Anwar claims more than 31 MPs will cross over to Pakatan
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Originally posted by redDUST:
pls elaborate....i no understand this. thx.
no stand, seat down lor. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
no stand, seat down lor.let me try again...
pls elaborate, i no aboveseat this. thx.
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Sometimes I wonder if Anwar really has his cards or he just playing liar's poker.
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i guess only time will tell.i also dun know. malaysian politicians too `shat' for singaporeans.
hypothetically, if they come here and run for election, the greenhorn paps nubes will be slaughtered without them even knowing.
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Whatever it is.. we will still need a good party. Pakatan Rakyat is too fragile given the present scenario.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Whatever it is.. we will still need a good party. Pakatan Rakyat is too fragile given the present scenario.
to have a good party, you need lots of beer and lots of pretty girls... the rest of the stuff kind of settle itself if you manage this two
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Originally posted by skythewood:
to have a good party, you need lots of beer and lots of pretty girls... the rest of the stuff kind of settle itself if you manage this two
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Originally posted by redDUST:
pls elaborate....i no understand this. thx.
mousedeer are known to be cunning and able to squirm and scheme their way out of everything -
Abdullah is a very nice person - with qualities many lack - humility, gentlemanly, real concern for the country and its people and a genuinely good leader - anyone whom has met him in person would know this - he is not incompetent, he just lacks full control over every faction in his own party. You can't win a fight against corruption, etc. on your own - no matter how high up you are - because you still need the backing of your party
Problem is, most Malaysians seem to not understand that - insisting on instant gratification without thinking about whether the means to such ends would be justifiable and if so whether it would be feasible. For example, denouncing the administration for not doing enough to weed out corruption by themselves keep feeding the corrupt practices - bribing corrupt officers or officials (to be fair, there are those who were arrested for attempted bribery) and then telling the government that its not doing enough. There is only so much the government can do, the rest is up to the people themselves, if the people stop feeding the corrupt beasts, then these practices would obviously stop. If you have committed an offence for example speeding above the speed limit, then just pay the fine - it may cost more but you are doing your part to weed out corruption in the country - then you can justify your complaints - same goes for businesses
The opposition - starting to lose confidence in them - just look at the states they are governing - take for example The Right Honourable Mr Lim Guan Eng of Penang - all he seems to ever want to do after the GE is just talk and talk and talk and grace the pages of newspapers blaming the administration of Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon - don't see him doing anything much at all besides that. What has he in plans to increase and more importantly retain investments for the state? What is he going to do about the ridiculous skyrocketing (pardon the pun - DAP's logo is a rocket) property prices in the state of late (does he know that most people in his own state can't afford to buy houses or even apartments in their own home state) - can you imagine when KL based developers flooding the state with incredibly high end developments at prices locals (most Malaysians included) cannot afford? Most developments now cost upwards of RM 1 mil even for condominiums, there seems to be shortage for even RM 300,000 apartments - something ordinary Malaysian can actually afford. So many promises made, what is actually being done? I don't expect instant rectification or gratification, but at least show us what you intend to do - that would suffice until you start implementation
What's more? Moving in to Rumah Tetamu (the chief minister of Penang's official residence along Macalister Road, the name Rumah Tetamu means 'Guest House') when he said he did not want to initially. So the police did advice him to move in to the official residence on security basis but previous CMs had always lived in their own houses, despite security concerns. He could just inform the State Financial Officer and the State Assembly that he does not intend to take the allowance given to him in place of living in the official residence, thereby saving taxpayers' money (as he advocates)
In all, the government needs to get its house in order and the opposition needs to its own house in order too. And to Tian Chua, defecting MPs are not democratic change of government. In a Westminster parliamentary system, you vote for the party not the individual
Hypothetically, if Anwar succeeds, he needs to dissolve parliament immediately and hold fresh elections to determine the will of the people or he would be seen as nothing but a power-crazed politician hell bent on becoming PM. For now, he has the benefit of the doubt. And to add a note, even if the oppostition does form government, they still have to face the Senate which is controlled by BN with only 10 Senators from Pakatan (2 from each of the 5 states they control - that is, if the BN Senators' terms have expired since the election, otherwise they would have 2 Senators from Kelantan only) - and they would definitely exercise their veto powers in the Senate to shoot down bills from the lower House of Representatives - so his reforms might not even work out that fast - which means the Malaysian public would then say the same thing about his government
But for Abdullah, he still has the peoples' mandate to govern - afterall, a simple majority is still a majority government. The people have given BN the privilege to govern, so the opposition by right should just wait till the next GE for all this hoo haa of theirs and prove that they can govern the 5 states first - and in the meantime adhere to the will of the people which was proclaimed through the ballot box. The government should get on with its work of governing -
Dr. Mahathir has returned to UMNO, end of the road for Mr. Anwar... his mentor has returned to thwart his plans... again!
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Originally posted by novelltie:
Dr. Mahathir has returned to UMNO, end of the road for Mr. Anwar... his mentor has returned to thwart his plans... again!
What a loser, cannot fight with anwar must call back mahathir, what are the UMNO leaders doing, cannot solve problem one meh?? seibei good for nothing.Anwar is not afraid of Mahathir, he is ready for him.
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abdullah is a failure...
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Originally posted by angel7030:
What a loser, cannot fight with anwar must call back mahathir, what are the UMNO leaders doing, cannot solve problem one meh?? seibei good for nothing.Anwar is not afraid of Mahathir, he is ready for him.
i agree that Anwar is not afraid of Dr. Mahathir but the rest of UMNO is. they invited Dr. Mahathir back not to challenge Anwar head on but to crush the unrest within the party. the members inside UMNO will still respect Dr. Mahathir and if he wants to return to power as PM, the possibility is higher than Anwar. why? cos' the members of UMNO still wants to be the governing body of Malaysia.if Anwar becomes PM, a lot of reshuffling is expected and some ministers know that they will lose their posts once Anwar steps in. but if it's Dr. Mahathir, they calculate the possibility of them losing their post is slimmer so why not support Dr. Mahathir instead? their party is still in power and they are still in riches but once opposition takes over, they lose EVERYTHING.
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Abdullah n Najib just swapped port folios. lol
Now Abdullah is Minister of Defence.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Abdullah n Najib just swapped port folios. lol
Now Abdullah is Minister of Defence.
huh? for real?
edited: alright, it is for real. More news here: Abdullah, Najib swap portfolios
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Originally posted by rainee:
handling over portfolios means nothing yet. Abdullah is still prime minister and Najib, the deputy prime minister... it's just for show actually. Dr. Mahathir, Abdullah and Anwar will be fighting for power now. -
Originally posted by novelltie:
handling over portfolios means nothing yet. Abdullah is still prime minister and Najib, the deputy prime minister... it's just for show actually. Dr. Mahathir or Anwar will be fighting for power now.But why he swapped the portfolios with Najib?
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Originally posted by novelltie:
i agree that Anwar is not afraid of Dr. Mahathir but the rest of UMNO is. they invited Dr. Mahathir back not to challenge Anwar head on but to crush the unrest within the party. the members inside UMNO will still respect Dr. Mahathir and if he wants to return to power as PM, the possibility is higher than Anwar. why? cos' the members of UMNO still wants to be the governing body of Malaysia.if Anwar becomes PM, a lot of reshuffling is expected and some ministers know that they will lose their posts once Anwar steps in. but if it's Dr. Mahathir, they calculate the possibility of them losing their post is slimmer so why not support Dr. Mahathir instead? their party is still in power and they are still in riches but once opposition takes over, they lose EVERYTHING.
After all the unrest, the UMNO leaders inside the party had tested the beauty and power of unrest they can achieve, during Mahathir rules, they had not test it because Dr. Mah is a smart person who outcast any sign of unrest leader into prison, so all were afraid of him, but today, they found that it ok to unrest and deflect afterall. We dun hv to be afraid of a PM, and we dun loose out even if you go against UMNO. And by calling Mahathir back show sign of lame leader leading it, now the another problem will rise, what will the next person who wanted to be PM, he may deflect, after he found that he stand a little chance of becoming PM with mahathir and Badawi around. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
After all the unrest, the UMNO leaders inside the party had tested the beauty and power of unrest they can achieve, during Mahathir rules, they had not test it because Dr. Mah is a smart person who outcast any sign of unrest leader into prison, so all were afraid of him, but today, they found that it ok to unrest and deflect afterall. We dun hv to be afraid of a PM, and we dun loose out even if you go against UMNO. And by calling Mahathir back show sign of lame leader leading it, now the another problem will rise, what will the next person who wanted to be PM, he may deflect, after he found that he stand a little chance of becoming PM with mahathir and Badawi around.
in my personal opinion; there are 3 main factions in this power struggle.- Anwar and his opposition party
- Abdullah and Najib with their minions
- Dr. Mahathir and those UMNO members not happy with Abdullah and Najib.
Abdullah did not call Dr. Mahathir back. it was those that was unhappy with Abdullah and Najib yet they also know if Anwar comes to power, they will lose their power. what is the best course of action? find a true leader who has survive the test of time, Dr. Mahathir. now we have a "love" triangle.
Anwar VS Abdullah and Najib (Apprentice VS Apprentice)
Abdullah and Najib VS Dr. Mahathir (Apprentice VS Master)
Dr. Mahathir VS Anwar (Master VS Apprentice)
like Starwars Jedi Master VS Jedi Knights... LOL!
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Originally posted by Fonseti:
Abdullah is a very nice person - with qualities many lack - humility, gentlemanly, real concern for the country and its people and a genuinely good leader - anyone whom has met him in person would know this - he is not incompetent, he just lacks full control over every faction in his own party. You can't win a fight against corruption, etc. on your own - no matter how high up you are - because you still need the backing of your party
Problem is, most Malaysians seem to not understand that - insisting on instant gratification without thinking about whether the means to such ends would be justifiable and if so whether it would be feasible. For example, denouncing the administration for not doing enough to weed out corruption by themselves keep feeding the corrupt practices - bribing corrupt officers or officials (to be fair, there are those who were arrested for attempted bribery) and then telling the government that its not doing enough. There is only so much the government can do, the rest is up to the people themselves, if the people stop feeding the corrupt beasts, then these practices would obviously stop. If you have committed an offence for example speeding above the speed limit, then just pay the fine - it may cost more but you are doing your part to weed out corruption in the country - then you can justify your complaints - same goes for businesses
The opposition - starting to lose confidence in them - just look at the states they are governing - take for example The Right Honourable Mr Lim Guan Eng of Penang - all he seems to ever want to do after the GE is just talk and talk and talk and grace the pages of newspapers blaming the administration of Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon - don't see him doing anything much at all besides that. What has he in plans to increase and more importantly retain investments for the state? What is he going to do about the ridiculous skyrocketing (pardon the pun - DAP's logo is a rocket) property prices in the state of late (does he know that most people in his own state can't afford to buy houses or even apartments in their own home state) - can you imagine when KL based developers flooding the state with incredibly high end developments at prices locals (most Malaysians included) cannot afford? Most developments now cost upwards of RM 1 mil even for condominiums, there seems to be shortage for even RM 300,000 apartments - something ordinary Malaysian can actually afford. So many promises made, what is actually being done? I don't expect instant rectification or gratification, but at least show us what you intend to do - that would suffice until you start implementation
What's more? Moving in to Rumah Tetamu (the chief minister of Penang's official residence along Macalister Road, the name Rumah Tetamu means 'Guest House') when he said he did not want to initially. So the police did advice him to move in to the official residence on security basis but previous CMs had always lived in their own houses, despite security concerns. He could just inform the State Financial Officer and the State Assembly that he does not intend to take the allowance given to him in place of living in the official residence, thereby saving taxpayers' money (as he advocates)
In all, the government needs to get its house in order and the opposition needs to its own house in order too. And to Tian Chua, defecting MPs are not democratic change of government. In a Westminster parliamentary system, you vote for the party not the individual
Hypothetically, if Anwar succeeds, he needs to dissolve parliament immediately and hold fresh elections to determine the will of the people or he would be seen as nothing but a power-crazed politician hell bent on becoming PM. For now, he has the benefit of the doubt. And to add a note, even if the oppostition does form government, they still have to face the Senate which is controlled by BN with only 10 Senators from Pakatan (2 from each of the 5 states they control - that is, if the BN Senators' terms have expired since the election, otherwise they would have 2 Senators from Kelantan only) - and they would definitely exercise their veto powers in the Senate to shoot down bills from the lower House of Representatives - so his reforms might not even work out that fast - which means the Malaysian public would then say the same thing about his government
But for Abdullah, he still has the peoples' mandate to govern - afterall, a simple majority is still a majority government. The people have given BN the privilege to govern, so the opposition by right should just wait till the next GE for all this hoo haa of theirs and prove that they can govern the 5 states first - and in the meantime adhere to the will of the people which was proclaimed through the ballot box. The government should get on with its work of governingexteriorly, badawi seems a `softie', nice guy. however, i think he has grit as well.
that said, he needs to take responsibility for the factious umno while under his leadership. he has no firm grip on his own party.
and the corruption that is still rampant despite him saying that he will crack down on it.
the ability to execute seems to be lacking on his part. the idea is good.
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Originally posted by novelltie:
in my personal opinion; there are 3 main factions in this power struggle.- Anwar and his opposition party
- Abdullah and Najib with their minions
- Dr. Mahathir and those UMNO members not happy with Abdullah and Najib.
Abdullah did not call Dr. Mahathir back. it was those that was unhappy with Abdullah and Najib yet they also know if Anwar comes to power, they will lose their power. what is the best course of action? find a true leader who has survive the test of time, Dr. Mahathir. now we have a "love" triangle.
Anwar VS Abdullah and Najib (Apprentice VS Apprentice)
Abdullah and Najib VS Dr. Mahathir (Apprentice VS Master)
Dr. Mahathir VS Anwar (Master VS Apprentice)
like Starwars Jedi Master VS Jedi Knights... LOL!
Dr, Mahathir will not be a challenger, he will just be a consultant to the UMNO party, and he needs a puppet head to cover himself if anything happen, the ineffectiveness of Abdullah and Najib gives him the dignity and proudness in comparison. He will raise another person into the picture to act on his behalf, and the whole malaysia politics will go into further chaos.What Dr Mahathir had in his power to do thing depend on one race, the chinese businessmen, the chinese are typical business peoples who want a peaceful and prosperous life, Mathathir had provided them this scene for many years, and they jolly sponsor Mahathir in whatever way with $$$.., the return of Mahathir will delight the chinese that they will sponsor and support him again with $$$..and Malaysia is not different from other nation, with $$$, things get done easier and faster.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
exteriorly, badawi seems a `softie', nice guy. however, i think he has grit as well.
that said, he needs to take responsibility for the factious umno while under his leadership. he has no firm grip on his own party.
and the corruption that is still rampant despite him saying that he will crack down on it.
the ability to execute seems to be lacking on his part. the idea is good.
Yes, he's got grit and quite frankly, he's got to bite back now - against the factions in his party, corrupt officials and solidify his grip until the transition to his deputy
About him not having a firm grip on his party - there is a need to understand Abdullah's history in the party - he was once dropped from Mahathir's cabinet - as Defence Minister - and was sent into political oblivion but he remained steadfast in the party and eventually was made Foreign Minister and then Deputy PM. You can see why - if you've been spending much time in the political wilderness, it would be difficult to gain control over every faction in the party
To many Singaporeans, at least from the posts in this forum, it seems Anwar is the answer - but to some Malaysians, including those whom have voted for the opposition, Anwar is given the benefit of the doubt. His Pakatan state governments - have not shown much despite all they have promised to do for the electorate right after the elections - and some cracks are beginning to show. For example, DAP itself is against defections and party hopping - so if they outwardly show support for such acts then it would only show the electorate that they are only interested in gaining power and have no will in upholding their party principles and ideologies. Already with the Avril Lavigne concert issue the DAP have shown just how much they are not willing to oppose their own coalition member and uphold their own party ideology - there is a deafening silence on their part, and sadly so too
Also, to Singaporeans (now, speaking here without prejudice and do take this as a mere little educational bits about Malaysia's political system) - the Malaysian political system is more complex than yours - its not as simple as one person vs another or one party vs another. You need also to understand that each State in the Federation has its own say too when it comes to the federation - the PM (and by extention the Federal Government) cannot simply do what he likes - for example, there are certain things the federal government can't do without state consent, etc. and Sabah and Sarawak has special privileges accorded to them. The States can be quite a thorn in the side for the Federal Government too (also to Singaporeans - the State Governments can take the Federal Government to court and the same goes for the Federal Government against the states - and has been done before). And don't forget the Council of Rulers too - because afterall, in the end to put everything in context of a constitutional monarchy, it is His Majesty's Government and we are all His Majesty's subjects
Abdullah has good ideas, agreed and again concurring with the fact that there is an inability to execute the ideas. But again, it would be even more difficult to execute if there is a looming threat to your political survival and that of your party. Anwar should just wait for the next GE, then if his party (or coalition that is Pakatan) does get the votes, it would show that he and his party has the mandate from the people - right now he should just let Abdullah do his job and prove to the electorate that Pakatan can govern by governing the 5 states they currently hold successfully. Also, he should just do his job by proving that they can effectively act as check and balances in Parliament - walking out of the House on his first day as opposition leader is not a way to show that - by walking out you waive your right to have your say in the House - so how is that going to help the people in checking and balancing the government bench?
The win for Pakatan in the GE is beginning to seem in the eyes of some as a protest vote gone wrong - until now they have yet even a little to prove their ability govern their newly won states
And speaking of democratically changing governments - how can one claim to be a democrat when one is the 'de facto leader' of one's party - not elected but self proclaimed? But people don't care about that it would seem. If he believes in what he preaches, then Anwar should seriously stop this and wait for the next GE. Did not return to Malaysia for all this nonsense!
As for Abdullah, he should now focus on his job and get thing going with running the country - most important thing now is the economy and the judicial reforms - get these two on track and everything else would fall into place. His place is history has been secured as the PM who brought more such freedom and flexibility to the country (those in the NGOs and opposition who keep clamouring for more should keep this in mind because previously could they have even be doing all these that they are able to do now?)
A lot of Malaysians are tired of this. Just want the government to start governing properly and the opposition to start respecting the GE results - its that simple -
The next few days or few weeks will be interesting to watch.....
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That malaysia has politicians with more complex characters doesn't mean that it's system is more complex than Singapore's. -
well, further cracks in barisan....sabah's SAPP has pulled out of the coalition.
badawi's getting the answer asked of anwar, without anwar giving a direct answer (well, at least partially)
i certainly think more is to come....