Does Everyone hate america???
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
googoomuck, you hate muslims so much?
Spread so much propaganda against them.
Everything is propaganda to you?
These are reported in newspapers all over the world !
Do you deny that the events actually happened?
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I didn't say they were false propaganda.
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i never heard of a religion which promotes violence against the innocent or non-combatants. its only people who hijack their religion to justify their violent means to gain power. There is no need for muslims or any other religion whose followers commit terrorists acts to loudly protest or condemn the actions of some brainwashed fools. To have the mentality that all Muslims are "sympathetic" to the terrorists will just alienate muslims who are against terrorism.
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googoomuck... are you even a Singaporean? or just a foreigner pretending to be a Singaproean in sgf?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
- Let's go way back. MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims are outraged.
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Originally posted by MohamedF:Originally posted by googoomuck:
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
- Let's go way back. MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
- MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims outrage.
- Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore muslims are outraged.
I did not insert "MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore". You edited my post.
What are you trying to do?Are you not doing what the so called 'bad' Muslims are doing, distorting facts?
Islam is an Arab religion. It was spread to other parts of the world mostly by the sword. Parameswara was a Hindu who converted to Islam, perhaps for political reasons. His pliant subjects followed.
You have inherited the religion because of Parameswara, Unless you are Indian Muslim.
Muslims cannot denounce Islam. Hence, Malays became associated with Islam. That's the problem.
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The Spread Of Islam To Southeast Asia
The spread of Islam to various parts of coastal India set the stage for
its further expansion to island Southeast Asia. As we have seen, Arab traders
and sailors regularly visited the ports of Southeast Asia long before they
converted to Islam. Initially the region was little more than a middle ground,
where the Chinese segment of the great Euroasian trading complex met the
Indian Ocean trading zone to the west. At ports on the coast of the Malayan
peninsula, east Sumatra, and somewhat later north Java, goods from China were
transferred from East Asian vessels to Arab or Indian ships, and products from
as far west as Rome were loaded into the emptied Chinese ships to be carried
to East Asia. By the 7th and 8th centuries A.D., sailors and ships from areas
within Southeast Asia - particularly Sumatra and Malaya - had become active in
the seaborne trade of the region. Southeast Asian products, especially luxury
items, such as aromatic woods from the rainforests of Borneo and Sumatra, and
spices, such as cloves, nutmeg, and mace from the far end of the Indonesian
archipelago, had also become important exports to both China in the east and
India and the Mediterranean area in the west. These trading links were to
prove even more critical to the expansion of Islam in Southeast Asia than they
had earlier been to the spread of Buddhism and Hinduism.
As the coastal trade and shipping of India came to be controlled (from
the 8th century onward) increasingly by Muslims from such regions as Gujarat
and various parts of south India, elements of Islamic culture began to filter
into island Southeast Asia. But only in the 13th century after the collapse of
the far-flung trading empire of Shrivijaya, which was centered on the Straits
of Malacca between Malaya and the north tip of Sumatra, was the way open for
the widespread proselytization of Islam. With its great war fleets, Shrivijaya
controlled trade in much of the area and was at times so powerful that it
could launch attacks on rival empires in south India. Indian traders, Muslim
or otherwise, were welcome to trade in the chain of ports controlled by
Shrivijaya. Since the rulers and officials of Shrivijaya were devout
Buddhists, however, there was little incentive for the traders and sailors of
Southeast Asian ports to convert to Islam, the religion of growing numbers of
the merchants and sailors from India. With the fall of Shrivijaya, the way was
open for the establishment of Muslim trading centers and efforts to preach the
faith to the coastal peoples. Muslim conquests in areas such as Gujarat and
Bengal, which separated Southeast Asia from Buddhist centers in India from the
11th century onward, also played a role in opening the way for Muslim
conversion.
The Pattern Of Conversion
As was the case in most of the areas to which Islam spread, peaceful and
voluntary conversion was far more important than conquest and force in
spreading the faith in Southeast Asia. Almost everywhere in the islands of the
region, trading contacts paved the way for conversion. Muslim merchants and
sailors introduced local peoples to the ideas and rituals of the new faith and
impressed on them how much of the known world had already been converted.
Muslim ships also carried Sufis to various parts of Southeast Asia, where they
were destined to play as vital a role in conversion as they had in India. The
first areas to be won to Islam in the last decades of the 13th century were
several small port centers on the northern coast of Sumatra. From these ports,
the religion spread in the following centuries across the Strait of Malacca to
Malaya.
On the mainland the key to widespread conversion was the powerful trading
city of Malacca, whose smaller trading empire had replaced the fallen
Shrivijaya. From the capital at Malacca, Islam spread down the east coast of
Sumatra, up the east and west coasts of Malaya, to the island of Borneo, and
to the trading center of Demak on the north coast of Java. From Demak, the
most powerful of the trading states on north Java, the Muslim faith was
disseminated to other Javanese ports and, after a long struggle with a
Hindu-Buddhist kingdom in the interior, to the rest of the island. From Demak,
Islam was also carried to the Celebes, tha spice islands in the eastern
archipelago, and from there to Mindanao in the southern Philippines.
This progress of Islamic conversion shows that port cities in coastal
areas were particularly receptive to the new faith. Here the trading links
were critical. Once one of the key cities in a trading cluster converted, it
was in the best interest of others to follow suit in order to enhance personal
ties and provide a common basis in Muslim law to regulate business deals.
Conversion to Islam also linked these centers, culturally as well as
economically, to the merchants and ports of India, the Middle East, and the
Mediterranean. Islam made slow progress in areas such as central Java, where
Hindu-Buddhist dynasties contested its spread. But the fact that the earlier
conversion to these Indian religions had been confined mainly to the ruling
elites in Java and other island areas left openings for mass conversions to
Islam that the Sufis eventually exploited. The island of Bali, where Hinduism
had taken deep root at the popular level, remained largely impervious to the
spread of Islam. The same was true of most of mainland Southeast Asia, where
centuries before the coming of Islam, Theravada Buddhism had spread from India
and Ceylon and won the fervent adherence of both the ruling elites and the
peasant masses.
Sufi Mystics And The Nature Of Southeast Asian Islam
The fact that Islam came to Southeast Asia primarily from India and that
it was spread in many areas by Sufis had much to do with the mystical quality
of the religion and its tolerance for coexistence with earlier animist, Hindu,
and Buddhist beliefs and rituals. Just as they had in the Middle East and
India, the Sufis who spread Islam in Southeast Asia varied widely in
personality and approach. Most were believed by those who followed them to
have magical powers, and virtually all Sufis established mosque and school
centers from which they traveled in neighboring regions to preach the faith.
In winning converts, the Sufis were willing to allow the inhabitants of
island Southeast Asia to retain pre-Islamic beliefs and practices that
orthodox scholars would clearly have found contrary to Islamic doctrine.
Pre-Islamic customary law remained important in regulating social interaction,
while Islamic law was confined to specific sorts of agreements and exchanges.
Women retained a much stronger position, both within the family and in
society, than they had in the Middle East and India. Local and regional
markets, for example, continued to be dominated by the trading of small-scale
female buyers and sellers. In such areas as western Sumatra, lineage and
inheritance continued to be traced through the female line after the coming of
Islam, despite its tendency to promote male dominance and descent through the
male line. Perhaps most tellingly, pre-Muslim religious beliefs and rituals
were incorporated into Muslim ceremonies. Indigenous cultural staples, such as
the brilliant Javanese shadow plays that were based on the Indian epics of the
Brahmanic age, were refined, and they became even more central to popular and
elite belief and practice than they had been in the pre-Muslim era. -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
I did not insert "MohamedF, fudgester, Singapore". You edited my post.
What are you trying to do?Are you not doing what the so called 'bad' Muslims are doing, distorting facts?
Islam is an Arab religion. It was spread to other parts of the world mostly by the sword. Parameswara was a Hindu who converted to Islam, perhaps for political reasons. His pliant subjects followed.
You have inherited the religion because of Parameswara, Unless you are Indian Muslim.
Muslims cannot denounce Islam. Hence, Malays became associated with Islam. That's the problem.
But the thing is, I am a muslim... so by saying muslims did bad things, you're say that I do bad thing...
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Generalisation is the root of racism... because a few muslims decided to go against the quran and do bad things means all muslims are bad... because some indians smells bad means all indians smells bad... because a few MLM companies turns out to be scams means all MLM are scams...
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
But the thing is, I am a muslim... so by saying muslims did bad things, you're say that I do bad thing...
I didn't say that.
I give you the benefit of the doubt. You could be a moderate Muslim who doesn't engage in terrorism but then you are not one of the precious few Muslims who actively fight against terrorism acts within their ranks.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
I didn't say that.
I give you the benefit of the doubt. You could be a moderate Muslim who doesn't engage in terrorism but then you are not one of the precious few Muslims who actively fight against terrorism acts within their ranks.
If you read my previous posts, you can see how wrong you are...
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Here in SIngapore... you can find many muslims in uniforms keeping Singapore safe from crimes and from terrorism... I am sure you can find many more in all the countries of the world...
And in the mosques, there are Imams teaching that Islam is not about terrorism and to stop the terrorism ideology from spreading...
These things are facts... but why don't you know about these... there are many muslims fighting terrorism in their own way but you don't know about them... why haven't you heard about them...
Its because they do not appear on TV or other mainstream media... or they are not given enough face time compared to the terrorist...
If you want to see muslims are fighting against terrorism, get off your butt, switch off your computer and go down to a local mosque and talk to someone... then you can take an MRT ride until you see the MRT units... make sure to take a look at their name tags...
Muslims fighting terrorism is actually everywhere... its whether you chose to see it or not...
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
Here in SIngapore... you can find many muslims in uniforms keeping Singapore safe from crimes and from terrorism... I am sure you can find many more in all the countries of the world...
And in the mosques, there are Imams teaching that Islam is not about terrorism and to stop the terrorism ideology from spreading...
These things are facts... but why don't you know about these... there are many muslims fighting terrorism in their own way but you don't know about them... why haven't you heard about them...
Its because they do not appear on TV or other mainstream media... or they are not given enough face time compared to the terrorist...
If you want to see muslims are fighting against terrorism, get off your butt, switch off your computer and go down to a local mosque and talk to someone... then you can take an MRT ride until you see the MRT units... make sure to take a look at their name tags...
Muslims fighting terrorism is actually everywhere... its whether you chose to see it or not...
Ok. But jus bear in mind... Its not the world has any prejudice against muslim... It just happens that some of the more notorious events that happen in the world today are perpetrated by people; who happen to be muslims...
Let say, a few model of car produced by Ford is being know to be very unreliable. Just because of these few models, Ford's reputation will be negatively affected.
What should ford do? Tell the world that the other models they produce are the best while ignoring the few bad models? The thing ford will do is to improve their subsequent models of that particular car, and make sure the world knows about it.
So it is the same with muslim now. Yes I know not all muslims are bad, there are lots of moderates out there, but if muslims want to clear of this bad name, they have to be more proactive in renoucing terrorism and fight against it.
Please don't take this writing personally... Simply My 2 cents. -
Originally posted by whiskers:
Ok. But jus bear in mind... Its not the world has any prejudice against muslim... It just happens that some of the more notorious events that happen in the world today are perpetrated by people; who happen to be muslims...
Let say, a few model of car produced by Ford is being know to be very unreliable. Just because of these few models, Ford's reputation will be negatively affected.
What should ford do? Tell the world that the other models they produce are the best while ignoring the few bad models? The thing ford will do is to improve their subsequent models of that particular car, and make sure the world knows about it.
So it is the same with muslim now. Yes I know not all muslims are bad, there are lots of moderates out there, but if muslims want to clear of this bad name, they have to be more proactive in renoucing terrorism and fight against it.
Please don't take this writing personally... Simply My 2 cents.WELL SAID!
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Originally posted by whiskers:
Ok. But jus bear in mind... Its not the world has any prejudice against muslim... It just happens that some of the more notorious events that happen in the world today are perpetrated by people; who happen to be muslims...
Let say, a few model of car produced by Ford is being know to be very unreliable. Just because of these few models, Ford's reputation will be negatively affected.
What should ford do? Tell the world that the other models they produce are the best while ignoring the few bad models? The thing ford will do is to improve their subsequent models of that particular car, and make sure the world knows about it.
So it is the same with muslim now. Yes I know not all muslims are bad, there are lots of moderates out there, but if muslims want to clear of this bad name, they have to be more proactive in renoucing terrorism and fight against it.
Please don't take this writing personally... Simply My 2 cents.I think hor, u are been unreasonable, you cannot take cars or things to compare with human. Things are death you know, human are living creature. They got feeling and emotion ya. You can change ford images, but you cannot change human characters.
Anyway, I am glad that you know certain logic sense here, so in knowing how prejudicity works, you should be in a better position to understand that Muslim are ok, it just that there are different types of Muslims, and some are real bad.
Keep yr 2 cents into my piggy bank
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Originally posted by MohamedF:
Here in SIngapore... you can find many muslims in uniforms keeping Singapore safe from crimes and from terrorism... I am sure you can find many more in all the countries of the world...
And in the mosques, there are Imams teaching that Islam is not about terrorism and to stop the terrorism ideology from spreading...
These things are facts... but why don't you know about these... there are many muslims fighting terrorism in their own way but you don't know about them... why haven't you heard about them...
Its because they do not appear on TV or other mainstream media... or they are not given enough face time compared to the terrorist...
If you want to see muslims are fighting against terrorism, get off your butt, switch off your computer and go down to a local mosque and talk to someone... then you can take an MRT ride until you see the MRT units... make sure to take a look at their name tags...
Muslims fighting terrorism is actually everywhere... its whether you chose to see it or not...
In singapore, i see malay working as policemen, civil defends and many other civil servant jobs. If you said muslim, can i said that they are many buddhist and taoist taking up post in civil servants, and many rich christian doing business in ORchard road.So, you see the problem, Malay is a race, muslim is a religion that everyone can be involve, like the arab, turk and chinese. By indicating that Muslim take up those jobs is already a sense of grouping, you should say some of our good Singaporean Malays, nothing to do with religion, that is why contradication alway come into the picture.
All religions teaches good, they have my respect, just that human manipulated them into their advantage to gain power and rule.
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Originally posted by youyayu:
a god is a god in the eyes of the believer, the name is only a name for the calling sake, try not to listen to too much irrelevant interpretation by humans, they are just selling your soul.As Angel prayed,
Forgive them my lord, for they dunno what they are looking at.
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Religion is good... as long as it doesn't cross into politics.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
In singapore, i see malay working as policemen, civil defends and many other civil servant jobs. If you said muslim, can i said that they are many buddhist and taoist taking up post in civil servants, and many rich christian doing business in ORchard road.So, you see the problem, Malay is a race, muslim is a religion that everyone can be involve, like the arab, turk and chinese. By indicating that Muslim take up those jobs is already a sense of grouping, you should say some of our good Singaporean Malays, nothing to do with religion, that is why contradication alway come into the picture.
All religions teaches good, they have my respect, just that human manipulated them into their advantage to gain power and rule.
Hmmm.... pardon my ignorance.. but... I've never come across any Malays that is non muslim leh....
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Hmmm.... pardon my ignorance.. but... I've never come across any Malays that is non muslim leh....
er.. almost teenager now i see they are malay.. but don't care about wad the moss teaches.. just like they are ignoring...
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Originally posted by angel7030:
a god is a god in the eyes of the believer, the name is only a name for the calling sake, try not to listen to too much irrelevant interpretation by humans, they are just selling your soul.As Angel prayed,
Forgive them my lord, for they dunno what they are looking at.
God = the 3 Os namely Omnipresent (everywhere), Omniscient (knows everthing) & Omnipotent (almighty). Whoever, whatever has the aforesaid 3 prerequisites will qualify as a God.
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Originally posted by youyayu:
er.. almost teenager now i see they are malay.. but don't care about wad the moss teaches.. just like they are ignoring...
And so... does these misguided teenages who don't care about Islam represent the young malay muslims who goes to mosque everyday...?
Plus that video... Dave Hunt and Walid Shoebat... Do you really think these people are qualified to tell people who the muslim god is?
Do you ask your science teacher about Social studies?
And yes, one of god's 99 names is the destroyer and the bringer of death... for god will decide when and bring about judgement day...
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i wished the world was without religion(not meaning that ppl dun believe in god) and racism...instead of having religion to gather ppl which at the same time seperates ppl too, we'd have culture to gather ppl...ppl would be exchanging cultures..hmm
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Originally posted by richong 3216:
God = the 3 Os namely Omnipresent (everywhere), Omniscient (knows everthing) & Omnipotent (almighty). Whoever, whatever has the aforesaid 3 prerequisites will qualify as a God.
Sadly, it doesnt help if he's invisible and doesn't seem to do much!