Tax on Electricity?
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Originally posted by rainee:
He no problem one la, can pay for his gf's tuition fees somemore, what do you think?
school fees =/= tuition fees
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Aunt Agony <<=====
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Aunt Agony <<=====
okie, we get your drift
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they had taken singaporean for another ride.
I had a suggestion.
why not give incentive if household usage drop below a cap.
Put it this way, they can only think of rapeing average singaporeans of more money! never incentive for you to save. just penalise onlY!!
Heil Hitler!
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Originally posted by youyayu:
$ no problem..
one time tio already?
but really, its getting way too predictable for the last few years,
they make it machiam every problem can be solved by a tax.
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who ask one man stood up
telling the people @ forum that day
he stay in 5 room HDB flat
last 5 years his average SP service bills did not evceed S$100.00
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Originally posted by reyes:
they had taken singaporean for another ride.
I had a suggestion.
why not give incentive if household usage drop below a cap.
Put it this way, they can only think of rapeing average singaporeans of more money! never incentive for you to save. just penalise onlY!!
Heil Hitler!
PAP doctrine is always cane and not carrot ideology.
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PAP doctrine is always cane and not carrot ideology.
the exception is during election campaign.
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Originally posted by reyes:
the exception is during election campaign.
Forgot about the election carrot, but most of the time after that carrot comes the big cane.
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Originally posted by zaxis:
who ask one man stood up
telling the people @ forum that day
he stay in 5 room HDB flat
last 5 years his average SP service bills did not evceed S$100.00
i still don't belive... my cousin 3 room flat 100+ liao... they just want to cock so that they can cheat us more..
i want to see hisen long family use lesser then $100 la!
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of cos they use cane rather than carrot cos SINGAPORE IS A "FINE" CITY!!!
even if they are to give you carrot.. beware it can be tinted we poison that will unknowingly erode your $$$. lolz
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Originally posted by SWAT_SG:
of cos they use cane rather than carrot cos SINGAPORE IS A "FINE" CITY!!!
even if they are to give you carrot.. beware it can be tinted we poison that will unknowingly erode your $$$. lolz
nono.. they give u 1 carrot.. they take 10 back
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Originally posted by youyayu:
nono.. they give u 1 carrot.. they take 10 back
no no no,...the carrot they give you is actually belong to you,...just that you didn't realize it, then using your own carrot to lure you into giving them 10 back. -
Rubbish from SP :
Channel NewsAsia - Saturday, November 1
SINGAPORE: The uproar began slightly over a month ago when SP Services announced that electricity tariffs would increase 21.5 per cent in the last quarter of this year.
Consumers, already burdened by record inflation, saw red and pointed to profits of S$1.086 billion that SP’s parent company, Singapore Power, made last year.
How would the poor cope, and why couldn’t Singapore Power use some of its profits to absorb the cost, many asked in newspaper and Internet forums.
But the company remained largely silent, leaving market regulator, the Energy Market Authority (EMA), to respond to news coverage and readers’ letters.
On Friday, Singapore Power broke the silence and launched a spirited defence against public anger.
"We have nothing to hide," said group chief executive officer Mr Quek Poh Huat in a media briefing helmed by top management.
The key message was this: Blaming SP Services for high tariffs is akin to shooting the messenger.
"If I’m the lorry driver (delivering) goods to your house, and you ask me how come the (price for) a bag of rice has doubled, I can’t explain to you," said chief financial officer Yap Chee Keong.
SP Services does not generate electricity; it transports power from the generation companies (gencos) to end—users, selling to households without any price mark—up.
The transmission charge, together with the fee for billing and reading of meters, makes up 17 per cent of the tariff.
Over the last six years, Singapore Power has reduced transmission charges by 24 per cent through higher efficiency.
The remaining 83 per cent of the tariff — or 25.13 cents out of the current 30.45 cents per kilowatt hour — is paid to gencos.
EMA sets the formula for tariffs, which Non—Constituency Member of Parliament Sylvia Lim asked to be revealed in Parliament last month.
Singapore Power’s profit from the regulated electricity market here was S$423 million last year, representing a 6 per cent return on total assets (ROTA) — a "reasonable" rate compared to other countries.
In Australia’s Victoria state, for example, the ROTA is 9.6 per cent. The rest of its profit was from sale of investments and its Australian operations.
In the briefing, Singapore Power also tackled other thorny questions: How far in advance can consumers know of next quarter’s electricity prices? Why can’t investments in infrastructure be postponed? Why not ask the government for funding?
Tariffs for Jan to Mar 2009 will be based on October’s average forward fuel prices, said SP Services deputy managing director Jeanne Cheng.
The gencos will convert the average forward price to Singapore dollars and use it to set the tariff’s fuel component.
"By the end of November, we would submit to EMA for approval the tariffs for (next) quarter.
EMA would require time for checks, but I believe EMA is trying to work to shorten this period to have an earlier announcement," she said.
SP Services had announced this current quarter’s tariffs two days before they kicked in, but notice of up to a month is possible, said Mr Quek.
When contacted, EMA said: "We are working with SP Services to shorten the turnaround time, but ultimately, due process is needed to compute, check and confirm the figures."
Singapore Power will invest S$5.1 billion in infrastructure over the next five years, with funds coming from operational cashflows and external borrowings.
It has borrowed S$9 billion from the international markets this year for further investment, said Mr Yap.
It would be unfair to ask the government for funding because that would mean taking from taxpayers, he said.
"We can take the easy way out, but S$10 billion from the Budget would mean S$10 billion less for the rest."
Mr Yap added: "Energy has a direct correlation with gross national product. If you believe Singapore will grow, then you need to plan forward. It’s like the airport — you have to build it before planes will come."
Singapore’s major industries like the banking and pharmaceutical sectors also require high quality power grids with minimal voltage fluctuations, and "just to maintain the same standard, you have to invest", said Singapore Power’s chief operating officer Ong Boon Hwee.
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Bill did not reduce even when the family was away for holiday for a couple of weeks, nobody was at home.
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People I ask you arh, is this a good comparison?
"Singapore Power’s profit from the regulated electricity market here was S$423 million last year, representing a 6 per cent return on total assets (ROTA) — a "reasonable" rate compared to other countries.
In Australia’s Victoria state, for example, the ROTA is 9.6 per cent. The rest of its profit was from sale of investments and its Australian operations." CNA
Sale of investments and their Australian operations can be nonrecurring earnings. Means this kind of earnings doesn't happen every year. So it's unfair to quote Australia's Victoria state's public utility. Their ROTA can be lower than 6% without those nonrecurring earnings or maybe slightly higher.
I'm sure if CNA had used ROA instead of ROTA, Australia's public utility would have a lower ROA when compared with SP due to goodwill which is in the intangible accounts when they make investments.
So what does it tell us? Numbers and figures, and statistics all can be manipulated to make it look nice. Take what you read with a pinch of salt and analyse it yourself.
ROTA= returns on tangible assets (excluding intangibles)
ROA= returns on assets
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Originally posted by Evangel:
People I ask you arh, is this a good comparison?
"Singapore Power’s profit from the regulated electricity market here was S$423 million last year, representing a 6 per cent return on total assets (ROTA) — a "reasonable" rate compared to other countries.
In Australia’s Victoria state, for example, the ROTA is 9.6 per cent. The rest of its profit was from sale of investments and its Australian operations." CNA
Sale of investments and their Australian operations can be nonrecurring earnings. Means this kind of earnings doesn't happen every year. So it's unfair to quote Australia's Victoria state's public utility. Their ROTA can be lower than 6% without those nonrecurring earnings or maybe slightly higher.
I'm sure if CNA had used ROA instead of ROTA, Australia's public utility would have a lower ROA when compared with SP due to goodwill which is in the intangible accounts when they make investments.
So what does it tell us? Numbers and figures, and statistics all can be manipulated to make it look nice. Take what you read with a pinch of salt and analyse it yourself.
ROTA= returns on tangible assets (excluding intangibles)
ROA= returns on assets
No surprise, figures and statistics can be manipulated. Was working in a govt environment before, my ex boss manipulated with the figures for his own selfish interest.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Rubbish from SP :
Channel NewsAsia - Saturday, November 1
SINGAPORE: The uproar began slightly over a month ago when SP Services announced that electricity tariffs would increase 21.5 per cent in the last quarter of this year.
Consumers, already burdened by record inflation, saw red and pointed to profits of S$1.086 billion that SP’s parent company, Singapore Power, made last year.
How would the poor cope, and why couldn’t Singapore Power use some of its profits to absorb the cost, many asked in newspaper and Internet forums.
But the company remained largely silent, leaving market regulator, the Energy Market Authority (EMA), to respond to news coverage and readers’ letters.
On Friday, Singapore Power broke the silence and launched a spirited defence against public anger.
"We have nothing to hide," said group chief executive officer Mr Quek Poh Huat in a media briefing helmed by top management.
The key message was this: Blaming SP Services for high tariffs is akin to shooting the messenger.
"If I’m the lorry driver (delivering) goods to your house, and you ask me how come the (price for) a bag of rice has doubled, I can’t explain to you," said chief financial officer Yap Chee Keong.
SP Services does not generate electricity; it transports power from the generation companies (gencos) to end—users, selling to households without any price mark—up.
The transmission charge, together with the fee for billing and reading of meters, makes up 17 per cent of the tariff.
Over the last six years, Singapore Power has reduced transmission charges by 24 per cent through higher efficiency.
The remaining 83 per cent of the tariff — or 25.13 cents out of the current 30.45 cents per kilowatt hour — is paid to gencos.
EMA sets the formula for tariffs, which Non—Constituency Member of Parliament Sylvia Lim asked to be revealed in Parliament last month.
Singapore Power’s profit from the regulated electricity market here was S$423 million last year, representing a 6 per cent return on total assets (ROTA) — a "reasonable" rate compared to other countries.
In Australia’s Victoria state, for example, the ROTA is 9.6 per cent. The rest of its profit was from sale of investments and its Australian operations.
In the briefing, Singapore Power also tackled other thorny questions: How far in advance can consumers know of next quarter’s electricity prices? Why can’t investments in infrastructure be postponed? Why not ask the government for funding?
Tariffs for Jan to Mar 2009 will be based on October’s average forward fuel prices, said SP Services deputy managing director Jeanne Cheng.
The gencos will convert the average forward price to Singapore dollars and use it to set the tariff’s fuel component.
"By the end of November, we would submit to EMA for approval the tariffs for (next) quarter.
EMA would require time for checks, but I believe EMA is trying to work to shorten this period to have an earlier announcement," she said.
SP Services had announced this current quarter’s tariffs two days before they kicked in, but notice of up to a month is possible, said Mr Quek.
When contacted, EMA said: "We are working with SP Services to shorten the turnaround time, but ultimately, due process is needed to compute, check and confirm the figures."
Singapore Power will invest S$5.1 billion in infrastructure over the next five years, with funds coming from operational cashflows and external borrowings.
It has borrowed S$9 billion from the international markets this year for further investment, said Mr Yap.
It would be unfair to ask the government for funding because that would mean taking from taxpayers, he said.
"We can take the easy way out, but S$10 billion from the Budget would mean S$10 billion less for the rest."
Mr Yap added: "Energy has a direct correlation with gross national product. If you believe Singapore will grow, then you need to plan forward. It’s like the airport — you have to build it before planes will come."
Singapore’s major industries like the banking and pharmaceutical sectors also require high quality power grids with minimal voltage fluctuations, and "just to maintain the same standard, you have to invest", said Singapore Power’s chief operating officer Ong Boon Hwee.
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Bill did not reduce even when the family was away for holiday for a couple of weeks, nobody was at home.
There they go again, trying to obfuscate! EMA seems to operate like PTO. The gencos or suppliers will ask for higher and higher prices and EMA/PTO hiding behind some secretive formula will approve and approve.
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someone from the EMA must be a sleeping idiot and taken for a ride by the Gencos or SP.
sack the EMA chief!!
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Was working in a govt environment before, my ex boss manipulated with the figures for his own selfish interest.
That is very bad.
We must disapprove, not approve.
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wat a lame excuse!!!
The key message was this: Blaming SP Services for high tariffs is akin to shooting the messenger.
"If I’m the lorry driver (delivering) goods to your house, and you ask me how come the (price for) a bag of rice has doubled, I can’t explain to you," said chief financial officer Yap Chee Keong.
since when we see the "lorry driver" earning such obscene "salary" aka profit?? if like wat he claims, SP jus transfer the electricity from the genco to the end-users without mark-up, then enlighten us.. how they have that big profit of $1bil dollars??
dun tell me $$$ jus fell off from the sky or the genco coy pay them to deliver electricity to all households??
they can fool the old and iliterate but they definitely cant fool the young and educated ones... the younger generation is not longer the fools they can manipulate.. i foresee that the political scene will change when the older generation of singaporean are gone.. now majority of the 66% are the older generation singaporeans who think that they owe the govt a living.. it shd be the other way round, they owe our a living..
the true meaning of VOTE BY MASSES, SERVE THE MASSES...
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Tiered electricity tariff will benefit needyI REFER to last Saturday's reply by the Ministry of Trade and Industry, 'Electricity prices: Why HK is cheaper'.
The tiered system I envisage for electricity is not one where the baseline tier is already set to recoup full cost, with a tax artificially imposed on excess consumption, as is the case for water. I mentioned the tiered charge for water to illustrate that differential charging is not new here.
The Hong Kong tiered charging system is a good reference point to crunch the numbers here to reduce bills for moderate household consumption. In Hong Kong, there are six progressive tiers of rates from the first 150 units, charged at baseline rate to the final tier of 1,001 units and above at baseline, plus 12 cents.
Here, the uniform rate for household consumption is 30.45 cents. The average electricity consumption per household varies but overall, it is about 300 units monthly.
Even if the provider needs to recoup the same total revenue, this can be achieved where the baseline consumption rate is significantly below 30.45 cents per unit while consumption in the subsequent tiers is charged at progressively higher rates. If one pegs the unit rates correctly, households consuming moderate quantities of electricity will be better off.
It should not increase prices for average households whose consumption does not exceed the baseline or lower tiers which should be below cost or at cost. Contrary to what the ministry stated, there would be an incentive to consume less so as not to cross to the higher tiers.
Such a system will return the benefits of saving electricity to the consumer through the cross subsidies, due to the differentiation in electricity charges.
A tiered tariff can assure everyone, regardless of household type, of affordable baseline consumption. The well-off are less likely to moderate their consumption and hence will pay for additional electricity at the higher rates.
Electricity is a modern necessity. We should get the pricing structure correct to prevent electricity becoming a heavy burden to households.
Finally, we should explore a mechanism to cushion the spikes in electricity tariff, which inflict sudden anxiety and impact on the cost of living. One possibility is what is done for public transport by way of a fuel equalisation fund, which public transport operators maintain to cushion the impact of volatile fuel prices so as not to pass them on to commuters.
Sylvia Lim (Ms)
Non-Constituency Member of Parliament
