Originally posted by Ageleon:join st john the best la,learn how to save lives,haha,i was even a medic in army
No join the brownie like me, i know how to nurse people well and also can do CPR and first aids function, last time i also help the red cross to carry an injured footballer out of the field on a stretcher, but me no strenght, half way dropped him, he fell worst...anyway, today kids need to be streetsmarts like me, most of them are overly pampered, therefore do not know how to handle the truth in life, same goes to sg parents, they are overly protective, kids like us need freedom, the basis of being filial piety and human touch are lost in our family society
whatever the case is, only foolish people end their own lives. They dun know and understand life is precious.
wana die where got difficult. Want to live than difficult... Coward to face the truth, reality and pain. Really ball less. And at such young age aso.
Even people kena cancer struggle to live. People without sicknes or wat wana end life. Shit them. People who chose to die deserve no pity.
when u go hell and ask those dead hor.. they tell you how much they want to live.
Originally posted by TemplarKnight:whatever the case is, only foolish people end their own lives. They dun know and understand life is precious.
wana die where got difficult. Want to live than difficult... Coward to face the truth, reality and pain. Really ball less. And at such young age aso.
Even people kena cancer struggle to live. People without sicknes or wat wana end life. Shit them. People who chose to die deserve no pity.
when u go hell and ask those dead hor.. they tell you how much they want to live.
i think you should avoid passing judgement summarily.
their mindset are troubled. they are not thinking in a rationale nor logical manner.
often people are `pushed to the extreme' when they chose the option to end it all. and that `extreme' is relative. some's threshold are lower. it could be the spur of the moment or something triggers it. there is no logical explanation to this all.
you do not go thru' what they went thru', so you should refrain from making such insensitive comment.
I feel sad for him..
Imagine... as a parent... you work so hard for his future... only to realise that he commit suicide over simple negotiable reasons... it's too bitter a pill to swallow....
Originally posted by TemplarKnight:whatever the case is, only foolish people end their own lives. They dun know and understand life is precious.
wana die where got difficult. Want to live than difficult... Coward to face the truth, reality and pain. Really ball less. And at such young age aso.
Even people kena cancer struggle to live. People without sicknes or wat wana end life. Shit them. People who chose to die deserve no pity.
when u go hell and ask those dead hor.. they tell you how much they want to live.
hmm.. let me know when you've walked in their shoes, tough guy. =)
Originally posted by lianamaster:I feel sad for him..
Imagine... as a parent... you work so hard for his future... only to realise that he commit suicide over simple negotiable reasons... it's too bitter a pill to swallow....
hmm.. then they'll hv to start questioning themselves what went wrong lor.
sometimes i realise that adults are too quick to act and too slow to listen?
i doubt they were willing to be open if someone critisize their parenting skills.
This is a point of view from a 16 year old. Let's assume CCA was the only reason for this.
CCA points count for L1R5 results. "A" minus 2 points, "B" to "C" minus 1 point.
He studies at ACS(I) so he should be pressured with academic results too. The teachers probably asked the parents to disuade him from quitting because if he cant chalk up at least 20 CCA points in 1 year, he will pull down the school's overall result for the O Levels.
The parents would disuade him from changing CCA because they've probably already invested so much in ACS(I) and don't want to kena tekan by some upstairs people.
When we say we're going to die, we mean that the things we do (in this case the training sessions) were unbearable (aka dying will encounter less pain), not that the training sessions will drive us to suicide as what the article reported. The training was probably too tough for him to handle.
Stevens Road... Probably the parents worked "so hard" that the son sees the maid more than his own parents. So there's no "connection" between them.
If he refuses to listen, it may probably because he learnt the same things from his parents. Perhaps when he voiced out his own opinions abotu this in the past, his parents "don't listen" and uses the same tone back at them. Who knows, joining T&F in the first place may not be his choice.
"His craziness" probably meant the switch from T&F to Drama as he would have been "brainwashed" by his teachers and parents by labelling this switch as "crazy".
Medal winner in this article is a bit vague so it's hard to comment on that. Let's say he made it well enough to maybe get Top 10 in school. The school would disuade him from switching to other CCAs as the school will have no backup for more winners and the school's Sustained Achievements Award for that may be lost. When that's lost, school loses face.
Parents confirm can't be go overseas to forget what happened one lah. The trip's probably been booked way before he jumped. Even if they did, it shows that how uncaring and ignorant they are of their children. Note that the 10 year old daughter is still in Singapore as the report says "the couple have gone overseas", not the family has gone overseas.
But may the boy rest in peace as he no need to join T&F anymore. Not exactly the right choice to jump though.
So its now the parents fault ? I am sure his parents did not lock him up in a chicken house for some minor offences or some seriously insane abuse to force him to take his own life. If he had survived his parents abuse and have held on to his wits n rationale , i am sure he wouldve been a great man. But he chose to end it.
Anyways, say parents fault also cannot.. say the kids fault.. also cannot. So what then is the problem ? You'll never know until u see how they interact with each other from birth to the day he ended his life. But i still think ppl tat end thier own life is really.. stupid.. honestly... maybe he was never taught how hard life really is and perhaps lived a good free life and unable to take critisicm or advice from the parents. Just couldnt take no for an answer. Over such a small issue man.. i swear man..
but anyways , we will never know until the parents really own up about how the son is at home and how they treated him.
I'm not saying it's the parent's fault. I'm sure that the parents, teachers, his friends and even himself have a part to play in this incident. I wrote this in reference to the newspaper article, not by biasing against the parents and taking sides with my own kind. I apologise if my reply was a little misleading.
Originally posted by NickL_C151:I'm not saying it's the parent's fault. I'm sure that the parents, teachers, his friends and even himself have a part to play in this incident. I wrote this in reference to the newspaper article, not by biasing against the parents and taking sides with my own kind. I apologise if my reply was a little misleading.
No worries man. I was actually replying in general to ppl who may think the parents are at fault.
lol
Originally posted by mrvictor:cca decision-making might be important because it shows whether the parents enforce their decision on the child or give the child the go-ahead, however, compared to the importance of life, cca, or even many other matters, getting into the school of dream, or similar seem absolutely trivial. there are many more things you can do with you life.
a child is definitely not just an investment, of course by parents care and nurture their children because they truly love their children. i did not say that children are only investments, although there is a certain element of it. but the main issue goes back to the parents' love, as you mentioned for the child. by taking his own life, his parents will be heartbroken because deep down in their hearts, regardless of the arguments they had with him, they still truly love him and to lose a son because of a reckless decision he made, they feel crestfallen as if some part of their life died down.
of course the love for the child plays the most crucial and significant aspect of the parents' feelings. however, there is a small aspect which is the investment part. the chinese saying goes "yin shui si yuan". repay the elders as they have once nurtured and raised you.
also, pressure for singaporean children is nothing compared to those in korea, china and japan. because of the limited number of university places in these countries and the vast numbers of people applying, children there are given more stress as the entrance ratios in cases are 100:1, but more often 30:1.
in singapore, 30% of each cohort gets the opportunity to get to university. it is a 5:4ratio, 5 people competing for 4 places, considering only those who applied for university. there is so much less challenge in getting a place in that secondary school, JC or university of choice because the odds are so high. and every parent is definitely guided by 1) love. but you should never count out the investment bit which plays a 20% role at least in raising of children
The boy was 15 years old. I believe he should have a say in what CCA he wants to take part in or not. Forcing him to remain T&F when he already has no interest or already hates, was overstepping the bounds of parenting. If the parents themselves thought the CCA to be a trivial thing, they should have left it to his perogative to decide and let it be an experience to him in decision making, and bearing the consequences of wrong decision making. Parenting teenagers is not about, "What I says Goes." Thats applicable to 5 year olds. Parenting teenagers is about preparing them for adult world, learning to give them responsibilities and teach them to face up with them.
Should parents even see their children as "investments?" I think there is a flaw in the motivation of parenting when people start to think that way. When we talk about investments, we are talking about personal self-interests. The motivation is a selfish one that revolves around personal gain in the long-term. "Investment" parenting is a fundamentally warped concept for a parent to think and worse to utter to a child. Parenting should never be about self-interest but best-interest of the child. While practically, there is a thin fine line between the two words, the connotation and motivation of it is worlds apart. Perhaps you do see your children as an investment, but please don't tell them that. Teach them values that would help them to "repay" you in kind as your old-age social security net, but DON'T TELL them that they are an investment, whether 20% or not.
Sad to say, there are parents who tell their kids about them being investments. Their first sin is to even think that way, their second is to actually tell it o the kid. If i was the kid, I would feel that I'm just an object of utility to their interest. If i don't serve that utility, i would have no value. It takes away any love that I would have recieved once I realized the source of the love. I was loved for the value in which I could provide. A sad thought don't you think?
True, all children should look after their parents. Yet it should be a process that is proactive on the part of the child, after having seen how his parents took care of their grand parents. It should not be the other way round, or communicated to be the other way round, that they are "groomed" for that purpose.
I do agree with ORIGAMIST that its a punishment too harsh for their parents. But it is not about the punishment or the blame now. Its about fixing some of these stupid views that spoil relationships between parents and kids.
Originally posted by Shotgun:> I do agree with ORIGAMIST that its a punishment too harsh for their parents. But it is not about the punishment or the blame now. Its about fixing some of these stupid views that spoil relationships between parents and kids.
agree, it's not abt passing the blame.
it's true that as outsiders we can't really say what the exact situation was, but this is not the first case of its kind. what abt the other kids who killed themselves?
we can't just argue this every case is "unique" and then let it be, cos there are things tt are common between these cases... and it points to a problem tt some singaporean families are facing, which is tt some parents work so hard tt they dun have time to spend on disciplining their children or providing their children with the right guidance. how many parents here have time and take the effort to read up on how to get along with their teenage children?
currently, in singapore, we have kids who have unrealistic expectations of themselves (score below a certain mark also can kill themselves), or those who just buckle under pressure and decide to do "crazy" things.
certainly, not everyone with parents who pressure them end up killing themselves. the child always has a choice. but we can safely that parents who force their kids too much will greatly increase the chances of tt happening.
shldn't all parents tink abt this before the next tragedy strikes?
very sad... story almost similar to the film 'Dead Poet's Society'
i think , the boy have several issues and this 'cca thing' is the final straw.. if only he has talked to someone whom he can trust. i felt the same when i was a teenager, confused, so many conflicts with my guardians. many times i wanted to end my life.. i admit i did try to end my life and was sent to IMH twice.
i wish parents are more nicer to us. all they care about is their face
i notice this tends to be the trend of the Asians: "your parents invested so much in you, and why arent you supporting them in their old age?"
i mean, its filial and good to support parents in old age. but why does this age-old phrase always comes about?? it sounds so derogatory, all kids are investments?
i hear taht all the time from everyone. and recently, one more phrase: "all kids are companions of their parents." i can agree with that, but my retort to this person (making this comment to me) was "oh, u mean u have kids just so that you can have companions?" that person was dumbfounded for a moment. then came back with a LAME excuse that doesnt bear repeating.
i dont get it.. every one of those kind of phrases is SO wrong. kids are kids. they shouldnt be seen as 'investments' and 'companions'. i mean, when they grow up they have their own lives. cannot be hangign around their whiny parents all the time.
i had poor friends telling me that their parents are whiny and forcing them to be with the family all the time, without time to hang out with friends. so no social life cos my friends feel obliged to accompany the parents. T_T
Originally posted by cathykitty:certainly, not everyone with parents who pressure them end up killing themselves.
some don hv the guts to. (like me)
Think of it in a business point of view. Imagine big company, took them decades. Now they old n dying , the inevitable liaw.... i am sure they will be hoping that at least 1 la.. take over.
Its like buying 30K diamond ring for ur fiancee , if she melts it down, its all blood and sweat. lol
Thats why they have lots of kids.. the chances of 1 taking over is higher. Or at least 1 will listen to them... follow what they say. If u follow , confirm no wrong.. its whether its your thang or not.
Originally posted by TemplarKnight:
when u go hell and ask those dead hor.. they tell you how much they want to live.
u are being too harsh.
and btw, how u know? u been to hell before ah? meaning u died before? and why did u kill urself?
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Thats why they have lots of kids.. the chances of 1 taking over is higher. Or at least 1 will listen to them... follow what they say. If u follow , confirm no wrong.. its whether its your thang or not.
wah..later all kena rebel how? must see the parents also what. lousy parenting skills, dont have any kids at all larhs.
Originally posted by L.lawliett79:
wah..later all kena rebel how? must see the parents also what. lousy parenting skills, dont have any kids at all larhs.
lol..
i am sure , if so many kids , the kids can support each other n have more say in the family ar. Imagine u got 5 brothers n sisters. lol.. all support u. Ur parents really.. cant do shit. cause all u gotta do is tell ur parents, ' Dad , mum.. by the time u guys are gone , all i have are my bros and sisters.. n i think i will follow what Da Ge says.. so stop abusing me.'
this is stupid
Originally posted by L.lawliett79:
u are being too harsh.
and btw, how u know? u been to hell before ah? meaning u died before? and why did u kill urself?
y u wan cooked in fire pit arh...
Originally posted by Xlivestrongx:very sad... story almost similar to the film 'Dead Poet's Society'
i think , the boy have several issues and this 'cca thing' is the final straw.. if only he has talked to someone whom he can trust. i felt the same when i was a teenager, confused, so many conflicts with my guardians. many times i wanted to end my life.. i admit i did try to end my life and was sent to IMH twice.
i wish parents are more nicer to us. all they care about is their face
Sorry about your tumultous adolesent years and hope you have finally emerged stronger.
Have to agree that many parents don't understand the emotional needs of their kids.