So what's your point on Islam?
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:So what's your point on Islam?
I don't believe in Islam.
Wah lau eh, back to topic liao leh.
Just because some fucker fuck up a religion, means the religion is bad. Bad sheeps are everywhere la. Wtf. No link dude. No link.
There are always 2 sides to things, so its a matter of u choose to close one eye to the bad and see the good or vice versa or u can choose to see it as a object by itself.
Its just like any other human, things or places.
Originally posted by googoomuck:I don't believe in Islam.
U dont believe means its bad? or u dont believe cos its bad?
I also dont believe in any religion or such.
I don't believe in Islam.
Then you believe in what?
It is not wise to discuss personal religion belifs here.
Originally posted by seotiblizzard:
U dont believe means its bad? or u dont believe cos its bad?I also dont believe in any religion or such.
I don't believe because there are too many contradictions and inconsistencies.I've quoted a few verses in this thread and it's up to people to draw their own conclusion. Ignorance is not a bliss.
While Muslim philosophers clearly acknowledged that there's a doctrineof abrogation because of the contradictions and inconsistencies, certain Muslims denied it. Isn't this confusing?
Finally, I don't believe that Muslims can dominate the world.
I don't believe because there are too many contradictions and inconsistencies.
Same with Bible.
Penn & Teller - The Bible is Bullshit
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I won't worry for Penn and Teller.
The Pope will not issue a death fatwa on them.
Islam no Caliph also.
The Pope will not issue a death fatwa on them.
Last time Pope sanctioned crusades.
I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it...
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Last time Pope sanctioned crusades.
I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it...
You have to mention the reason too. This was the First Crusade. The fate of Jerusalem and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre were the Pope's concern. The enemies were the invading Seljuq Turks, yes, the Muslims again.
frm a hater thread to a religion insult thread ??
all i wanted to say is i don't hate US as majority of rappers are born thr ~
Originally posted by googoomuck:You have to mention the reason too. This was the First Crusade. The fate of Jerusalem and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre were the Pope's concern. The enemies were the invading Seljuq Turks, yes, the Muslims again.
The First Crusade? When the crusaders finally captured Jerusalem and massacred Jews and Muslims? With the Pope's blessings in fact. So how? Can i say all Christians are terrorists and murderers based on what happen in 1099?
Originally posted by Man!x:The First Crusade? When the crusaders finally captured Jerusalem and massacred Jews and Muslims? With the Pope's blessings in fact. So how? Can i say all Christians are terrorists and murderers based on what happen in 1099?
if you say we chrisitians are terrorists and murderers cos of that.. great.. muslim really are terrorists and murderers.
Originally posted by youyayu:if you say we chrisitians are terrorists and murderers cos of that.. great.. muslim really are terrorists and murderers.
i was asking a question, not stating a fact....it is already stated and repeated countless of times..the actions of a few do not dictate the whole community...why is it so difficult to swallow?
Originally posted by Man!x:i was asking a question, not stating a fact....it is already stated and repeated countless of times..the actions of a few do not dictate the whole community...why is it so difficult to swallow?
So, you don't look on facts, eh? Why are you surprised that the Muslims were massacred? The Muslims had invaded Jerusalem. Christians at the time had blamed the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ.
Back the the present. Oh yes, we read the words of 'moderate' Muslims but we also see the action. Action speak louder than words.
Originally posted by googoomuck:So, you don't look on facts, eh? Why are you surprised that the Muslims were massacred? The Muslims had invaded Jerusalem. Christians at the time had blamed the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ.
Back the the present. Oh yes, we read the words of 'moderate' Muslims but we also see the action. Action speak louder than words.
The 'invasion' of jerusalem
In 637, after a prolonged siege of Jerusalem, the Muslims finally entered the city peacefully following the signing of a treaty by the Patriach of Elya Al-Quds (i.e. Jerusalem) and Umar himself. Several years earlier, the Patriach had announced that he would not sign a treaty with anyone other than the Caliph himself. For this reason, `Umar personally came to Jerusalem after Muslims had established control of all the surrounding territory. According to both Muslim and Christian accounts, `Umar entered the city humbly, walking beside a camel upon which his servant was sitting, due to the reason they share turns over it and it was his servant's turn when they happen to reach the city. He is said to have been given the keys to the city by the Orthodox Christian Patriarch Sophronius, after conducting the peace treaty known as the Treaty of Umar, the English translation of which is provided below:
| “ | In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Beneficent.
This is what the slave of Allah, Umar b.Al-Khattab, the Amir of the believers, has offered the people of Illyaa’[1] of security granting them Amaan (protection) for their selves, their money, their churches, their children, their lowly and their innocent, and the remainder of their people. Their churches are not to be taken, nor are they to be destroyed, nor are they to be degraded or belittled, neither are their crosses or their money, and they are not to be forced to change their religion, nor is any one of them to be harmed. No Jews are to live with them in Illyaa’ and it is required of the people of Illyaa’ to pay the Jizya, like the people of the cities. It is also required of them to remove the Romans from the land; and whoever amongst the people of Illyaa’ that wishes to depart with their money together with the Romans, leaving their trading goods and children behind, then they selves, their trading goods and their children are secure until they reach their destination. Upon what is in this book is the word of Allah, the covenant of His Messenger, of the Khulafaa’ and of the believers if they (the people of Illyaa’) gave what was required of them of Jizya. The witnesses upon this were Khalid ibn Al-Walid, 'Amr ibn al-'As, Abdur Rahman bin Awf and Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan. Written and passed on the 15th year (after Hijrah) |
” |
Then Umar asked the Patriach to lead him to the place of the old Jewish Temple. Umar was shocked to find the site covered in rubbish, as the Romans had initiated the custom of using it as a dung heap. `Umar knelt down immediately, and began to clear the area with his hands. When the Muslims saw what he was doing, they followed his example, and soon the entire area of al-Aqsa, approximately 35 acres, was cleaned up. Thereafter, commissioned the construction of a wooden mosque on the southern end of the site, exactly where the present-day mosque of Al-Aqsa stands.
`Umar was then led to the sites of the Foundation Stone by a rabbi, Ka'ab al-Ahbar, who had converted to Islam. The rock was surrounded it by a fence, and several years later an Umayyad Khalif built the Dome of the Rock over the site.
Upon taking Jerusalem, `Umar demonstrated the utmost respect for members of the other faiths living in the city. For the first time in 500 years since their expulsion from the Holy Land, Jews were allowed to practice their religion freely and live in the vicinity of Jerusalem. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, seventy Jewish families took up residence in the city. `Umar also agreed to several pacts, called the Umariyya Covenant, with the local Christian population, determining their rights and obligations under Muslim rule.
from wiki
The first crusade
While members of all three religions were living in peace and harmony in Palestine, the Christians in Europe decided to organize the 'Crusades.' Following a call by Pope Urban II on 25 November 1095 at the Council of Clermont, more than 100,000 people from all over Europe set out for Palestine to 'Free the Holy land from the Muslims' and find the fabled wealth of the East. After a long and wearying journey, and much plundering and slaughter of Muslims, they reached Jerusalem in 1099. The city fell after a siege of nearly five weeks, and the Crusaders moved in. And they carried out a savagery the like of which the world has seldom seen. All Muslims and Jews in the city were put to the sword. In the words of one historian, 'They killed all the Saracens and the Turks they found... whether male of female." Geste Francorum, or the Deeds of the Franks and the Other Pilgrims to Jerusalem, trans. Rosalind Hill, London, 1962, p. 91
One of the Crusaders, Raymond of Aguiles, boasted of this violence:
Wonderful sights were to be seen. Some of our men (and this was more merciful) cut off the heads of their enemies; others shoot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon, a place where religious services are normally chanted ... in the temple and the porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins.August C. Krey, The First Crusade: The Accounts of Eye-Witnesses and Participants, Pinceton & London, 1921, p. 261
In two days, the Crusader army killed some 40,000 Muslims in the barbaric ways just described.The peace and harmony in Palestine, which had lasted since Omar, ended in terrible slaughter. The Crusaders violated all the ethical laws of Christianity, a religion of love and compassion, and spread terror, allegedly in the name of Christianity.
Back to topic i don't hate america as a whole but only those who make policy for personal gain with no regards for human life.i also do not hate any chirstian jews taoists buddhists or any other religion doe everyone have the right to pratice what he/she believe.i only have hatred for evil deeds comitted by the individual even if he/she is a muslim.
Originally posted by slowmover:The 'invasion' of jerusalem
In 637, after a prolonged siege of Jerusalem, the Muslims finally entered the city peacefully following the signing of a treaty by the Patriach of Elya Al-Quds (i.e. Jerusalem) and Umar himself. Several years earlier, the Patriach had announced that he would not sign a treaty with anyone other than the Caliph himself. For this reason, `Umar personally came to Jerusalem after Muslims had established control of all the surrounding territory. According to both Muslim and Christian accounts, `Umar entered the city humbly, walking beside a camel upon which his servant was sitting, due to the reason they share turns over it and it was his servant's turn when they happen to reach the city. He is said to have been given the keys to the city by the Orthodox Christian Patriarch Sophronius, after conducting the peace treaty known as the Treaty of Umar, the English translation of which is provided below:
“ In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Beneficent.
This is what the slave of Allah, Umar b.Al-Khattab, the Amir of the believers, has offered the people of Illyaa’[1] of security granting them Amaan (protection) for their selves, their money, their churches, their children, their lowly and their innocent, and the remainder of their people.
Their churches are not to be taken, nor are they to be destroyed, nor are they to be degraded or belittled, neither are their crosses or their money, and they are not to be forced to change their religion, nor is any one of them to be harmed.
No Jews are to live with them in Illyaa’ and it is required of the people of Illyaa’ to pay the Jizya, like the people of the cities. It is also required of them to remove the Romans from the land; and whoever amongst the people of Illyaa’ that wishes to depart with their money together with the Romans, leaving their trading goods and children behind, then they selves, their trading goods and their children are secure until they reach their destination.
Upon what is in this book is the word of Allah, the covenant of His Messenger, of the Khulafaa’ and of the believers if they (the people of Illyaa’) gave what was required of them of Jizya.
The witnesses upon this were Khalid ibn Al-Walid, 'Amr ibn al-'As, Abdur Rahman bin Awf and Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan. Written and passed on the 15th year (after Hijrah)
”
Then Umar asked the Patriach to lead him to the place of the old Jewish Temple. Umar was shocked to find the site covered in rubbish, as the Romans had initiated the custom of using it as a dung heap. `Umar knelt down immediately, and began to clear the area with his hands. When the Muslims saw what he was doing, they followed his example, and soon the entire area of al-Aqsa, approximately 35 acres, was cleaned up. Thereafter, commissioned the construction of a wooden mosque on the southern end of the site, exactly where the present-day mosque of Al-Aqsa stands.
`Umar was then led to the sites of the Foundation Stone by a rabbi, Ka'ab al-Ahbar, who had converted to Islam. The rock was surrounded it by a fence, and several years later an Umayyad Khalif built the Dome of the Rock over the site.
Upon taking Jerusalem, `Umar demonstrated the utmost respect for members of the other faiths living in the city. For the first time in 500 years since their expulsion from the Holy Land, Jews were allowed to practice their religion freely and live in the vicinity of Jerusalem. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, seventy Jewish families took up residence in the city. `Umar also agreed to several pacts, called the Umariyya Covenant, with the local Christian population, determining their rights and obligations under Muslim rule.
from wiki
The first crusade
While members of all three religions were living in peace and harmony in Palestine, the Christians in Europe decided to organize the 'Crusades.' Following a call by Pope Urban II on 25 November 1095 at the Council of Clermont, more than 100,000 people from all over Europe set out for Palestine to 'Free the Holy land from the Muslims' and find the fabled wealth of the East. After a long and wearying journey, and much plundering and slaughter of Muslims, they reached Jerusalem in 1099. The city fell after a siege of nearly five weeks, and the Crusaders moved in. And they carried out a savagery the like of which the world has seldom seen. All Muslims and Jews in the city were put to the sword. In the words of one historian, 'They killed all the Saracens and the Turks they found... whether male of female." Geste Francorum, or the Deeds of the Franks and the Other Pilgrims to Jerusalem, trans. Rosalind Hill, London, 1962, p. 91
One of the Crusaders, Raymond of Aguiles, boasted of this violence:
In two days, the Crusader army killed some 40,000 Muslims in the barbaric ways just described.The peace and harmony in Palestine, which had lasted since Omar, ended in terrible slaughter. The Crusaders violated all the ethical laws of Christianity, a religion of love and compassion, and spread terror, allegedly in the name of Christianity.
I commend your effort slowmover, but let me share with you something... you post this also, no use one... people will not believe you even if you product a thousand evidence... the best you can do is just correct people in what false info they have... the rest is whether they want to believe or not...
people will not believe you even if you product a thousand evidence.
True.
Once their mind is made up, there is no way to change their thinking.
Do propaganda work also no use.
“Smearcasting: How Islamophobes Spread Fear, Bigotry and Misinformation”
What has all this got to do with America? The answer is that when someone starts a thread it would somehow rather stray to the subject of religion,race ,politics and sex
Originally posted by Short Ninja:What has all this got to do with America? The answer is that when someone starts a thread it would somehow rather stray to the subject of religion,race ,politics and sex
K... back to topic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LysxbVZ1DNM
what americans think why other countries that them...
Originally posted by slowmover:The 'invasion' of jerusalem
In 637, after a prolonged siege of Jerusalem, the Muslims finally entered the city peacefully following the signing of a treaty by the Patriach of Elya Al-Quds (i.e. Jerusalem) and Umar himself. Several years earlier, the Patriach had announced that he would not sign a treaty with anyone other than the Caliph himself. For this reason, `Umar personally came to Jerusalem after Muslims had established control of all the surrounding territory. According to both Muslim and Christian accounts, `Umar entered the city humbly, walking beside a camel upon which his servant was sitting, due to the reason they share turns over it and it was his servant's turn when they happen to reach the city. He is said to have been given the keys to the city by the Orthodox Christian Patriarch Sophronius, after conducting the peace treaty known as the Treaty of Umar, the English translation of which is provided below:
“ In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Beneficent.
This is what the slave of Allah, Umar b.Al-Khattab, the Amir of the believers, has offered the people of Illyaa’[1] of security granting them Amaan (protection) for their selves, their money, their churches, their children, their lowly and their innocent, and the remainder of their people.
Their churches are not to be taken, nor are they to be destroyed, nor are they to be degraded or belittled, neither are their crosses or their money, and they are not to be forced to change their religion, nor is any one of them to be harmed.
No Jews are to live with them in Illyaa’ and it is required of the people of Illyaa’ to pay the Jizya, like the people of the cities. It is also required of them to remove the Romans from the land; and whoever amongst the people of Illyaa’ that wishes to depart with their money together with the Romans, leaving their trading goods and children behind, then they selves, their trading goods and their children are secure until they reach their destination.
Upon what is in this book is the word of Allah, the covenant of His Messenger, of the Khulafaa’ and of the believers if they (the people of Illyaa’) gave what was required of them of Jizya.
The witnesses upon this were Khalid ibn Al-Walid, 'Amr ibn al-'As, Abdur Rahman bin Awf and Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan. Written and passed on the 15th year (after Hijrah)
”
Then Umar asked the Patriach to lead him to the place of the old Jewish Temple. Umar was shocked to find the site covered in rubbish, as the Romans had initiated the custom of using it as a dung heap. `Umar knelt down immediately, and began to clear the area with his hands. When the Muslims saw what he was doing, they followed his example, and soon the entire area of al-Aqsa, approximately 35 acres, was cleaned up. Thereafter, commissioned the construction of a wooden mosque on the southern end of the site, exactly where the present-day mosque of Al-Aqsa stands.
`Umar was then led to the sites of the Foundation Stone by a rabbi, Ka'ab al-Ahbar, who had converted to Islam. The rock was surrounded it by a fence, and several years later an Umayyad Khalif built the Dome of the Rock over the site.
Upon taking Jerusalem, `Umar demonstrated the utmost respect for members of the other faiths living in the city. For the first time in 500 years since their expulsion from the Holy Land, Jews were allowed to practice their religion freely and live in the vicinity of Jerusalem. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, seventy Jewish families took up residence in the city. `Umar also agreed to several pacts, called the Umariyya Covenant, with the local Christian population, determining their rights and obligations under Muslim rule.
from wiki
The first crusade
While members of all three religions were living in peace and harmony in Palestine, the Christians in Europe decided to organize the 'Crusades.' Following a call by Pope Urban II on 25 November 1095 at the Council of Clermont, more than 100,000 people from all over Europe set out for Palestine to 'Free the Holy land from the Muslims' and find the fabled wealth of the East. After a long and wearying journey, and much plundering and slaughter of Muslims, they reached Jerusalem in 1099. The city fell after a siege of nearly five weeks, and the Crusaders moved in. And they carried out a savagery the like of which the world has seldom seen. All Muslims and Jews in the city were put to the sword. In the words of one historian, 'They killed all the Saracens and the Turks they found... whether male of female." Geste Francorum, or the Deeds of the Franks and the Other Pilgrims to Jerusalem, trans. Rosalind Hill, London, 1962, p. 91
One of the Crusaders, Raymond of Aguiles, boasted of this violence:
In two days, the Crusader army killed some 40,000 Muslims in the barbaric ways just described.The peace and harmony in Palestine, which had lasted since Omar, ended in terrible slaughter. The Crusaders violated all the ethical laws of Christianity, a religion of love and compassion, and spread terror, allegedly in the name of Christianity.
How can the invading army walk in peacefully and sign a treaty with the enemy? Unless the enemy had been defeated. They had surrendered after 4 months of seige and had to pay jizya, an unfair form of tax in exchange for protection. And are you sure that there was no battle before the seige? This was an invasion of the then Christian lands. This invasion is the first wave of Islamic conquests after the death of Muhammad. You don't read the history of the battle of Yamuq? The first crusade was to drive out the Invading Turks.
I haven't quote the hadiths yet, which will open the eyes of many people who are ignorant about the religion of peace.
I am puzzled why you post this article. It clearly says that the Al Aqsa mosque was erected on the ground of the Jewish Temple. To this day, the Arabs still denied it even after Jewish artifacts and remains of the Temple were unearthed around the Mosque.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:True.
Once their mind is made up, there is no way to change their thinking.
Do propaganda work also no use.
“Smearcasting: How Islamophobes Spread Fear, Bigotry and Misinformation�