Protectionism - An Unneccessary Evil
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Hey Ah Pak, this guy could join you in disproving my "conspiracy theories".
Illuminati and NWO is still bullshit.
There is no change on that.
Go and check on the sources used by the NWO propagandists, most of it are taken out of context and distorted.
The most notorious example are quotes from Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope.
Total distortion.
Really disgusted with that.
That is why I really despise these NWO propagandists.
They have no respect for other people's work.
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I'm not going to contest that here. But were what I posted in my previous posts in this thread "conspiracy theories"? What did I mention was "conspiracy theory"? That was what I was getting at. Pity, and I thought we were on the same side. I expected better from your cognitive abilities.
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Your target of NWO is wrong.
There is some confusion there.
If your target is uncontrolled corporate and financial powers, then we are on the same page.
For example Bilderberg.
If you see it as some NWO crap, then I am not there already, but if you interpret it as a gathering place for corporate and financial elites to coordinate policies, then I am with you.
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Precisely, that was the context which I mentioned it in, corporate-political collusion. Does it take some much effort to read what is actually there? Or are there some kind of prejudiced associations that are clouding your judgments. Anyway, I'm not arguing with you about that here (new world or....perhaps some other day). My issue is with Xtreyier's inability to process information that has been presented so far.
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Ok.
Here's the picture as I know.
What happens if protectionism is in place?
You retain your local supermarket. You retain your local culture, taste etc.
BUT
Protectionism keeps prices higher than what could be gotten with regards to items that could be made outside more efficiently.
So.
Protect or not?
It's hard to strike a balance.
What if your supermarket uncle goes out of job? Would it justify the lower prices Wal-mart offers?
Here lies one of the painful medicine needed and yet seldom done or not to a large enough extent. Training.
As simple as it sounds, this supply-side policy is the best way out of this, but it is time-consuming and needs injects from the govt to get it going. Politically-unpopular, and time-consuming, and because the much-needed funds are not there often, countries usually opt for the easy way of protectionism.
Edit to TS: It is naive to think that markets are infallible. Compare China and Russia now. One used gradual opening of markets to open up, and the other "shock-therapy". The latter was recommended by the "richest country" you mentioned. And look what happens to USA now placing too much faith in the market by excessive deregulation and privatisation.
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At what cost? xtreyier totally ignored the human dimension in explaining "free trade". And beside, its not as if [how many times do I have to repeat this] corporations care about human [in fact, any] communities if they have a chance to make a profit.
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I somewhat agree with freedomclub as long as he is refering to TNCs (trans-national corporations).
TNCs have great mobility that they can shift production from one country to another cheaper country as long as they can justify the profits. And because they are Trans national in nature, there is little individual government's can do to ensure they stay within their control. Hence TNCs are able to come in, exploit and get out if they want to due to their trans-national nature.
One theory on the problem was that economic globalization is running ahead of political globalization. There is little formation of international or supranational organizations (eg.EU) with consolidated power of various states to check such corporations.
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The debate of protectionism being evil or good is very subjective. I think after reading through most of the replies from this thread we can see both side of the coin. However I just want to point out that at this point, given the global financial situation we are in, the temptation of the Governments leaning toward protectionism is strong (that's why it is being brought up by big organisation around the world).
Think about it, we should not see it from the light where the market is doing well and government is trying to eliminate competitions to the take the whole pie for themselves. It is just one of the consideration and "solutions" that the government can think of to prevent big cooperations from falling and preventing further unemployment.
Just my 2cent worth.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
One theory on the problem was that economic globalization is running ahead of political globalization. There is little formation of international or supranational organizations (eg.EU) with consolidated power of various states to check such corporations.
On the contrary, the formation of the EU, NAFTA (soon-to-be North American Union) and other supranational organisations, have all been spear-headed by the same corporate-political elite. The WB/IMF/WTO are merely tools of western corporations that use them as a 'trojan horse' into Third World nations. The SAP that the WB/IMF uses are too coincidental a blessing to western corporations that seek to infiltrate and monopolise Third World countries. Thats where the term "economic hitmen" arose. If you dont want to waste so much money invading, then conquer with the Dollar.
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NAFTA (soon-to-be North American Union)
There is no real evidence on so called Union.
That is also likely crackpot.
It's got millions of rightwing citizens calling Congress, sponsoring legislation, and writing manifestos in defense of U.S. sovereignty. It comes up in presidential candidates' public appearances, has made it into primetime debates, and one presidential candidate—Ron Paul—used it as a central theme of his (short-lived) campaign.
Not bad for a plan that doesn't exist.
The North American Union (NAU) conspiracy theory is an offshoot of an all-too-real trilateral agreement called the "Security and Prosperity Partnership" (SPP). Cultivated by xenophobic fears and political opportunism, the NAU soon outstripped its reality-based progenitor. The confusion between the two today has made it difficult to sort out the facts. A little history helps...
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We'll (You'll) never know till the US crashes together with the USD, and the Amero (equivalent to the Euro- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98) is put into place.
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Survey: ASEAN 'common currency' gaining support
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200512/06/eng20
The politics of speed: An Asean Community by 2015?
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/27/
http://chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-03/04/co
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEAN
Same deal here.
If we follow your logic, Singapore also soon to be in union with Malaysia, Thailand etc also.
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Yup, for all intent and purposes, I have no intention about arguing about so-called "conspiracy theories" here (Thanks for the links though). This is about protectionism and I intend to keep it that way. Hence, I'll just say that its a non-zero possibility, which you cant deny.
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So same thing, you cannot accept the fact that NWO is bullshit.
Most conspiracy theories on internet is bullshit.
That is why there are so many of them.
xtreyier also cannot accept the merits of protectionism and flaws of free trade.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
So same thing, you cannot accept the fact that NWO is bullshit.
Most conspiracy theories on internet is bullshit.
That is why there are so many of them.
xtreyier also cannot accept the merits of protectionism and flaws of free trade.
Whatever... I sense some bitterness in you. Like "Why cant anyone UNDERSTAND me!" Hahaha.
As I said, some other day perhaps....
I'm just waiting for xtreyier's response.
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Whatever... I sense some bitterness in you. Like "Why cant anyone UNDERSTAND me!" Hahaha.
You can try your NWO stuff below:
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f
They will criticise and debunk it to hell, expose all the rubbish and nonsense.
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Protectionism isn't all that bad, it can help salvage the local industry and save jobs too. But protectionism cannot persist indefinitely, it could be use as a measure to protect the local industry, giving them time to reorganise their structure, gain technology to improve on their products.
Tariffs could be applied to the cheaper imports, which can go into subsidising the local industry, this saves job in the local industry.
If local producers produce at $10 while foreign country produces at $5, the local government could always levy tariffs from the foreign country at $2.50 per unit. The $2.50 goes into subsidising and sustaining the local industry. Both products will sell at $7.50 in the local market. Yes, you could get it for $5 in another foreign country, but by buying at $7.50, you save the jobs of the local market. Everybody pays abit more, but everybody has a job. Protectionism isn't any different from the Kereitsu's (系列) of the Japanese, where they will use Japanese firms products though these products are priced higher than other competitors.
If local industries are not protected, the country could face a situation where it is totally dependant on another country which could turn enemy for supply. Such is the case with USA, which is a fervent supporter of free trade and also a transgressor of free trade by protecting it's own steel industry, when other countries could produce steel much cheaper than USA. If USA loses it's ability to produce steel, their ability to wage war in the future could also be threatened.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
On the contrary, the formation of the EU, NAFTA (soon-to-be North American Union) and other supranational organisations, have all been spear-headed by the same corporate-political elite. The WB/IMF/WTO are merely tools of western corporations that use them as a 'trojan horse' into Third World nations. The SAP that the WB/IMF uses are too coincidental a blessing to western corporations that seek to infiltrate and monopolise Third World countries. Thats where the term "economic hitmen" arose. If you dont want to waste so much money invading, then conquer with the Dollar.
I'm not too familiar with that. Perhaps you can substantiate that claim of "same political-corporate elite" with some form of example?
The North American Free Trade Agreement is hardly supranational, perhaps more like intergovernmental.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
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Tariffs could be applied to the cheaper imports, which can go into subsidising the local industry, this saves job in the local industry.
If local producers produce at $10 while foreign country produces at $5, the local government could always levy tariffs from the foreign country at $2.50 per unit. The $2.50 goes into subsidising and sustaining the local industry. Both products will sell at $7.50 in the local market. Yes, you could get it for $5 in another foreign country, but by buying at $7.50, you save the jobs of the local market. Everybody pays abit more, but everybody has a job. Protectionism isn't any different from the Kereitsu's (系列) of the Japanese, where they will use Japanese firms products though these products are priced higher than other competitors.
If local industries are not protected, the country could face a situation where it is totally dependant on another country which could turn enemy for supply. Such is the case with USA, which is a fervent supporter of free trade and also a transgressor of free trade by protecting it's own steel industry, when other countries could produce steel much cheaper than USA. If USA loses it's ability to produce steel, their ability to wage war in the future could also be threatened.
Thats the thing. All economic stats and figures without even considering the human costs involved. Thats what I was bringing up.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
I'm not too familiar with that. Perhaps you can substantiate that claim of "same political-corporate elite" with some form of example?
The North American Free Trade Agreement is hardly supranational, perhaps more like intergovernmental.
Well, its no secret that corporate powers are heavily entrenched in the US Government. Among the organisations that spearheaded the NAFTA and the SPP (2005) are the Council of the Americas and the North American Business Council, both of whom are filled with people that comprise the revolving door between business and government.
Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP): Security and prosperity for whom?- http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8375
My mistake, I was merely extrapolating so pardon me when I included NAFTA with the EU. I was thinking of a NAU...oops (damn, Ah Pak, dont come after me!!)
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
So same thing, you cannot accept the fact that NWO is bullshit.
Most conspiracy theories on internet is bullshit.
That is why there are so many of them.
xtreyier also cannot accept the merits of protectionism and flaws of free trade.
after going through the thread......
i think you should comment more on economics than politics -
Dont blame him, its just his instincts.
Ironically, free market costs more.
http://www.fknnewz.com/view/196/free-market-costs-more-112108/
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Everyone giving up on this?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Dont blame him, its just his instincts.
Ironically, free market costs more.
http://www.fknnewz.com/view/196/free-market-costs-more-112108/
actually i meant i like what he posted here instead of typing "LKY when are you going to die" in caps
when i went through my bro's economics text book i thought whats this crap i'm reading non of this is going to work in real life and the stuff he posted helped my understanding .