proud to be born a Singaporean
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
yes..4-5 bucks from each of us..but that's juz us..we're the taxpayers in citizen status..u forget the companies and firms that exists in singapore..?they too pay tax..and they pay much much more than all of us...does that justify the amount of 4-5bucks..?the companies maybe be paying 400-500 or 4,000-5,000 or 40,000-50,000 or even 400,000-500,000..but it's worth it for that amount...coz this government keeps the investment and environment stable for the company to be here..in a way they are paying for a more stable location for their investment..and the laws here are fair and transparent for these companies..
in some other countries they have to pay a big majority of their profits to the government and the percentage of this tax varies according to the greed of the officials...if u're a businessman...u'll start thinking how to keep ur money safe...Singapore is proudly one of the better places in the world right now..and our current government has made it that way..people like u and mi have made it that way..no one is left out..do our part as a citizen to uphold the environment that we're in and we're already well on the way to becoming even better every year...
the reason y u're not paying $50 bucks a year is because GST is to be based on ur spending volume..the more u're able to spend the more the GST amount..this is a fair system in the world..i hope u know y the GST is not standard amount..~
take cigerette and alcohol as an example, 10$ per pack,80% for the tax, go to the government, it's not the malboro company paying the tax, it's every single citizen paying the tax, because the the money company got come from each citizen, how many people in singapore about 4,000,000, how many midium size, and large sized company in singapore, i think it's about thousand, maybe 2000, so how is paying the tax, still the citizen. true?
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
That's a flawed argument, my fren. Low cost doesn't mean supreme justification. The whole principle of governing for patriotism and service to the common folks is entirely missed here.i understand u..together with what eagle said about corruption..this is a small country with its own rules and with very limited amount of resources..i suppose how the government justifies the salaries to our governors is "a measure to prevent a consequence"...LKY's concern is corruption and bribery..if i'm to give u a choice between preventing a problem and solving a problem..which will u prefer..?
the choice here is to take a small measure to prevent corruption..and the "principle of governing for patriotism and service to the common folks" takes on the rest of the job..no one will ever think that they have too much money..and this goes to our governors too..but i believe the high salaries that they are taking comes as a perk to them..and it's the ultimate good of the country that they are concerned about..
we might have left out a part of this topic as u have mentioned..but i'm certain that it hasn't been missed by the people who governs Singapore...say..if u are patriotic...and u want to serve the nation..but they give such high salaries..would u push it away?or would u do even more to serve as ur utmost best..?if u love this country..ur answer should be obvious...
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there's a difference between pegging your high salary to the top earners... And pegging your high salary to a multiple for the average bottom earners... I prefer the later...
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Originally posted by skythewood:
strangely, even though each us citizen pay less for their president, the tax rate in US is way higher.
Well..i can onli say it's a matter of rules and structure in the different countries..
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US need the money to wage a war. the war was waged so the president can win re election.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Same same mah...
Even though we pay the highest salaries in the world to our government, we are not the least corrupt nation (although we are 4th)
i had a look at the charts for the World Audit Corruption..and if u have a look at the countries at the top sections are those countries that are very independent in the sense of their resources and very very big countries...we happened to be the onli one that's so intensely small in size and lack of resources..
gives mi the feel that Singapore, though it's such a small country, stands out as a big name in the midst of these big countries..something that i am very very proud of..
note: Taiwan is the closest country that is similar to us and it's at 26th..think again...
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Originally posted by rokkie:
take cigerette and alcohol as an example, 10$ per pack,80% for the tax, go to the government, it's not the malboro company paying the tax, it's every single citizen paying the tax, because the the money company got come from each citizen, how many people in singapore about 4,000,000, how many midium size, and large sized company in singapore, i think it's about thousand, maybe 2000, so how is paying the tax, still the citizen. true?
it's a different story all together..in the side that u're mentioning..we'll have to take COE and ERP into considerations..but then again..the government didn't impose these taxes for the reason of collecting more taxes..there is a reason behind each policy..including COE and ERP...
Tax on Alcohol: to limit the amount of moving alcohol in the country and increase the price of alcohol, thus discouraging, not banning, the intake of alcohol by its citizens. I'm sure u agree that allowing unlimited amount of moving alcohol in the country comes with its price, and Singapore focuses on social well being and law & order. thus banning is not an option, we even tax on our self brewed beers (Tiger). This is the reason for imposing tax on all alcohol.
Tax on ciggies: this theory is similar to the tax on alcohol. if we look at japan, smoking is illegal in the open air, if u smoke out in the open, it's illegal. you need to go and look for one of those smoking cabins or carriages they have. many would have said that the reason y Singapore would not ban ciggies because the tax that it receives from the sale of it..but if we look at the economic sense..banning ciggies would mean more would bring in ciggies with underhand methods..thus increasing the crime rate unnecessarily. imposing tax and fines is a method that the government have chosen to use in this situation. Reducing intake by its citizens (health) and reducing crimes. Puzzle solved?
i shall not touch on ERP and COE..unless someone asks for it..
the tax marlboro is paying to the government is a separate calculation from the tax u're paying for ur ciggies everytime u buy a pack..the tax that marlboro pays depend on the profits it makes apart from the taxes that the government imposed...
there's something that people might leave out..that's if marlboro is paying taxes to the government as well..it's status?as a legimate company in Singapore..but it's the importers paying these taxes..to have a low crime and stable economy in Singapore..it affects them..think..if crime rate were high and economy is unstable..would u buy a Singapore cigarette or would u buy contraband ones..?it affects these companies as well...
u, mi, and importers of marlboro, dunhill, texas 5, all have a role to play in this country..we're still contributing as a citizen...4-5bucks..when was the last mac u ate without looking at the cash...?
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Originally posted by eagle:
there’s a difference between pegging your high salary to the top earners… And pegging your high salary to a multiple for the average bottom earners… I prefer the later…
yup..but if the ministers fetch salaries juz as much as ur everyday manager..would u somehow feel safe..?
our ministers don't earn that much if u peg it to the high earners..i drive pass all the private houses, see all the cars and i know the high earners are making much more..
juz a question to u...if u are making 1 mil a year..and ur prime minister makes onli 200k a year..would u feel like u can make the country better than he can...?sometimes money means status too..
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Erm, I stated multiple
there’s a difference between pegging your high salary to the top earners… And pegging your high salary to a multiple for the average bottom earners… I prefer the later…
Doesn't mean you have to drop the PM's salary. It just means that raising the salary because the salaries of the top earners increased with no mention or relation at all to the bottom earners.... is not really logical...
The only thing is I typed a wrong word... multiple of... didn't see it just now cuz I typed in from wifi on hp :D
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
yup..but if the ministers fetch salaries juz as much as ur everyday manager..would u somehow feel safe..?
our ministers don't earn that much if u peg it to the high earners..i drive pass all the private houses, see all the cars and i know the high earners are making much more..
juz a question to u...if u are making 1 mil a year..and ur prime minister makes onli 200k a year..would u feel like u can make the country better than he can...?sometimes money means status too..
To say the truth, i feel that the politicians are out there to make money, and in ns term, to "squeeze" the common peoples... where else could they get enough money to pay themselves? $4-5 / year... that sum is highly doubtful.. ITs like saying i have to feed the rapist 10 virgins a year to prevent him from casuing harm to the society, instead of locking the rapist for good..
Alcohol tax and cigratte tax dun say la.. cos everycountry has them and it is needed to cover their health care subsidies...
We are talking about 7% GST here, 7% on everyting u spend, rice, sauce, salt, vinegar... Assuming I alone spend $500/mth on my living expenses, its $35 to the coffers, and we have not included various taxes like erp as well.There are things that singapore should be proud of, like our airports airlines, level of health care.... These are top quality stuffs that I am proud of.
142 in press freedom... can I be proud of that as well? -
Originally posted by eagle:
Erm, I stated multiple
Doesn't mean you have to drop the PM's salary. It just means that raising the salary because the salaries of the top earners increased with no mention or relation at all to the bottom earners.... is not really logical...
The only thing is I typed a wrong word... multiple of... didn't see it just now cuz I typed in from wifi on hp :D
i think this one realli depends..when u're working in a company..u push the company's performance up..or u're the VP..should ur salary increase with the rest of the board or onli when ur common staff gets a pay rise..?and also including inflation etc..this one is a very very vast topic..but i think the example i give should be a good one..~
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Originally posted by whiskers:
To say the truth, i feel that the politicians are out there to make money, and in ns term, to "squeeze" the common peoples... where else could they get enough money to pay themselves? $4-5 / year... that sum is highly doubtful.. ITs like saying i have to feed the rapist 10 virgins a year to prevent him from casuing harm to the society, instead of locking the rapist for good..
Alcohol tax and cigratte tax dun say la.. cos everycountry has them and it is needed to cover their health care subsidies...
We are talking about 7% GST here, 7% on everyting u spend, rice, sauce, salt, vinegar... Assuming I alone spend $500/mth on my living expenses, its $35 to the coffers, and we have not included various taxes like erp as well.There are things that singapore should be proud of, like our airports airlines, level of health care.... These are top quality stuffs that I am proud of.
142 in press freedom... can I be proud of that as well?lolz...cannot la u...lucky the government isn't u...u can't look at all things this way ma...when an adult steals or do something wrong, he gets canned by a pro with a freaking "bamboo" and gets jailed for who knows how long...so we're suppose to treat a primary sch kid who, too, did something wrong..in the same way..?canning and jail..?
O.o"...
if they are realli out there to make money..u think they will feel at ease with juz that few hundred thousand..?they would be easily bribable...and corruption will be crazily easy..but the onli thing that stops these from happening is the patriotism, sense of responsibility, and integrity in them..they are there to lead the country..the salaries come as a perk..if u look at private sectors..they could have made much much more...have u seen private sectors' paychecks..?like i said..it's a measure that the government has taken to reduce corruption..juz like in NS..the camp has taken many measures in order not to let weapons leak out of camp illegally...but is it impossible to smuggle the weapons out of camp..?nope it's not..but what kept u from smuggling them out of camp..?integrity, sense of responsibility, sense of righteousness, fear of consequences, etc. this is a question that onli u can answer for urself..and every man answers for himself...
u got to have at least some pinch of faith for our governors since they are doing a good job so far..and i believe that the World Audit Corruption is based on the number of corruption cases so far..and we're still ranked 4th..it's seriously not bad at all...
if they realli wanna squeeze u..the whole nation would have know it by now..7% gst is alright liao..seriously...it's undeniably on the average...~and ur ERP charges goes also into all the construction works to widen roads and improving the transport systems etc..and if u haven't notice..the roads that have no ERP or alternative roads are being expanded..the government don't have the time to say each detail..it's all up to us to decide for ourselves..but ultimately it's ur choice to see it..~i see what the government is giving..u see what it is taking..i'm happy...u're angry...so..which one do u wan to be..?happy or angry..?
btw: with all the taxes and contribution made by Singaporeans from 40 plus years ago till now..we've gone through from a kampong to this incredible state in juz 40 plus years..would u have choose otherwise..?if u did..would u have the liberty of having a com at the comfort of ur own home..?pay bills at ur axs machines..?ezlink card?electronic singpass..?choose again...~
i believe there is a reason behind the freedom of press..and MM Lee has given his clear explanation throughout his political life...when he was young..and even now he is holding the same explanation..but Singapore is liberating..have a read on the topics and keypoints of the 2008 national rally..~ :)
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
i think this one realli depends..when u're working in a company..u push the company's performance up..or u're the VP..should ur salary increase with the rest of the board or onli when ur common staff gets a pay rise..?and also including inflation etc..this one is a very very vast topic..but i think the example i give should be a good one..~
Does your example show u supporting Singapore being run like a company, with common folks like you and me being treated like employees?
To me, employees have less right (depending on the position and seniority) in the company than citizens (each and every citizen should have equal right) has in a country..
And your example is not really valid. It's not about the VP getting the salary rise along with the rest of the board. This is only similar to the PM getting the salary rise along with the rest of the ministers, which isn't what I'm driving at.
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
lolz...cannot la u...lucky the government isn't u...u can't look at all things this way ma...when an adult steals or do something wrong, he gets canned by a pro with a freaking "bamboo" and gets jailed for who knows how long...so we're suppose to treat a primary sch kid who, too, did something wrong..in the same way..?canning and jail..?
O.o"...
if they are realli out there to make money..u think they will feel at ease with juz that few hundred thousand..?they would be easily bribable...and corruption will be crazily easy..but the onli thing that stops these from happening is the patriotism, sense of responsibility, and integrity in them..they are there to lead the country..the salaries come as a perk..if u look at private sectors..they could have made much much more...have u seen private sectors' paychecks..?like i said..it's a measure that the government has taken to reduce corruption..juz like in NS..the camp has taken many measures in order not to let weapons leak out of camp illegally...but is it impossible to smuggle the weapons out of camp..?nope it's not..but what kept u from smuggling them out of camp..?integrity, sense of responsibility, sense of righteousness, fear of consequences, etc. this is a question that onli u can answer for urself..and every man answers for himself...
u got to have at least some pinch of faith for our governors since they are doing a good job so far..and i believe that the World Audit Corruption is based on the number of corruption cases so far..and we're still ranked 4th..it's seriously not bad at all...
if they realli wanna squeeze u..the whole nation would have know it by now..7% gst is alright liao..seriously...it's undeniably on the average...~and ur ERP charges goes also into all the construction works to widen roads and improving the transport systems etc..and if u haven't notice..the roads that have no ERP or alternative roads are being expanded..the government don't have the time to say each detail..it's all up to us to decide for ourselves..but ultimately it's ur choice to see it..~i see what the government is giving..u see what it is taking..i'm happy...u're angry...so..which one do u wan to be..?happy or angry..?
btw: with all the taxes and contribution made by Singaporeans from 40 plus years ago till now..we've gone through from a kampong to this incredible state in juz 40 plus years..would u have choose otherwise..?if u did..would u have the liberty of having a com at the comfort of ur own home..?pay bills at ur axs machines..?ezlink card?electronic singpass..?choose again...~
i believe there is a reason behind the freedom of press..and MM Lee has given his clear explanation throughout his political life...when he was young..and even now he is holding the same explanation..but Singapore is liberating..have a read on the topics and keypoints of the 2008 national rally..~ :)
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Do you really think patriotism honor, integrity is what stop people from being corrupt, if that is the case, we dun have to pay these people top money to “prevent” corruption.
The only thing that is stopping them from bribery is punishment. Punishment from a future of more lucrative handouts is what stopping them.
You know, you don’t kill the golden goose that lays the golden egg. Why will u want to kill the goose by being corrupt, it will better to get perpetual “golden eggs”.4th in corruption just means our officials are not prone to corruption… It does not state HOW we achieve that. It does not also mean our officials are patriots and discharge their work with integrity.
Yes 7% GST is low compare to other countries…. But bear in mind, we dun have any welfare systems, we dun have free medical care, so it will be an unfair statement to say out GST is comparative low.
btw: with all the taxes and contribution made by Singaporeans from 40 plus years ago till now..we've gone through from a kampong to this incredible state in juz 40 plus years..would u have choose otherwise..?if u did..would u have the liberty of having a com at the comfort of ur own home..?pay bills at ur axs machines..?ezlink card?electronic singpass..?choose again...~
For this, we have all the older people whom have made Singapore as it is today to thank for, it is their sweat thant made Singapore what it is today.
.~i see what the government is giving..u see what it is taking..i'm happy...u're angry...so..which one do u wan to be..?happy or angry..?
Then I think I am happily angry? -
Originally posted by eagle:
Does your example show u supporting Singapore being run like a company, with common folks like you and me being treated like employees?
To me, employees have less right (depending on the position and seniority) in the company than citizens (each and every citizen should have equal right) has in a country..
And your example is not really valid. It's not about the VP getting the salary rise along with the rest of the board. This is only similar to the PM getting the salary rise along with the rest of the ministers, which isn't what I'm driving at.
my example shows u how u should look at this situation..how much we are worth in ur sense is up to u..if in the case that i can do better than u but i'm also an employee..i would expect my pay to rise faster than urs..how much we can get from the employer depends on how much u justify u're worth..if u come into the workforce as a pri certification onli and expect the pay of the VP and have control of the whole company's operations and welfare..?u as an employer...will u give such a power to ur employee..?and if i'm an employee too..would i feel safe to have my job looked over by someone who's not qualified and justified to do so..?it's not running a company...it's call hierarchy of power..it's not about having the full rights..it's about having your say and your share of rights...
in a company..every single employee counts..it's about caring for ur employee..not juz running a company for profits..even if it's juz a toilet cleaner..i'm sure the company would take care of him too..he may get the least of salary...but the company would give him his rights in his area..think about it..if u're an employer..would u decide and settle with a decision that will disrupt the whole company juz because the cleaner wans a say in an area out of his job scope..?or maybe the frontline salesman wan a say in the operations of the product development process...?
we have our rights and our say in this country..each and every citizen have their rights..but it's the people who put together the regulations and policies in this country that we're crediting..can people like u can mi come up with the plan of giving 16 weeks maternity leave and put it into full operations..?we don't have the knowledge and wisedom to make such decision and planning...if u're an employee in the front sales department..would u be able to come up with the whole product development plan and all the way till it's out in the shelves..?no we can't..so we leave it to these people to do it..juz like we leave it to the product development manager to do his job..and if something is wrong..we tell them..if necessary..changes will be made..we are not using the systems and policies that are put in place 40 years ago...but we're using the amended ones...they are doing their part as well..~
my example is the same as what's going on..look at the company's growth..if the company grow..should the president's pay grow too..?our governors are like the sales and product development team..if the company grew..should their efforts be rewarded..?
and lastly to the employees..we're all growing too..it's up to u to decide if u wanna jump from department to department learning more things and upgrade urself..in a company..u can never stay in one department and grow all the way up to have the best pay of the company..u always have to take on more responsibilities and learn more to justify what u can do for the company..everytime u move on..ur pay increases..this is a good example of jumping from job to job...can u as a workforce citizen stay in one job forever and expect the company to pay rise u every single year..?or do u need to jump from job to job after years to get a higher pay...?we're all growing as a nation...if we're not growing..ur start pay would still be 160bucks/month...that's my father's first job pay more than 40 years ago...our start pay is around 1600bucks/month..are we growing..?how fast u wanna grow is entirely up to u...~u decide..~
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
my example shows u how u should look at this situation..how much we are worth in ur sense is up to u..if in the case that i can do better than u but i'm also an employee..i would expect my pay to rise faster than urs..how much we can get from the employer depends on how much u justify u're worth..if u come into the workforce as a pri certification onli and expect the pay of the VP and have control of the whole company's operations and welfare..?u as an employer...will u give such a power to ur employee..?and if i'm an employee too..would i feel safe to have my job looked over by someone who's not qualified and justified to do so..?it's not running a company...it's call hierarchy of power..it's not about having the full rights..it's about having your say and your share of rights...
in a company..every single employee counts..it's about caring for ur employee..not juz running a company for profits..even if it's juz a toilet cleaner..i'm sure the company would take care of him too..he may get the least of salary...but the company would give him his rights in his area..think about it..if u're an employer..would u decide and settle with a decision that will disrupt the whole company juz because the cleaner wans a say in an area out of his job scope..?or maybe the frontline salesman wan a say in the operations of the product development process...?
we have our rights and our say in this country..each and every citizen have their rights..but it's the people who put together the regulations and policies in this country that we're crediting..can people like u can mi come up with the plan of giving 16 weeks maternity leave and put it into full operations..?we don't have the knowledge and wisedom to make such decision and planning...if u're an employee in the front sales department..would u be able to come up with the whole product development plan and all the way till it's out in the shelves..?no we can't..so we leave it to these people to do it..juz like we leave it to the product development manager to do his job..and if something is wrong..we tell them..if necessary..changes will be made..we are not using the systems and policies that are put in place 40 years ago...but we're using the amended ones...they are doing their part as well..~
my example is the same as what's going on..look at the company's growth..if the company grow..should the president's pay grow too..?our governors are like the sales and product development team..if the company grew..should their efforts be rewarded..?
and lastly to the employees..we're all growing too..it's up to u to decide if u wanna jump from department to department learning more things and upgrade urself..in a company..u can never stay in one department and grow all the way up to have the best pay of the company..u always have to take on more responsibilities and learn more to justify what u can do for the company..everytime u move on..ur pay increases..this is a good example of jumping from job to job...can u as a workforce citizen stay in one job forever and expect the company to pay rise u every single year..?or do u need to jump from job to job after years to get a higher pay...?we're all growing as a nation...if we're not growing..ur start pay would still be 160bucks/month...that's my father's first job pay more than 40 years ago...our start pay is around 1600bucks/month..are we growing..?how fast u wanna grow is entirely up to u...~u decide..~
what you are saying or countering is very different from what I'm driving at; it's out of point. Guess we are on different frequencies
but nvm... doesn't matter to me at all whether you didn't understand or I didn't make myself clear enough...
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Originally posted by whiskers:
Do you really think patriotism honor, integrity is what stop people from being corrupt, if that is the case, we dun have to pay these people top money to “prevent” corruption.
The only thing that is stopping them from bribery is punishment. Punishment from a future of more lucrative handouts is what stopping them.
You know, you don’t kill the golden goose that lays the golden egg. Why will u want to kill the goose by being corrupt, it will better to get perpetual “golden eggs”.4th in corruption just means our officials are not prone to corruption… It does not state HOW we achieve that. It does not also mean our officials are patriots and discharge their work with integrity.
Yes 7% GST is low compare to other countries…. But bear in mind, we dun have any welfare systems, we dun have free medical care, so it will be an unfair statement to say out GST is comparative low.
For this, we have all the older people whom have made Singapore as it is today to thank for, it is their sweat thant made Singapore what it is today.
Then I think I am happily angry?
yes my friend..i think part of the job is done by patriotism and integrity..it's not juz a fear of punishment that's stopping people from being corrupted..where do u work now...?let's say u work in Lotus Elise development team..that's a sport car series juz in case...and ur pride is in ur work..people from another sports brand series is willing to give u a sum of money to have u disclose the trade secret or sabotage ur development team or ur company..would u accept the offer..?remember..u might not get caught at all doing it..but the question is..would u do it..?i think this question goes out to all the readers..would u all do it..?think of it..u have developed Ferrari Envo..it's u and ur team's pride..would u betray and give up ur whole team..?i know there are instances that someone would say yes...but for the instances that people say no..ask urself y no...i'm not saying that this is the full reason of y u would have said no...but this is part of the reason..
i'm sure countries would give tons of money to bribe military commanders..much much more than their pay...but look at ur army commanders..they are servants of the nation too..they have pride..they wear their army uniform with deep pride..ready to die for the country..believe it or not..i'm very sure they feel that 20k/month is not worth killing themselves..but it's the love for the country and nation...
corruption ranking also takes into consideration of the past corruption cases..if it's realli so that Singapore is on the 4th for our goverment proness to corruption...shouldn't u feel safe to know that our government is truly at 4th...?there's a way for the World Audit Corruption to calculate the figures..and on top of that...don't u feel that u're mentioning the few key considersations of calculating this corruption score..?don't u think that it will be down-right weird and out of topic if these are not put into consideration..?u're not calculating the billboard charts u know...
truly if we have welfare and free health care systems..u and i would be paying 50% or even 60% tax instead..and u would have beggars and free-riders on the streets enjoying ur hard earned money juz because the government decides to have these welfare and free health care systems..would u like that...?this policy has given Singapore the strength to stand for itself..it has made Singapore know that they have to fight and work for their own bowl of rice..no one else is going to give them money..unless of course those realli needy families...the government is helping them isn't it..?the government wans to create an independent and competitive environment where people grow and the nation grow..it wasn't easy for Singapore government to have made the decision to walk this non-welfare-non-free-health-care-system road..but it has pull it off..
would u rather pay 50% income tax and 10% gst or pay for ur own health care and buy insurance to cover for it..?
Whiskers, remember.. "a bunch of warriors with no leader will lead them no where"..and like i mention in my earlier posts..it's not juz crediting the leaders when we say Singapore is good..it's crediting the whole country..u and mi included..people don't come up to u and say Lee Kuan Yew is very very good...they tell u Singapore is very very good..and for one man to be accountable for millions of lives..it wasn't easy..he pulled it off..he did it...u're not talking about sales of a company...u're talking about lives of millions of people..put that responsibility on u and u will know how heavy it is..put urself in his shoes 40plus years to go..but always remember..when he has left us..people will still see Singapore here..and he will no doubtedly still be the prime minister who lead all our forefathers to who we are today..
for u being happily angry..i can't help u..ur happiness is what u choose to be..ur call ur choice.. -
Originally posted by eagle:
what you are saying or countering is very different from what I'm driving at; it's out of point. Guess we are on different frequencies
but nvm... doesn't matter to me at all whether you didn't understand or I didn't make myself clear enough...
lolz..i couldn't understand ur previous previous post actualli...i suppose it's this way...i put it in simple words...when u are developing a country...u peg ur salaries and achievements on the country's performance..but when u are serving ur company...u peg ur salaries to ur company...if u don't work hard and ur company don't increase ur pay..that means our governors don't get to increase their pay too..?
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Originally posted by harrymushroom:
lolz..i couldn't understand ur previous previous post actualli...i suppose it's this way...i put it in simple words...when u are developing a country...u peg ur salaries and achievements on the country's performance..but when u are serving ur company...u peg ur salaries to ur company...if u don't work hard and ur company don't increase ur pay..that means our governors don't get to increase their pay too..?
Yes, but the thing is, how do you judge a country's performance?
By looking at how much better the life of the top earners is (which is what is being done in the pegging of ministerial salaries), or by looking as well to how much better the life of the bottom earners/common folks are?
My suggestion:E.g. Supposed minister salaries are pegged to 18 times of average bottom earner salary (say $1k), they still get $18k a month. Or perhaps, the calculations should be done on the average earnings of all Singaporeans, and not just the top earners.
There's a main problem with the current system. True, high salaries as incentives might get better talent (note, money as the main incentive). But because their salary is pegged to the top earners, there's more incentive to improve the earnings of the top earners, which is rather dumb. How about the bottom earners?
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Originally posted by eagle:
Yes, but the thing is, how do you judge a country's performance?
By looking at how much better the life of the top earners is (which is what is being done in the pegging of ministerial salaries), or by looking as well to how much better the life of the bottom earners/common folks are?
My suggestion:E.g. Supposed minister salaries are pegged to 18 times of average bottom earner salary (say $1k), they still get $18k a month. Or perhaps, the calculations should be done on the average earnings of all Singaporeans, and not just the top earners.
There's a main problem with the current system. True, high salaries as incentives might get better talent (note, money as the main incentive). But because their salary is pegged to the top earners, there's more incentive to improve the earnings of the top earners, which is rather dumb. How about the bottom earners?
"Get out of my elite uncaring face!"
I'm pegging it to the highest salaries and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Yes, but the thing is, how do you judge a country's performance?
By looking at how much better the life of the top earners is (which is what is being done in the pegging of ministerial salaries), or by looking as well to how much better the life of the bottom earners/common folks are?
My suggestion:E.g. Supposed minister salaries are pegged to 18 times of average bottom earner salary (say $1k), they still get $18k a month. Or perhaps, the calculations should be done on the average earnings of all Singaporeans, and not just the top earners.
There's a main problem with the current system. True, high salaries as incentives might get better talent (note, money as the main incentive). But because their salary is pegged to the top earners, there's more incentive to improve the earnings of the top earners, which is rather dumb. How about the bottom earners?
For the Ministers to get higher salaries, they need to increase the salaries of the low wage earners, a win-win situation. But as we know it, Ministers are greedy pigs, you think they will agree to such a scheme.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Yes, but the thing is, how do you judge a country's performance?
By looking at how much better the life of the top earners is (which is what is being done in the pegging of ministerial salaries), or by looking as well to how much better the life of the bottom earners/common folks are?
My suggestion:E.g. Supposed minister salaries are pegged to 18 times of average bottom earner salary (say $1k), they still get $18k a month. Or perhaps, the calculations should be done on the average earnings of all Singaporeans, and not just the top earners.
There's a main problem with the current system. True, high salaries as incentives might get better talent (note, money as the main incentive). But because their salary is pegged to the top earners, there's more incentive to improve the earnings of the top earners, which is rather dumb. How about the bottom earners?
Hey how true i never thought of that before... Hmmm the end result for the current system in future will be a bias for the rich to get richer!! and the poor to remain stagnant.. Nice observation
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Originally posted by ulquiorra87:
Hey how true i never thought of that before... Hmmm the end result for the current system in future will be a bias for the rich to get richer!! and the poor to remain stagnant.. Nice observation
Actually I stated quite a few times in a few different versions in this forum before... :p
One additional thing to add is, to increase the income of the top earners, one of the easiest way is to suppress wages in general, because the top earners are usually businessmen who employ these people. Double whammy for the bottom earners.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Yes, but the thing is, how do you judge a country's performance?
By looking at how much better the life of the top earners is (which is what is being done in the pegging of ministerial salaries), or by looking as well to how much better the life of the bottom earners/common folks are?
My suggestion:E.g. Supposed minister salaries are pegged to 18 times of average bottom earner salary (say $1k), they still get $18k a month. Or perhaps, the calculations should be done on the average earnings of all Singaporeans, and not just the top earners.
There's a main problem with the current system. True, high salaries as incentives might get better talent (note, money as the main incentive). But because their salary is pegged to the top earners, there's more incentive to improve the earnings of the top earners, which is rather dumb. How about the bottom earners?
hie eagle..after reading what u have wrote..i understand the different frequencies that we're in and y it's that way..pls don't mislead the readers of this forum...like in a test..we are to look at same variables..the big question here is how is a country's performance measured?let mi ask u..if u have a company..how is ur company's performance measured...?by the pay of the directors..?if the pay of the directors do not increase means the company has not moved upwards..?when do u increase the directors pay then..?when one of the director's pay increase...?or when the company expands and earns more revenue..?
so how is a country's performance measured..?GDP?GDP per capita?citizens earnings..?the answer is by a measure of GDP...the view that u're looking at is one of the limitations of measuring the country's performance by GDP. GDP is the total of all our expenditures, plus investments we made, the government spending, our exports and imports...all added together..this is done to give a more accurate gauge of the country's performance..the rise and fall of all citizens pay will affect the GDP and thus the measure of performance in a country..so it's not juz pegging on the high earners or low earners..
think about it...y is the country's performance not juz calculating the low earners..?let's say u and mi..we go into the workforce and don't care about our job...and it's all the higher earners that's working to move the country...the country has advance..but u and mi have not..has the country's performance improved..?the world does not revolve around mi and u...it's the whole country altogether..despite our laziness to work...the country will still move..so a collective of the whole country's effort is used..plus the people who's leading us does have his salary peg on ours...that's our supervisor and managers..they lead us directly..if we have a lousy supervisor..the minister gets the blame..?or every man for his own actions..?
so..for ur suggestion..the average earnings of all Singaporeans and all performance indicators of this country has been taken into consideration. Including yours and mine...
Maybe u can do the math on the GDP and include the information from there too..?