Originally posted by redDUST:gahmen guarantee up to 2010 only. i wonder why.....
hehehe... they hope that after that, there is a recovery.... instead of a total collapse... if total collapse, they rather take the money and run than to pay the people....
Originally posted by ArtBoon:You are right. I missed the topic.
I guess it goes back what I was trying to say earlier.
To the foreigner, whether to pull the fund or not would depend on her assessment of the bank's risk and the reward of keeping singapore dollar based asset.
The key, in my view, is the relative risk/reward compared to other countries.
Stock price is falling all over the world. Bank risk is increasing all over the world.
So the relativity here is hard to say.
But if we look at 2 parameter here, the singapore dollar and property price, then my view is:
singapore dollar looks to soften - since we need export to drive economy and government has no choice here...
property - hmm very controversial topic. I'd like to say singapore price has peaked. but that is because my perspective on this topic is very biased...
"To the foreigner, whether to pull the fund or not would depend on her assessment of the bank's risk and the reward of keeping singapore dollar based asset."
...and how do you expect them to do that when all they see is propaganda and a censored and self-censored press?
When not sure, run! That is the motto of good investment. How can they be sure when they have no good information?
They will run and instead of solving the problem at its core, a briddled press and an unaccountable government, the despots provide guarantee like that is the problem.
What I am saying that, for them to announce that they are providing guarantees, shows that "foreigners pulling money out of Singapore banks"
It was a rhetorical question.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Send money to Japan and even Thailand is better because of the freee press there and you won't get surprises because everything is out in the open.
yup, those are great places..... government change every few months....
.... but wait a minute.... Thailand???? didn't you had some failed business there???
"foreigners ARE pulling money out of Singapore banks"
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
yup, those are great places..... government change every few months....
.... but wait a minute.... Thailand???? didn't you had some failed business there???
yes, in your delusional mind... hahaha....
... and you are right (unknown to yourself, being deep in delusions) those are indeed great places, great countries that are strong (with weak governments), that can survive with no government (just the civil service and national instituitions will do), unlike other places that have strong despots bent on taking as much public money as possible from the weak country.
For investment, yes I think most seasoned guys will run when there is no good information.
Thought we are talking about pulling money (ie deposit) out of Singapore bank. So I suppose if foreigner see a government guarantee now, with bank risks relatively not increasing compared to banks in other countries (for now), not necessarilly pulling funds at this point in time?
I suppose the moment they see our banks start reporting losses (if "problems" cannot be contained), this will affect the confidence. So I am sure the banks are all trying their best to address problems with their book now.
Originally posted by ArtBoon:For investment, yes I think most seasoned guys will run when there is no good information.
Thought we are talking about pulling money (ie deposit) out of Singapore bank. So I suppose if foreigner see a government guarantee now, with bank risks relatively not increasing compared to banks in other countries (for now), not necessarilly pulling funds at this point in time?
I suppose the moment they see our banks start reporting losses (if "problems" cannot be contained), this will affect the confidence. So I am sure the banks are all trying their best to address problems with their book now.
What I am arguing is that the foreigners have already pulled massive amounts of money out, forcing the despots to come up with this "solution".
The problem is the lack of a free press and unaccountable government and that is why there is massive out flow of international funds.
The problem is not "no government guarantees" as the despots would have you believe.
So the first thing, Money has already gone out, so much of it that the despots have to act.
The second thing, This is a wrong solution to a different problem.
What this means is, dire consequences for the country because this country is run by despots.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
What I am arguing is that the foreigners have already pulled massive amounts of money out, forcing the despots to come up with this "solution".
The problem is the lack of a free press and unaccountable government and that is why there is massive out flow of international funds.
The problem is not "no government guarantees" as the despots would have you believe.
So the first thing, Money has already gone out, so much of it that the despots have to act.
The second thing, This is a wrong solution to a different problem.
What this means is, dire consequences for the country because this country is run by despots.
then whats policies u implementing if u r the gahmen then?
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:yes, in your delusional mind... hahaha....
... and you are right (unknown to yourself, being deep in delusions) those are indeed great places, great countries that are strong (with weak governments), that can survive with no government (just the civil service and national instituitions will do), unlike other places that have strong despots bent on taking as much public money as possible from the weak country.
yeah, we live in such a lousy and weak country... tsk tsk...
http://www.sedb.com/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html
the data in this index is taken from global ranking institutions....
Japan ranking:
http://www.jref.com/society/japan_world_ranking.shtml
Thailand corruption ranking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_rankings_of_Thailand
http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table
yup.... i am quite sure you bucks (or bahts) are quite save in Thailand....
Originally posted by Rednano:
then whats policies u implementing if u r the gahmen then?
errrr... he will CURSE the oppositions.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
What I am arguing is that the foreigners have already pulled massive amounts of money out, forcing the despots to come up with this "solution".
this one is out of your delusional mind or for a change... you have some hard evidence?
So what if a few foriegners or even ALL of them get spooked and dump their properties? We locals are more than glad to pick up the slack and sell it to them at a higher price when their sanity returns. We aint poor villagers that our forefathers were....hahahah!
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
errrr... he will CURSE the oppositions.
so he will just curse the oppositions and no solutions at all too?
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Let the old despot do what he has to do as an old despot, persecuting Dr Chee Soon Juan and people like Dr Francis T Seow
We do what we have to do and that is, to curse evil doers that persecute others to stay in power instead of letting the people choose.
So altogether now... damned dishonorable public money grabbing nepotistic........
all he can do is curse..... and ask for people to contribute money to CSJ, yet he is an eunuch that is too afraid to stand behind the opposition. so all he does is curse....
Originally posted by Rednano:
so he will just curse the oppositions and no solutions at all too?
I am actually very interested to find out the ability of the locals to pick up the slack.
For most of people like myself who relies on salary etc, with the existing burden on mortgage, car loan etc, I wonder how I would be able to pick up slack.
So what if a few foriegners or even ALL of them get spooked and dump their properties? We locals are more than glad to pick up the slack and sell it to them at a higher price when their sanity returns. We aint poor villagers that our forefathers were....hahahah!
how much property are you buying?
Originally posted by ArtBoon:I am actually very interested to find out the ability of the locals to pick up the slack.
For most of people like myself who relies on salary etc, with the existing burden on mortgage, car loan etc, I wonder how I would be able to pick up slack.
.... that is just delusionals talking.... locals pick up slack... dont make my toes laugh...
then whats policies u implementing if u r the gahmen then?
singapore should be the first country to guarantee deposits instead of waiting for HK to do so first.
aint the MAS and tharma not too long ago annoucing not to guarantee deposits beyond 20k. isnt it slap in the own face after much LPPL.
heil hitler
Originally posted by reyes:how much property are you buying?
I had been eyeing a penthouse at East Coast for some time, costing around $3.5million. If the foreigner is willing to sell at $2million, give me his lawyer's number and I will deal.
Don't expect me to be charitable, after all, if he is foolish to let go at this price just to put the money in a tin box, too bad.
Unless of course, he can prove that his business had collapse and needs the money to pay his singaporean workers, and i will up the figures.
Joke aside, our Han chinese forefathers know what is discrimination and tyranny - bullied by Manchus, had our lands and books burned by Mao, brothers' head lopped off by the japs, treated like dogs by the colonnial western cowards.
Our Indian forefathers knew too what it was like too - bullied by a caste system and robbed by colonnial powers, treated like slaves.
Our Malay forefathers didnt had it any better - ruled by despotic Majahapit kings as serfs and equally treated as dogs by colonnial masters.
But together, they came to this piece of rock called Singapore and made it home. Despite their sufferings, they worked hard, together as one, to build what we had enjoyed yesterday. In the comfort of today, it is easy to forget the sweat of our forefathers.
I didn't make Singapore successful. MM Lee didnt make Singapore. It was your forefather, the hard work by our multi-racial forefathers whose resilience, dynamism, flexibility and courage in the face of wars and suffering, to make this rock outcrop a home for us all, sheltered from the multi-faceted problematic world.
It would be a shame if we let our country rot.
Many had claimed they will set aside their emotions and help Singapore in times of crisis, even those who left our shores or those who shirked from their NS duties.
Now our country is in crisis. Who will help save our countries if not ourselves? Or should we be partisan, turn traitor and harm all just because of our own contempt for some individuals?
This crisis calls not for arms or to kill any human being. Our enemy is fear itself. Irrational and herd instincts. All it needs for all to survive is to continue one's way of life - save and spend, though less frivolously.
The alternative would be to see our savings wipe out in months, the middle class a little later and the rich would have to spend vast sums to protect themselves and their loved ones, as what Indonesian rich had to do during their crisis in the late 90s.
To Artboon:-
You are looking at the crisis from your own perspective. But not everyone would be in the similar financial situation as you. There are 3.2million Singaporeans. There are many more rich people than Ng Teng Fong, quietly living beside us, wearing bermudas and slippers.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
...and so? What is your point?
I already said I send my own money overseas to countries with a strong culture of press freedom so that I do not get caught off guard. I know that the press there is hard at work discovering any problems or potential problems, without censorship or self censorship.
Now with the internet, I can read what their press is saying.
which are the countries with strong culture of press freedom? Taiwan or USA?
Mellanie Hewlitt
Sg_Review
17 Oct 2008
Reason For PAP/MAS Policy Change?
Its nice to know that after Hong Kong and Australia initiated guarantee measures, the Singapore PAP Govt has risen to follow in the footsteps and also issue guarantees on deposits in banks licenced by the MAS.
Previously, this was a government that had stoutly implemented a miserly capp SGD25,000/- for such guarantees and also given little support to citizens in these difficult times, apart from raising electricity prices, extending ERP gantries and increasing the salaries of its million dollar ministers.
So it really begets ths question; Why the sudden magnanimous change of heart? Are we see signs of a more caring and humane PAP?
Just so every one is under no false illusions, the latest move by the MAS is not to look after the plight of the average man on the street. As every seasoned banker knows, this was a strategic move to halt the flight of capital to other safe haven countries like Australia.
Countries who implemented such guarantees early can still be credited with having the noble intention to safe-guard the savings of the common folks. However, this is not the case for the PAP Government who was only prodded from its state of lethargy to follow sjuite only to prevent what would have been a migration of billions of dollars of deposits and AUMs (Assets Under Management) of the affluent and rich depositers to other private banking accounts maintained offshore in safe havens.
The plight of the common average joe (who has 20-30k) is of little relevance. But as the good news is that the average depositer and common man still benefits from the policy change notwithstanding the real reasons behind the change.
This is the tme to curse the old damned despot for his arrogance and treatment of dissidents and opposition like he knows best.
What the phark, he is even no match for me. I have been warning people about the economy in this forum since July 2007, and renewed my warning this June 2008.
see: http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/320112
The old damned despot with a wife that cannot die a peaceful death, and a son with cancer of the anus said, lied, fooled, whatever you will that:
“14 July 2008
Lee Kuan Yew on Friday said Singapore's economy will be fine despite the slowing global economy. "
Either he lied, fooled or is just a damned idiot for saying that.
...and yet he has the gumption to persecute dissdents and opposition trying to make this a better place while he takes massive amounts of public money and put his relatives and cronies in charge of the reserves losing billions supporting foreign banks.
His assdogs will once again tell you to forgive them for their "honest mistakes" and the only mistake is that silliporeans trusted dishonorable people instead of cursing them.
Dishonorable people must be damned and cursed until their grandchildren suffer from cancer and or until they step down and stop taking massive amounts of public money for themselves.
Originally posted by googoomuck:Mellanie Hewlitt
Sg_Review
17 Oct 2008
Reason For PAP/MAS Policy Change?
Its nice to know that after Hong Kong and Australia initiated guarantee measures, the Singapore PAP Govt has risen to follow in the footsteps and also issue guarantees on deposits in banks licenced by the MAS.
Previously, this was a government that had stoutly implemented a miserly capp SGD25,000/- for such guarantees and also given little support to citizens in these difficult times, apart from raising electricity prices, extending ERP gantries and increasing the salaries of its million dollar ministers.
So it really begets ths question; Why the sudden magnanimous change of heart? Are we see signs of a more caring and humane PAP?
Just so every one is under no false illusions, the latest move by the MAS is not to look after the plight of the average man on the street. As every seasoned banker knows, this was a strategic move to halt the flight of capital to other safe haven countries like Australia.
Countries who implemented such guarantees early can still be credited with having the noble intention to safe-guard the savings of the common folks. However, this is not the case for the PAP Government who was only prodded from its state of lethargy to follow sjuite only to prevent what would have been a migration of billions of dollars of deposits and AUMs (Assets Under Management) of the affluent and rich depositers to other private banking accounts maintained offshore in safe havens.
The plight of the common average joe (who has 20-30k) is of little relevance. But as the good news is that the average depositer and common man still benefits from the policy change notwithstanding the real reasons behind the change.
Not just "preventing"; these damned despots are too stupid to do prevention. They were forced because of the massive amounts of money flowing out of this unfree press, Official Secrets Acts country the first in Asia to go into recession.
......................................