Originally posted by Arapahoe:Anybody in the US who is a US citizen can joint the US swimming Team. There is even a Web site....Usually they encourage parents who have children age of 9 or 10 yrs old to joint up, Wether they made it to be Team USA it is up to their individual motivation and hard work that put them in this competitive position. Swimmer only get sponsorship by private companies if they shown potential in international competition and win. Michael Phleps was already receiving about US$4 million in endorsement before olympics.
...but that does not hide the fact that the entire Table Tennis team are migrants from China.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:This is totally different from PRC when the kids are stream into various sport and attend sport school and all thru their training their living expenses are being paid for. Until their usefullness are USE UP or injured than their financial support ceased.
Exactly, "UNTIL THEIR USEFULNESS ARE USED UP"!
Originally posted by Arapahoe:Pls check how many PRC use their sport skill to migrate out from China if they really so passionate to their sport why quit. Result speak for itself. So stop pasting Gold to yourself.
... so when their usefulness are no longer there, where do they do? Use their sport skill to migrate out of China lah! They are NOT quitting the sport! They are taking their sport to a place that welcomes them..... nothing wrong with that.
... even in the corporate world among Singaporeans is the same isn't it. You company don't value you, you go to a company that wants your skill.... what's the problem with that?
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Right, Tan Howe Liang's talent was developed in Singapore and the British was running Singapore then. He did not come to Singapore simply to participate in the Olympics. The British did not use Singaporeans' hard earned money to buy him just for the Olympics.
In Bejing 2008, the despots lose $750K for a fake medal which could have gone towards training thousands, if not tens of thousand of Singaporean children. It does not matter if these children did not win any medal, there is no need to fake it.
As usual, foreigners are first class and silliporeans second class; silliporeans pay the high costs and taxes, and foreigners get the money.
Rewards are sponsored: http://www.snoc.org.sg/mmdap.php
Rewards are not designated solely to foreigners or Singaporeans. Who wins get the reward.
Money to train thousands? Typical SDP line - share the wealth! Most Singapore parents are not interested in sending their kids into the sports career path.
How much money did the British spent on Tan Howe Liang? You have the figures?
oh boy, the stiff upper lip, wonderfully fair country is also despotic....
http://www.sportsline.com/olympics/story/7511946
import American runner into the British team two weeks before the Athens Olympics, tsk tsk.....
ISN'T THERE A COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT IS NOT DESPOTIC??!!!
Wow all that from a liar so stupid that he provided evidence to expose his lie, that he kept repeating for months hahahaha...
As far as I know, there is only one country that FAKED a live Olympics opening.
Country run by despots, despots run countries, are constantly FAKING it and that is known as PROPAGANDA. They constantly FAKE it so as to justify their dishonorable retention of power instead of (REALLY, not by FAKERY) letting the people decide.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Wow all that from a liar so stupid that he provided evidence to expose his lie, that he kept repeating for months hahahaha...
As far as I know, there is only one country that FAKED a live Olympics opening.
Country run by despots, despots run countries, are constantly FAKING it and that is known as PROPAGANDA. They constantly FAKE it so as to justify their dishonorable retention of power instead of (REALLY, not by FAKERY) letting the people decide.
so despotic countries will do fake things, but fake things done by countries that may not be despotic.....????
so how then do you define despotic, if not the fakery....
if its not the fakery, what's the point of this thread?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:... so when their usefulness are no longer there, where do they do? Use their sport skill to migrate out of China lah! They are NOT quitting the sport! They are taking their sport to a place that welcomes them..... nothing wrong with that.
... even in the corporate world among Singaporeans is the same isn't it. You company don't value you, you go to a company that wants your skill.... what's the problem with that?
What is wrong with that?
it is a short term goal to win medals at all means
Well let me put it this way:
Now that Table tennis team won a sliver medal does it inspired young Singaporean to participate to follow suit or does it inspired SG govt to continue hire import to gain medals? what lesson are we learning here? Remember question to ask is are we learning the right answer from a single outcome.
but what is left with unsolved fundamental issue of how do we use this opportunity to Inspired young singaporean to go for excellent. To cutivate parent to encourage children to go for excellent. The motivation is internal rather than incentive.
You can always ask parents and kids
Does it convince young singaporean to be proud of being a Singaporean?
Who are we kidding here! I wrote to my Chinese friend who is working in Angola about the table tennis player the reply was All Chinese again Chinese.
So ultimately you have to ask yourself these questions now that economically sg is doing well and have the financial resources to spend to hire foreigner but what happen if you don;t Resources that are free from domestics cultivation vs spending money for a quick fix.
So I guess right now the next minister that take over sport will have to do better in the next olypmics so now they have to scout for more talent oversea? pay more.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:...but that does not hide the fact that the entire Table Tennis team are migrants from China.
Exactly, "UNTIL THEIR USEFULNESS ARE USED UP"!
... so when their usefulness are no longer there, where do they do? Use their sport skill to migrate out of China lah! They are NOT quitting the sport! They are taking their sport to a place that welcomes them..... nothing wrong with that.
... even in the corporate world among Singaporeans is the same isn't it. You company don't value you, you go to a company that wants your skill.... what's the problem with that?
You have to read about what happen to those injured athelics and unable to compete in China to understand what I am implying.
most countries athelics have other civilian working skills not Chinese, they have to learn living from scratch in their 20s.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
You have to read about what happen to those injured athelics and unable to compete in China to understand what I am implying.most countries athelics have other civilian working skills not Chinese, they have to learn living from scratch in their 20s.
actually I don't disagree with what you are saying.... over the last two post.
each country has it's own way to handle the issue, and whatever problem that has to be figured out, it has to be figured out by themselves.
some countries have lax immigration law, so every tom, dick and harry can go in, and end up having cab drivers who do not know the way,
others invite immigrants based on the immigrants qualifications, +++ other methods.
in the sports scene in Singapore, with or without these imports, unless one is very smart and very atheltic, one is not going to go far. So therein, the environment does truly supports the nurturing of sports people. Whether the environment is caused by the system or the family is quite debatable.
not sure if you are married or have children, but how many parents you know will actively encourage their offspring to pursue a sporting career, especially if these parents do not have the economic means to support such a goal?
Originally posted by Arapahoe:What is wrong with that?
it is a short term goal to win medals at all means
Well let me put it this way:
Now that Table tennis team won a sliver medal does it inspired young Singaporean to participate to follow suit or does it inspired SG govt to continue hire import to gain medals? what lesson are we learning here? Remember question to ask is are we learning the right answer from a single outcome.
but what is left with unsolved fundamental issue of how do we use this opportunity to Inspired young singaporean to go for excellent. To cutivate parent to encourage children to go for excellent. The motivation is internal rather than incentive.
You can always ask parents and kids
Does it convince young singaporean to be proud of being a Singaporean?
Who are we kidding here! I wrote to my Chinese friend who is working in Angola about the table tennis player the reply was All Chinese again Chinese.
So ultimately you have to ask yourself these questions now that economically sg is doing well and have the financial resources to spend to hire foreigner but what happen if you don;t Resources that are free from domestics cultivation vs spending money for a quick fix.
So I guess right now the next minister that take over sport will have to do better in the next olypmics so now they have to scout for more talent oversea? pay more.
The USA team had over 33 foreign born atheletes flying their flags in the beijing olympics. In the track and field events, would your Angola friend says it is ALL african against african? The more well known ones are Bernard Lagat, from Kenya, Lopez Lomong from Sudan and Leo Manzano from Mexica, they are all running for the USA in the 1500 meters event.
Your Angola friends can't tell the difference between a Singaporean Chinese and a HK Chinese, can you tell the difference between a black american and a Jamaican, or a caucasian from UK and Poland? can you tell where they were born?
What really important is that the country offers the opportunity, the sportmans offer their skill. Together they bring excellence to the sport. Whether you like it or not, the team beat South Korea and won silver medal. The honors go to them, and Singapore as a country. If you people feel proud only when locally born win the medal, then you will have to wait long long.
You are right, are we learning the right answer from a single outcome? do you know that a single outcome came a long way. Singapore's table tennis association is run by a team of people who are very dedicated table tennis players, their hunt for talents went back to the 80s and it took many previous players like Jin Jun Hong to bring up the interest and standard of the game. It took these players many games overseas to develop the mental strength to play against the best in the world. They did not walk into Singapore, then to Beijing and won the silver.
How much are the other sports associations doing to develop players? Just because you are born in China does not make you a world class table tennis player, or badminton players? do what are you good at, being born in Singapore?
Many Chinese parents know how tough it is for their children to compete academically so when their children are picked for sport for their potential, it is a risk for them to send their kids to do sport, for ultimately there is only 1 gold medalist in every event! You think Singaporean born would be brave enough to take such a move?
Finally, do we have the heart, a kind and gracious heart to embrace those who work and sacrifice for our country? bear in mind, in 48 years, only 1 table tennis team made, many came here but didn't make it....are we waiting for another campaign to educate the local born?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:The USA team had over 33 foreign born atheletes flying their flags in the beijing olympics. In the track and field events, would your Angola friend says it is ALL african against african? The more well known ones are Bernard Lagat, from Kenya, Lopez Lomong from Sudan and Leo Manzano from Mexica, they are all running for the USA in the 1500 meters event.
Your Angola friends can't tell the difference between a Singaporean Chinese and a HK Chinese, can you tell the difference between a black american and a Jamaican, or a caucasian from UK and Poland? can you tell where they were born?
What really important is that the country offers the opportunity, the sportmans offer their skill. Together they bring excellence to the sport. Whether you like it or not, the team beat South Korea and won silver medal. The honors go to them, and Singapore as a country. If you people feel proud only when locally born win the medal, then you will have to wait long long.
You are right, are we learning the right answer from a single outcome? do you know that a single outcome came a long way. Singapore's table tennis association is run by a team of people who are very dedicated table tennis players, their hunt for talents went back to the 80s and it took many previous players like Jin Jun Hong to bring up the interest and standard of the game. It took these players many games overseas to develop the mental strength to play against the best in the world. They did not walk into Singapore, then to Beijing and won the silver.
How much are the other sports associations doing to develop players? Just because you are born in China does not make you a world class table tennis player, or badminton players? do what are you good at, being born in Singapore?
Many Chinese parents know how tough it is for their children to compete academically so when their children are picked for sport for their potential, it is a risk for them to send their kids to do sport, for ultimately there is only 1 gold medalist in every event! You think Singaporean born would be brave enough to take such a move?
Finally, do we have the heart, a kind and gracious heart to embrace those who work and sacrifice for our country? bear in mind, in 48 years, only 1 table tennis team made, many came here but didn't make it....are we waiting for another campaign to educate the local born?
Michael Phelps and Shawn Johnson get the attention because they are born and bred in America, true blue citizens of their country.
For the stupid pro-foreign talent supporters here, you've been had.
“Hopefully in 2008… Since I’m from Beijing, and also a Mainland Chinese…I hope that… on my homeland, how do I put this… I hope that I’ll be able to win a medal on my own territory.“ - Li Jiawei in a CCTV interview.
“希望在2008， 我自己å�ˆæ˜¯ä¸€ä¸ªåŒ—京人，å�ˆæ˜¯ä¸å›½äººï¼Œæˆ‘希望能在自己的本土，怎么说呢，自己的地盘上能够å�–得一é�¢å¥–牌。”
Li also embarrassed Singapore by dragging the Singapore flag across the ground at the Olympics Opening.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Michael Phelps and Shawn Johnson get the attention because they are born and bred in America, true blue citizens of their country.
For the stupid pro-foreign talent supporters here, you've been had.
“Hopefully in 2008… Since I’m from Beijing, and also a Mainland Chinese…I hope that… on my homeland, how do I put this… I hope that I’ll be able to win a medal on my own territory.“ - Li Jiawei in a CCTV interview.
“希望在2008， 我自己å�ˆæ˜¯ä¸€ä¸ªåŒ—京人，å�ˆæ˜¯ä¸å›½äººï¼Œæˆ‘希望能在自己的本土，怎么说呢，自己的地盘上能够å�–得一é�¢å¥–牌。”
Li also embarrassed Singapore by dragging the Singapore flag across the ground at the Olympics Opening.
Michael Phelps got attention because he made history. Shawn Johnson got the attention because she won gold. where does it say that they got attention just because they are true blue citizens of their country. Don't insult the american, you could be sued for racist in america.
Grow up, and be gracious.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Michael Phelps got attention because he made history. Shawn Johnson got the attention because she won gold. where does it say that they got attention just because they are true blue citizens of their country. Don't insult the american, you could be sued for racist in america.
Grow up, and be gracious.
Of course they must win to get attention...er who doesn't understand huh?
Like a cantonese saying goes, must you draw the intestines when you sketch a human figure?
For those individuals that still can’t see the crux of the problem regarding slapping the pink IC onto the foreign peddler to play for SG, I can draw a parallel example to show you and you tell me how much pride and honor can you get out of this….
A few yrs back, country X paraded a 4X4 armored car during its army founding day, in front of a crowd consisting of govt officials, military officials and sultans. The defense agency claim proudly that this armored car was built using 100% indigenous technologies, design and tout it as a significant technological milestone for their country’s military industry. However, from Janes weekly, it was soon discovered that the armored car was nothing more than a local assembly version of the Belgian Sabiex AV-4 armored car. Everything, from the design, the opto-electronic systems on board are made by the Belgians. So the only thing that is so- “country x” was the fact that the defense agency of Country X slap their company logo and Country X’s flag onto it.
Yes, the defense agency can lie to the statesmen and citizens of country X, but deep down in their heart, they know this armored car was never their product of hard-work and achievement. Transfer this back to SG TT team. Yes we may to a certain extent say LJW is a Singaporean as she came here since 13, but how about Wang and Feng? They came only recently and were awarded SG citizenship in 2007, just in time for Olympics, isn’t it? So how different are we, in terms of pride, when we compare our TT team with the so called “achievement” of country X defense agency?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
actually I don't disagree with what you are saying.... over the last two post.each country has it's own way to handle the issue, and whatever problem that has to be figured out, it has to be figured out by themselves.
some countries have lax immigration law, so every tom, dick and harry can go in, and end up having cab drivers who do not know the way,
others invite immigrants based on the immigrants qualifications, +++ other methods.
in the sports scene in Singapore, with or without these imports, unless one is very smart and very atheltic, one is not going to go far. So therein, the environment does truly supports the nurturing of sports people. Whether the environment is caused by the system or the family is quite debatable.
not sure if you are married or have children, but how many parents you know will actively encourage their offspring to pursue a sporting career, especially if these parents do not have the economic means to support such a goal?
As said the motivation comes from within, but the states needs to cultivate national identity factors to provide direction and resources for training. Sport training start from Young.If parents does not have the economics means to support a capable young man than it is the states to move in and provide support to grow the sport
If after 40 yrs we find that society does not have that motivation than the state fail in establishing national identity in molding national character.
.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:The USA team had over 33 foreign born atheletes flying their flags in the beijing olympics. In the track and field events, would your Angola friend says it is ALL african against african? The more well known ones are Bernard Lagat, from Kenya, Lopez Lomong from Sudan and Leo Manzano from Mexica, they are all running for the USA in the 1500 meters event.
Your Angola friends can't tell the difference between a Singaporean Chinese and a HK Chinese, can you tell the difference between a black american and a Jamaican, or a caucasian from UK and Poland? can you tell where they were born?
What really important is that the country offers the opportunity, the sportmans offer their skill. Together they bring excellence to the sport. Whether you like it or not, the team beat South Korea and won silver medal. The honors go to them, and Singapore as a country. If you people feel proud only when locally born win the medal, then you will have to wait long long.
You are right, are we learning the right answer from a single outcome? do you know that a single outcome came a long way. Singapore's table tennis association is run by a team of people who are very dedicated table tennis players, their hunt for talents went back to the 80s and it took many previous players like Jin Jun Hong to bring up the interest and standard of the game. It took these players many games overseas to develop the mental strength to play against the best in the world. They did not walk into Singapore, then to Beijing and won the silver.
How much are the other sports associations doing to develop players? Just because you are born in China does not make you a world class table tennis player, or badminton players? do what are you good at, being born in Singapore?
Many Chinese parents know how tough it is for their children to compete academically so when their children are picked for sport for their potential, it is a risk for them to send their kids to do sport, for ultimately there is only 1 gold medalist in every event! You think Singaporean born would be brave enough to take such a move?
Finally, do we have the heart, a kind and gracious heart to embrace those who work and sacrifice for our country? bear in mind, in 48 years, only 1 table tennis team made, many came here but didn't make it....are we waiting for another campaign to educate the local born?
My angola friends is a PRC working in Angola.....yeah she will be able to tell the different.
Yes there are foreign born athelics in the US but more importantly the US recruited foreign born coaches who had won medal and they train american athelics. See the diff.
What really important is that the country offers the opportunity, the sportmans offer their skill. Together they bring excellence to the sport.
I agreed with the statement but let me ask 1 simple question does our foreign born table tennis have the desire and motivation to beat the Chinese or contented with Sliver? The coaches, players said they had accomplish their goal. (Sound more like a job)
Athelics goes beyond the mental pressure and the desire to win, and that bring up the sportmanship makes them a medalist. And many many people have fail to win any medal and they return to their live or try again 4 yrs later. Yeah I call that sacrifice for years of training for an eternal glory.
I would not use the word -- Sacrifice for our Table tennis rather than a contractual relationship. PRC player would be less well off if they were to remain in PRC that is why these folks use their skill to migrate out once they got the chance.
Here is my final question. DO you think "pyschologically" the table tennis team gave it all or held back it a little. (no right or wrong answer!)
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Michael Phelps got attention because he made history. Shawn Johnson got the attention because she won gold. where does it say that they got attention just because they are true blue citizens of their country. Don't insult the american, you could be sued for racist in america.
Grow up, and be gracious.
That is because they don;t have to question their identity. I see people talk about motherland being China in this thread. What happen to being Singapore? (American are immigrant by origin.)
All the more for Singapore to send out origin athelics to establish identity.
so what is their motivation? Shawn Johnson started Gyn at the age of 6 yrs old. Her coach was formal gold medalist from PRC. Her coach and her had 10 yrs of training relationship.
Torries age 41, with daugther called Michael Phelps her son, whats her motivation?
SG is using quick fix solution if sg do not start cultivating for 2016. If these forum still exist we will be arguing the same topics.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:As said the motivation comes from within, but the states needs to cultivate national identity factors to provide direction and resources for training. Sport training start from Young.If parents does not have the economics means to support a capable young man than it is the states to move in and provide support to grow the sport
If after 40 yrs we find that society does not have that motivation than the state fail in establishing national identity in molding national character.
again, I don't disagree with you.... but reality is, if you are a parent, say middle class, have a relatively talented child, will you be more concern with him doing good in his school, PSLE, O Level, A Level, or would you ask him to chase his dream and send him to some remote place to be trained?
fact is, reality sucks.
IMO, all the sports that we excel in, swimming, sailing, bowling, is because 阿爸 and 阿妈 got money, can afford to play and engage private tutor.
I think even if LKY himself sponsor, most parents also don't want to do it.
I think even if LKY himself sponsor, most parents also don't want to do it.
If LKY sponsor enuff, then 阿爸 and 阿妈 got money liao, then can afford to play and engage private tutor le lor.
Originally posted by eagle:If LKY sponsor enuff, then 阿爸 and 阿妈 got money liao, then can afford to play and engage private tutor le lor.
singapore system is co-pay lah...
also, 阿爸 and 阿妈 will be concern with boy boy's future if cmi in sports.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:As said the motivation comes from within, but the states needs to cultivate national identity factors to provide direction and resources for training. Sport training start from Young.If parents does not have the economics means to support a capable young man than it is the states to move in and provide support to grow the sport
If after 40 yrs we find that society does not have that motivation than the state fail in establishing national identity in molding national character.
.
Is Singapore government doing enough for sports? Which sports? golf, tennis, bowling, track and fields, or soccer? I don't think Singapore should put money into developing talents for all sports. But I think enough is done for some sports, like soccer, swimming and table tennis. What else we need to do?
Motivation for sports begins at home. But kids are very much influenced by their parents. If parents are both music teachers, you are not likely to find the kids having interest in rugby.
Motivation also comes from schools. but some schools have their tradition. table tennis, in particular is a sport of the old Chinese schools, like Catholic High, Nanyang. You find it a tradition for RI, ACS and St. Andrew to fight it out in rugby. You don't find any students who study in RI, ACS or St. Andrew from Pr. 1 to JC and can excel in table tennis. I do know that if you play table tennis well and apply for RJC, you will be accepted even if you academic score is below the normal entry mark. Foreign talent?
Soccer is the only sport that is enjoyed nation wide, but what have we achieved?
But what is most important, the mentality of parents. do you want to send your kids to a special school (not in a ulu area, for there is none in Singapore) just to focus on a sport? I haven't seen any true blue singaporean parents who have that kind of passion, tell me I am wrong. It is not money. I see young kids, more and more, carrying their golf bags, go under private coach, special program. are there Tiger Woods want to be? No, but golf is a game good for business, for social, a game and a sport, good for the future in business. Also tennis, tennis rackets, renting of tennis court costs a lot, but many well to do families send their kids for special lessons. Are they Nadel or federer want to be? No, no, sportsman in Singapore tan bu jia.
Want to establish national identity? first you decide who are your fellow true blue Singaporeans. Only the born in Singapore, the bumi? then you have to find who among those who hold Singapore passports are local born, how many MPs, civil servants, who are born overseas, give them the pink IC and reserve the red IC for the local born. Foreign born become citizens by the constitution of the Republic of Singapore. If you don't identify with them, they don't have to identify with you. What national identity you want?
National character, I would be very glad to want to know what is the true blue Singaporean character, care to share?
National character, I would be very glad to want to know what is the true blue Singaporean character, care to share?
1) Complain complain complain, in the end stop at there and nothing else
2) Must be kiasu to the point that in exams, lose to friends by 1 mark also can be extremely agitated.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
That is because they don;t have to question their identity. I see people talk about motherland being China in this thread. What happen to being Singapore? (American are immigrant by origin.)All the more for Singapore to send out origin athelics to establish identity.
so what is their motivation? Shawn Johnson started Gyn at the age of 6 yrs old. Her coach was formal gold medalist from PRC. Her coach and her had 10 yrs of training relationship.
Torries age 41, with daugther called Michael Phelps her son, whats her motivation?
SG is using quick fix solution if sg do not start cultivating for 2016. If these forum still exist we will be arguing the same topics.
are you a chinese? If you ask your father, "ä½ çš„ç¥–å›½æ˜¯é‚£é‡Œï¼Ÿ" what would he say?
Dont tell me americans are immigrant by origin. there are also first generation americans, like Singapore. Just that they have strict racist law to prevent racism, and they believe americans are truely equal, whether you are born locally or new immigrant. or is it they are more gracious in accommodating the new comers?
do you think Singapore don't want to send the true blue athleletes huh? show the result first lah.
Originally posted by eagle:1) Complain complain complain, in the end stop at there and nothing else
2) Must be kiasu to the point that in exams, lose to friends by 1 mark also can be extremely agitated.
unfortunately I have to agree with you. This is so very true.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:unfortunately I have to agree with you. This is so very true.
Sadly, because of point number 2, some students are very very unwilling to share their resources or teach their friends how to do questions. Very bad culture. (This is also happening in the teaching profession, because of their new grading system, and that about 5% must be in grade D.)
Originally posted by eagle:Sadly, because of point number 2, some students are very very unwilling to share their resources or teach their friends how to do questions. Very bad culture. (This is also happening in the teaching profession, because of their new grading system, and that about 5% must be in grade D.)
There is only one way ladder to climb up to be the top, if i dun kill or cut off all competitor, how then can i excel to be on top??