When foreigners put money in Singapore, they invest in Singapore stocks and properties.
When foreigners take money out of Singapore, they sell away their stocks and properties.
What do you think the price of stocks and properties will be if they sell....
Zi Zi Bao Zhong (Take care of yourself!)
When there is less money in the banks, because foreigners have taken their money out, the banks will not be able to lend as freely.... in the US, rthe US government US$700 billion bailout is to address this problem, banks lack money to lend.
Ho Ho Ho.....
Foreigners will pull money out of our banking system if they feel (I) risks increase (2) return decreases.
In terms of increase in risks, I don't think there is such a perception yet. That is why singapore no choice but to guarantee bank deposit.
In terms of return decrease, may be. At least the singapore dollar looks to depreciate against us dollar. I think there is high chance for bank interest rate to increase during recession though.
Originally posted by ArtBoon:Foreigners will pull money out of our banking system if they feel (I) risks increase (2) return decreases.
In terms of increase in risks, I don't think there is such a perception yet. That is why singapore no choice but to guarantee bank deposit.
In terms of return decrease, may be. At least the singapore dollar looks to depreciate against us dollar. I think there is high chance for bank interest rate to increase during recession though.
Yes you think "In terms of increase in risks, I don't think there is such a perception yet" and you are not sure. Just think, you are a foreigner and you ask yourself, "Is the risk in Singapore much higher now?"
They look our press and they say "OMG all propaganda!"
They look aty our laws and say "OMG Official Secrets Act!"
"I better get out first and find out later, better put my money in a country where everything is transparent."
They look at Singapore's economy and say: "OMG the first Asian country in recession!"
SG citizens and PR can also withdraw $$ and TT to other off shore banks.
Originally posted by lionnoisy:SG citizens and PR can also withdraw $$ and TT to other off shore banks.
...and so? What is your point?
I already said I send my own money overseas to countries with a strong culture of press freedom so that I do not get caught off guard. I know that the press there is hard at work discovering any problems or potential problems, without censorship or self censorship.
Now with the internet, I can read what their press is saying.
Rich foreigners (whose deposit makes a difference unlike mine) know how our press reports and how our government works. Certainly from there they will infer how our banking system works (eg try to delay bad news and try to work quietly to solve problems).
Highly transparent system (eg US) has too much information and causes volatility.
So some people may choose not to react immediately but instead want to study the situation step by step. This is their money, so their choice.
A country in recession will affects banks' profitability. That we all know. Does that increase the banks' risk? Definitely. But all the banks in the world are affected. So rich people will pull money out of the system here, if there is a perceived higher risks of banks here relative to banks from other places. When other countries' deposit are guaranteed by government, Singapore LL must follow. Then the next question to ask is, what is our country risk relative to others?
Originally posted by ArtBoon:Rich foreigners (whose deposit makes a difference unlike mine) know how our press reports and how our government works. Certainly from there they will infer how our banking system works (eg try to delay bad news and try to work quietly to solve problems).
Highly transparent system (eg US) has too much information and causes volatility.
So some people may choose not to react immediately but instead want to study the situation step by step. This is their money, so their choice.
A country in recession will affects banks' profitability. That we all know. Does that increase the banks' risk? Definitely. But all the banks in the world are affected. So rich people will pull money out of the system here, if there is a perceived higher risks of banks here relative to banks from other places. When other countries' deposit are guaranteed by government, Singapore LL must follow. Then the next question to ask is, what is our country risk relative to others?
Who says you must react immediately when the information comes out? You can still "study the situation step by step" The problem is when the information does not come out because of propaganda and the Official Secrets Act.
If I know the risks of country A, B and C but I have no information I can trust about country D, would I be stupid to still put my money in D? Locals have no choice (or little choice) and maybe they buy the propaganda, but foreigners do not need to buy propaganda. They want unbiased information, even if biased, they want opposing information so that they can make up their own minds.
At the moment, they see Temasek selling Singapore monopolies. Unless they are idiots, why would anyone want to sell away monopolies? Sell to foreigners some more! Did the press question it? Nope. If I am a foreigner I would be scared stiff.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
When foreigners put money in Singapore, they invest in Singapore stocks and properties.
When foreigners take money out of Singapore, they sell away their stocks and properties.
What do you think the price of stocks and properties will be if they sell....
Zi Zi Bao Zhong (Take care of yourself!)
Ho ho ho, we can easily self sustain ourselves without any problem, foreigners bought our properties, we also bought foreiger property mah, it an globlise economy, you compete with the world, not with singapore alone, no problem, if needed, i can call my daddy to sell his profitland in London, ask my grandma to sell her land reit at victoria Hill in hongkong, and i can close my account from HSBC shanghai, no problem ya.
We are not afraid of foreigners pulling out their investment here, in fact, it will be the most stupid thing to do at the moment as singapore is consider one of the top 5 most stable place to invest and do business for FOREIGNER ONLY. What we afraid right now is those MNC pulling out their operation here leading to retrenchment and people out of jobs, that will completely change the scenarios from a technical recession to a Reccesion
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
At the moment, they see Temasek selling Singapore monopolies. Unless they are idiots, why would anyone want to sell away monopolies? Sell to foreigners some more! Did the press question it? Nope. If I am a foreigner I would be scared stiff.
No wonder aunty said you are lame one. She said must make u scare than u get a stiff.
I don't know why T is selling the monopolies. Maybe T needs cash urgently, maybe they feel that the current power plants have no more future, so sell to foreigner and recylcle the money in new power plant (eg LNG) investment . Maybe they have another side deal with the buyer. Like everyone else, I can only guess the reasons.
People see what they see. Foreigners who choose to continue to park their money here are comfortable with the way the banks are disclosing their risks. Otherwise, all it take is a phone call/ fax and money could go out very quickly.
When foreigners pull out investment, if there is no one to fill the gap, asset price will fall. More people will feel poorer and spend less. May not be a bad thing, if we choose a "back to basic" lifestyle. Maybe then everyone, including the government, will be more humble?
I think all foreigners are FREE to do what they want with their money. Not money stored in CP.. right?
It's a globalised world and investors can put their money with great velocity anywhere in the world at the click of a button.
But where to park their funds in this tumoultous present world?
US and Europe is in turmoil, using huge amounts of paper money being snapped up by the common people as well as companies to recapitalise their operations or kept at home.
it's like giving your money to the europeans and not see it put to good use, more so with the low interest rates now. How much more money can the western world print before it loses its own currency values?
Asia is different. Banks and financial institutions are heavily capatalised and strongly backed by fundamentals. There are trillions strongly backed in reserves to protect investors.
Currently, in asia, each nation is facing unrest, EXCEPT Singapore. Safest haven for investors money if they want protection.
But the issue lies with investors. They are redeeming their deposits from investments and banks, and keeping it at home. Do they feel safer keeping money at home in biscuit tins or in strong metallic bank vaults.
The solution and action required now is that the country and banks must reassure their customers as well as attracting more new clients, then we can all heave a sigh of relief.
It can be done, nothing is impossible, more so we are dealing with facts and figures, no crap.
Biscuit tins should be banned.
Originally posted by ArtBoon:I don't know why T is selling the monopolies. Maybe T needs cash urgently, maybe they feel that the current power plants have no more future, so sell to foreigner and recylcle the money in new power plant (eg LNG) investment . Maybe they have another side deal with the buyer. Like everyone else, I can only guess the reasons.
People see what they see. Foreigners who choose to continue to park their money here are comfortable with the way the banks are disclosing their risks. Otherwise, all it take is a phone call/ fax and money could go out very quickly.
When foreigners pull out investment, if there is no one to fill the gap, asset price will fall. More people will feel poorer and spend less. May not be a bad thing, if we choose a "back to basic" lifestyle. Maybe then everyone, including the government, will be more humble?
hahahaha.... assdogs support the asspots for only one thing, to pick up some crumps that falls from the asspots tables. Asspots behave so dishonorably (especially old chief asspot, so that he can take massive amounts of public money for himself, his family and his cronies) and they will sooner tax silliporeans to death than to "choose a "back to basic" lifestyle" and "be more humble"
Originally posted by likedatosocan:I think all foreigners are FREE to do what they want with their money. Not money stored in CP.. right?
CPF? and because they are free, they can escape unlike silliporeans... without big unheavals to their lives.
Because of the asspots' policies, when they escape, silliporeans suffer...
I think Aisan institutions could have bought a lot of the papers structured by their western counterparts.
How the revaluation of those papers will affect the books of the banks here is something that we will be seeing soon, because Asian institutions culturally like to delay bad news...
Originally posted by xtreyier:It's a globalised world and investors can put their money with great velocity anywhere in the world at the click of a button.
But where to park their funds in this tumoultous present world?
US and Europe is in turmoil, using huge amounts of paper money being snapped up by the common people as well as companies to recapitalise their operations or kept at home.
it's like giving your money to the europeans and not see it put to good use, more so with the low interest rates now. How much more money can the western world print before it loses its own currency values?
Asia is different. Banks and financial institutions are heavily capatalised and strongly backed by fundamentals. There are trillions strongly backed in reserves to protect investors.
Currently, in asia, each nation is facing unrest, EXCEPT Singapore. Safest haven for investors money if they want protection.
But the issue lies with investors. They are redeeming their deposits from investments and banks, and keeping it at home. Do they feel safer keeping money at home in biscuit tins or in strong metallic bank vaults.
The solution and action required now is that the country and banks must reassure their customers as well as attracting more new clients, then we can all heave a sigh of relief.
It can be done, nothing is impossible, more so we are dealing with facts and figures, no crap.
Biscuit tins should be banned.
What facts and what figures when you do not have a free press and you have the Official Secrets Act... and you have an old asspot selling propaganda, without the press showing him their middle finger when he said: "Singapore's economy will be fine despite the slowing global economy" and promptly announce a recession a couple of months later.
Originally posted by ArtBoon:I think Aisan institutions could have bought a lot of the papers structured by their western counterparts.
How the revaluation of those papers will affect the books of the banks here is something that we will be seeing soon, because Asian institutions culturally like to delay bad news...
...you might never know... which is why at least some, a big percentage, of my money is overseas... in countries with a free press and with checks and balances, overseeing WTF the government is doing and how they are managing the country's funds.
I don't have much money to send overseas anyway so will just leave it with the banks here. I am placing my hope in the government deposit guarantee . Definitely the banks here will try as much as possible to solve/hide/massage their problems but some which cannot be contained will eventually spill out, I believe.... Banks are tightening lending etc so I see this as they probably think the quality of their assets are going to deterioriate...
Originally posted by ArtBoon:I don't have much money to send overseas anyway so will just leave it with the banks here. I am placing my hope in the government deposit guarantee . Definitely the banks here will try as much as possible to solve/hide/massage their problems but some which cannot be contained will eventually spill out, I believe.... Banks are tightening lending etc so I see this as they probably think the quality of their assets are going to deterioriate...
gahmen guarantee up to 2010 only. i wonder why.....
Originally posted by ArtBoon:I don't have much money to send overseas anyway so will just leave it with the banks here. I am placing my hope in the government deposit guarantee . Definitely the banks here will try as much as possible to solve/hide/massage their problems but some which cannot be contained will eventually spill out, I believe.... Banks are tightening lending etc so I see this as they probably think the quality of their assets are going to deterioriate...
The problem is not with you, the Singaporean. That is why the thread topic is:
If that is true and "foreigners pulling money out of Singapore banks"
And if anyone is foolish enough to believe that Singapore will face a property bubble if, and only if foriegners pull out, then he/she must be an idiot being manipulated by a cunning neanderthal hoping to buy the property at fire sale prices now and profiting it later when sanity returns.
Singapore is a financial hub but a small island and attracts a lot of global folks as well as a booming population. Property prices may dipped 5-10% in this current climate, but burst? Laughable!
Secondly, asia is not without resources. It's padi fields alone could feed the whole world several times over and Singapore is an entreport where such products are exported to the western world.
They may live without oil or tin but they cannot live without food. Thus Asia can whether the storm as long as we remain calm and sane, and help boost domestic demand and spending while US and Europe burn, a conflageration created by their greedy neanderthals there.
The problem is, without a free press that asks hard hitting questions of the ministers and with the official secrets act there, people are not sure and if do not have much money, it is not important to you, but if you have money (at least if you own stocks and properties) you need to know in order to make the correct decisions.
What if you still owe massive amounts of mortgage on your property? What then? What decision should you make? How can you make them when the information is not coming out or only propaganda comes out? Or comes out after the fact?
So you see, the foreigners can play safe, they can escape without needing to know, just escape first, but Singaporeans? How to escape? What if you make a wrong decision?You live here, you have to suffer the consequences while the foreigner is safely home. Without the information, the foreigner can escape but the Singaporean dies (without knowing the true cause of his death).
You are right. I missed the topic.
I guess it goes back what I was trying to say earlier.
To the foreigner, whether to pull the fund or not would depend on her assessment of the bank's risk and the reward of keeping singapore dollar based asset.
The key, in my view, is the relative risk/reward compared to other countries.
Stock price is falling all over the world. Bank risk is increasing all over the world.
So the relativity here is hard to say.
But if we look at 2 parameter here, the singapore dollar and property price, then my view is:
singapore dollar looks to soften - since we need export to drive economy and government has no choice here...
property - hmm very controversial topic. I'd like to say singapore price has peaked. but that is because my perspective on this topic is very biased...