Wiping out the root of terrorism
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Originally posted by rokkie:
people need religion, is my answer, do you see, someone live a aimless life without a religion, that's why people need it to feel more content.So i am saying you can never suppress them, anyway somehow you are related with religion
So you saying atheists, agnostics and non-believers are less content people?Like what you say people need it to feel more "content" isn't it a want?
You want to feel more content, you don't need to feel more content.
It's different from "you need oxygen to survive."
I'm related with religion? How so?
I can't suppress them to mantain harmony within a population?
Can't I make them practise their religions in private and not to convert others?
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Originally posted by mancha:
Didn't you see the opening words "I see..."
My eyes are open.... thus I am reporting what I see.
Oh really? What do you saw about religious terrorism? -
Originally posted by RoyFang:
Oh really? What do you saw about religious terrorism?I suggest you re-read my post again and see what I am really saying.
You are an artist in side tracking.
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I believe what Rokkie is trying to say is that we humans need to believe that there has to be a higher being than ourselves.
Being born equal, why should we accept the advice, laws or suggestions from another flawed human being?
There has to be a supreme being who created us, and with that creation, laws and guidelines whom we must respect and adhere to, to ensure that we will not take the miracle of life for granted.
We must know that if what we do displeases, we will be punished, and when what we do pleases, will be rewarded.
Religion is also a source of comfort, for when we are down, we pray for guidance and deliverance, and at times it is answered, gladden that in the hour of our desperate need or loneliness, there is someone who cares and listens, whom we can talk to, whether we are a roadsweeper or a PM. Miracles do happen.
It is simple and not complex to understand religion. It only takes a leap of faith and faithfulness to its laws. Thus it's appeal to many, of all social strata.
Each will ultimately approached ones' creator in his own way, in his own time, without the need for outside interferences or influences.
The only problem with religion is when flawed men attempts to interprete or 'mis-interprete' divine guidance, and use the more simple or soft-hearted ones of humanity amongst us to achieve neferious aims such as terrorism.
It had happened in our past, thus we must put an end to it today. And unfortunately, the ones using religion as a tool to achieve political dominance currently in our times is radical Islam, with the most body bags count of innocents specifically targeted.
Terrorists groups such as the Jap red army, baideer meinhoff, ETA, etc combined cannot even begin to compare to the support and dammage radical islam had done to innocent humanity in undeclared war.
Can someone tell President-elect Obama to drop the idea of sending 100,000 soldiers, but instead send 100,000 progressive Islamic scholars and Imans to Afghanistan if he wants to win the war on terrorism please?
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Originally posted by mancha:
I suggest you re-read my post again and see what I am really saying.
You are an artist in side tracking.
Okay, let's analyze your post:
I see that while we are debating about terrorism and all the side incidents, we are detracted from seeing the rising scourge of an imperialistic religion. The secular world allows freedom of worship, and they flourish all over the world. And they are also quick to cry foul if they are in anyway impeded in the secular world.
Imperialistic means the attitude of superiority, subordination and dominion over foreign people— a chauvinism and comportment relegating foreign people to a lesser social and or political status.
So maybe we should suppress all religions right since they posses an danger towards we free men?
What is a secular world?
But where they reign supreme, they have no qualms about harrassing people of other faiths. Yes their theology allows people of other faith to practice freely, so claims the "moderates", but in reality, the reverse is practiced. You can see for yourself.
So whose fault? The people or the religion? You seems to be confused...
While this debate is going on we fail to see through the facade of peace created by the moderates, and this allow the fundamentalist and militants to march on.
The moderates by their wimpishness, unwittingly supports the militants.
Where are the street protest, when there are repeated beheading and other atrocities in the name of their god? Why is there an out cry when a stylised word "AIR" happens to resemble the word for their god? Which is of greater abomination?
Are you sure there are no street protests?
Muslim march over shrine bombinghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4751122.stm
Muslims in Germany march against terrorhttp://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/21/content_2244315.htm
Massive Muslim Demonstration In Morroco 'Against Al Qaida'
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/11/massive_muslim.php
Indian Muslims Against Terrorism
http://www.thesouthasian.org/archives/2008/indian_muslims_against_terrori.html
London rally against terrorism/extremism
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/329
Are you sure your eyes are open?
Something is skewed about them, and we stubbonly refuse to see, because we want to be pollitically correct. Also we fear the inherent capacity for violence in them. Also we have deference to the moderates.
Yes, we fear the people not the religion.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I believe what Rokkie is trying to say is that we humans need to believe that there has to be a higher being than ourselves.
Being born equal, why should we accept the advice, laws or suggestions from another flawed human being?
There has to be a supreme being who created us, and with that creation, laws and guidelines whom we must respect and adhere to, to ensure that we will not take the miracle of life for granted.
We must know that if what we do displeases, we will be punished, and when what we do pleases, will be rewarded.
Religion is also a source of comfort, for when we are down, we pray for guidance and deliverance, and at times it is answered, gladden that in the hour of our desperate need or loneliness, there is someone who cares and listens, whom we can talk to, whether we are a roadsweeper or a PM. Miracles do happen.
It is simple and not complex to understand religion. It only takes a leap of faith and faithfulness to its laws. Thus it's appeal to many, of all social strata.
Each will ultimately approached ones' creator in his own way, in his own time, without the need for outside interferences or influences.
The only problem with religion is when flawed men attempts to interprete or 'mis-interprete' divine guidance, and use the more simple or soft-hearted ones of humanity amongst us to achieve neferious aims such as terrorism.
It had happened in our past, thus we must put an end to it today. And unfortunately, the ones using religion as a tool to achieve political dominance currently in our times is radical Islam, with the most body bags count of innocents specifically targeted.
Terrorists groups such as the Jap red army, baideer meinhoff, ETA, etc combined cannot even begin to compare to the support and dammage radical islam had done to innocent humanity in undeclared war.
Can someone tell President-elect Obama to drop the idea of sending 100,000 soldiers, but instead send 100,000 progressive Islamic scholars and Imans to Afghanistan if he wants to win the war on terrorism please?
But yet there are religious texts which tells their followers that they're above those who aren't followers or they have to force their religions onto others to save them.These flaws turned me from religions.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Okay, let's analyze your post:
Good.
So, is my warning farfetched?
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
But yet there are religious texts which tells their followers that they're above those who aren't followers or they have to force their religions onto others to save them.These flaws turned me from religions.
Roy, those texts were written for a time and a place of our barbaric past. Since then we had progressed far beyond that when it was written and was not meant to be mis-interpretated to 'suit all occasions'.These great religions sprang from the desert lands of the arab penninsula. We asians theoratically have no affinity nor would greatly identify with the mess and chaos from that past.
We asians lived in a paradise compared to them - rich fertile lands, a tribal society, peaceful co-existance, espacially those of javanese descend.
It seemed the west - england and spain robbed us of our wealth, which we kick their butts out with our generation, but the arabs continue to rob and colonnise our minds, to be use as numbers as well as cannon fodder for their political ambitions.
No one from the great religions except radical islam, points a gun at your educated head and tell you to believe nowadays. You still have free choice.
Mancha, I understand and share your frustrations, and hope we this generation may wipe out the root of terrorism - flawed evil men mis-interpretating divine guidance.
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Originally posted by mancha:
Good.
So, is my warning farfetched?
About which religion? Islam or Radical Islam?And the religion or the followers?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Roy, those texts were written for a time and a place of our barbaric past. Since then we had progressed far beyond that when it was written and was not meant to be mis-interpretated to 'suit all occasions'.We asians lived in a paradise compared to them - rich fertile lands, a tribal society, peaceful co-existance, espacially those of javanese descend.
No one from the great religions except radical islam, points a gun at your educated head and tell you to believe nowadays. You still have free choice.
And how do we know that what was taught is what it was meant to be interpreted, don't forget we're not perfect.Are you sure we asians lived in paradise? do you mean now or in the past?
Are you 100% sure that no one from the great religions except radical Islam points a gun at someone head to convert him/her?
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Originally posted by seyKai:
was Bush attack on Iraq a terrorist act? - anyone?
yes it is -
Tsk Tsk...2 days never online see all these....
1) Religion is developed to create a sense of spiritual calmness. However, the teachings must be revised to keep up to current times. Failing which, it will fail to protect its followers and allow terrorists to claim them. Thus, Islam is not the only religion already twisted by terrorists, but other religions are in danger too.
We have reached a point where no one religion or country is safe from terrorism.
We ought to help them in any way.
As for political, nationalistic cause, sadly to say, it's an abuse. The culprits have defiled what their ancestors taught them.
2) As for the invasion of Iraq, i have to be blunt--It's all about OIL. saddam doesn't want to give it to them, america bomb the shit out of iraq and kicked saddam out of power.
Needless to say, the invasion has only made the whole situation murkier than ever....no one knows what's going on...
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
So you saying atheists, agnostics and non-believers are less content people?Like what you say people need it to feel more "content" isn't it a want?
You want to feel more content, you don't need to feel more content.
It's different from "you need oxygen to survive."
I'm related with religion? How so?
I can't suppress them to mantain harmony within a population?
Can't I make them practise their religions in private and not to convert others?
i don't know what's the big deal between the difference of want and need, but as who i am, i think human is only a trivial being, sometimes it's not you taking the decision, but it's how you are created, make you make the decision.People can feel contend in different way, but the ultimate goal for religion is to achieve liberation, i think none of way which can make you feel content in the secular world ,can not compare the contentness in religion term.
The world is full of religion, how you can stay out of this, you may have some religious friends, you may go to temple to pray for fortune. THe novel da vince code is the best selling book, there is no way for you could stay out of this
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It had happened in our past, thus we must put an end to it today. And unfortunately, the ones using religion as a tool to achieve political dominance currently in our times is radical Islam, with the most body bags count of innocents specifically targeted.
Terrorists groups such as the Jap red army, baideer meinhoff, ETA, etc combined cannot even begin to compare to the support and dammage radical islam had done to innocent humanity in undeclared war.
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i think both US govenment ,which represent christianity, and radical islam is trying to achieve political dominance, but US is rich, strong, so, He is the one who create the standard, to judge who is good , who is evil, that's why people tend to slam radical islam, more,
I think many forumer have cite many example of US government's wrongdoing, so i don't need to cite more.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
For those intellectual fundamentalist religious scholars who wish to challenge my post, i ask that you desist in bringing historical twisted baggages as a defense to confuse and detract.
I only ask that you answer one simple question, and it will make your stand clear:-
'Are we, who do not share your faith, infidels?'
If your answer is is, then your mental moral threshold is higher to accept the terrorists murders as justifiable, for there is no crime in a village mullah inspired killing of 'disbelievers/infidels' anytime, anyplace and anywhere, in the indoctrination of you in your faith.
If your answer is no, then aren't you challenging the very word of your deity, whom is all you have when you took that leap of faith to suspend logic and reason in order to believe?
If you can believe that one word from an almighty can be wrong, then what more is there to believe in other words and teachings?
I know it is tough to be a moderate and stay true to religious beliefs. It is a moral dilema daily. Some chosed to use hypocrisy or be apathetic and live in delusion.
Our own lives are not important, but for the sake of others and the next generations to come, it is a moral dilemma and a hard question we MUST confront and tackle it once and for all, as we come to grips and attempt to make sense of the brutal tragedy before our eyes.
And only then, can we all live in peace and goodwill.
If not, then let us meet in a common agreed upon ground, men to men, with honour, battle it out to settle our differences, instead of using cowardly brutual senseless killings of innocents in non-declared combat zones.
The inevitable as S. Huddington had predicted, may have to come to pass.
What do you mean by "battle it out to settle our differences"?
Can't we practise a little tolerance and compassion?
It isn't tough to be moderate and stay true to religious beliefs for almost all true religious teachings preach peace and forbearance.
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As i read the yin yang theory and the opposite basic, i come to realise that everything had it day and night, evil and good, black and white, beauti and ugly, clever and stupid, man and woman...male and female etc etc...terrorism is jus the oppose of US nomination as police and lawmakers of the world, formerly it was the cold war, today terrorism took over the opposite of it, even if one day terrorism is out of it, sometime will pop up to oppose it, as we in science had provern that everything had a resistance, therefore i am not particular surprise by the creation of terrorism, just act as a resistance, of course it kill innocent, so do the USA.
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Originally posted by pearlie27:
What do you mean by "battle it out to settle our differences"?
Can't we practise a little tolerance and compassion?
It isn't tough to be moderate and stay true to religious beliefs for almost all true religious teachings preach peace and forbearance.
You and I may know that well, but does the terrorist knows that when he pulls the trigger killing an innocent person before proclaiming his deity is great, the same deity shared by many?After 911, even fundamentalist faiths of the similar religion denounce such acts as misinterpretations, but what had they done so far to correct it? Time and time again it happened again. Even after so many years. New recruits are killing innocents again.
Isnt it time people and leaders from the same religion does something to these deviants and their masters and correct the misinterpretations so that no new killings nor sympathisers will occur?
How many more dead then will they act? afterall, isnt it harming their religion more than anyone else can?
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The supposed terrorist mindset
We want to conquer the world for Allah and Islam. Therefore we kill people. Hence, that would cause people to convert to Islam.
???
Who benefits?
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
You and I may know that well, but does the terrorist knows that when he pulls the trigger killing an innocent person before proclaiming his deity is great, the same deity shared by many?After 911, even fundamentalist faiths of the similar religion denounce such acts as misinterpretations, but what had they done so far to correct it? Time and time again it happened again. Even after so many years. New recruits are killing innocents again.
Isnt it time people and leaders from the same religion does something to these deviants and their masters and correct the misinterpretations so that no new killings nor sympathisers will occur?
How many more dead then will they act? afterall, isnt it harming their religion more than anyone else can?
what make you think that religious leaders are not doing anything? i'm sure they would not like to have their religion besmirched by some fanatics.
aren't you a bit simplistic to expect changes to happen overnight?
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I'm sure there are religious teachers that advocate peace, like those living in Singapore, and those that call for violence, like those living in the Occupied Territories or even in Saudi Arabia.
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Originally posted by lotus999:
what make you think that religious leaders are not doing anything? i'm sure they would not like to have their religion besmirched by some fanatics.
aren't you a bit simplistic to expect changes to happen overnight?
7 years had passed by, my dear. 7 years to correct one simple mistake - misinterpretations. In that time, a 6 year old kid would have passed his PSLE exams, a JC student would have gotten his University degree, etc..need i elaborate more?Worse still, there had been cases of funding for these deviants of the great Islamic faith. Who had been sympathising with them? They should have been wiped out 7 years ago, yet they still exist not only in the middle east, but even in s-e asia.
It is incredulous that the Islamic faith could issue international 'Fatawas' against writers or act against couples kissing in public, and yet here the deviants are flagrantly besmirching their religion, which they admitted in 911, not only continues to walk boldly, they could even get funds and support!
Lotus, you may be a kind and soft hearted person, but i am sure that when a terrorist gun is pointed at your head, for terrorism has no mercy for anyone and anyone could be a target, with the trigger ready to pulled, you will be singing a different tune.
Let's you and me appeal to the Islamic faithful to act more decisively on a global scale, even requesting they perform 'evangelical' preaching into terrorists hotspots around the world, excommunicating errant mullahs or imans, to stop this targetting of innocents. If not, it will be other humans will have to do the job, one way or another, which we must avoid and avert.
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Originally posted by Jianye:
Tsk Tsk...2 days never online see all these....
1) Religion is developed to create a sense of spiritual calmness. However, the teachings must be revised to keep up to current times. Failing which, it will fail to protect its followers and allow terrorists to claim them. Thus, Islam is not the only religion already twisted by terrorists, but other religions are in danger too.
We have reached a point where no one religion or country is safe from terrorism.
We ought to help them in any way.
As for political, nationalistic cause, sadly to say, it's an abuse. The culprits have defiled what their ancestors taught them.
2) As for the invasion of Iraq, i have to be blunt--It's all about OIL. saddam doesn't want to give it to them, america bomb the shit out of iraq and kicked saddam out of power.
Needless to say, the invasion has only made the whole situation murkier than ever....no one knows what's going on...
Agree with you except for the 2nd point. Best we cleared it up once and for all so that there can be no sympathising or excuses for terrorists acts.
Let us depend on facts and NOT on conspiracy theories.
Fact is, US attacked Iraq because Sadam, the expansionist despot who invaded and murdered even people of his own religion, not only Iran but kuwait as well, had used the possesion of nuclear weapons or the lack of it to threaten the rest of the world.
Despite several datelines being redrawn to ensure that there is really NO nuclear weapons with this madman, he failed and ignored every plea from every fearful leader in the world to allow inspections. There was no need to hide anything. These are supposed nuclear warheads we are talking about, capable of wiping out a population and render the land uninhabitable for years, as well as the drift of nuclear wastes into the atmosphere destroying neighbouring lands, not a piece of seditious paper.
US did what it had to do, to ensure there really was no nukes, even though the CIA initially said there was. Casualties were kept to a minimum, and when the war was over in days, they had wanted to go home.
What ensued was that the outlawed Al Queda seized the opportunity to enter Iraq, and turn the US fight against Sadam, which the population welcomed and waved with american flags, into a religious war, for years as a measure to keep the iraq weak, killing its govt officials and security forces, and US confined in Iraq without linking up its armies in afghanistan. ( even now, it is attempting to make the US ally Pakistan engage in a war with india to prevent the allies from helping US. Al Queda must be bleeding now)
There had been conspiracy theories abound, but please, conspiracy theories are only good for reading on a bored night, but not based on actual fact. While there may have been complexities, let us sort out the facts and agree upon first.
Like a jigsaw puzzle, we look for corners and straight edges first in order to unravel a puzzle. Similarly, let us get the facts straight first before we even comtemplate the complex stuff, if it even exists, just like Elvis aint dead is even now still believed.
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Naturally, the US didn't bring Saddam to power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#Rise_to_power (Lets see if Wikipedia convinces you)
And Donald Rumsfield didn't pall around with Saddam.
Oh yeah....it was the US who sold Saddam the biochemicals to gas the Kurds.
How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons- http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html
It makes me sick when people like you can deny blatant historical facts and label it as "conspiracy theories".
When the US claims it is spreading freedom and democracy round the world, do you really believe it? When they prop up a narcotics state like Kosovo after some "humanitarian bombing", stir up chaos in the Middle East and continue to destabilise Latin America, it really shows how effective the MSM conditioning is.
No one needs conspiracy theories, we need some straight talk instead of bullshit bold-faced lying rhetoric.
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Saddam tried to build nukes, but his experimental reactor got bombed by the Israelis. Rather than a rogue program, Saddam's nuclear program was built up by the French who wanted to curry favour with oil-rich Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak#Design_and_construction (Again, even Wikipedia acknowledges this "conspiracy theory" despite how I hate quoting from Wikipedia).
After the Israeli bombing in 1981, Iraq, which was enbroiled in war with Iran (in which Iraq used chemical weapons from the US against the Iranians) could have hardly resurrected its nuclear program. Coupled with the 1991 mini Shock and Awe, and the 10 years+ bombing by enforcing Western warplanes, the Iraqi military was in no shape to pose a threat to the 2nd Iraq Invasion.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
It also show how other religious terrorism are always side tracked when we talk about terrorism, it's always focused on one religion.Terrorism is a issue not bond by religions, cultures or nations.
If you chose to see it as "belonging" to one religion, please...please open your eyes too.
It's always focused on one particular religion because the followers always claimed that they were oppressed. How are they being oppressed?