Elitists in Singapore
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As usual I felt liberal democracy is all bull... looking at Asia countries, i cannot seem to be able to name a democratic country tat is giving out good governance...
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Originally posted by parn:
You need to revert to my previous quote to understand the reason for making a distinction between democracy and government.
You still FAILED to correctly identify and highlight the "issues" you mentioned in your post. It's not even a popular dissent as you have mentioned, only a few "rebels" here in sgforums and all their clones are not sufficient to pass off as "popular dissent".
And what makes you think there are purer examples overseas? Again this is another vague comments of yours without any names of any countries overseas to back up your claim. If you are unable to back up your claims with any purer examples, you are just arguing for the sake of doing so.
Is this another one of your arguing for the sake of doing it?
One more mistake that you've made, governmental values are based on democratic values. If not, convince us the difference between your governmental values and democratic values.
By the way, I won't be surprised if you launch another personal attack because you are unable to prove your point. I rather take that than have people like you to confuse others with your headless argument.
"this is another vague comments of yours without any names of any countries overseas to back up your claim. If you are unable to back up your claims with any purer examples, you are just arguing for the sake of doing so.
Is this another one of your arguing for the sake of doing it?"
Do you realise that NONE of your prior posts have ANY examples to back up your claims ? So how ?"One more mistake that you've made, governmental values are based on democratic values. If not, convince us the difference between your governmental values and democratic values."
OH REALLY? so are communist governmental values based on democratic values too? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking a out?
One more thing, you replied to all kinds of irrelevant things, but not the main argument? Do you even understand what my main argument was? (You are welcome to avoid this question if its too difficult for you)
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They used to have another word for these "elitists." I believe it was "Aristocrats."
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
"this is another vague comments of yours without any names of any countries overseas to back up your claim. If you are unable to back up your claims with any purer examples, you are just arguing for the sake of doing so.
Is this another one of your arguing for the sake of doing it?"
Do you realise that NONE of your prior posts have ANY examples to back up your claims ? So how ?"One more mistake that you've made, governmental values are based on democratic values. If not, convince us the difference between your governmental values and democratic values."
OH REALLY? so are communist governmental values based on democratic values too? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking a out?
One more thing, you replied to all kinds of irrelevant things, but not the main argument? Do you even understand what my main argument was? (You are welcome to avoid this question if its too difficult for you)
My post were clear enough for anyone to understand, unlike yours.
I don't think anyone knows what your main argument was, since you randomly quoted and commented on my post.
You should have quoted and replied to the TS's post if you want to argue about your elusive "main argument". I'm not TS, and by quoting my post does not provide you with any arguments, cos my post were not meant for you in the first place. Unless you want to argue for the sake of doing so, by all means...you can go ahead and make a fool out of yourself if you FAILED to follow my entire posts in this topic before you decide to squeeze your arguments into mine.
And the governmental values in the argument were referring to Singapore governmental values, so don't try to change topic and bring out communism which is totally irrevelant in here.
Why don't you just admit you are just arguing for the sake of doing so?
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Originally posted by parn:
My post were clear enough for anyone to understand, unlike yours.
I don't think anyone knows what your main argument was, since you randomly quoted and commented on my post.
You should have quoted and replied to the TS's post if you want to argue about your elusive "main argument". I'm not TS, and by quoting my post does not provide you with any arguments, cos my post were not meant for you in the first place. Unless you want to argue for the sake of doing so, by all means...you can go ahead and make a fool out of yourself if you FAILED to follow my entire posts in this topic before you decide to squeeze your arguments into mine.
And the governmental values in the argument were referring to Singapore governmental values, so don't try to change topic and bring out communism which is totally irrevelant in here.
Why don't you just admit you are just arguing for the sake of doing so?
"and by quoting my post does not provide you with any arguments, cos my post were not meant for you in the first place."
So what makes you think any of the posts were for you ? I dont see anyone asking YOU to answer. Then why are you here in the first place?
"I don't think anyone knows what your main argument was, since you randomly quoted and commented on my post."
Just because you can't understand my vocab, don't assume everyone can't.
"the governmental values in the argument were referring to Singapore governmental values"
So are you claiming that Singaporean governmental values has no difference from democratic governmental values?
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Originally posted by parn:
My post were clear enough for anyone to understand, unlike yours.
I don't think anyone knows what your main argument was, since you randomly quoted and commented on my post.
You should have quoted and replied to the TS's post if you want to argue about your elusive "main argument". I'm not TS, and by quoting my post does not provide you with any arguments, cos my post were not meant for you in the first place. Unless you want to argue for the sake of doing so, by all means...you can go ahead and make a fool out of yourself if you FAILED to follow my entire posts in this topic before you decide to squeeze your arguments into mine.
And the governmental values in the argument were referring to Singapore governmental values, so don't try to change topic and bring out communism which is totally irrevelant in here.
Why don't you just admit you are just arguing for the sake of doing so?
So isn't democracy a system of Government?
"Democracy' is a form of government in which the supreme power is held completely by the people under a free electoral system."
With its roots in the Greek Words "Demo Kratos", literally translated as "people rule" or "people power/strength"
Which brings me back to my first post in this thread, where I disagreed with the analogy where the general populace are the children with the Govenment being the Parent. I know I took an oath to build a democratic society. As I am sure, everyone serving in the government has.
Unless its possible for a democratic society to exist without a democratic form of Government, thats in itself si a whole different subject matter altogether.
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Originally posted by Jontst78:
So isn't democracy a system of Government?
"Democracy' is a form of government in which the supreme power is held completely by the people under a free electoral system."
With its roots in the Greek Words "Demo Kratos", literally translated as "people rule" or "people power/strength"
Which brings me back to my first post in this thread, where I disagreed with the analogy where the general populace are the children with the Govenment being the Parent. I know I took an oath to build a democratic society. As I am sure, everyone serving in the government has.
Unless its possible for a democratic society to exist without a democratic form of Government, thats in itself si a whole different subject matter altogether.
Democracy is an ideal adopted by the Government. Communism is also an ideal adopted by another Government.
Before you tell people that you took an oath to build a democratic society, how about you tell us "Do you love your country and fellow countrymen?" And what did you do to protect the equality, peace, stability in order for Singapore to continue to be a prosperous nation?
Remember your pledge!
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aiyah.. i read that blog a few entries i sian already..
nothing new.. just want to suan siao singaporeans.. who got so eng everytime go honglim park and sound out against a govt who turns a blind eye to everything bad and sings good praises about their own..? she got money got food on table of course chui gong lampa song.. if she today no food no money, she will talk so much?
if she's half as great as she makes herself out to be, i'll gladly vote her..
but too bad, empty vessels makes the loudest noise..
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Complete and utter democracy means absolute freedom leh, it's theoretical lor. I don't think any country in this world has achieved total democracy.
For Singapore I would like to see freedom of press, speech and freedom in politics can liao.
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Originally posted by parn:
Democracy is an ideal adopted by the Government. Communism is also an ideal adopted by another Government.
Before you tell people that you took an oath to build a democratic society, how about you tell us "Do you love your country and fellow countrymen?" And what did you do to protect the equality, peace, stability in order for Singapore to continue to be a prosperous nation?
Remember your pledge!
Yup I remember the pledge. "To build a democratic society based, on justice and equality." Love of country and loyalty to the ruling party are not the same thing. And out of the love of Singapore, I feel that there has to be more checks and balances in the current governmental system.
Yes, they have taken steps to be less paternal. Is it enough?
And I didnt come up with the definition of democracy that I had in an earlier post.
Which brings me back to my original post in this thread, where in a democratic society is one where the power is with the people Where I disagreed that a democratic society is NOT where the government is the parent and the populace are cthe children.
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Originally posted by soleachip:
Complete and utter democracy means absolute freedom leh, it's theoretical lor. I don't think any country in this world has achieved total democracy.
For Singapore I would like to see freedom of press, speech and freedom in politics can liao.
In singapore, freedom of vote and election is deem demorcacy, if you wants freedom of press, speech or politics, vote the oppositions lah. And see if they can give u freedom of press, speech and politics as promised in their rally
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- Yes, they have taken steps to be less paternal. Is it enough?
Well, i guess the question i would post is that will it ever be enough, given human nature? I don't mean it as a sarcastic comment or personal attack but humans always have a bad habit of wanting more once they get something.
The PAP has always have a reputation of being authoritarian and i see it as a major concession already. I rather see it being done in slow, cautious steps than let it blow up in a major uprising, in the likes of Thailand, Philipines and Indonesia.
I agree with parn, Democracy is an ideal much like a Theocracy and Communism. It has its flaws just like any system. The current PAP government is more of a democractic/socialism mixture where the society is prized more over the individual.
Your vote is there, vote for the opposition if you feel that they are capable enough but don't do it simply out of spite. That is irresponsible and you mess up the future generation because of it.
To stick with the topic, Elitists will exist in all forms of society and systems. Some people will always be more "equal".
The only thing we can do is to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, to prevent them from abusing the less privileged. We can't exactly get them to shut up, then we deprived them of the right to free speech as well no?
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I am saddened by the recent posting made by some filipinos in their posting at SGPinoy.com. They were rediculing the way some singaporeans speaking English. Is this the foreign talents we wish to have in this country that belittle our english standard and behave arrogantly as though their spoken and written english language is simply impeccable.
please view their postings:
http://www.pinoysg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Originally posted by Pinoyfren:
I am saddened by the recent posting made by some filipinos in their posting at SGPinoy.com. They were rediculing the way some singaporeans speaking English. Is this the foreign talents we wish to have in this country that belittle our english standard and behave arrogantly as though their spoken and written english language is simply impeccable.
please view their postings:
http://www.pinoysg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
nice nick.
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Originally posted by Pinoyfren:
I am saddened by the recent posting made by some filipinos in their posting at SGPinoy.com. They were rediculing the way some singaporeans speaking English. Is this the foreign talents we wish to have in this country that belittle our english standard and behave arrogantly as though their spoken and written english language is simply impeccable.
please view their postings:
http://www.pinoysg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Just show them the money. Talk less and u will be honored -
Originally posted by Jontst78:
Yup I remember the pledge. "To build a democratic society based, on justice and equality." Love of country and loyalty to the ruling party are not the same thing. And out of the love of Singapore, I feel that there has to be more checks and balances in the current governmental system.
Yes, they have taken steps to be less paternal. Is it enough?
And I didnt come up with the definition of democracy that I had in an earlier post.
Which brings me back to my original post in this thread, where in a democratic society is one where the power is with the people Where I disagreed that a democratic society is NOT where the government is the parent and the populace are cthe children.
Did I tell you that I loves Children?
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Wow, all this over the same word with a small caps p or a capital P. the last i checked all forms of spell check identify them to be the same word with the same meaning. A challenge to the educated, find another word to use. Or at least try to awaken the masses without offending them.
Art is up to the interpretation of the viewer, Debating for a cause is not art. Good luck convincing everyone that there is a difference in meaning between Peasant and peasant.
Also, people live their own daily lives filled with various complexities, trials and tribulations. Though i find the sight of many current media icons revoulting, far be it for me to decide who the masses should or should not give their attention to. (this doesn't mean i can't criticize the heck outta said media icons... xp)
While i may have a false elitist notion from judging on high the calibur of people by their interests and attention, that is not to say that i am in any way correct in by elitist opinions.
That said, this innitial post is kinda elitist. Sure there are smart people in colleges and bookstores but don't be fooled to think that there aren't any smart peasants.
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genie... you seem really fired up on this topic. i assume you felt personal conviction pertaining to this issue?
in any case, i agree with your views. peasant mentality is an illness. However, so is elitism i guess. i suppose we can all be balanced in our world view. think beyond the box with humility and don't self defeat?
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elitist is not nice. support the minions instead
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subsequent to my comment, i realized that you were just reflecting the views of lady melissa... anyhow, though the opinions were rather harsh, i would say it does have a certain degree of truth... not taking into considerations of exceptional cases, that is.
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complain about elitists...
maybe we should have a cultural revolution like China?
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Originally posted by eagle:
complain about elitists...
maybe we should have a cultural revolution like China?
burn books and the school kids will be happy.
no more scholars, more farmers
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Singapore is being moulded into a playground for the rich
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Singapore is a 6 star hotel for the rich.
Really.
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so usa is only a 5 star hotel/
what talking you?