thats the spirit.. simply put, malaysia needs singapore and singapore needs malaysia..Originally posted by Iknowu:hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
k...i am just very super curious, why are there so many anti m'sian and anti s'porean ideas in here? can't we leave the politics aside and treat each other as normal people that we are? why let the nationalities blind us? i'll say... s'pore and s'poreans ain't bad at all, but so is m'sia and m'sians. all alike.
leave the politics. nothing is ever black and white in politics. all grey... nothing clear. if you ever wanted to review politics, study history. its the best picture you can get. not following current issues. its all drama and farce,you'll get so much headache, you dunno hu to believe.propaganda and misleading lies are everywhere, so let these ppl dig there own graves. y are we also getting involved in these things that merely waste our time?
me.... M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!!

try saying that to your Dr Mat and his gang of gangsters.Originally posted by Iknowu:patriotic does not mean slamming others. it means loving your country by trying your best to bring up your country, not by bringing down others.[/quote]
Do yourself a favour and ask a simple question about yourself.Originally posted by Iknowu:hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!!

Originally posted by Iknowu:the anti m'sia ideas were moderate until some of them came along and started flaming... thats when u get posts on body parts, what they intend to use them for and what they think we ought to do with ours... u get the idea...
hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
k...i am just very super curious, why are there so many anti m'sian and anti s'porean ideas in here?
can't we leave the politics aside and treat each other as normal people that we are? why let the nationalities blind us? i'll say... s'pore and s'poreans ain't bad at all, but so is m'sia and m'sians. all alike.no we're not alike... why pretend? why lie to ourselves? admitting that there is diversity is the first step to accepting people for who they are instead of forcing them into compromises.
leave the politics. nothing is ever black and white in politics. all grey... nothing clear. if you ever wanted to review politics, study history. its the best picture you can get. not following current issues. its all drama and farce,you'll get so much headache, you dunno hu to believe.propaganda and misleading lies are everywhere, so let these ppl dig there own graves. y are we also getting involved in these things that merely waste our time?and how do u know that some of us do not actually possess degrees or M.A in hisory, political science, sociology or economics? and so what if many here do not possess excellent academic credentials? does that make them any less capable of commenting on current affairs?
thats not life... thats merely a result of your own confusion.
me.... M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!!
Originally posted by CX:Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....
thats not life... thats merely a result of your own confusion.
[b]nationality and citizenship are by definition, exclusive.
nationality and citizenship implies that u have subscribed to a fixed set of values which the nation believes in.
and since m'sia and Sg basically has different ideas concerning the issue of citizenship, there is no such thing as "m'sian at heart, sg in attitude".
u have that feeling because u are apathetic and ignorant, not because u're enlightened.
[/b]
Originally posted by Devil1976:Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....
A policeman by definition doesn't mean that he can't commit a crime.... Likewise WISE man by definition doesn't mean that one would not connect silly mistakes....?
You can be a man, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't understand how a woman feel... Though probably not exactly....
To: awestuckOriginally posted by awestruck:To: Gun
Patriotism is a great thing but you really should lighten up a bit...
To: CX
You too...
____________________________________________________Originally posted by Iknowu:patriotic does not mean slamming others. it means loving your country by trying your best to bring up your country, not by bringing down others.[/quote]
Originally posted by Devil1976:gee whiz... now, we are talking about norms, not exceptions. my opinion is the opposite of yours... one accepts the privileges and obligations of citizenship. not everyone agrees wholeheartedly, but are u implying that resentment and disgust at the pink IC is the norm while loyalty and patriotism is the exception?
Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....
A policeman by definition doesn't mean that he can't commit a crime.... Likewise WISE man by definition doesn't mean that one would not connect silly mistakes....?a policeman is trained to uphold the law and that, by definition, means that they are not expected to do the opposite while in the course of duty. if policemen committed crimes habitually, then why do we have them for? black sheep exists everywhere. but we naturally do not breed white sheep to give black wool...
You can be a man, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't understand how a woman feel... Though probably not exactly....i'm not mel gibson. i've been trying and i STILL do not know what women wants and least of all, how women feel... i believe in doing my best and leaving the rest to shrinks and other women... the same way i do what i can for myself and my country while leaving what i cannot yet change in the hands of policemen and wise men.
Originally posted by Gun:____________________________________________________
To: awestuck
I'll re-emphasized what Deputy Prime Minister Dr Tony Tan had said on 20 Feb in parliament
"[b]It is most unfortunate that the Malaysian government has chosen to exploit this tragic accident. It can only serve to stir up emotions and make it more difficult to find an amicable settlement of the issue.
Pedra Branca is Singapore's territory and the RSN will continue to safeguard Singapore' sovereignty and integrity. The RSN will continue to patrol the territorial waters off Pedra Branca."
And mind you, these are official statements made in Singapore's highest political institution, unlike what some Malaysian politicians who prefer to make "war" speeches at press conferences, media reports or during other non-related domestic functions.
[/b]
so we cant say our stand on tis forum anymore?Originally posted by awestruck:To: Gun
I have no idea who u are in real life. You could be a politician who can actually do something about this whole mess. I just think that normal citizens getting all angry about things that they quite frankly have no power over is just bad for health... not to mention all that anger you might be feeling towards Malaysians in general cant be a good thing either. I think i will stand with my original very humble suggestion that both you and cx lighten up
Originally posted by CX:
gee whiz... now, we are talking about norms, not exceptions. my opinion is the opposite of yours... one accepts the privileges and obligations of citizenship. not everyone agrees wholeheartedly, but are u implying that resentment and disgust at the pink IC is the norm while loyalty and patriotism is the exception?
By term "one accepts privileges and obligations of citizenship'....
I would like to express that... Anyone in their right frame of mind and without extreme hostility towards another would ACCEPT privileges of ANY TYPE.....
OBLIGATIONS of citizenship in other words are LAWs.... I think we probably won't have much of a choice as to whether we wanna accept it or not...?
Nope... I did not mention anything about 'resentment and disgust at the pink IC as a norm and loyalty & patriotism is the exception'... Just clarifying that 'by definitions' does not necessarily make one adhere to a set of values naturally....
Take your example?
A fellow citizen of a country would naturally be expected to contribute and think in terms of the welfare of the country... Hence, patriotism and loyalty... Resentment and disgust would be seem as contradictary to that.... YET, in SIngapore people are COMPLAINING... Its just that Singapore government practise an IRON FIST over their people and RIOTs are ILLEGAL... BUT that doesn't mean that people don't feel disgust or resentment does it...?
And coming to patriotism and loyalty again.... WHO can actually read through a person's mind and heart to determine that..? For all we know we can write and say all we want.... But ACTION should speak louder than words at the appropriate time.... What if your government turn AGAINST you...? Is just out to MAKE USE of you...? (I'm not saying Singapore lah... I'm just saying for example... ANY country...) Would you still practise your LOYALTY and PATRIOTISM when ALL turn AGAINST you...? Maybe YOU might...? But surely you won't think of it as a DEFINITION for ALL OTHERS....?
a policeman is trained to uphold the law and that, by definition, means that they are not expected to do the opposite while in the course of duty. if policemen committed crimes habitually, then why do we have them for? black sheep exists everywhere. but we naturally do not breed white sheep to give black wool...
REALITY could be DEEPER than what you SEE, THINK and BELIEVEs...?
MAN by definition is not infallible. WISE men merely have the recognised ability to not commit silly mistakes as often as the average man. again, it is the question of general norm as opposed to exceptions.
Is it...? How about if I tell you MANY wise men actually made ALOT more SILLY MISTAKES than the average guy to become WHO they are today...?
i'm not mel gibson. i've been trying and i STILL do not know what women wants and least of all, how women feel... i believe in doing my best and leaving the rest to shrinks and other women... the same way i do what i can for myself and my country while leaving what i cannot yet change in the hands of policemen and wise men.
u may believe that belong to more than one community and have more than one identity (ethnic, social, cultural, religious, political) but u only have ONE nationality because Sg does not recognise dual-citizenship. that's a fact. and this civic citizenship over-rides all your other identities and commands your loyalty whether u like it or not. u can grumble and gripe and cuss and swear, but there is essentially nothing u can do to change that unless well...
the choice is yours to drop it should u find another place willing to extend u their hospitality... in which case u would be expected to subscribe to THEIR rules... u'll just be swapping one set of tyrants for another...
What can I say...? I can only say I'm PROUD to have a FELLOW SINGAPOREAN like you...
But there're ways which PATRIOTISM & LOYALTY could be practised... Doing it the HARSH way might just make everyone SUFFER for it...?