SGP a strong ally of USA - Leader not considered World Class
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Originally posted by Go:
We are just a red dot on the world map.
I wonder where do Singaporeans get their ego from ?
from geyland PRC gals lor, most sg uncles are very egostics about PRC gals in geyland, they boost about their manhood and pride of getting a young prc gals with printed face of our late president of Singapore's notes.If I am the opposition, i will rather train these PRC gals to ask those Uncles to vote for me, sure win the election, Obama use internet to boost his votes, Singapore opposition should use PRC gals to boost their vote too
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Originally posted by simikai:
With so many M here, Obama is probably confused as to which one calls the shot here. So it is likely that he will call those countries with the traditional president and prime minister first, until his aides can advise him on the right protocol in dealing with an oddball ally with such a sui generis structure in leadership.
HAHAHA very good point simikai!
eh don't forget DPM..
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Originally posted by the Bear:
actually, think about it..
extraordinary times require extraordinary lea-duhs..
in singapore, we live in ordinary times... do we really need extraordinary lea-duhs.. and when there are, we won't know because there aren't any horrendifyingly critical and crucial issues at hand..
Is it not amazing, the world is changing as fast as the time is ticking away, and yet the resident political “ narcissist” will claim that we live in ordinary times ?
Only the Father, the Son and the Holy PAP Ghost and the "croonies" will continue to insist on the status quo so as not to rock their boat that is caught in a world storm.
Now, should we not carefully weigh the cynicism of a "narcissist" posting in this 'corner' ?
Originally posted by the Bear:
and also, the US leader has a lot to repair.. basically the damage done by the outgoing commander-in-thief...actually, we do have some world-crass lea-duhs... world class idiocy, world class disgrace, world class incompetence, world class backstabbing.. all the MIW horror pales in comparison to his achievements
In the other thread, I had given the symptoms of a "narcissist" :
It is amazing that the narcissist will believe himself to be disapproving of the present Singapore Government, and at the same time is just as strongly disapproving of the abilities of the various personalities from the Alternative Parties.
With such cynicism mixed with the volatality of a narcissist - is it any wonder that Singapore continue to exist in a state of political limbo since independence in 1965 ?
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Got VERY INTERESTING point on WHY SINGAPORE WAS NOT CALLED.
SINGAPORE is NOT in any official ALLIANCE with the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Got VERY INTERESTING point on WHY SINGAPORE WAS NOT CALLED.
SINGAPORE is NOT in any official ALLIANCE with the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
No no no,,,,those not very close one, call can liao, actually in term of courtesy, calling is not so good. Obama will personally visit Singapore to call upon LKY and LHL and Nathan. So in fact, we are more grand.LKY will cook Hakka Yong tao fu for Obama
LHL will cook mee siam mai hum for Obama's wife
Nathan will flip tosai and pratas for Obama's kids
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maybe If LHL wrote a more mature letter and demonstrate himself as a head of state he will get a respectable response. Rather than making comment about joe Biden..in the senate for foreign affair when u r sending congradulation to another head of state.
It is very difficult to understand LHL point of reference in history. He has the tendency to steer off tangent.
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it's very simple why Singapore is not on the list. It's just hard-nose foreign policy
Some of those countries on it are some of the world's most influential nations.
Mexico and Canada both shares a border with US. It makes sense to include them so as to foster better relations, and to get support on border issues.
Japan and South Korea both houses US troops. If he offends either of those countries and US troops have to be moved, then the US military will not be in a situation to react fast to any military activities from North Korea.
And if he includes Singapore and not China or Russia, how big a slight would it be to those 2 nations or other nations much more influential than us.
And yes, while we are a close ally, seriously we don't have the influence to warrant an official response on the media. Stop looking too much it.
I think it's good that someone from his team is thinking of how to handle foreign affairs as under Bush, it was woefully underperformed.
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i cant agree on everything what those anti gov said but.. one thing for sure.. GDP might rise and rise over here making us as a whole look wealthy but.. at the expenses of the peoples quality of life and private wealth... the leaders always said we dun hav natural resources only people so i guess they turn to squeeze juices out from us since they cant squeeze oil... but we dun really hav a choice.. ohh singapore need obama~ i dun care if his a indian malay or non chinese just be worthly enough though (as compare to the mediocre standard our oppersition have).....
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well i was also thinking that our govt was too close to the current administration. And Obama voted in for the other direction so i think there will be a period of cool down.
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Originally posted by pigsticker:
it's very simple why Singapore is not on the list. It's just hard-nose foreign policy
Some of those countries on it are some of the world's most influential nations.
Mexico and Canada both shares a border with US. It makes sense to include them so as to foster better relations, and to get support on border issues.
Japan and South Korea both houses US troops. If he offends either of those countries and US troops have to be moved, then the US military will not be in a situation to react fast to any military activities from North Korea.
And if he includes Singapore and not China or Russia, how big a slight would it be to those 2 nations or other nations much more influential than us.
And yes, while we are a close ally, seriously we don't have the influence to warrant an official response on the media. Stop looking too much it.
I think it's good that someone from his team is thinking of how to handle foreign affairs as under Bush, it was woefully underperformed.
In that entire list, all of them have formal alliances with the US.
Singapore is just a regional partner with some FTAs.
A possible reason why the SG government isn't too excited about Obama is cos he is a Left-leaning liberal, who may seek protectionist means to tweak their economy. If he does that, our FTAs with the US may be affected, thereby negatively affecting OUR economy.
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Originally posted by pigsticker:
it's very simple why Singapore is not on the list. It's just hard-nose foreign policy
Some of those countries on it are some of the world's most influential nations.
Mexico and Canada both shares a border with US. It makes sense to include them so as to foster better relations, and to get support on border issues.
Japan and South Korea both houses US troops. If he offends either of those countries and US troops have to be moved, then the US military will not be in a situation to react fast to any military activities from North Korea.
And if he includes Singapore and not China or Russia, how big a slight would it be to those 2 nations or other nations much more influential than us.
And yes, while we are a close ally, seriously we don't have the influence to warrant an official response on the media. Stop looking too much it.
I think it's good that someone from his team is thinking of how to handle foreign affairs as under Bush, it was woefully underperformed.
Most sensible post on the topic.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
In that entire list, all of them have formal alliances with the US.
Singapore is just a regional partner with some FTAs.
A possible reason why the SG government isn't too excited about Obama is cos he is a Left-leaning liberal, who may seek protectionist means to tweak their economy. If he does that, our FTAs with the US may be affected, thereby negatively affecting OUR economy.
"Formal Ties" ?
Other then the NAFTA signed between USA, Canada and Mexico - that is similar to the USA-SGP FTA - is there any other formal ties between Mexico and USA that can be seen as similar to the other "FORMAL ties" between USA and the other remaining 9 countries that include Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Korea and UK ?
Are there any formal ties between France and USA - when France quit NATO due to differences with US policies and politics, and had only recently considered rejoining ?
Besides not having any other more "formal ties" - there is also no FTA between France and USA .
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Originally posted by Atobe:
"Formal Ties" ?
Other then the NAFTA signed between USA, Canada and Mexico - that is similar to the USA-SGP FTA - is there any other formal ties between Mexico and USA that can be seen as similar to the other "FORMAL ties" between USA and the other remaining 9 countries that include Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Korea and UK ?
The reason is clear that Obama will associate and only trust not just countries with honorable people in power but more importantly, countries with honorable systems of politics.
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Originally posted by pigsticker:
it's very simple why Singapore is not on the list. It's just hard-nose foreign policy
Some of those countries on it are some of the world's most influential nations.
Mexico and Canada both shares a border with US. It makes sense to include them so as to foster better relations, and to get support on border issues.
Japan and South Korea both houses US troops. If he offends either of those countries and US troops have to be moved, then the US military will not be in a situation to react fast to any military activities from North Korea.
And if he includes Singapore and not China or Russia, how big a slight would it be to those 2 nations or other nations much more influential than us.
And yes, while we are a close ally, seriously we don't have the influence to warrant an official response on the media. Stop looking too much it.
I think it's good that someone from his team is thinking of how to handle foreign affairs as under Bush, it was woefully underperformed.
It is simply too early for Obama to be "hard nosed" in his selective approach in responding to the deluge of congratulatory messages.
If you feel that China and Russia is more weighty than Singapore, can Austalia or South Korea be heavier in weight than China and Russia to warrant the call made ?
Clearly, the calls made by Obama were to countries that he see a common thread with his political principles of democratic practices, of hope and positive change for their respective citizens.
Governments that are realistic in their assumptions of their roles in public service instead of self-aggrandizement through inflated self-valuation must surely have gained Obama's respect.
For his character displayed in listening to the smallest and weakest person, remembering the elderly 103 year old who lived to see this day, the humility displayed in winning this momentous election - he will surely have called Singapore if only we had the shine in our politics that would have been befitting the aura in LKY's claim as the leader of a miracle country belonging to the First World.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Most sensible post on the topic.
It all depends on which direction the wind blows. -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
maybe If LHL wrote a more mature letter and demonstrate himself as a head of state he will get a respectable response. Rather than making comment about joe Biden..in the senate for foreign affair when u r sending congradulation to another head of state.
It is very difficult to understand LHL point of reference in history. He has the tendency to steer off tangent.
With his amazing glib ability to "FIX" politics and his father's equally amazing beliefs in eugenics - both publicly published and spread near and far - can both be treated with any respect besides given the cursory courtesy as "nominal heads of state" ? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
"Formal Ties" ?
Other then the NAFTA signed between USA, Canada and Mexico - that is similar to the USA-SGP FTA - is there any other formal ties between Mexico and USA that can be seen as similar to the other "FORMAL ties" between USA and the other remaining 9 countries that include Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, Korea and UK ?
Are there any formal ties between France and USA - when France quit NATO due to differences with US policies and politics, and had only recently considered rejoining ?
Besides not having any other more "formal ties" - there is also no FTA between France and USA .
Eh don't be a blind joker lar. My words were "FORMAL ALLIANCES" not "Formal Ties."
The above 9 countries had formal alliances, either through NATO or through some formal defence arrangements.
Singapore is NOT in ANY ALLIANCE with the US. No Black n White arrangement, nothing OFFICIAL. Comprende??
We are just a regional partner, an FTA partner. Though we have several defence cooperations, Singapore chose not to call these cooperations an "Alliance" due to regional sensitivities. Understand?
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Originally posted by actualization~:
i cant agree on everything what those anti gov said but.. one thing for sure.. GDP might rise and rise over here making us as a whole look wealthy but.. at the expenses of the peoples quality of life and private wealth... the leaders always said we dun hav natural resources only people so i guess they turn to squeeze juices out from us since they cant squeeze oil... but we dun really hav a choice.. ohh singapore need obama~ i dun care if his a indian malay or non chinese just be worthly enough though (as compare to the mediocre standard our oppersition have).....
The sad thing is that the GDP growth in SGP is not from some industrial output comparable to that of South Korea, Taiwan, China or Japan, but from the churning of economic activities performed by Singaporeans both in domestic consumption and foreign trade.
Looking at the report of the macro-economic policies for 2007, you can review the Operating Revenues and Expenditures, and will see that much of the Revenue is derived from the domestic economic activities Singaporeans.
A blooming GDP is the curtains mounted on a window simply to make everything look good, but are Singaporeans wealthy ?
Considering the changes in income disparity leading to the widening income gap between the high wage group, middle-income group and the lower-income - even as the government claim to positive gain to the rising income of Singaporeans - has there been any change to Singaporean wealth in the face of mounting inflation ?
You may want to reconsider your statement by taking a quick peek into the following wiki reference site, if you have no time to google for data from the Department of Statistics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Eh don't be a blind joker lar. My words were "FORMAL ALLIANCES" not "Formal Ties."
The above 9 countries had formal alliances, either through NATO or through some formal defence arrangements.
Singapore is NOT in ANY ALLIANCE with the US. No Black n White arrangement, nothing OFFICIAL. Comprende??
We are just a regional partner, an FTA partner. Though we have several defence cooperations, Singapore chose not to call these cooperations an "Alliance" due to regional sensitivities. Understand?
"Formal Ties" or "Formal Alliances" - replace it in the questions asked.What has been posted remains unchanged.
In 1998, Singapore has a FORMAL Agreement with the USA that allowed the US Navy to dock at the Changi Naval Base and take on resupply.
Without having a "formal alliance" in the status that you claim, would Singapore have been given access to all the training facilities used by the USAF ?
Is Singapore's participation in supporting US presence in Iraq not considered a "Strategic Alliance" in the interest of Singapore ?
What possibly could your argument be about ?
Yes, it is due to the sensitivity of any "Formal Alliance" between Singapore and the USA that prevent one from being made.
It does not prevent the activities from occurring between two countries who have chosen each to be allies without any need to formalise it.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Eh don't be a blind joker lar. My words were "FORMAL ALLIANCES" not "Formal Ties."
The above 9 countries had formal alliances, either through NATO or through some formal defence arrangements.
Singapore is NOT in ANY ALLIANCE with the US. No Black n White arrangement, nothing OFFICIAL. Comprende??
We are just a regional partner, an FTA partner. Though we have several defence cooperations, Singapore chose not to call these cooperations an "Alliance" due to regional sensitivities. Understand?
my thoughts are typically it is State department that handle all "Formal Communication" Technically speaking he has no voice yet. So obama call those folks would also means that he is establishing his first tier personal relationship with leaders that either he needs to work with and shared common democratics value.
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Well, i hv seen US navy submarines at sembawang coast and yard, and our govt are also looking for a berth to dock US navy ships n carriers here since Subic in philippines was terminated.
Obama is a fox, he is very clever, all the above issues are sensitive in term of surrounding neighbours countries view, so, inorder not to beat the grass and alert the snake, he rather not call Singapore so that our relationship with our neighbouring countries will remain as it is.
Publicity is not flavourable in certain condition, his advisors would had advised him not to include Singapore in it, but to thanks the Singapore Govt in an informal way as close friends do, if he will to thanks us publicitily, and not to Malaysia, indonesia, philippines or SE Asia countries, then there maybe tension within the Asean Countries on us. It is a sensitive issues that in any point of time, a foreign minister of Asean may rise and say "Singapore is nothing but a lackey for the American", we wouldn't want that to happen, would we??
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Originally posted by Atobe:
It all depends on which direction the wind blows.I don't spit nor pee in the bush, no worry about wind blows. Don't need to write so many posts to cover up wet pants.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
my thoughts are typically it is State department that handle all "Formal Communication" Technically speaking he has no voice yet. So obama call those folks would also means that he is establishing his first tier personal relationship with leaders that either he needs to work with and shared common democratics value.
Obama has yet to be sworn in, he has no State Department in his administration (which doesn't exist yet). Until he is sworn in, then he will reshuffle, re-appoint a new Secretary of State.
I wouldn't say he has no voice yet. However, he recognizes that he needs to establish closer relationships with other world leaders in order to "negotiate without preconditions." A good point to start with be close allies and neighbors, eg Mexico, Canada, and Key NATO countries, and East Asian Allies.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Well, i hv seen US navy submarines at sembawang coast and yard, and our govt are also looking for a berth to dock US navy ships n carriers here since Subic in philippines was terminated.
Obama is a fox, he is very clever, all the above issues are sensitive in term of surrounding neighbours countries view, so, inorder not to beat the grass and alert the snake, he rather not call Singapore so that our relationship with our neighbouring countries will remain as it is.
Publicity is not flavourable in certain condition, his advisors would had advised him not to include Singapore in it, but to thanks the Singapore Govt in an informal way as close friends do, if he will to thanks us publicitily, and not to Malaysia, indonesia, philippines or SE Asia countries, then there maybe tension within the Asean Countries on us. It is a sensitive issues that in any point of time, a foreign minister of Asean may rise and say "Singapore is nothing but a lackey for the American", we wouldn't want that to happen, would we??
If Singapore ever bother about her neighbors seeing Singapore as an "American lackey", it certainly does not show for the number of policies that Singapore has made in support of the USA's global politics.
Against the opinions of her ASEAN neighbors, Singapore was alone in supporting Bush's Iraq War, and was the first in ASEAN to join Bush call "to either stand with him or be against him".
It was also against the ASEAN neighbors wishes to see South-east Asia as a nuclear free zone, that LKY pursued USA continued presence to dock the US Navy into a newly built Changi Naval Base specially built to accomodate the needs for a deep water resupply facility of the largest aircraft carrier in the world.
While geo-politics may determine the necessities of who we need to work with, the deep end of the soul will tell one who we can trust as friends beyond the politics and geo-political niceities.
USA may need to work with China and Russia - that does not mean that she trust them as friends will.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I don't spit nor pee in the bush, no worry about wind blows. Don't need to write so many posts to cover up wet pants.
From spittle to pee, that is progress.Are you being honest by stating you "don't pee in the bush" - surely you must have done so during your NSF days in the field ?
Must have learnt something about the wind direction to know that wet pants do happen.
Phlegm can be swallowed, but if you hold on for too long with the pee - you got to watch the stones.