Some may think that those who emigrated are the better educated ones.
However, they are those who had 'mediocre' exam results based on Singapore's meritocracy system. They couldn't go further after their ITE education but they are accepted by colleges and universities in other countries. They found jobs after graduation and eventually decided to settled overseas.
Had they stayed on in Singapore, they would have been branded as losers.
Originally posted by angel7030:
but they forgot to survey those who repatriate back to Singapore after kenna bully or cannot make it in foreign land.
Oh, this will become headlines in the States Times if there is any.
They should be asking.
Of the thousands who leave Singapore... how many will be coming back for retirement ?
Originally posted by googoomuck:Some may think that those who emigrated are the better educated ones.
However, they are those who had 'mediocre' exam results based on Singapore's meritocracy system. They couldn't go further after their ITE education but they are accepted by colleges and universities in other countries. They found jobs after graduation and eventually decided to settled overseas.
Had they stayed on in Singapore, they would have been branded as losers.
Not true. There are many who went to prestigious universities in the UK and US, and after having a taste of life there decided not to return. How about those who went to study overseas on government scholarships then decided to break their bond? Are they losers too? Sounds like 'sour grapes' syndrome to me.
The article rightly pointed out that many Singaporeans emigrate not just for economic reasons. I wonder what the migration push factors for a developed nation like Singaporea are? Are these same factors relevant to other developed nations like the US, UK or European nations??
singapore is a developed country which offers the best pay a third world country can offer.
our fresh graduates are paid peanuts as compared to graduates of the US, US, Japan etc. starting pay of above SGD$1800 as oppose to US$2.5k-3k.
here, 9-10 hours workdays are common, with very little to show for their hardwork, and it certainly doesn't help that not only that their pay is shrinking, their working hours are also getting longer and longer, with prices of things rising faster and faster.
the economic situation and the political situation are stiffling, and that you can't really seek a political solution to handle your economic problems, well, i guess most of you probably know what i am talking about, given the state of the opposition currently.
yes, the government may show statistics about GDP, and avg capita growth. but at the end of the day, they are just stats and does not accurately reflect the majority of the people in singapore. look at the straits time classified. how many jobs are there with pay above $2000? above $2500?
most of the job offerings are offering $1000++ salary. so what if the government is able to create so many of these low quality jobs? at the end of the day, it is still not worthwhile for singaporeans to slog for meagre pay which couldn't even support their family. not that these jobs are taxing though. some pay as little as $3.50 per hour, for 12 hours of work. can anyone of you, support your family with that meagre pay? (assuming family of 8; 2 kids, wife, yourself, in-laws and parents.)
not only do singaporeans find their employment opportunities taken away by foreigners, the presence of large numbers of cheap foreign talent also spoil market, depressing wages artificially, and this is the result of lax immigration policies.
the aim of importing foreign talents was originally to supplement our economy, to fill in positions we have labour shortage in. it was not to "complement", where they compete locals for jobs, when we already have plenty of surplus labour around.
all i see is that the ministers are always asking why singaporeans are so discontent with the economy when they have afterall, created so many jobs. imo, they are out of touch with reality, leeching off their mulit-million salaries, of which is fully borned by taxpayers, unable to connect with the fact that many of these jobs are not viable for anyone to support their family. earning millions, how could they understand the hardship of those earning only thousands?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:even among Singaporean there are much differences among ourselves, may be not so much in our accent, but a lot in our culture, and mindset too.
we have come a long way to accept that there is going to be many hundred years for a unique Singaporean culture to evolve, in the mean time we understand, and respect the differences, especially among different races and religion, which are all part of our different culture.
So if many locally born Singaporeans go away, and many foreigners come Singapore, at a constant rate,
do you think that there will still be many hundred years for a unique Singaporean culture to appear?
If u think singapore is really bad and other countries r so terrific, then u should really try to emigrate out and seek a happier lifestyle. US may have higher pay but higher unemployment rate, japan have a more costly standard of living + working more than singaporean and u spent much more on much smaller housing there.
And if u look at foreigners in singapore, I got to ask tis... there r probably a million of foreigners in singapore and the unemployment rate is about 2-3%. Tis is refered by economist to be a full employment number and any lower is bad for everyone. If u translate down, singaporean need more job holders than the actual singapore population. If suddenly all foreigners dissappear, than who is to cover their 1 million jobs ? If u r the gov, wat will u propose to do ?
Originally posted by eagle:So if many locally born Singaporeans go away, and many foreigners come Singapore, at a constant rate,
do you think that there will still be many hundred years for a unique Singaporean culture to appear?
It depends on what do you see in a culture. why do you think only those born in Singapore can develop a uniquely Singaporean culture?
Of course if everybody come here and their next generation would move out, then it would be difficult for the society to develop something that could last long enough to become a local culture. But is it too soon to say about something that would require 100 of years to evolve?
Originally posted by jojobeach:They should be asking.
Of the thousands who leave Singapore... how many will be coming back for retirement ?
come back to retire? I thought angel is talking about people who are "repatriate back to Singapore after kenna bully or cannot make it in foreign land." meaning those who went overseas and came back, could not make it or found Singapore still a better place to live.
If you really made it overseas, why do you want to come back to retire? cost of living high, medical fees exorbitant, .....why come back to pay all these?
Originally posted by wheelcamp:
Majority of the lot comes from PRC. I mentioned China. Did I mention Malaysia or Indonesia in my above post? Did I mention comparing northern and southern Chinese faces in my above post?
why PRC only? simply because of the numbers or there is racial prejudice?
Originally posted by wheelcamp:
Local Singaporeans also share many similarities developed and unique to this place.
That is Singaporeans identity, isn't it?
Originally posted by deathmaster:singapore is a developed country which offers the best pay a third world country can offer.
our fresh graduates are paid peanuts as compared to graduates of the US, US, Japan etc. starting pay of above SGD$1800 as oppose to US$2.5k-3k.
here, 9-10 hours workdays are common, with very little to show for their hardwork, and it certainly doesn't help that not only that their pay is shrinking, their working hours are also getting longer and longer, with prices of things rising faster and faster.
the economic situation and the political situation are stiffling, and that you can't really seek a political solution to handle your economic problems, well, i guess most of you probably know what i am talking about, given the state of the opposition currently.
yes, the government may show statistics about GDP, and avg capita growth. but at the end of the day, they are just stats and does not accurately reflect the majority of the people in singapore. look at the straits time classified. how many jobs are there with pay above $2000? above $2500?
most of the job offerings are offering $1000++ salary. so what if the government is able to create so many of these low quality jobs? at the end of the day, it is still not worthwhile for singaporeans to slog for meagre pay which couldn't even support their family. not that these jobs are taxing though. some pay as little as $3.50 per hour, for 12 hours of work. can anyone of you, support your family with that meagre pay? (assuming family of 8; 2 kids, wife, yourself, in-laws and parents.)
not only do singaporeans find their employment opportunities taken away by foreigners, the presence of large numbers of cheap foreign talent also spoil market, depressing wages artificially, and this is the result of lax immigration policies.
the aim of importing foreign talents was originally to supplement our economy, to fill in positions we have labour shortage in. it was not to "complement", where they compete locals for jobs, when we already have plenty of surplus labour around.
all i see is that the ministers are always asking why singaporeans are so discontent with the economy when they have afterall, created so many jobs. imo, they are out of touch with reality, leeching off their mulit-million salaries, of which is fully borned by taxpayers, unable to connect with the fact that many of these jobs are not viable for anyone to support their family. earning millions, how could they understand the hardship of those earning only thousands?
That's the reality you'll never see in any Singapore media so the average Singaporean will continue to live thinking that the PAP is a good government.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:It depends on what do you see in a culture. why do you think only those born in Singapore can develop a uniquely Singaporean culture?
Of course if everybody come here and their next generation would move out, then it would be difficult for the society to develop something that could last long enough to become a local culture. But is it too soon to say about something that would require 100 of years to evolve?
Well, if everybody come here and their next generation would move out (or maybe 3 generations later move out), then it would be difficult for the society to develop something that could last long enough to become a local culture at a constant rate (or if we follow what the article says, increasing rate), do you really really think there would even be a local culture developing?
It would be a 'restart' every few generations.
Some people above still want to be as blind when I have already pointed out facts about the unemployment figure in another thread, of which that forumer till now still fail to prove that it is against any law, something which he claimed, but failed to substantiate. He emailed MOM, IRA, but till now, still no concrete answers.
In fact, I have copied a post from CNA forums before, and I shall repeat it here.
On the subject of helping to CREATE jobs, this is what actually happens:
There is a quota system for employer to hire foreign worker (SP & WP). The employer must have a number of local headcounts (C + PR) and based on this is then allocated foreign worker quota. For example in the services sector, it will need to "employ" 5 local workers to get a quota of 5 WP of which only 1 can be from PRC.
Many SMEs and small restaurants and shops will not have so many local employees. So in order to get the quota, what these companies did was to simply contribute CPF for some housewives, their uncles and aunties who are not working.
Ha ha, now we suddenly got an improvement in labor employment and most amazingly, many senior citizens or older workers are back in the workforce again. I remember our dear Dr. Ng EH was so proud of his ministries, but they either do not know the real reasons or pretended not to know.
So we got PHANTOM JOBS being created for the local workforce and got VIRTUAL improvements in unemployment figures! -- everything is virutal that sounds like computer games more than reality.
http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?t=172561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
Originally posted by eagle:Some people above still want to be as blind when I have already pointed out facts about the unemployment figure in another thread......
Lemme show you why I don't trust manipulated figures and statistics.
If there is a boat with 10 people on it and 3 fell off. That's 30% that fell off.
You cramp 90 more people on that boat and 17 more fell off. In total now only 20% fell off. Seems like an inprovement doesn't it?
In reality 20 people fell off now as opposed to only 3 before.
The figures also don't tell you if the original 7 were among the 17 that just fell off, nor does it tell you the condition of that over crowded boat now and how the reminder 80 people are barely keeping from falling off too.
Originally posted by eagle:Well, if everybody come here and their next generation would move out (or maybe 3 generations later move out), then it would be difficult for the society to develop something that could last long enough to become a local culture at a constant rate (or if we follow what the article says, increasing rate), do you really really think there would even be a local culture developing?
It would be a 'restart' every few generations.
In a globalized environment, it is indeed very difficult for any particular way of life to develop into a unique culture, more so in the future than it was in the past. If somebody started doing something that is worthwhile emulating, then it is emulated everyway, not just Singapore. If it is difficult for Singapore to develop its own culture because of moving population, then this moving population is also affecting the culture of others.
As it is, new cultures evolved for people of all countries, the Generation Y, the yuppies and so on...and this is borderless. but, there would still be something that would be peculiar to a particular place, due to its weather, the profile of its population...
it really didn't take very long for Singlish to evolve into something uniquely Singaporean.
Some cuisines popular among Singaporean are being identified as Singaporean, even though you still find Laksa in Penang but they have to call it Penang Laksa.
Even food court is something many foreigners would associate with Singapore even though we find such places in many other Asian countries.
May be Singapore would become a city so international that you see images of every other nations here, in that case, even the local born would have to be international to survive. It is not only the foreign born kids who prefer McDonalds, and the local kids want only chwee Queh.
Some people above still want to be as blind when I have already pointed out facts about the unemployment figure in another thread, of which that forumer till now still fail to prove that it is against any law, something which he claimed, but failed to substantiate. He emailed MOM, IRA, but till now, still no concrete answers.
Your unemployment figure in the other thread is still showing 2-3% unemployed people. Why do u bring in local to foreigner ratio ? R they the same thing ?
If u talk unique singapore culture, u seemed to be assuming most people r emigrated out while most people r immigrated in. However fact is tat most people in singapore stay in singapore and therefore a unique culture can exist.
Originally posted by wheelcamp:
Majority of the lot comes from PRC. I mentioned China. Did I mention Malaysia or Indonesia in my above post? Did I mention comparing northern and southern Chinese faces in my above post?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:why PRC only? simply because of the numbers or there is racial prejudice?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
There has always been one identity, Singaporean, in four different versions, the Chinese, the Malays, the Indians and the Others.
Originally posted by wheelcamp:
Identity is more than just looks. Include accent, cultural level, mindset etc.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:even among Singaporean there are much differences among ourselves, may be not so much in our accent, but a lot in our culture, and mindset too.
Originally posted by wheelcamp:
Local Singaporeans also share many similarities developed and unique to this place.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
That is Singaporeans identity, isn't it?
The heat is on.
some countries such as US has higher unemployment cause the people choose not to work. There's this thing call social security.
The other thing is that you must understand how the unemployment rate is calculated.
Its is calculated base on : "unemployed workers" are those who are currently not working but are willing and able to work for pay, currently available to work, and have actively searched for work.
Now if a person is not actively searching for work, then he is dropped off from that number. Its just a percentage number and never a true reflection of what is the actual situation. So I prefer people to stop quoting statistics because this tends to be based on a lot of economic assumptions. And you know what economist like to do? They have alot of assumptions so as to model systems.
if you want to know how many are true blue local singaporean just visit the stat board on popluation numbers: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html
But a walk on the streets or a ride on the train will tell you that the foreigners now outnumber locals. A whole train cabin, sometimes can be half to 3 quarter full of foreigners.
Originally posted by mistyblue:if you want to know how many are true blue local singaporean just visit the stat board on popluation numbers: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html
But a walk on the streets or a ride on the train will tell you that the foreigners now outnumber locals. A whole train cabin, sometimes can be half to 3 quarter full of foreigners.
Sad. Thanks to the ruling party, leehsienlong, dictator lee. When I walk on the street and notice so many foreigners makes me think if I am in my own country at all.
Now if a person is not actively searching for work, then he is dropped off from that number. Its just a percentage number and never a true reflection of what is the actual situation
I think the figure for people not actively searching for work is after not finding jobs for a number of years. Tis removes people who wanna become full time housewives, dead, vegetable, retired, depend on the nation for welfare etc. And yes, if u want to depend on the state for welfare, u r not part of the unemployment rate unless there is incentives to do so. Economists and probably the expert in tis field had agreed on how to classify unemployment and wat is not considered as unemployment. Generally the figure should be trusted since it is really the case where few people cannot find jobs at all.