Why do we need CPF?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Wow, that is new to me! Thanks for this info. I had thought CPF was PAP invention.
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Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):
ya.. migrate ... or DIE!!!!
Singapore welcomes workers from foreign countries hit by financial meltdown :Sg has been ranked three times by the World Bank as the "Easiest place to do business in the world". I wonder what does this imply on wages of people who Pay And Pay 1st world cost of living ?
Wow, look at the rising cost of living.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Well, increased lifespan is a major factor.
Not to mention if you have a increased lifespan, you're going to be hit by more dehabilating diseases and problems(kidney failure, diabetes, weak knees, high blood pressure, poor eye sight..etc). Which naturally leads to higher medical bills.
So i would think it's a reasonable measure.
Unless you have a different take on it?
The problem is that whatever amount that is being retained in the CPF can never be sufficient to pay-off the artificially inflated health care and hospital charges that are priced for hospitals to be profitable.The hospitals are expected to be self-sustainable, and like the over glorified claims of the supposed heavy subsidy given to public housing, the government has never come clean to declare the profits generated from the sale of public housing - and reports have even discovered the ‘under reporting of government revenue’ in the annual budget to Parliament.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
The problem is that whatever amount that is being retained in the CPF can never be sufficient to pay-off the artificially inflated health care and hospital charges that are priced for hospitals to be profitable.The hospitals are expected to be self-sustainable, and like the over glorified claims of the supposed heavy subsidy given to public housing, the government has never come clean to declare the profits generated from the sale of public housing - and reports have even discovered the ‘under reporting of government revenue’ in the annual budget to Parliament.
...and when it is time to spend the "over collected" money, they raise electricity bills by 21% and raise telephone charges during a time of recession (while they take massive amounts of public money for themselves).
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Originally posted by likedatosocan:
Wow, that is new to me! Thanks for this info. I had thought CPF was PAP invention.
The danger of leaving things alone, and accepting everything and anything on its face value will soon allow the chameleons to re-color history to suit their own preferred colors at their own time. -
The problem is that whatever amount that is being retained in the CPF can never be sufficient to pay-off the artificially inflated health care and hospital charges that are priced for hospitals to be profitable.
I don't think the CPF was ever intended to be self sufficient on its own, it is at best a backup fund. If it's intended to serve as a guranteed amount against ill health, 20% + 13% from employers is not going to help if you're hit by say kidney failure, diabetes or an assortment of dehibilating diseases.
How could you be so sure that the healthcare is artificially inflated? And surely it's not unreasonable to expect hospitals to be profitable, or how are they going to retain their stuff and upgrade their equipment?
I question this because i've had to rush someone to the SGH in the middle of the night 4 times. And each time we were dealt with promptly in an orderly fashion, and they were willing to bring the patient into the monitoring ward ahead of the queue. And it took around 30-60 minutes for the doctor to come out and explain to us what was wrong.
Even the cost was acceptable, around 80 dollars including xray scans.Especially for a late night emergency.
Even when i brought my mother for her annual eye check up in TTSH, normally they had to apply a dilating solution to the eye before the examination and my mother had to deal with blurred vision for several hours.
Now all they had to do was apply another solution and my mother no longer had to deal with blurred vision. The results shows, because the waiting area is definitely more empty now.
You only see the rising cost, but you have to experience yourself the rising quality of services as well. Constantly taking the worst case scenario off the newspaper hardly shows the actual stituation. Unless you're only willing to accept the truth you want to accept and unwilling to believe that others may think differently.
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The hospitals are expected to be self-sustainable, and like the over glorified claims of the supposed heavy subsidy given to public housing, the government has never come clean to declare the profits generated from the sale of public housing - and reports have even discovered the ‘under reporting of government revenue’ in the annual budget to Parliament.
Expected by whom? Certainly not by me at least.
Canada has free universal healthcare, but it has natural resources to spare to pay for it. Europe has it as well, but they're already complaining about the heavy social costs for it.
I never believed that good services can ever be free or even cheap. That's an oxymoron and makes no sense given that medical technology will always be improving and the staff has to be constantly upgraded.
I won't comment on the HDB susidy issue. Because i've not experienced it myself and feel i'm not qualified to say anything on it.
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The danger of leaving things alone, and accepting everything and anything on its face value will soon allow the chameleons to re-color history to suit their own preferred colors at their own time.I can see the virtue in not changing. And i do believe that the PAP has to change itself to better fit the times. Picking high grade scholars and assuming that they're naturally better is a dangerous assumption.
Regarding LKY and his dynasty, i do believe that he is 70% correct and 30% wrong (A quote from the CCP's account of Mao Tze Dong)
However, i do not believe in this unreasonable fear of all powerful tyrants and i do NOT believe in having change for change's sake.
Re-coloring of history will happen irregardless of what we do, because it's only the winners that can decide so. If an opposition takes over from the PAP THEY would be recoloring history the same way so they would look better next to the PAP as well.
That is the nature of history, and yet you're speaking as if the PAP is an exception to this rule.
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CPF is an excuse to fund themselves to gamble away by GLC in the name of your old age security.There are people whom do not know how to handle money and they are treating everyone do not know how to save money with this policy which is akin like punishing good men along with bad one.Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security sounds familiar? In this case,they have taken away your liberty to decide how you would spend your money which is obstruction of liberty of using your OWN money in the name of security. No body in this world have the right to interfere with how you want to use your money not even your MUM and dad. Who they think they are to take away this right away from you which is going against law of nature? Lastly employers have to top up your CPF which is making Singaporeans less compeitive than those who came foreign so that more employers who want to cut down cost will prefer foreign than local. Isn't it?
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Originally posted by (human):
CPF is an excuse to fund themselves to gamble away by GLC in the name of your old age security.There are people whom do not know how to handle money and they are treating everyone do not know how to save money with this policy which is akin like punishing good men along with bad one.Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security sounds familiar? In this case,they have taken away your liberty to decide how you would spend your money which is obstruction of liberty of using your OWN money in the name of security. No body in this world have the right to interfere with how you want to use your money not even your MUM and dad. Who they think they are to take away this right away from you which is going against law of nature? Lastly employers have to top up your CPF which is making Singaporeans less compeitive than those who came foreign so that more employers who want to cut down cost will prefer foreign than local. Isn't it?
Well done! I admire your courage, even if i personally think you lack the knowledge to know what you are complaining about.
Now, please take an oath before our supreme court, and declare our society need not pity you if you go broke with your own way of investing your CPF fully drawn out, and we, as well as our future young generations, need not offer you any medical services or social care, not even cardboards for you to collect.
And don't ever complain you had been shortchanged or ill-treated. You have made your choice, and sworn before society.
Cheers!
PS: Be brave! Don't be like those foolhardy graduates who cursed and disparage their fellow citizens here and proudly left us, after years of our society providing for them, to other countries. And now with the crisis, quietly slinked back to our shores looking for jobs.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Well done! I admire your courage, even if i personally think you lack the knowledge to know what you are complaining about.
Now, please take an oath before our supreme court, and declare our society need not pity you if you go broke with your own way of investing your CPF fully drawn out, and we, as well as our future young generations, need not offer you any medical services or social spending, not even cardboards for you to collect.
And don't ever complain you had been shortchanged or ill-treated. You have made your choice, and sworn before society.
Cheers!
Lack the knowledge to know what i am complaining about? What makes you so sure to say that? Personally i think you lack the knowledge to even judge here.
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Originally posted by (human):
Lack the knowledge to know what i am complaining about? What makes you so sure to say that? Personally i think you lack the knowledge to even judge here.
Hell no, i aint a judge nor will judge anyone, or even the power to enforce my judgement. Heck! I even supported you, lol! But it doesnt matter what you think of me. It's you that matters, and what you do after talking so much. After all, you the one complaining. -
Yes, I suppose if I grow old and anyhow spend my retirement money (if I could control my own money) and become poor and destitute, it will be a pain to people around me...
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What you feel is that people who lack control are none of your business and would never affect you but since they live in the same country it will still ultimately bounce back to us.
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To put it simply, the government thinks that we are not financially savvy to manage our own money. Only know how to spend right? That makes us FOOLS!
We will never grow out of it when they keep asking us to pay them millions to NANNY us. Cool right? 
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Have we all learnt nothing from the current financial crisis? How many so called 'savvy investors' were there in the lehman debacle? How many lost their entire savings? And guess who ultimately have to take care of these 'savvy investors'?
We are a society that will never leave anyone behind, and will try all means to help the weak, the poor, and the old. But we are limited. We have no national resources to speak of. The billions contributed by fellow citizens in the CPF is not free, for it must be returned, and returned with interests.
Such funds are utilised to make long term strategic investments returns for us all, to pay us back as well as to help with social spending on infrastructure, education and economic progress.Without such funds, contributed by your father and mine, and us all, the next generation would not have 1st class education to help them escape poverty, many of us would have been jobless, and our nation at the mercy of other countries as a debtor nation, just to keep the flag flying.
This had not been the vision of what our forefathers had when they perform menial tasks for their colonnial overlords and race supremacist masters.Our today is owed to them, for their contribution to our liberation, and your continued support to keep our flag flying free.
Individually, our own wealth is nowhere near the wealth we together combined can be, nor make the kind of returns to justify investments, more so with the high element of risks in financial markets and creating your own biz empire,of which only one in a thousand can succeed.
Better the money be pooled together, with better security for returns, and can be used to help more people than we can do on our own.We are not beasts of the wild anymore, but a civilised race to acheive greatness, if not for us, at least for our next generations to come - a better world than the one we lived, the way our forefathers had sacrificed and toiled for us.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Have we all learnt nothing from the current financial crisis? How many so called 'savvy investors' were there in the lehman debacle? How many lost their entire savings? And guess who ultimately have to take care of these 'savvy investors'?
We are a society that will never leave anyone behind, and will try all means to help the weak, the poor, and the old. But we are limited. We have no national resources to speak of. The billions contributed by fellow citizens in the CPF is not free, for it must be returned, and returned with interests.
Such funds are utilised to make long term strategic investments returns for us all, to pay us back as well as to help with social spending on infrastructure, education and economic progress.Without such funds, contributed by your father and mine, and us all, the next generation would not have 1st class education to help them escape poverty, many of us would have been jobless, and our nation at the mercy of other countries as a debtor nation, just to keep the flag flying.
This had not been the vision of what our forefathers had when they perform menial tasks for their colonnial overlords and race supremacist masters.Our today is owed to them, for their contribution to our liberation, and your continued support to keep our flag flying free.
Individually, our own wealth is nowhere near the wealth we together combined can be, nor make the kind of returns to justify investments, more so with the high element of risks in financial markets and creating your own biz empire,of which only one in a thousand can succeed.
Better the money be pooled together, with better security for returns, and can be used to help more people than we can do on our own.We are not beasts of the wild anymore, but a civilised race to acheive greatness, if not for us, at least for our next generations to come - a better world than the one we lived, the way our forefathers had sacrificed and toiled for us.
Not bad!
Simply put, CPF system > welfare system -
Stupid people like Gazelle will often conclude that, given a single occurence of extremal in the entire statistical population, therefore the whole statistical population should be assessed based on that single extremal event.
It's like terrorist hijack and crash 2 passenger liners into the WTC, therefore it's no longer safe to take airplanes, therefore Gazelle chooses to walk to from New York to Beijing.
Historical data has shown that since 1926 (great depression in 1929 and depression in 1970s) to 2000, the returns from stocks outpace government bonds and treasury bills by leaps and bounds.
Geez!!
What a moron!!!
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Frankly speaking i have attend quite a nos of international seminars with my daddy, and in term of welfare system, singapore CPF is an envy of many...they tried to copy our model, but failed due to corruption, system failure, riot, jobless, strike, and many other domestic problem that their welfare system can hardly work.
For certain commonwealth countries, the like of Brits, Aussies, canadians, there are welfare system whereby if you are jobless, u can get a certain amount of monthly welfare money from the govt. This system encourages laziness, blaming culture, social stagnancy, lack of improvement and will to work. Today with the recession, more and more go jobless, and the this system is going to be a big big problem.
Therefore, thru such external exposure, i hv come to apprecaite our CPF system, it is one of it kind that help us in a social economical way. Others are just envy of it, and envy alway come with jealousy.
Be inspire
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Stupid people like Gazelle will often conclude that, given a single occurence of extremal in the entire statistical population, therefore the whole statistical population should be assessed based on that single extremal event.
It's like terrorist hijack and crash 2 passenger liners into the WTC, therefore it's no longer safe to take airplanes, therefore Gazelle chooses to walk to from New York to Beijing.
Historical data has shown that since 1926 (great depression in 1929 and depression in 1970s) to 2000, the returns from stocks outpace government bonds and treasury bills by leaps and bounds.
Geez!!
What a moron!!!
Gazelle is probably taking O or A levels, that's why need to study and became so quiet nowadays.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Hell no, i aint a judge nor will judge anyone, or even the power to enforce my judgement. Heck! I even supported you, lol! But it doesnt matter what you think of me. It's you that matters, and what you do after talking so much. After all, you the one complaining.
You ain't a judge nor will judge anyone? Come on stop contradiction. Complaining? No i'm tell you the facts. Which part have i mentioned incorrect? Sorry i think you can't because you said you will not judge. Nevermind. -
Originally posted by Evangel:
To put it simply, the government thinks that we are not financially savvy to manage our own money. Only know how to spend right? That makes us FOOLS!
We will never grow out of it when they keep asking us to pay them millions to NANNY us. Cool right?
It 's like chewing gum. Some people do not know how to dispose properly and they came out with law to ban it completely which is like punishing those who like to eat chewing gum who would dispose it well. Why pay million when even fools can come out with that? -
If we are not financially savvy do you think they are financially savvy? Look at recently GLC lost billions in oversea investment and look at town councils that have also lost money in lehmen brother products.These people are paid millions of dollars do you still think they are financially savvy?
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Originally posted by (human):
If we are not financially savvy do you think they are financially savvy? Look at recently GLC lost billions in oversea investment and look at town councils that have also lost money in lehmen brother products.These people are paid millions of dollars do you still think they are financially savvy?
dude, everyone lost money. and i am quite sure they made billions of money too. more importantly, they will guarantee the return of your capital, and the inclusion of 13% bonus from your boss.
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Therefore, thru such external exposure, i hv come to apprecaite our CPF system, it is one of it kind that help us in a social economical way. Others are just envy of it, and envy alway come with jealousy.
Be inspire
-angel7030
Jealous and some trying to copy us? Please don't make us laugh. If the CPF system is so great other first world countries cannot implement? Or is it because CPF policy is against human rights? Remember to compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Sounds familar?
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Originally posted by (human):
Therefore, thru such external exposure, i hv come to apprecaite our CPF system, it is one of it kind that help us in a social economical way. Others are just envy of it, and envy alway come with jealousy.
Be inspire
-angel7030
Jealous and some trying to copy us? Please don't make us laugh. If the CPF system is so great other first world countries cannot implement? Or is it because CPF policy is against human rights? Remember to compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Sounds familar?
Human rights? To deny providing to a saving funds, of which you will get back the principal with interests, which is used to help the disadvantaged and for social spending to elevate our society, is the right of a human?
Sounds more like animal rights than human rights! It's frightening to see how haywired your thinking processes had become! Where did our education system went wrong with you?