why all this hatred?!??!
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hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
k...i am just very super curious, why are there so many anti m'sian and anti s'porean ideas in here? can't we leave the politics aside and treat each other as normal people that we are? why let the nationalities blind us? i'll say... s'pore and s'poreans ain't bad at all, but so is m'sia and m'sians. all alike.
leave the politics. nothing is ever black and white in politics. all grey... nothing clear. if you ever wanted to review politics, study history. its the best picture you can get. not following current issues. its all drama and farce,you'll get so much headache, you dunno hu to believe.propaganda and misleading lies are everywhere, so let these ppl dig there own graves. y are we also getting involved in these things that merely waste our time?
me.... M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!! -
thats the spirit.. simply put, malaysia needs singapore and singapore needs malaysia..Originally posted by Iknowu:hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
k...i am just very super curious, why are there so many anti m'sian and anti s'porean ideas in here? can't we leave the politics aside and treat each other as normal people that we are? why let the nationalities blind us? i'll say... s'pore and s'poreans ain't bad at all, but so is m'sia and m'sians. all alike.
leave the politics. nothing is ever black and white in politics. all grey... nothing clear. if you ever wanted to review politics, study history. its the best picture you can get. not following current issues. its all drama and farce,you'll get so much headache, you dunno hu to believe.propaganda and misleading lies are everywhere, so let these ppl dig there own graves. y are we also getting involved in these things that merely waste our time?
me.... M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!! -
because we are patriotic! and this is a speaker corner for politics
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Yah, i hope all these will stop..
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Just some crazy screw-loosed fellow came in post a sentence or two that slam each others' country. In general, most are peace loving citizens of Sg and Malaysia.
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patriotic does not mean slamming others. it means loving your country by trying your best to bring up your country, not by bringing down others.[/quote]
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try saying that to your Dr Mat and his gang of gangsters.Originally posted by Iknowu:patriotic does not mean slamming others. it means loving your country by trying your best to bring up your country, not by bringing down others.[/quote]
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Do yourself a favour and ask a simple question about yourself.Originally posted by Iknowu:hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!!
Why are you taking up acedemic courses in Singapore in the 1st place ?
Your answer can save you and us lotsa time in explainining why
you have a half-baked mentality of "a Malaysian heart and a
Singaporean att"
And let me add that if trading words of "war" really turns into
a one, I'd rather have a clear mind of who I am than
getting confused about which side to fight for cos you gonna killed
very quickly if you don't know which sides you stand on. -
fierce.
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aiyah who wans to be like tat, both are neighbours, of cos nice nice everybody happy, but somewhere along the lines, something went w rong, you cant blame people who speak against Malaysia or vice versa, the media is playing it up, maybe truth, maybe half truth we dun noe, but as people said, no flames without fire, so as long all shaddap on sensitive issues, then ok.
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Originally posted by Iknowu:
the anti m'sia ideas were moderate until some of them came along and started flaming... thats when u get posts on body parts, what they intend to use them for and what they think we ought to do with ours... u get the idea...
hi. just to clear the air, i 'm a m'sian studying in s'pore.
k...i am just very super curious, why are there so many anti m'sian and anti s'porean ideas in here?
i think the stupid part is when some childish sg individuals actually REPLIED to them... (me inclusive ) thats when it REALLY gets messy...can't we leave the politics aside and treat each other as normal people that we are? why let the nationalities blind us? i'll say... s'pore and s'poreans ain't bad at all, but so is m'sia and m'sians. all alike.
no we're not alike... why pretend? why lie to ourselves? admitting that there is diversity is the first step to accepting people for who they are instead of forcing them into compromises.
sg and m'sia went through different developmental paradigms and we both have different political system, economic and social distinctiveness.
u can't pretend that ah beng who lives in pasir ris shares similar beliefs with ah seng who lives in johor jaya... in all likelihood, they both think and believe in different things because of their different background and life experiences.leave the politics. nothing is ever black and white in politics. all grey... nothing clear. if you ever wanted to review politics, study history. its the best picture you can get. not following current issues. its all drama and farce,you'll get so much headache, you dunno hu to believe.propaganda and misleading lies are everywhere, so let these ppl dig there own graves. y are we also getting involved in these things that merely waste our time?
and how do u know that some of us do not actually possess degrees or M.A in hisory, political science, sociology or economics? and so what if many here do not possess excellent academic credentials? does that make them any less capable of commenting on current affairs?
here, as long as u post sensible things, people will listen and remark / reply.
and since many things today are so unclear, the more reason it ought to be addressed in open discussion so that more than one view can be presented. propaganda only works when people WANT to believe and do not wish to address the possibility that it might not be true.
thats not life... thats merely a result of your own confusion.
me.... M'sian at heart, s'porean in attitude. This is the LIFE!!!!
nationality and citizenship are by definition, exclusive.
nationality and citizenship implies that u have subscribed to a fixed set of values which the nation believes in.
and since m'sia and Sg basically has different ideas concerning the issue of citizenship, there is no such thing as "m'sian at heart, sg in attitude".
u have that feeling because u are apathetic and ignorant, not because u're enlightened. -
Originally posted by CX:
Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....
thats not life... thats merely a result of your own confusion.
[b]nationality and citizenship are by definition, exclusive.
nationality and citizenship implies that u have subscribed to a fixed set of values which the nation believes in.
and since m'sia and Sg basically has different ideas concerning the issue of citizenship, there is no such thing as "m'sian at heart, sg in attitude".
u have that feeling because u are apathetic and ignorant, not because u're enlightened.
[/b]
A policeman by definition doesn't mean that he can't commit a crime.... Likewise WISE man by definition doesn't mean that one would not connect silly mistakes....?
You can be a man, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't understand how a woman feel... Though probably not exactly.... -
actually i personally dun harbour any anti-malaysian feelings( i believe it is the same for every singaporeans here ). But it is the malaysian govt which i dislike abt. I dun want to repeat how much trouble the malaysian govt had given us , if u want , u can visit the other thread to view it.
Personally i disagree on both sides scolding vulgurs jus because of nationality , but however very often in the heat of moment , curses are exchanged. That is very human to do it......i scold u , u scold mi.....simple... -
Originally posted by Devil1976:Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....
A policeman by definition doesn't mean that he can't commit a crime.... Likewise WISE man by definition doesn't mean that one would not connect silly mistakes....?
You can be a man, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't understand how a woman feel... Though probably not exactly....
that's Life, like it or not. We all have two eyes, one nose and a mouth. It's just that we live in different places only mah. -
Finally proof that there are people that have some sense left!!
To: Gun
Patriotism is a great thing but you really should lighten up a bit...
To: CX
You too... -
To: awestuckOriginally posted by awestruck:To: Gun
Patriotism is a great thing but you really should lighten up a bit...
To: CX
You too...
On the contrary, I am a pretty easy going person myself. But when comes to basic stuff like self-respect and the principle of mutual standoff, I certainly wouldn't past it off lightly. A little reading for you before you start passing judgement on other forumers
1) Right after the RSS Courageous tragedy, Malaysia stepped up intrusions around Pedra Branca. (5 reported intrusions within1 wk of Jan)
2) Malaysia ignored a 1994 signed agreement stating that what happens at the island has little bearing on the court's final judgement, hence status-quote the for last 160 yrs of Singapore's
ownership of the island until ICJ's verdict.
3) Malaysia tried to exploit the collision to advance its 1979 claim on the island by sending protest notes to Singapore claiming
that RSS Courageous was in Malaysian waters when the accident
happened.
4) Just 1 day after the search for the body of missing Singapore Navy servicewoman 2nd Sergeant Chua Bee Lin was called off, the Malaysian government sent a third party diplomatic note to Singapore protesting Singapore's "intrusion into Malaysian water "during the accident.
5) Malaysia begun its own "investigations" into the incident, and it has even sent over some forms for the commander of the RSS Courageous to fill up and submit.
If you aren't pissed, I'd suggest you have a readup a little more
on Malaysia's brotherly behavour of the last 12 months.
I'll re-emphasized what Deputy Prime Minister Dr Tony Tan had said on 20 Feb in parliament
"It is most unfortunate that the Malaysian government has chosen to exploit this tragic accident. It can only serve to stir up emotions and make it more difficult to find an amicable settlement of the issue.
Pedra Branca is Singapore's territory and the RSN will continue to safeguard Singapore' sovereignty and integrity. The RSN will continue to patrol the territorial waters off Pedra Branca."
And mind you, these are official statements made in Singapore's highest political institution, unlike what some Malaysian politicians who prefer to make "war" speeches at press conferences, media reports or during other non-related domestic functions. -
sumtimes...diplomatic jus wun work...
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You can always negotiate after firing a few 75mm shells to remind them of your intent. I've heard of politicans lying as soon as they open their mouth, but here it's prehaps the first time you hear nothing but nonsense immediately. It's a wonder they still have a job.
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____________________________________________________Originally posted by Iknowu:patriotic does not mean slamming others. it means loving your country by trying your best to bring up your country, not by bringing down others.[/quote]
Well said, but it will be good if more like you speak louder, so that the Malaysian Political Leaders can hear this well thought out statement.
If you have lived in Singapore, and attend school here, you must have read the Singapore newspapers, and compare the printed "zilch" response from the Singaporean Political Leaders in the local Straits Times, to all the daily tirades of false lies, provocations, criticisms from the Malaysian Politicians. -
Originally posted by Devil1976:
gee whiz... now, we are talking about norms, not exceptions. my opinion is the opposite of yours... one accepts the privileges and obligations of citizenship. not everyone agrees wholeheartedly, but are u implying that resentment and disgust at the pink IC is the norm while loyalty and patriotism is the exception?
Sorry... But in my humble opinion, that's LIFE.... Nationality and citizenship are by definition.... They don't naturally imply that one has already subscribed to a certain set of values in which a nation believes in.... Though one MIGHT be....A policeman by definition doesn't mean that he can't commit a crime.... Likewise WISE man by definition doesn't mean that one would not connect silly mistakes....?
a policeman is trained to uphold the law and that, by definition, means that they are not expected to do the opposite while in the course of duty. if policemen committed crimes habitually, then why do we have them for? black sheep exists everywhere. but we naturally do not breed white sheep to give black wool...
MAN by definition is not infallible. WISE men merely have the recognised ability to not commit silly mistakes as often as the average man. again, it is the question of general norm as opposed to exceptions.You can be a man, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't understand how a woman feel... Though probably not exactly....
i'm not mel gibson. i've been trying and i STILL do not know what women wants and least of all, how women feel... i believe in doing my best and leaving the rest to shrinks and other women... the same way i do what i can for myself and my country while leaving what i cannot yet change in the hands of policemen and wise men.
u may believe that belong to more than one community and have more than one identity (ethnic, social, cultural, religious, political) but u only have ONE nationality because Sg does not recognise dual-citizenship. that's a fact. and this civic citizenship over-rides all your other identities and commands your loyalty whether u like it or not. u can grumble and gripe and cuss and swear, but there is essentially nothing u can do to change that unless well...
the choice is yours to drop it should u find another place willing to extend u their hospitality... in which case u would be expected to subscribe to THEIR rules... u'll just be swapping one set of tyrants for another... -
Originally posted by Gun:
____________________________________________________
To: awestuck
I'll re-emphasized what Deputy Prime Minister Dr Tony Tan had said on 20 Feb in parliament
"[b]It is most unfortunate that the Malaysian government has chosen to exploit this tragic accident. It can only serve to stir up emotions and make it more difficult to find an amicable settlement of the issue.
Pedra Branca is Singapore's territory and the RSN will continue to safeguard Singapore' sovereignty and integrity. The RSN will continue to patrol the territorial waters off Pedra Branca."
And mind you, these are official statements made in Singapore's highest political institution, unlike what some Malaysian politicians who prefer to make "war" speeches at press conferences, media reports or during other non-related domestic functions.
[/b]
What can you expect from publicity starved actors, who try to behave as leaders of stature, and espoused supposed high intellect at domestic events to impress the common peasants who are awe struck and dumbfounded in the presence of such awe inspiring personalities.
In a gathering of gibbons, the one that is most agitatively active, will be tolerated to be the leader.
Such a gibbon will have to keep up the standard of his antics, or lose his position to someone who can be more active.
They will chatter, scream, howl, hoot, glare, bluster, whistle, and barge head-on to scare their imaginary opponents.
In the end, it is only for their own domestic consumption, to impress the poorer and uneducated rural folks.
A classic case of "the Blind leading the Blind".
Little wonder that their PM Dr M Mahatir had to break down and sob in disgust that he has not succeeded to bring his brothers and sisters out of their cycle of poverty.
Still he refuse to learn from our Singapore experience in helping our lesser privileged Malay brothers and sisters, to break out from their poverty cycle.
Still he get his people to run us to the ground, and run in circles around our assets. -
To: Gun
I have no idea who u are in real life. You could be a politician who can actually do something about this whole mess. I just think that normal citizens getting all angry about things that they quite frankly have no power over is just bad for health... not to mention all that anger you might be feeling towards Malaysians in general cant be a good thing either. I think i will stand with my original very humble suggestion that both you and cx lighten up -
so we cant say our stand on tis forum anymore?Originally posted by awestruck:To: Gun
I have no idea who u are in real life. You could be a politician who can actually do something about this whole mess. I just think that normal citizens getting all angry about things that they quite frankly have no power over is just bad for health... not to mention all that anger you might be feeling towards Malaysians in general cant be a good thing either. I think i will stand with my original very humble suggestion that both you and cx lighten up
just becos u ask both them to lighten up? n wats wrong wif patriotism??
i guess we just have to give away the lighthouse just to cool tis shit off eh?
we dun hate the Msian...we hate the Msia Govt tat is doin all tis...time r bad now..n they're still doin tis dumb shit....u tell me how to lighten up?
or we shld tell the Msia Govt..hey ur Navy can come and bleach our territorial water anytime..we like it so much..u can even fire a few rounds we wont even fire back..... -
thank you all of you for expressing your opinions. they are much appreciated. all are right no one is wrong and i am sure my current post will definitely have critics slamming it once more. at least it means all of you do believe in their ownselves. i have enjoyed myself reading all the responses to my out of the blue views. most interesting and i believe we have finally cleared the air.
1.we do not hate each other. Merely each other's govt.
2.we are at the mercy of the media who controls wat we need to know and supposed to know. (propaganda)
3.... ( to be figured in deeper perspective)
i just have one final question ..... it impresses me how childish people are able to bring about so much confusion and slamming bout each other. ponder bout it... why do we respond if we believe ourselves to be mature ,thoughtful insightful beings? -
Originally posted by CX:
gee whiz... now, we are talking about norms, not exceptions. my opinion is the opposite of yours... one accepts the privileges and obligations of citizenship. not everyone agrees wholeheartedly, but are u implying that resentment and disgust at the pink IC is the norm while loyalty and patriotism is the exception?
By term "one accepts privileges and obligations of citizenship'....
I would like to express that... Anyone in their right frame of mind and without extreme hostility towards another would ACCEPT privileges of ANY TYPE.....
OBLIGATIONS of citizenship in other words are LAWs.... I think we probably won't have much of a choice as to whether we wanna accept it or not...?
Nope... I did not mention anything about 'resentment and disgust at the pink IC as a norm and loyalty & patriotism is the exception'... Just clarifying that 'by definitions' does not necessarily make one adhere to a set of values naturally....
Take your example?
A fellow citizen of a country would naturally be expected to contribute and think in terms of the welfare of the country... Hence, patriotism and loyalty... Resentment and disgust would be seem as contradictary to that.... YET, in SIngapore people are COMPLAINING... Its just that Singapore government practise an IRON FIST over their people and RIOTs are ILLEGAL... BUT that doesn't mean that people don't feel disgust or resentment does it...?
And coming to patriotism and loyalty again.... WHO can actually read through a person's mind and heart to determine that..? For all we know we can write and say all we want.... But ACTION should speak louder than words at the appropriate time.... What if your government turn AGAINST you...? Is just out to MAKE USE of you...? (I'm not saying Singapore lah... I'm just saying for example... ANY country...) Would you still practise your LOYALTY and PATRIOTISM when ALL turn AGAINST you...? Maybe YOU might...? But surely you won't think of it as a DEFINITION for ALL OTHERS....?
a policeman is trained to uphold the law and that, by definition, means that they are not expected to do the opposite while in the course of duty. if policemen committed crimes habitually, then why do we have them for? black sheep exists everywhere. but we naturally do not breed white sheep to give black wool...
REALITY could be DEEPER than what you SEE, THINK and BELIEVEs...?
MAN by definition is not infallible. WISE men merely have the recognised ability to not commit silly mistakes as often as the average man. again, it is the question of general norm as opposed to exceptions.
Is it...? How about if I tell you MANY wise men actually made ALOT more SILLY MISTAKES than the average guy to become WHO they are today...?
i'm not mel gibson. i've been trying and i STILL do not know what women wants and least of all, how women feel... i believe in doing my best and leaving the rest to shrinks and other women... the same way i do what i can for myself and my country while leaving what i cannot yet change in the hands of policemen and wise men.
u may believe that belong to more than one community and have more than one identity (ethnic, social, cultural, religious, political) but u only have ONE nationality because Sg does not recognise dual-citizenship. that's a fact. and this civic citizenship over-rides all your other identities and commands your loyalty whether u like it or not. u can grumble and gripe and cuss and swear, but there is essentially nothing u can do to change that unless well...
the choice is yours to drop it should u find another place willing to extend u their hospitality... in which case u would be expected to subscribe to THEIR rules... u'll just be swapping one set of tyrants for another...
What can I say...? I can only say I'm PROUD to have a FELLOW SINGAPOREAN like you...
But there're ways which PATRIOTISM & LOYALTY could be practised... Doing it the HARSH way might just make everyone SUFFER for it...?