SAF personnel come to school give talk to JC boys..
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Originally posted by foxtrout8:
Should i add on with what we have experienced in Iraq, timor leste?Alot of what the SAF arent available in the media as our government alway practise a subtle approach in their foreign relations. For that reason, there are people who think that we are wusses that perhap faint at first sight of blood.
Agreed.And it is disrespectful to say this kind of things when there are people who lost their lives in service of the country.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
The RSN has only 4500 regulars, there's 30+ ships. Draw volunteers for the LSTs and you'll see the effects of taking away even a "small" proportion.Don't fall into the fallacy of looking at mere figures.
Discussion here is about whether the amount of people who performed at Aceh is an accurate overall representation of our military verve, not the impact of removing the volunteers from their normal routine service. Please learn to read, unless you think that a small % of personal's performance is indicative of a large number of people.sBy that logic, I might as well say because the Sg Commandos are hardcore, by extrapolation, MOST Singaporeans are hardcore as well.
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
Well nevermind the neighbours. We're talking about how we'll fare when WE face what Israel faced during the YK War. Lets stop comparing ourselves to lower standards and feeling smug about ourselves because complacency almost lost the Israelis the YK War
4justice, i am not comparing ourselve to lower standards in context but comparing ourselves to the reality that we are facing. We must ask ourselves what is our threat in this geopolitical region and my answer is that they are this country and that country and they are of lower standards compare to us.Picking up any battle or a war in history trying to apply it to singapore is of little practical sense. We must be realisitic to our environment, our threat and then think about our approach. Perhaps we can learn something from YK, but do not quote it out of context and then ask us to compare ourselves to the israelis.
Can our neighbours perform a YK war style invasion, i dont think so.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
Agreed.And it is disrespectful to say this kind of things when there are people who lost their lives in service of the country.
I wouldn't worry about this kind of "disrespectful" when your own govt has no qualms about sending 4 innocent regulars to jail so that 2 good for nothing sons of white horses can get away with dunking and killing someone during PoW training because "they were bored and wanted to tag along"
Who gives the victim the respect he deserves then?
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Originally posted by foxtrout8:
4justice, i am not comparing ourselve to lower standards in context but comparing ourselves to the reality that we are facing. We must ask ourselves what is our threat in this geopolitical region and my answer is that they are this country and that country and they are of lower standards compare to us.Picking up any battle or a war in history trying to apply it to singapore is of little practical sense. We must be realisitic to our environment, our threat and then think about our approach.
Can our neighbours perform a YK war style invasion, i dont think so.
A simple reply shall suffice. Never underestimate your enemies, and complacency is the 1st step before downfall.
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
Discussion here is about whether the amount of people who performed at Aceh is an accurate overall representation of our military verve
I think it is an accurate overall representation of our force because the people that was highlighted by you that holds indifferent attitudes were present in that deployment. Large amount of NSF from the army were deployed together with key navy personnels from each ships whom aint volunteers. The result was a phenomenon -
Can our neighbours perform a YK war style invasion, i dont think so.
I think a simple blockade of resources should do the trick.
Cut off water etc.
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
A simple reply shall suffice. Never underestimate your enemies, and complacency is the 1st step before downfall.
Well we should never underestimate our enemies, we shall also not underestimate ourselves. -
Originally posted by 4Justice:
I wouldn't worry about this kind of "disrespectful" when your own govt has no qualms about sending 4 innocent regulars to jail so that 2 good for nothing sons of white horses can get away with dunking and killing someone during PoW training because "they were bored and wanted to tag along"
Who gives the victim the respect he deserves then?
So if the govt is insensitive you would follow by being insensitive yourself? -
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I think a simple blockade of resources should do the trick.
Cut off water etc.
we are self reliant in our water resources when needed. trying to block any resources from us that threatens our national survival will prompt a deadly response from the SAF. -
Originally posted by 4Justice:
Discussion here is about whether the amount of people who performed at Aceh is an accurate overall representation of our military verve, not the impact of removing the volunteers from their normal routine service. Please learn to read, unless you think that a small % of personal's performance is indicative of a large number of people.sBy that logic, I might as well say because the Sg Commandos are hardcore, by extrapolation, MOST Singaporeans are hardcore as well.
You asked me how big is a "big proportion" and I answered that it is "big" enough to be considered significant.Again....look beyond figures.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I think a simple blockade of resources should do the trick.
Cut off water etc.
I think we've done enough drills on this.
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
Well nevermind the neighbours. We're talking about how we'll fare when WE face what Israel faced during the YK War. Lets stop comparing ourselves to lower standards and feeling smug about ourselves because complacency almost lost the Israelis the YK WarI can understand where you are comming from. Being a woman, and having no first hand experience on military service, espacially on the battlefronts, it is common for you to think our military is inferior.
More so if you hear coffee shop talk. Most guys will gripe and whine out of uniform, but when you start telling them NS is useless, or demean our military in anyway, they will defend it heartily.
While Spore has not face battles, thankfully, there is no reason to believe they are incapable, or just to pass time. It is a sad notion to adopt on our men who accepted military rule instead of civilian rule freedom type of employment. Be glad we still have these regulars to train the next generations and be the backbone of our army.
But if it is battles that you seek, then look no further back than the rescue of hostages in Changi Airport 1991, flight SQ119.
'Get down, we're Singaporeans! We're here to rescue you!' the lead commando shouted. Hundred over citizens and foriegners were rescued, the terrorists, all of them shot dead, within 30seconds on storming the aircraft.
While it could be argued that the terrorist had no guns, but the aircraft highly flammable fuel on the wings. They had knives, lighters and liqour and was prepared to blow the plane skyhigh, killing all.
Did that stop our young men from rushing in and did a proffessional job, a performance and result no other country could match? They probably made their will and said their last prayers before the operation. These men are singaporeans. They were us. And i can assure you, our army had grown more capable and lethal from that episode, bouyed by confidence and tested regularly on excercises. Try our men in a war, and be prepared to pay the River Styx's ferrymen price.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
So if the govt is insensitive you would follow by being insensitive yourself?
Certainly while we are addressing serious survival issues, sensitivity should be put aside. However sensitivity for the sake of making sure 2 mommy's boys get away with murder is in an entirely different league. -
Originally posted by foxtrout8:
Kill in aceh? No, they are not expected to kill but are expected to face danger. What makes u think that our soldiers cant kill when our enemies are shooting at us, killing our mates in war?
Lowly technician? I am demostrating the technological edge that we have. Ask any lowly technician to set up broadband communication in the middle of the sahara desert please. Be mindful that banda aceh was practically devastated in total.
Emasculated wusses? Yap i like to know how masculate our enemies are and as if they have a lot of killing experiences.
What makes you think they can kill in the face of enemy fire?
Look at how spoilt Singaporean guys are. The most they've seen of blood or gore is perhaps in CS or some other FPS games. Do they even have any idea how putrid corpses smell? Do they know how crippling pain from bullet wounds can be? Can they overcome years of conditioning that killing is bad?
Huh. it's not as if those signallers never brought their own equipment along. If they'd tried to salvage and restore the communications grid using nothing but destroyed and damaged local equipment, then perhaps they'd deserve more respect.
How much more macsuline are Singapore's neighbours compared to Singapore's guys? Oh i don't know, garang enough to rob and steal? Garang enough to fight NSmen and win? Garang enough to defy authority?
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Originally posted by foxtrout8:
Well we should never underestimate our enemies, we shall also not underestimate ourselves.
No harm comes from underestimating oneself, other than a bruised ego, while nothing but harm comes from underestimating the enemy.Is not having a bruised ego more important to SAF regulars than making sure we are able to survive? Seems like people have got their priorities screwed up indeed.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
You asked me how big is a "big proportion" and I answered that it is "big" enough to be considered significant.
Big enough to be significant to operational duties. Not big enough to be an accurate representation of the SAF as a whole. -
Originally posted by 4Justice:
Certainly while we are addressing serious survival issues, sensitivity should be put aside. However sensitivity for the sake of making sure 2 mommy's boys get away with murder is in an entirely different league.
You missed my point.I agree it is damn unfair too. But are you going to insensitive like the "scholars" too?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I can understand where you are comming from. Being a woman, and having no first hand experience on military service, espacially on the battlefronts, it is common for you to think our military is inferior.
I'm sorry but thats sexist bullshit. Like I said, don't assume that just because I am a woman I have no experience of life in SAF 1st hand, or that I know nothing about militaries. -
Originally posted by rooki:
What makes you think they can kill in the face of enemy fire?
Look at how spoilt Singaporean guys are. The most they've seen of blood or gore is perhaps in CS or some other FPS games. Do they even have any idea how putrid corpses smell? Do they know how crippling pain from bullet wounds can be? Can they overcome years of conditioning that killing is bad?
Huh. it's not as if those signallers never brought their own equipment along. If they'd tried to salvage and restore the communications grid using nothing but destroyed and damaged local equipment, then perhaps they'd deserve more respect.
How much more macsuline are Singapore's neighbours compared to Singapore's guys? Oh i don't know, garang enough to rob and steal? Garang enough to fight NSmen and win? Garang enough to defy authority?
for someone with no penis, and not even carrying a pink IC, you certainly seems to have intimate knowledge of Singaporean guys ....
did one of us give it to you good and dumped you and broke your heart ? ... certainly sounds like it ...
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
You missed my point.I agree it is damn unfair too. But are you going to insensitive like the "scholars" too?
No. However, I AM going to be insensitive if thats what ensuring our survival takes.
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Originally posted by rooki:
What makes you think they can kill in the face of enemy fire?
Look at how spoilt Singaporean guys are. The most they've seen of blood or gore is perhaps in CS or some other FPS games. Do they even have any idea how putrid corpses smell? Do they know how crippling pain from bullet wounds can be? Can they overcome years of conditioning that killing is bad?
Huh. it's not as if those signallers never brought their own equipment along. If they'd tried to salvage and restore the communications grid using nothing but destroyed and damaged local equipment, then perhaps they'd deserve more respect.
How much more macsuline are Singapore's neighbours compared to Singapore's guys? Oh i don't know, garang enough to rob and steal? Garang enough to fight NSmen and win? Garang enough to defy authority?
Garang enough to manage to keep the Courageous afloat after the horrible collision?
Do you think the ship could have made it back if the crew was not well-prepared for anything?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
for someone with no penis, and not even carrying a pink IC, you certainly seems to have intimate knowledge of Singaporean guys ....
did one of us give it to you good and dumped you and broke your heart ? ... certainly sounds like it ...
Fatum, I expect better than a sexist low blow from you. -
Originally posted by rooki:
What makes you think they can kill in the face of enemy fire?
Look at how spoilt Singaporean guys are. The most they've seen of blood or gore is perhaps in CS or some other FPS games. Do they even have any idea how putrid corpses smell? Do they know how crippling pain from bullet wounds can be? Can they overcome years of conditioning that killing is bad?
Huh. it's not as if those signallers never brought their own equipment along. If they'd tried to salvage and restore the communications grid using nothing but destroyed and damaged local equipment, then perhaps they'd deserve more respect.
How much more macsuline are Singapore's neighbours compared to Singapore's guys? Oh i don't know, garang enough to rob and steal? Garang enough to fight NSmen and win? Garang enough to defy authority?
a good laugh, your childishness displayed throughout your post and your inability to grasp the work of our signallers would probably spell to us that you havent went for your NS.well, spoiled singapores whom cannot pull the trigger, whom cannot see blood. Then perhaps police officers firing off their revolver (happened many times in our history) to defend themselves, SOF personnels in the SQ117 incident, medical stuff, paramedics in our everyday lives are not Singaporeans then.
How much of the US forces deployed to war zones had seen battle, had taste the bitterness of killing and saw the tragic of losing their mates? How much of our neighbours had pulled a trigger, had killed a man or had lost a mate?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I can understand where you are comming from. Being a woman, and having no first hand experience on military service, espacially on the battlefronts, it is common for you to think our military is inferior.
More so if you hear coffee shop talk. Most guys will gripe and whine out of uniform, but when you start telling them NS is useless, or demean our military in anyway, they will defend it heartily.
While Spore has not face battles, thankfully, there is no reason to believe they are incapable, or just to pass time. It is a sad notion to adopt on our men who accepted military rule instead of civilian rule freedom type of employment. Be glad we still have these regulars to train the next generations and be the backbone of our army.
But if it is battles that you seek, then look no further back than the rescue of hostages in Changi Airport 1991, flight SQ119.
'Get down, we're Singaporeans! We're here to rescue you!' the lead commando shouted. Hundred over citizens and foriegners were rescued, the terrorists, all of them shot dead, within 30seconds on storming the aircraft.
While it could be argued that the terrorist had no guns, but the aircraft highly flammable fuel on the wings. They had knives, lighters and liqour and was prepared to blow the plane skyhigh, killing all.
Did that stop our young men from rushing in and did a proffessional job, a performance and result no other country could match? They probably made their will and said their last prayers before the operation. These men are singaporeans. They were us. And i can assure you, our army had grown more capable and lethal from that episode, bouyed by confidence and tested regularly on excercises. Try our men in a war, and be prepared to pay the River Styx's ferrymen price.
Yeah, just because a few commandos were garang, you generalise that to mean all of the SAF, including the vast unmotivated pansy bunch of NSmen/NSFs.
Also, ego-boosting much? Writing such insipid rhetoric as Try our men in a war, and be prepared to pay the River Styx's ferrymen price. really does wonders in making you feel good about your pitiful existence, does it?