turn out, but it is always made more easier when you have friends. How more than to have international friends in our global village?
Our State(we voters) is not as stupid as some would want you to believe. Every path is fully calculated so that espacially you, our young and our future, will have the fullest opportunities we can sacrifice for you to benefit. Do grab such opportunities the previous generations never had and remember to make friends with them.
3. Competition
Competition, although is tough, is very good, for it esposes where one's weakness lies. It is only upon realizing your weakness, admiting to it, will you improve. You may not win against your opponent, but you will be much better than you can dream yourself to be. As it is said, aim for the moon, and if you miss, you will still land amongst the stars.
4. Military Service
Frankly speaking, we trust our own citizens more than PRs, and would be glad they don't serve. They will ultimately still serve our country, but on the global economic front.
IT will be good if they want to serve by converting to citizens, adding more manpower to our army, but it would have to be your effort to convince them our nation ( our people and national policies ) is worth defending, as you have the greatest contact and convincing power as a friend with them.
5. Jobs
As for jobs, we sporeans MUST never fear them. To fear them would be to admit that they are better than us even on our own turf, which is not true. We sporeans are just as intelligent, if not more, with a more cosmopolitan outlook than a frog in the well communist or snobbish ( as a facade to cover inferiority complex ) disastrous political climate nationals from India.
We have what it takes to benefit our global employers. What we lack in the market place, it will be implemented into our education policies for the next cohorts of young citizens to prepare them to obtain better jobs.
Our State ( we the taxpayers) had done all we could to help you get a better life, but there is only so much we can do. The rest is up to you, the freedom to choose - to be happy being friends with PRs or be bitter making them your enemies and end up miserable.
You are being too optimistic with all your suggested benefits without first considering the likelyhood and to what extent it will be beneficial to keep allowing PRCs to exploit our system. And not to mention the cost that we have to put up with them. we dont have a choice here, only 2 out of 84 mps in our parliament speak for us.
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Originally posted by Junyang700:
If foreign talent need to do NS, they most probably won't come here to study.
Same like Singaporeans migrating to Australia and US. Think about this?
Just like males need to do NS and females do not need to?
Anyway, the world is unfair. No choice.
Yes, contrary to what most people think, YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE!Exercise the right choice at General Elections 2010!
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most PRC working in singapore are not from the developed province or city such as guangdong, zhejiang, shanghai.
most are from hunan, hubei,henan,hebei,sichuan,liaoning etc province.
the good and better will not be attracted to singapore. what we can attract are mainly from the inner province.
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Originally posted by shade343:
Yes, contrary to what most people think, YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE!Exercise the right choice at General Elections 2010!
well, for me there's only one trigger at the next elections ....
if they are going to play around with my CPF money with that screwed up annuity thingy, I'll vote for the opposition regardless of who the chap(s? it's hard to know, with gerrymandering, I don't know if I'll be in a GRC, or a single constituency next round) ... be it a nutter like Chee soon Juan, a perv like Steve chia, or a plain messed up guy like tan lead shake .... or even a smart chimpanzee .....
I'm really hoping for a smart chimp though ...
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wah..
so now brainwashing starts from school?
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Originally posted by ivebeenhad:
You are being too optimistic with all your suggested benefits without first considering the likelyhood and to what extent it will be beneficial to keep allowing PRCs to exploit our system. And not to mention the cost that we have to put up with them. we dont have a choice here, only 2 out of 84 mps in our parliament speak for us.
I understand your concerns as well, faced by those who are working adults, whom feel the issue of PRs more strongly, espacially those who seek to exploit our generosity. I too, like you, have no love for these types who are here to make money, have no loyalty to anyone and would flee where the money is.
Perhaps, if we list out what are the exploits, then our MPs would have a better picture on how we had been made use of by those PRs whom are exploitive and a shame to other more forthright PRs?
I do know of some exploits:-
1. HDB Housing.
PRs are allowed to buy our low cost homes, meant for citizens. But as we generous singaporeans believe that not all of them are rich and can afford private housing, or rent which may be expensive, we open hearted allow them to do so.
However, a few of these mercenary types who had the money, bought our low cost 4 room flats, and sublet 2 other rooms to other FWs or sporeans, earning $1000 from rentals, which not only pays for their HDB loans, they will still have another few hundred to pocket, at our citizens' expense!
But still, this is not a critical exploit yet, as not many PRs are doing it.
2. Military and Police force
Personally, i don't want them there. There are not there. So i don't know how they can exploit there.
3. Education
These PRs get tuition grant, generously between 65% to 80% of total cost to study in tertiary schools, in return of 'donation' of $1000 per year back to our treasury.
These monies are our taxes, meant to help fellow citizens. Why should we be funding foriegners?
The only reason i would agree to the funding is because we need to expose our young to the world to have a better perspective, on a long term basis and not short international exchanges where nothing much can be gain except a short holiday for our youths.
There may be other good reasons, i don't know, and i am sure there are many other bad reasons, whom some may think it is exploitive and of no benefit and value for money.
4. Jobs
Hot pototoes! PRs have the skills or connection that we sporeans don't have or able to accept the low salaries. But think of the larger picture - if companies cannot find the talent or the people to do the job here, they will go elsewhere. At least if they set up offices and factories here, able to hire FT, FW, and PRs, there will still be some jobs avaliable for singaporeans.
If not, not jobs at all for us. The young and highly educated can go overseas, but what about the others here? I am a simple poor man and can live on just a few hundred dollars a month, but can you and others?
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Personally, I fully agree with xtreyier's opinions. To track back to the initial post by TS, my views are:1. With the current birth rate in Singapore, made worse by the fast growing economic stress, the only way to get human resources is to "import" talents, or workers, into Singapore. However there are always bound to be some bad apples among the lot, who exploit the system for personal gains. BUT again, what is the differences between us and these foreigners if we CHANGE the system to OUR personal gains? To me, we Singaporeans are not a lousy lot too; if these foreigners were to compete with our livelihood, let's take them head-on with a compassionate heart. We want to make a living, and so do them. So may the best man wins.2. Do we really want to put the defences of Singapore into the hands of some foreigners. Singapore is still a small vulnerable country and our global standing today are also partly attributable to our military defences in the region. Imagine if any Tom, Dick from any country can serve NS in Singapore, what happens 2 years later when they return to their country? Please don't forget the lessons learnt from WW2.3. NS does not necessary mean a waste of time for the guys. To me, NS taught me more things than my years of schoolings, practical experiences. Countries without NS tends not to be as well off, citizens not so disciplined, less harmony etc.To me, I believe we shuld learn from all sources, even the foreigners, and if these foreigners threaten your presence, thrash them up and put them back to their positions. But bearing in mind that if they are better, you might be the one being trashed, but as a man, we'll have to take it in, train harder and challenge them again.
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Do we really want to put the defences of Singapore into the hands of some foreigners?
We can put them in less important positions like Civil Defence,nursing or other non critical units.
NS does not necessary mean a waste of time for the guys.
Thats why we want to give the foreigners a chance to share such good things. We dont want to deprive them of such benefits do we?
With the current birth rate in Singapore, made worse by the fast growing economic stress, the only way to get human resources is to "import" talents, or workers, into Singapore
We need foreigners, but do we need 200,000 a year to replace the birth rates? Singapore produce only 40,000 babies a year. PAP is just using population to grow the economy. If we are merely replacing the shortage of babies the figure would be much smaller.
If you are unhappy with the PAP social contract, well we can always plan a path out. The Govt is pragmatic, so should we. Dont have a grude against money, stay in Singapore if the benefits are more, leave if oppourtunities are better overseas. We are only emulating the foreigners here, nothing wrong with it.
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Boo f*cking hoo. What to do, your government doesn't love you. You can complain about it till the cows come home and in the end status quo isn't going to change.
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Ermm, i don't think we are just replacing birth rates... we are getting enough manpower to deal with the rapid economy growth ba.. If we are just replacing the birth rates, should not be enough for the growht then. But I really do not know if our land and facilities are able to cope with this growth though.
Yes we can put them into non-critical units, but linking to my above point, who will serve NS just to come study/work in Singapore? If they don't come, our economy should be affected, in one way or another.
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Originally posted by kilua:
If you are unhappy with the PAP social contract, well we can always plan a path out. The Govt is pragmatic, so should we. Dont have a grude against money, stay in Singapore if the benefits are more, leave if oppourtunities are better overseas. We are only emulating the foreigners here, nothing wrong with it.
Yay finally someone who makes sense. -
If we hire armies to protect us,we could strengthen relations with that country eg.Bush.Not to say we totally have no army of our own.We could have a backup army.
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Originally posted by ClaT:
If we hire armies to protect us,we could strengthen relations with that country eg.Bush.Not to say we totally have no army of our own.We could have a backup army.
Scary thought you have there. In the event of 'civil disobedience' or 'confusing times', citizen army or police personnel will think twice before pulling the trigger.
With a foreign army, they will not give a damn who they are firing on, so long as they get paid.
Even in peace time, our civil and police personnel act with compassion towards us citizens and even foreigners. Imagine if the police were staff with foreigners, do you think they have such compulsion?
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You people realise thats what the Gurkhas are there for? To do a job because they have no vested interests in this country?
Also If ClaT is talking about hiring an army, you realise nobody is going to let u hire their national army right? Closest we've come are the Gurkhas. If you're hiring anyone it'd be PMCs and that'd probably mean people like Blackwater.
Then again xtreyier I think u're a bit naive when you say our local police personnel act with compassion towards their own citizen. Just because they aren't going to murder you in cold blood for greenbucks doesn't mean they're compassionate. It just means they haven't got what it takes, hardly makes them Mother Theresa.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well, for me there's only one trigger at the next elections ....
if they are going to play around with my CPF money with that screwed up annuity thingy, I'll vote for the opposition regardless of who the chap(s? it's hard to know, with gerrymandering, I don't know if I'll be in a GRC, or a single constituency next round) ... be it a nutter like Chee soon Juan, a perv like Steve chia, or a plain messed up guy like tan lead shake .... or even a smart chimpanzee .....
I'm really hoping for a smart chimp though ...
How about more ERP and GST? The introduction of the CPF Annuity is already a confirmed thing....actually if you think about it, Singaporeans cant be trusted to take all their CPF money in one go-it will lead to reckless spending. Annuity is a good thing for everybody! =D
On top of that, when CPF retains the money under the annuity scheme, they could use it to generate a higher yield and pay of other Nominee's interest!
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Originally posted by GHoST_18:
wah..
so now brainwashing starts from school?
look at how many PAP foundation Kindergardens there are! lol.... -
HAH.
I feel sad for the PRC people rather.
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Hahaha. Singapore might have a good military (but personally, I don't think so), but lets just say, don't be too arrogant. Why? 3 words: Yom Kippur War.
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thanks xtreyier for considering the downside too. Anyway what bugs me or most of us most is (if you refer to the first post) that the PRC can afford to sleep while the singaporean get to listen to SAF personel and ponder their shit life for the next 2 years which kicks off with a boat ride to pulau tekong. yes they cannot be trusted in the military but i dont think keeping them on our lands is going to do us any real good. short and sweet, they shouldnt be in our army, they shouldnt be in our system to exploit as well.
I have no love for people especially prc students because the way they behave they got no respect for singaporeans and they come into our lands thinking that they have every right to do so. I dont think they have any remorse whatsoever, they might even laugh at the fact that you have to serve national slavery whilst they dont have to.
And to validify the claim that having large amounts of foreigners (especially prc) being a benefit to the local people by helping htem adapt to cosmopolitant situations, we ought to really do a hypothesis test to firstly prove any significant advantage observable from people exposed to huge amounts of PRC students during their course of study versus people exposed to small amounts of them. otherwise, this claim is as good as any other reason the government manufactures to pacify us, for instance why increase gst, why new erp gantry built at unreasonable places and why CPF increase age for getting money back.