Chee Soon Juan cheated Wall Street Journal
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The market reflects the current reality and pricing.
But the current pricing may be over price or under price.
be delusional to think that the market does not reflect reality.
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If the market is always right, and the Singapore Dollar strength reflects the strong economic fundamentals, it can hardly explain the conflicting scenario in the USA.
Despite the continuous strength of the US Dollar, the economic fundamentals in the USA can hardly be said to be strong with the meltdown of the economy preceded by the financial crash in Wall Street.
The strength of the Singapore Dollar is due to other factors - one of which is its reserves.
When the truth is finally known about the true holdings in our Reserves - and as the demands on transparency is being forced onto the affairs of GIC and Temasek - it is still early days yet to call the jury out.... (if a Singaporean can understand how the jury system works).
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How the SGD performs against the USD depends on
i. market's perception of the relative strength of the US vs Singapore economy going forward
ii. market's perception of MAS intervention
iii. actual MAS intervention
and a host of other things that I don't know...
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
In the Lees v SDP and Chee in 2006 NKF law suit case,
have CSJ submitted defence to court?
Pl think before u answer.
The answer is'' NO''.
Chees,SDP and his lawyer Ravi did not submit defence.
Therefore,court granted Summary Judgement to Lees.
They gave up their chance .Full Stop.
Did they want court treat them fears or favours?
But now CSJ cheated WSJ and readers:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121522047871629771.html
This was Chees gave up the chance to cross exam Lees.
I can stand anyone cheat!!
ref
http://online.wsj.com/public/search/page/3_0466.html?KEYWORDS=Democracy%20in%20Singapore&mod=DNH_S
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/6/16/asia/14556136&sec=asia
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/192928?page=2
Matters of Chee's
12,000 hits
You are really noisy, lionnoisy. When will you ever stop making noise but to talk sense?Everyone else is not credible except your beloved Lee Kuan Yew, Lee hsien loong and the Pay and Pay members.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
The noisy pussy has cheated participants in this Speaker's Corner yet again with his usual noisy and dishonest conduct.
Why has he intentionally behave in such misleading ways and confuse the issues that has already been well documented even in the Court proceedings - that are made by others who are determinedly more resourceful to get at the truth ?
Simple, he wants people to blindly support his beloved PAP.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
If the market is always right, and the Singapore Dollar strength reflects the strong economic fundamentals, it can hardly explain the conflicting scenario in the USA.
Despite the continuous strength of the US Dollar, the economic fundamentals in the USA can hardly be said to be strong with the meltdown of the economy preceded by the financial crash in Wall Street.
The strength of the Singapore Dollar is due to other factors - one of which is its reserves.
When the truth is finally known about the true holdings in our Reserves - and as the demands on transparency is being forced onto the affairs of GIC and Temasek - it is still early days yet to call the jury out.... (if a Singaporean can understand how the jury system works).
like i posted, if a country is powerful, it can still affect the economy. an example will be US.
but to think that Singapore can be that powerful... not very likely.
Jury system in singapore basically is you break the law, you go to jail.
Try understand the US system, you fall while walking on your neighbours' pavement, and you sue your neighbour for lots of money.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
like i posted, if a country is powerful, it can still affect the economy. an example will be US.
but to think that Singapore can be that powerful... not very likely.
Jury system in singapore basically is you break the law, you go to jail.
Try understand the US system, you fall while walking on your neighbours' pavement, and you sue your neighbour for lots of money.
How does a country that is powerful still affect the economy ? In what manner ? Are you suggesting that a powerful country can even defy the gravity pull of the forces in a market economy ?What kind of example are you expecting anyone to draw from the first inconclusive statement that you have made ?
Singapore has been seen to be a very powerful entity both financially and militarily despite its size - when compared to her immediate neighbors.
Which country do you wish Singapore to be compared with in terms of power ?
Is it realistic to do so - given the size and resource that Singapore has to work in ?
Looks like you may have got yourself confused between the words "Jury" and "Judiciary" Systems.
Try googling and understand the difference between the two words.
Singapore had a Jury System until it was thrown out of the window when LKY felt that the Law is too unpredictable when subject to the vagaries of the Citizens' views of what justice is about, and how it should be dispense.
With a Jury System, LKY cannnot control the outcome of any legal proceedings.
As much as he had feared that a Jury Panel can be subjected to pressures by a powerful or influential accused person, by disposing the Jury System he has been able to exert his influence and control who will be appointed to the Judiciary Bench.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
How does a country that is powerful still affect the economy ? In what manner ? Are you suggesting that a powerful country can even defy the gravity pull of the forces in a market economy ?What kind of example are you expecting anyone to draw from the first inconclusive statement that you have made ?
Singapore has been seen to be a very powerful entity both financially and militarily despite its size - when compared to her immediate neighbors.
Which country do you wish Singapore to be compared with in terms of power ?
Is it realistic to do so - given the size and resource that Singapore has to work in ?
Looks like you may have got yourself confused between the words "Jury" and "Judiciary" Systems.
Try googling and understand the difference between the two words.
Singapore had a Jury System until it was thrown out of the window when LKY felt that the Law is too unpredictable when subject to the vagaries of the Citizens' views of what justice is about, and how it should be dispense.
With a Jury System, LKY cannnot control the outcome of any legal proceedings.
As much as he had feared that a Jury Panel can be subjected to pressures by a powerful or influential accused person, by disposing the Jury System he has been able to exert his influence and control who will be appointed to the Judiciary Bench.
my example is quite simple, but was somehow skewed by you. big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout. good enough example for you? it cannot defy gravity, which is your words, not mine. my words was affect the economy. Singapore obviously cannot match the 700 billion bailouts.. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
How does a country that is powerful still affect the economy ? In what manner ? Are you suggesting that a powerful country can even defy the gravity pull of the forces in a market economy ?What kind of example are you expecting anyone to draw from the first inconclusive statement that you have made ?
Singapore has been seen to be a very powerful entity both financially and militarily despite its size - when compared to her immediate neighbors.
Which country do you wish Singapore to be compared with in terms of power ?
Is it realistic to do so - given the size and resource that Singapore has to work in ?
Looks like you may have got yourself confused between the words "Jury" and "Judiciary" Systems.
Try googling and understand the difference between the two words.
Singapore had a Jury System until it was thrown out of the window when LKY felt that the Law is too unpredictable when subject to the vagaries of the Citizens' views of what justice is about, and how it should be dispense.
With a Jury System, LKY cannnot control the outcome of any legal proceedings.
As much as he had feared that a Jury Panel can be subjected to pressures by a powerful or influential accused person, by disposing the Jury System he has been able to exert his influence and control who will be appointed to the Judiciary Bench.
ah, since you specifically want to discuss jury, not judiciary system, i will discuss with you. to pass judgement, the US need the jury to be seperated from home and housed in a hotel to discuss the decision, and the trial may last for weeks. ==> economicallyunfriendly and the jury are not professional judges and their judgement will obviously not be as sound as that of a judge. they can cock up more easily, sending innocent people to jail or letting guilty people free. ==> quality of judgement
they are also easier to bribe, and more difficult to choose... if you choose a fucked up jury to give fucked up judgement, they are just doing their job to their best understanding, and cannot blame them for being fucked up ==> accountability
before you come up with some bullshit of how LKY manipulate the courts, go wiki and find out how the judiciary system in singapore works. if you suspect some judge to be corrupt, go read their judgement, and court transcript, like the one about CSJ, and imagine how you would judge.
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Lucky Dr Chee Soon Juan does not have a dishonorable father persecuting dissidents and opposition and taking as much money from the public as possible and putting as much public money into his own, his relatives and his cronies pockets until he has cancer of the rectum.
As a martyr... his wife, his children and grandchildren can look forward to a blessed existence.
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Even a person with rectum of the cancer can become PM like he is the only Singaporean and the rest are silliporeans...
Sillipore, a country controlled by a despot practicising nepotism.... only sillipore can.
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...and silliporeans like this one ... do not think that "someone's ass be a problem"
Originally posted by the Bear:where else would someone's ass be a problem?
only in the mind of foaming rabid idiots..
try again...
he's got a lot of other things wrong with HIS POLICIES... don't look at his ass... that's the property of his husband's
unless you're secretly also lusting after his ass
...do not find anything wrong when a despot practising nepotism puts his asson with rectum cancer up there. Now SILLIPOREANS and SILLIPORE are suffering for keeping quiet.
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Now that Dr Chee Soon Juan is there fighting the injustice, and silliporeans do not care when despots practicing nepotism puts a rectum cancer patient up "someone's ass be a problem"; show massive support for Dr Chee Soon Juan so that he can continue to do the good work.
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Even the US Jury systems are fallible. Mafia heads get acquitted all the time and for what reason?
No system is perfect lar.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Even the US Jury systems are fallible. Mafia heads get acquitted all the time and for what reason?
No system is perfect lar.
...and with that, the people must coddle dishonorable despots and never try to improve the system?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
my example is quite simple, but was somehow skewed by you. big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout. good enough example for you? it cannot defy gravity, which is your words, not mine. my words was affect the economy. Singapore obviously cannot match the 700 billion bailouts..
Was your example so simple when it was inconclusive in the statement made ?like i posted, if a country is powerful, it can still affect the economy. an example will be US.
but to think that Singapore can be that powerful... not very likely.
Now that you have clarified your statement that a "big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout" - you have at least been encouraged to give a clearer explanation to what was stuck in your mind, which you seem to be unable to express in simple ways, and resulted in your thoughts being skewed by your inconclusive statement.
Not so clever to blame others for skewing an incomprehensible simple statement.
Do you seriously think that the 700 billion bailout will turn the US economy around - by this amount alone ?
Big countries are like small countries - economic fundamentals need to be managed at the right time and with the right dose of direct or indirect governmental supervision.
Many reviews have already stated that the present situation in the USA is due to the complete removal of regulations that allowed the Financial System to run amok by creating all kinds of financial programs.
The present US Government was at fault for the false assumption that pump priming home ownership program alone will help to boost the US economy, without any consideration that proper long term job permanence is required to support the repaymemnt to the freely available loans.
Towards this end, the US Government had removed regulations and allowed banks to offer loans to all and sundry - which the banks eagerly accepted to meet bottom line performance demands without considering the recoverable status of the loans.
As matters stand, the 700 billion bailout was not sufficient, as the recent concluded studies made by the US Congress stated that another 500 billion is required; while Obama and his new team has stated that structural changes will need to be made to the way the USA is being "managed".
Big country alone may not necessarily be "financially" powerful - if by big country you will mean population size or even in terms of territorial square kilometers.
For the USA, her territorial or population size has nothing to do with her wealth, as her wealth is due largely to her political system and the acceptane of a political ideology by both major political parties that support the liberties of the individual.
In terms of population size, the USA is smaller than China; and in terms of territorial size, the USA is smaller than Russia.
Yet it has more then trillions of dollar in private wealth within the USA - even as the country and the government is deep in debt.
Can Singapore be realistically compared to any country given the politial ideology that shackle Singaporeans ?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
ah, since you specifically want to discuss jury, not judiciary system, i will discuss with you. to pass judgement, the US need the jury to be seperated from home and housed in a hotel to discuss the decision, and the trial may last for weeks. ==> economically
Is "Justice" less important than "Economics" ?
Is one's "societal responsibilities" less important than "Economics" ?
unfriendly and the jury are not professional judges and their judgement will obviously not be as sound as that of a judge. they can cock up more easily, sending innocent people to jail or letting guilty people free. ==> quality of judgement
Your views reflect the lack of knowledge of a Judiciary System, and your adopted position is due largely to your own experience in a local system that has been promoted by the present government's preference of dispensing speedy justice for both economic and political reasons.
In a Jury System - there are checks and balances to prevent the kinds of faults that you claimed, and which is promoted by those government against such a system.
Before the Jury retire to consider their decision of a verdict, the Judge is in the Court to guide the Jury in the deliberations of the evidences presented by both sides in a trial.
The Judge is trained to determine if a mistrial has occurred, or if a verdict is flawed due to some reasons. Ultimately, the Prosecution can appeal to a Higher Court for retrial. Instances of retrial has occurred.
they are also easier to bribe, and more difficult to choose... if you choose a fucked up jury to give fucked up judgement, they are just doing their job to their best understanding, and cannot blame them for being fucked up ==> accountability
Is your arguments from watching too much serial movies ?
Did you not mention in your opening statement that it was not economical to isolate the jury from their surrounding ?
Skewed judgements have been known to be aborted, and mistrial can be ruled, while the appeal process is available to both the prosecutors and the defense counsels.
Everyone is accountable for their actions, and trial by jury is a trial by one's peers who share common societal experiences, while trial by the Judiciary has clearly shown that the Judiciary is far removed from society, and can just as easily be controlled and manipulated by the State to serve their own agenda.
Without an independent Judiciary, the citizen has no avenue for fair justice.
In such a circumstance, what accountability are you referring to ?
before you come up with some bullshit of how LKY manipulate the courts, go wiki and find out how the judiciary system in singapore works. if you suspect some judge to be corrupt, go read their judgement, and court transcript, like the one about CSJ, and imagine how you would judge.
Why will you depend on wiki to find out how the judiciary system in Singapore works ?
Why do you not use google and find out how the previous Solicitor-General of Singapore actually give you FIRST HAND ACCOUNT of how the Singapore Judiciary ACTUALLY WORK ?
It will benefit you if you try to read The Politics of Judicial Institutions in Singapore without any blinkers or shades that filter out the light.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Even the US Jury systems are fallible. Mafia heads get acquitted all the time and for what reason?
No system is perfect lar.
Did anyone suggest that any system is perfect ?At least in the USA and in UK - which our Judiciary System was supposed to have been modelled but had taken on a "frankenstein" evolution - both of these countries have a Judiciary System that is independent and accountable to the Citizens.
The tenure of the judges are permanent, and not subjected to contractural renewal to be determined either by the Prime Mnister's Office, or by the Secretary-General of the Ruling Political Party, or even by Parliament.
In the USA, the judges can be impeached by Congress and removed from Office, as the President is also subject to impeachment process by Congress.
A Jury System is a system where a citizen's criminal offense is judged by his own peers forming the Jury; and although the members of the Jury are not legalistically trained - every right minded human do have common sense of justice, of what is right and wrong; quirks are removed during jury selection.
In any case, the Judge is present to guide the Jury in the perimeters of their deliberation of evidences presented by both the Prosecution and the Defense; and if a verdict is arrived at against all acceptable reasons - it is the duty of the judge to investigate and call for a retrial.
Quick dispensation is no justice, neither is delayed justice.
Worst is when a system is subject to the control of a Strong Man - and everyone is held to ransom by the threat of trial in a system controlled by ONE Man.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
....Do you seriously think that the 700 billion bailout will turn the US economy around - by this amount alone ?
Big countries are like small countries - economic fundamentals need to be managed at the right time and with the right dose of direct or indirect governmental supervision.
Many reviews have already stated that the present situation in the USA is due to the complete removal of regulations that allowed the Financial System to run amok by creating all kinds of financial programs.
The present US Government was at fault for the false assumption that pump priming home ownership program alone will help to boost the US economy, without any consideration that proper long term job permanence is required to support the repaymemnt to the freely available loans.
Towards this end, the US Government had removed regulations and allowed banks to offer loans to all and sundry - which the banks eagerly accepted to meet bottom line performance demands without considering the recoverable status of the loans.
As matters stand, the 700 billion bailout was not sufficient, as the recent concluded studies made by the US Congress stated that another 500 billion is required; while Obama and his new team has stated that structural changes will need to be made to the way the USA is being "managed".
.....Well, according to Bloomberg recently, the $7.2 trillion has already been spent. More recent estimates range at around $8.5 trillion to the corporate-financial sector. Try to understand this, you cant fix a problem that is the result of debt induced by monopolised money creation with more money creation. Thats like trying to fix corruption with more corruption. The Fed is a private corporation that has a monopoly of money creation over the US. When it loans money (which it created out of air) to banks, who in turn loans it to consumers (I mean human beings), the debt includes the principle (money created out of nothing) and the interest (money which doesnt exist). In the long run, it is clear that the system is only sustained by more money being created, which is why inflation is a constant. And when one component of this system goes bankrupt (an event built into this system of fiat money), the rest is history. The system has to keep pumping out money to cover up the existing debt and in the process, creates more debt. Crazy? Well, thats called our beautiful fractional reserve banking system which serves to consolidate power and wealth in the hands of a small elite.
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news from WSJ :
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Was your example so simple when it was inconclusive in the statement made ?Now that you have clarified your statement that a "big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout" - you have at least been encouraged to give a clearer explanation to what was stuck in your mind, which you seem to be unable to express in simple ways, and resulted in your thoughts being skewed by your inconclusive statement.
Not so clever to blame others for skewing an incomprehensible simple statement.
Do you seriously think that the 700 billion bailout will turn the US economy around - by this amount alone ?
Big countries are like small countries - economic fundamentals need to be managed at the right time and with the right dose of direct or indirect governmental supervision.
Many reviews have already stated that the present situation in the USA is due to the complete removal of regulations that allowed the Financial System to run amok by creating all kinds of financial programs.
The present US Government was at fault for the false assumption that pump priming home ownership program alone will help to boost the US economy, without any consideration that proper long term job permanence is required to support the repaymemnt to the freely available loans.
Towards this end, the US Government had removed regulations and allowed banks to offer loans to all and sundry - which the banks eagerly accepted to meet bottom line performance demands without considering the recoverable status of the loans.
As matters stand, the 700 billion bailout was not sufficient, as the recent concluded studies made by the US Congress stated that another 500 billion is required; while Obama and his new team has stated that structural changes will need to be made to the way the USA is being "managed".
Big country alone may not necessarily be "financially" powerful - if by big country you will mean population size or even in terms of territorial square kilometers.
For the USA, her territorial or population size has nothing to do with her wealth, as her wealth is due largely to her political system and the acceptane of a political ideology by both major political parties that support the liberties of the individual.
In terms of population size, the USA is smaller than China; and in terms of territorial size, the USA is smaller than Russia.
Yet it has more then trillions of dollar in private wealth within the USA - even as the country and the government is deep in debt.
Can Singapore be realistically compared to any country given the politial ideology that shackle Singaporeans ?
dude.... I did not say it will turn it around, like i did not say it can oppose the fall of gravity.... why why why????
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Is "Justice" less important than "Economics" ?
Is one's "societal responsibilities" less important than "Economics" ?
Your views reflect the lack of knowledge of a Judiciary System, and your adopted position is due largely to your own experience in a local system that has been promoted by the present government's preference of dispensing speedy justice for both economic and political reasons.
In a Jury System - there are checks and balances to prevent the kinds of faults that you claimed, and which is promoted by those government against such a system.
Before the Jury retire to consider their decision of a verdict, the Judge is in the Court to guide the Jury in the deliberations of the evidences presented by both sides in a trial.
The Judge is trained to determine if a mistrial has occurred, or if a verdict is flawed due to some reasons. Ultimately, the Prosecution can appeal to a Higher Court for retrial. Instances of retrial has occurred.
Is your arguments from watching too much serial movies ?
Did you not mention in your opening statement that it was not economical to isolate the jury from their surrounding ?
Skewed judgements have been known to be aborted, and mistrial can be ruled, while the appeal process is available to both the prosecutors and the defense counsels.
Everyone is accountable for their actions, and trial by jury is a trial by one's peers who share common societal experiences, while trial by the Judiciary has clearly shown that the Judiciary is far removed from society, and can just as easily be controlled and manipulated by the State to serve their own agenda.
Without an independent Judiciary, the citizen has no avenue for fair justice.
In such a circumstance, what accountability are you referring to ?
Why will you depend on wiki to find out how the judiciary system in Singapore works ?
Why do you not use google and find out how the previous Solicitor-General of Singapore actually give you FIRST HAND ACCOUNT of how the Singapore Judiciary ACTUALLY WORK ?
It will benefit you if you try to read The Politics of Judicial Institutions in Singapore without any blinkers or shades that filter out the light.
how the fuck the previous system works, i don't care. now is the judge system now, and it has more pros than cons than jury system. no system is perfect, like you said,
US use jury system does not mean it is perfect. try reading books that highlight the deficiencies of the jury system.
No matter how well the judge guide the jury, they are still not proffessional and not as accountable as the judge. the defendent can appeal, and this of course shows lack of trust of the citizens in the jury system, because they think that if they try again, things will turn out differently this time. But the appeal system is not easy, you can research that if you want ===>accountability
if using the jury system is on par, or not more efficient than the judge system, than why should the economy suffer more??? why why why?? ==> economics
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Originally posted by skythewood:
dude.... I did not say it will turn it around, like i did not say it can oppose the fall of gravity.... why why why????
why why why ????Why should you be asking this ?
Did you not state the following in your last reply which I responded ?
"big country can affect the economy by getting a 700 billion bailout."
If you did not mean "economic turn around" with the words "can affect the economy" - what possibly do you mean when you also mentioned that the economy had received 700 billion bailout ?
So what did you intend to say which you did not say what you had wanted to, and that remained locked in your mind ?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
how the fuck the previous system works, i don't care. now is the judge system now, and it has more pros than cons than jury system. no system is perfect, like you said,
US use jury system does not mean it is perfect. try reading books that highlight the deficiencies of the jury system.
No matter how well the judge guide the jury, they are still not proffessional and not as accountable as the judge. the defendent can appeal, and this of course shows lack of trust of the citizens in the jury system, because they think that if they try again, things will turn out differently this time. But the appeal system is not easy, you can research that if you want ===>accountability
if using the jury system is on par, or not more efficient than the judge system, than why should the economy suffer more??? why why why?? ==> economics
If you do not care how the previous Jury system worked in Singapore - is there any point in discussing this further ?No one said that the jury are legal professionals, and who said that they are not as accountable for the verdicts ?
The fact that the defendant has been given a right of appeal does not mean that the Jury System is flawed, if that is the case are you suggesting that Trial by a Single Judge is similarly flawed as the defendant is also given similar rights to Appeal ?
How many persons form the jury in any trial ?
Can these few persons in a population of 4.5 million residents affect the economy ?
If the tenure of the judges are not contracturally renewable and whose appointment is not subjected to the whims and manipulation of ONE Man or a Single Political Party, it can be conceded to be considerably more efficient in a country run on the industrial or commercial productivity standards.