Originally posted by Rednano:
speak what language to connect internationally with the world then?
A friend of mine... learned Vietnamese as a third language... go there and work. Now doing very well.
Another person I heard, learned Tagalog and moved to Phillippines to work.
If we wanna work with the westerners, better brush up english. No need govt to tell us to do so..
Never forget that the purpose of a language is only for communication.
It is primarily about cultural roots and identity in my opinion.
Language means cultural identity.
Strong cultural identity means high morale, means power.
Weak cultural identity means demoralisation.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:It is primarily about cultural roots and identity in my opinion.
Language means cultural identity.
Strong cultural identity means high morale, means power.
Weak cultural identity means demoralisation.
Fully agree! ever ask a French colleague why can't we discuss French culture in English, "French language is our culture!" I shut up, very shy.
Yes, the Englishmen now insist that the american speaks american, not english or an adulterated english language. they are now more conscious of their english culture. But unfortunately they colonised the indian subcontinent and the indians in UK are adulterating the english in the land of the Queen.
That is the reason why many Singaporean feel empty, try to find the Singaporean culture but cannot find. chinese cannot be malay even if you accept islam and call yourself Mohamad. call yourselves Jonathan Wilson Chen still won't be acknowledged as a lao wai.
Singapore is too young to have our own culture developed. Singlish is a good start. It is a unique Singaporean identify, I will keep it.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:It is primarily about cultural roots and identity in my opinion.
Language means cultural identity.
Strong cultural identity means high morale, means power.
Weak cultural identity means demoralisation.
then what should be the language for administrative for working in unison in multi races singapore?
Let me give my two cent's worth....
How LKY and Low Thia Khiang speak is directly connected to their upbringing and how they were educated. One comes from a primarily English speaking background while the other was education in a Chinese environment. Hence whether one speaks with a slight English accent and the other in a Teochew accented English is not really intentional.
So, please, to those who are already bias towards one person, at least be objective in this observation. I am in no way implying that one language of education is superior to another.
Back to the topic: What then is GOOD English? I don't think the intent is to say that spoken English has to carry an accent of another country.
Language in itself is dynamic - as long as the person listening to you is able to make up what you are saying, it can be deemed that communication has taken place, regardless of whether good or bad English is spoken.
But to broaden the argument - what is GOOD English when we are dealing with other people beyond your circle of influence? Actually it is no different from the previous paragraph.
However, taking into context the level of language prowess among our people, I don't think it is wrong to state that many Singapores do not speak GOOD English because foreigners may not understand what we are saying....
It goes beyond accent - it goes into the jargons, the colloqualism, the patois etc. Many people are not able to remove these when communicating, hence the chances of beind misunderstood or not understood is very high.
I know these for a fact because I work with foreigners either here or their home country. And when I communicate, I have to ensure that my language is crisp, precise, and clear.
I think there is a need to speak a better english, one way is to exterminate singlish. I find that a lot of the people speak singlish and yet claimed that is english. The "lah, leh" are not part of english, they are more on the mandarine side. So when we speak one language, we speak it properly.
Originally posted by henshin:I think there is a need to speak a better english, one way is to exterminate singlish. I find that a lot of the people speak singlish and yet claimed that is english. The "lah, leh" are not part of english, they are more on the mandarine side. So when we speak one language, we speak it properly.
Well said. Singlish is good as a flavour to spice up a conversation during parties when you're drunk, but not meant to make up the entire conversation all the time.
I think there is a need to speak a better english, one way is to exterminate singlish.
That won't be easy, since it is the education system itself that created singlish.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:That won't be easy, since it is the education system itself that created singlish.
Why would you suggest that?
Why would you suggest that?
What do you mean?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Let me give my two cent's worth....
How LKY and Low Thia Khiang speak is directly connected to their upbringing and how they were educated. One comes from a primarily English speaking background while the other was education in a Chinese environment. Hence whether one speaks with a slight English accent and the other in a Teochew accented English is not really intentional.
So, please, to those who are already bias towards one person, at least be objective in this observation. I am in no way implying that one language of education is superior to another.
Back to the topic: What then is GOOD English? I don't think the intent is to say that spoken English has to carry an accent of another country.
Language in itself is dynamic - as long as the person listening to you is able to make up what you are saying, it can be deemed that communication has taken place, regardless of whether good or bad English is spoken.
But to broaden the argument - what is GOOD English when we are dealing with other people beyond your circle of influence? Actually it is no different from the previous paragraph.
However, taking into context the level of language prowess among our people, I don't think it is wrong to state that many Singapores do not speak GOOD English because foreigners may not understand what we are saying....
It goes beyond accent - it goes into the jargons, the colloqualism, the patois etc. Many people are not able to remove these when communicating, hence the chances of beind misunderstood or not understood is very high.
I know these for a fact because I work with foreigners either here or their home country. And when I communicate, I have to ensure that my language is crisp, precise, and clear.
I applaud you for your convincing and well-rounded argument.
"Language in itself is dynamic - as long as the person listening to you is able to make up what you are saying, it can be deemed that communication has taken place, regardless of whether good or bad English is spoken."
People from different cultures are brought up in different kind of speaking habits which includes pronounciation, accents, etc.
Hypothetically speaking, if someone who was brought up in a all-Cantonese speaking environment, and being billingual, this person speaks good English (i.e. no "lah", "leh" , "lor", etc.). Would you agree that a westerner will find it difficult to make out the words that this person is speaking? ... He will be replacing "R" sounds with "L", most of the time... e.g. "I like to lun in the morning... and then lide my bicycle to wok"...
*** In case you don't know, Cantonese has little or no words that starts with the consonent "R" ***
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:What do you mean?
I mean... Why is it that our education system created Singlish? I know it's a point for teachers not to infuse Singlish with any lessons?
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:That won't be easy, since it is the education system itself that created singlish.
wrong, society locally creates it in the 50s... rojak... how to talk to huang kias, ah nehs, ah pu nehs, ah bengs, ah sengs in one common language...
Originally posted by Rednano:
wrong, society locally creates it in the 50s... rojak... how to talk to huang kias, ah nehs, ah pu nehs, ah bengs, ah sengs in one common language...
But back then, Malay was the commonly spoken language. If I'm not mistaken, most people could speak what they call "melayu pasar" (Market Malay) or something like that...
I mean... Why is it that our education system created Singlish?
Anyone trained under the Singapore public school system will naturally pick up the singlish style of speaking.
The reason for that is due to the way language is taught to school children at a young age.
Two languages are taught at an early age, with the child being bombarded with vocabulary from two languages, one being english, the other mother tongue.
The emphasis in the Singapore school system is on english language, since it is the medium of instruction in teaching maths, science etc, and not mother tongue.
The effects of such early bombardment of two languages on children is the result of "singlish".
Meaning rojak language, since two languages is taught at the same time to a child.
In other school systems, only one language is taught, so the child from the beginning has a good grasp of the language, without confusion from another language being taught at the same time.
This can be seen in the Taiwan school system, where their grasp of mandarin is far better than the average Singaporean.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Anyone trained under the Singapore public school system will naturally pick up the singlish style of speaking.
The reason for that is due to the way language is taught to school children at a young age.
Two languages are taught at an early age, with the child being bombarded with vocabulary from two languages, one being english, the other mother tongue.
The emphasis in the Singapore school system is on english language, since it is the medium of instruction in teaching maths, science etc, and not mother tongue.
The effects of such early bombardment of two languages on children is the result of "singlish".
Meaning rojak language, since two languages is taught at the same time to a child.
In other school systems, only one language is taught, so the child from the beginning has a good grasp of the language, without confusion from another language being taught at the same time.
This can be seen in the Taiwan school system, where their grasp of mandarin is far better than the average Singaporean.
so u expect chinese, malays, indians to learn just 1 sole language lah... and which is?
so u expect chinese, malays, indians to learn just 1 sole language lah... and which is?
No, not that.
But the alien language should be taught at a later age, when the mother tongue had already been firmed grasped.
Not same time bomabrd two languages.
Than how do small kids of different race communicate?
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Anyone trained under the Singapore public school system will naturally pick up the singlish style of speaking.
The reason for that is due to the way language is taught to school children at a young age.
Two languages are taught at an early age, with the child being bombarded with vocabulary from two languages, one being english, the other mother tongue.
The emphasis in the Singapore school system is on english language, since it is the medium of instruction in teaching maths, science etc, and not mother tongue.
The effects of such early bombardment of two languages on children is the result of "singlish".
Meaning rojak language, since two languages is taught at the same time to a child.
In other school systems, only one language is taught, so the child from the beginning has a good grasp of the language, without confusion from another language being taught at the same time.
This can be seen in the Taiwan school system, where their grasp of mandarin is far better than the average Singaporean.
Perhaps this is true, but maybe those that attempt to learn both English and a mother tongue may get confused, thus picking up Singlish unknowingly.
I personally think that too much emphasis is placed on mother tongue, since English is the language used worldwide.
Then again, we have the excuse of mother tongue being necessary so we remember our "roots".
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:No, not that.
But the alien language should be taught at a later age, when the mother tongue had already been firmed grasped.
Not same time bomabrd two languages.
Also... scientific research proves that language is easily grasped at an early age of a child's development. Maybe the Government is trying to make students learn both early? (Kia Su?)
Originally posted by skythewood:Than how do small kids of different race communicate?
yah... pls provide solution
Originally posted by XenStar:Perhaps this is true, but maybe those that attempt to learn both English and a mother tongue may get confused, thus picking up Singlish unknowingly.
I personally think that too much emphasis is placed on mother tongue, since English is the language used worldwide.
Then again, we have the excuse of mother tongue being necessary so we remember our "roots".
but then again, do u see singlish being written in business documents?
Originally posted by XenStar:Also... scientific research proves that language is easily grasped at an early age of a child's development. Maybe the Government is trying to make students learn both early? (Kia Su?)
not kiasu... cos back then our fathers times got chinese schools and malay schools... like now in malaysia... still got chinese school use chinese to teach...
Maybe the Government is trying to make students learn both early? (Kai Su?)
You get singlish.
Originally posted by skythewood:Than how do small kids of different race communicate?
mr Poh Ah Pak, pls answer this