Wiping out the root of terrorism
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Agree with you except for the 2nd point. Best we cleared it up once and for all so that there can be no sympathising or excuses for terrorists acts.
Let us depend on facts and NOT on conspiracy theories.
Fact is, US attacked Iraq because Sadam, the expansionist despot who invaded and murdered even people of his own religion, not only Iran but kuwait as well, had used the possesion of nuclear weapons or the lack of it to threaten the rest of the world.
Despite several datelines being redrawn to ensure that there is really NO nuclear weapons with this madman, he failed and ignored every plea from every fearful leader in the world to allow inspections. There was no need to hide anything. These are supposed nuclear warheads we are talking about, capable of wiping out a population and render the land uninhabitable for years, as well as the drift of nuclear wastes into the atmosphere destroying neighbouring lands, not a piece of seditious paper.
US did what it had to do, to ensure there really was no nukes, even though the CIA initially said there was. Casualties were kept to a minimum, and when the war was over in days, they had wanted to go home.
What ensued was that the outlawed Al Queda seized the opportunity to enter Iraq, and turn the US fight against Sadam, which the population welcomed and waved with american flags, into a religious war, for years as a measure to keep the iraq weak, killing its govt officials and security forces, and US confined in Iraq without linking up its armies in afghanistan. ( even now, it is attempting to make the US ally Pakistan engage in a war with india to prevent the allies from helping US. Al Queda must be bleeding now)
There had been conspiracy theories abound, but please, conspiracy theories are only good for reading on a bored night, but not based on actual fact. While there may have been complexities, let us sort out the facts and agree upon first.
Like a jigsaw puzzle, we look for corners and straight edges first in order to unravel a puzzle. Similarly, let us get the facts straight first before we even comtemplate the complex stuff, if it even exists, just like Elvis aint dead is even now still believed.
xtreyier, your practice of calling something a "conspiracy theory" and then running away (ignoring it) just demonstrates your intellectual cowardice despite your holier-than-thou attitude. If you accuse me of telling lies, then prove it.
And whatever information I referred to can be verified on the public domain. Its not like its Top Secret/SCI.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
That's why religions can be considered one of the many roots of terrorism.We should move to suppress every religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc) on this earth thus moving us one step towards achieving peace.
Do you agree with me?
Anyway to clear any misunderstanding, I'm not defending Islam (religion) or anything.
But I feel that religions are nothing but books containing texts written by people from the past, so you can't hate a religion rather you're hating every single followers of the faith and did everyone of them did something to incur your hatred towards them as a whole?
The communists destroyed more people's lives than all religions combined.
Still think that suppressing religions can achieve peace? You can go live an Ahteist's life in People's Democratic Republic Of Korea to escape persecution and live a peaceful life..
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Agree with you except for the 2nd point. Best we cleared it up once and for all so that there can be no sympathising or excuses for terrorists acts.
Let us depend on facts and NOT on conspiracy theories.
Fact is, US attacked Iraq because Sadam, the expansionist despot who invaded and murdered even people of his own religion, not only Iran but kuwait as well, had used the possesion of nuclear weapons or the lack of it to threaten the rest of the world.
Despite several datelines being redrawn to ensure that there is really NO nuclear weapons with this madman, he failed and ignored every plea from every fearful leader in the world to allow inspections. There was no need to hide anything. These are supposed nuclear warheads we are talking about, capable of wiping out a population and render the land uninhabitable for years, as well as the drift of nuclear wastes into the atmosphere destroying neighbouring lands, not a piece of seditious paper.
US did what it had to do, to ensure there really was no nukes, even though the CIA initially said there was. Casualties were kept to a minimum, and when the war was over in days, they had wanted to go home.
Oh yes, the almighty and holy USA has to make the world a better place by ridding the world of evil, WMDs wielding leaders.
Scott Ritter (one of the chief United Nation weapons inspectors in Iraq) stated that the WMDs Saddam had in his possession all those years ago has long since turned to harmless substances. Sarin and tabun have a shelf life of five years, VX lasts a bit longer (but not much longer), and finally botulinum toxin and liquid anthrax last about three years. On March 7, 2003, Hans Blix's last report to the UN security Council prior to the US led invasion of Iraq, described Iraq as actively and proactively cooperating with UNMOVIC, though not necessarily in all areas of relevance and had been frequently uncooperative in the past, but that it was within months of resolving key remaining disarmament tasks
If the USA can invade Iraq without UN approval, I wonder what other evils could the US government do if the Bush family still control the presidency.
Since the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the U.S. and UK had been engaged in a low-level attacks on Iraqi air defenses which targeted them while enforcing Iraqi no fly zones. These zones, and the attacks to enforce them, were described as illegal by the former UN Secretary General, Boutros Boutros-Ghali and the then French foreign minister, Hubert Vedrine. Other countries, notably Russia and China, also condemned the zones as a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. In mid-2002, the U.S. began more carefully selecting targets in the southern part of the country to disrupt the military command structure in Iraq and "pressure" the Iraqi Government into providing a pretext for war.
Woah, seems like the US and UK just wanted a reason to attack Iraq to topple Saddam...and they chosen to cook up some lame shit.
What ensued was that the outlawed Al Queda seized the opportunity to enter Iraq, and turn the US fight against Sadam, which the population welcomed and waved with american flags, into a religious war, for years as a measure to keep the iraq weak, killing its govt officials and security forces, and US confined in Iraq without linking up its armies in afghanistan. ( even now, it is attempting to make the US ally Pakistan engage in a war with india to prevent the allies from helping US. Al Queda must be bleeding now)
You seems to have forgotten the tensions between the Sunni and Shia Iraqis, Sunnis accused Shias of being traitors to Iraq because Iran shia leaders have strong ties with Iraqi shias since Iraq and Iran are enemies thus resulting in conflicts between the two groups turning it into a Civil War that's going on today.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
The communists destroyed more people's lives than all religions combined.
Still think that suppressing religions can achieve peace? You can go live an Ahteist's life in People's Democratic Republic Of Korea to escape persecution and live a peaceful life..
Escape persecution from what?I'm not an atheist so why should I live an atheist life?
Suppressing in a "good" way not LKY way of suppressing us...
Originally posted by googoomuck:It's always focused on one particular religion because the followers always claimed that they were oppressed. How are they being oppressed?
Followers of other religions are also claiming they were being oppressed thus born terrorist groups of these religions.National Liberation Front of Tripura
Jewish Defense League
Khalistan Commando Force
People from religious groups are always claiming they were being oppressed. And even non-believers are claiming they were being oppressed.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Okay, let's analyze your post:
Imperialistic means the attitude of superiority, subordination and dominion over foreign people— a chauvinism and comportment relegating foreign people to a lesser social and or political status.
So maybe we should suppress all religions right since they posses an danger towards we free men?
What is a secular world?
So whose fault? The people or the religion? You seems to be confused...
Are you sure there are no street protests?
Muslim march over shrine bombinghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4751122.stm
Muslims in Germany march against terror
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/21/content_2244315.htm
Massive Muslim Demonstration In Morroco 'Against Al Qaida'
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/11/massive_muslim.php
Indian Muslims Against Terrorism
http://www.thesouthasian.org/archives/2008/indian_muslims_against_terrori.html
London rally against terrorism/extremism
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/329
Are you sure your eyes are open?
Yes, we fear the people not the religion.
Nice try to defend the religion of peace. You must be specific on what the protests were about.
The protests were against terror by Muslims against Muslims -
- the bombing of al-Askari shrine!
- protest against Al - Qaida's decision to kill two Moroccan hostages
Excerpts from one article from the link:
- It is significant to note that while denouncing terrorism done by Muslim groups (and simultaneously condemning terrorism engaged in by states and by non-Muslim forces), these meetings have not explicitly critiqued any Muslim group engaged in terrorism by name.
Excerpts from another article on protests in London:
it was primarily concerning terrorism in Iraq, there were no references towards the London bombings really. Loads of anti Wahabi sentiment. Peaceful…but still…slightly ‘odd’ and I cant explain it.
Why protest? Because Muslim terrorists were murdering Muslims in Iraq. It's not about killing infidels.
- the bombing of al-Askari shrine!
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Escape persecution from what?I'm not an atheist so why should I live an atheist life?
Suppressing in a "good" way not LKY way of suppressing us...
Followers of other religions are also claiming they were being oppressed thus born terrorist groups of these religions.National Liberation Front of Tripura
Jewish Defense League
Khalistan Commando Force
People from religious groups are always claiming they were being oppressed. And even non-believers are claiming they were being oppressed.
By reading the way you argue about terrorism, I gather that you must be a Muslim then.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Nice try to defend the religion of peace. You must be specific on what the protests were about.
The protests were against terror by Muslims against Muslims -
- the bombing of al-Askari shrine!
- protest against Al - Qaida's decision to kill two Moroccan hostages
Excerpts from one article from the link:
- It is significant to note that while denouncing terrorism done by Muslim groups (and simultaneously condemning terrorism engaged in by states and by non-Muslim forces), these meetings have not explicitly critiqued any Muslim group engaged in terrorism by name.
Excerpts from another article on protests in London:
it was primarily concerning terrorism in Iraq, there were no references towards the London bombings really. Loads of anti Wahabi sentiment. Peaceful…but still…slightly ‘odd’ and I cant explain it.
Why protest? Because Muslim terrorists were murdering Muslims in Iraq. It's not about killing infidels.
Religion of peace....lol.Everytime people want evidences of Muslims protesting aganist terrorism, they want Muslims protesting aganist terrorism aganist non-muslims.
It's a step for them to see that terrorism is bad and those evil imams are going against God by indirectly killing fellow followers of faith.
Originally posted by googoomuck:By reading the way you argue about terrorism, I gather that you must be a Muslim then.
No sorry to pop your bubbles, I'm not.
Reading the way you argue in here, I gather you must be anti-Muslim. Yes?This second post is about how religious people are always claiming that they are oppressed but is it real? How do you know? And not defending Islam as you said.
- the bombing of al-Askari shrine!
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Religion of peace....lol.Everytime people want evidences of Muslims protesting aganist terrorism, they want Muslims protesting aganist terrorism aganist non-muslims.
It's a step for them to see that terrorism is bad and these evil imams are going against God.
No sorry to pop your bubbles, I'm not.
Reading the way you aruge in here, I gather you must be anti-Muslim. Yes?This second post is about how religious people are always claiming that they are oppressed but is it real? How do you know? And not defending Islam as you said.
You are a Muslim because when I talk about oppression of the followers of religion of peace, which is Islam, you bring up
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Jewish Defense League
Khalistan Commando Force
How are the Muslims oppressed by those people that they terrorized on?
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Religion of peace....lol.Everytime people want evidences of Muslims protesting aganist terrorism, they want Muslims protesting aganist terrorism aganist non-muslims.
It's a step for them to see that terrorism is bad and those evil imams are going against God by indirectly killing fellow followers of faith.
No sorry to pop your bubbles, I'm not.
Reading the way you argue in here, I gather you must be anti-Muslim. Yes?This second post is about how religious people are always claiming that they are oppressed but is it real? How do you know? And not defending Islam as you said.
Look at the way you side-track
What people mean is why there is no outrage when the terrorsits murdered the infidels and you post links of Muslims protesting terrorism against their own bethren.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
You are a Muslim because when I talk about oppression of the followers of religion of peace, which is Islam, you bring up
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Jewish Defense League
Khalistan Commando Force
How are the Muslims oppressed by those people that they terrorized on?
So you're anti-Muslim, yes?Anyway do I follow Islam? No, so am I a Muslim? No.
How are the Muslims oppressed? Honestly, I don't think they are oppressed rather they are angered.
So I can't tell you how they are oppressed.
They are angered by the Americans interfering with Middle East politics and occupying Iraq.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Look at the way you side-track
What people mean is why there is no outrage when the terrorsits murdered the infidels and you post links of Muslims protesting terrorism against their own bethren.
Oh right, first they say why is there no action from the Muslims against terrorism.Then when the Muslims acted aganist terrorism, people say why they only protest against terrorism against their own people....
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Oh right, first they say why is there no action from the Muslims against terrorism.Then when the Muslims acted aganist terrorism, people say why they only protest against terrorism against their own people....
OK, OK. We know that you never stick to the point in your replies.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
7 years had passed by, my dear. 7 years to correct one simple mistake - misinterpretations. In that time, a 6 year old kid would have passed his PSLE exams, a JC student would have gotten his University degree, etc..need i elaborate more?Worse still, there had been cases of funding for these deviants of the great Islamic faith. Who had been sympathising with them? They should have been wiped out 7 years ago, yet they still exist not only in the middle east, but even in s-e asia.
It is incredulous that the Islamic faith could issue international 'Fatawas' against writers or act against couples kissing in public, and yet here the deviants are flagrantly besmirching their religion, which they admitted in 911, not only continues to walk boldly, they could even get funds and support!
Lotus, you may be a kind and soft hearted person, but i am sure that when a terrorist gun is pointed at your head, for terrorism has no mercy for anyone and anyone could be a target, with the trigger ready to pulled, you will be singing a different tune.
Let's you and me appeal to the Islamic faithful to act more decisively on a global scale, even requesting they perform 'evangelical' preaching into terrorists hotspots around the world, excommunicating errant mullahs or imans, to stop this targetting of innocents. If not, it will be other humans will have to do the job, one way or another, which we must avoid and avert.
correct mis interpretation
but you are resorting to whom to correct the misinterpretation, i believe most of the terrorist ,think US is the evil, i don't know whether it's about the misintepretation, US think terrorist is evil, terrorist think US is evil.And by the way, could you cite some example of the mis interpretation, how they distort Quran,as you said,
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Agree with you except for the 2nd point. Best we cleared it up once and for all so that there can be no sympathising or excuses for terrorists acts.
Let us depend on facts and NOT on conspiracy theories.
Fact is, US attacked Iraq because Sadam, the expansionist despot who invaded and murdered even people of his own religion, not only Iran but kuwait as well, had used the possesion of nuclear weapons or the lack of it to threaten the rest of the world.
Despite several datelines being redrawn to ensure that there is really NO nuclear weapons with this madman, he failed and ignored every plea from every fearful leader in the world to allow inspections. There was no need to hide anything. These are supposed nuclear warheads we are talking about, capable of wiping out a population and render the land uninhabitable for years, as well as the drift of nuclear wastes into the atmosphere destroying neighbouring lands, not a piece of seditious paper.
US did what it had to do, to ensure there really was no nukes, even though the CIA initially said there was. Casualties were kept to a minimum, and when the war was over in days, they had wanted to go home.
What ensued was that the outlawed Al Queda seized the opportunity to enter Iraq, and turn the US fight against Sadam, which the population welcomed and waved with american flags, into a religious war, for years as a measure to keep the iraq weak, killing its govt officials and security forces, and US confined in Iraq without linking up its armies in afghanistan. ( even now, it is attempting to make the US ally Pakistan engage in a war with india to prevent the allies from helping US. Al Queda must be bleeding now)
There had been conspiracy theories abound, but please, conspiracy theories are only good for reading on a bored night, but not based on actual fact. While there may have been complexities, let us sort out the facts and agree upon first.
Like a jigsaw puzzle, we look for corners and straight edges first in order to unravel a puzzle. Similarly, let us get the facts straight first before we even comtemplate the complex stuff, if it even exists, just like Elvis aint dead is even now still believed.
in fact i don't know much about sadam, how he is, is he despot? i know he had invade kuwait, start the gulf war. I guess, neither you know many about him as well, maybe what you know about him ,i from a US media , kind of distorted.
And about the inspection, i think sadam is a different kind of government with US, they may not be so familiar with the procedure or ways dealing with the international issue, but just like singapore, if US suspect singapore hiding Nuclear weapon, is US authorised to search the island, many country in the world have the nuclear weapon, are they consider as a threat in the world, nuclear weapon is a threat, no matter, in which country's hand. So i guess, sadam is with a little pride, would not like to bow his head to US. As because of this his country is invaded , and he is hanged.So unfortunate.
And some country would not like to open up, especially they are deemed as vulgar country, maybe some of you maybe have the same feeling with me, when you saw a woman wearing a veil, you wonder why she do that, you may think it's wierd, but in order to understand a different country, we need to know it, not discriminate,
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
OK, OK. We know that you never stick to the point in your replies.
Stop speaking for whoever you are trying to speak for, if it's your opinion just say "I" don't need try and group yourself with others.If you want to talk about me going out of point, take a look at your first post in this thread.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
And about the inspection, i think sadam is a different kind of government with US, they may not be so familiar with the procedure or ways dealing with the international issue, but just like singapore, if US suspect singapore hiding Nuclear weapon, is US authorised to search the island, many country in the world have the nuclear weapon, are they consider as a threat in the world, nuclear weapon is a threat, no matter, in which country's hand. So i guess, sadam is with a little pride, would not like to bow his head to US. As because of this his country is invaded , and he is hanged.So unfortunate.
That's the deal with US, if they suspect your country is hiding WMDs and your government doesn't like the US they will find every little loophole to invade your land.They think they are the Global Police to ensure peace.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
in fact i don't know much about sadam, how he is, is he despot? i know he had invade kuwait, start the gulf war. I guess, neither you know many about him as well, maybe what you know about him ,i from a US media , kind of distorted.
And about the inspection, i think sadam is a different kind of government with US, they may not be so familiar with the procedure or ways dealing with the international issue, but just like singapore, if US suspect singapore hiding Nuclear weapon, is US authorised to search the island, many country in the world have the nuclear weapon, are they consider as a threat in the world, nuclear weapon is a threat, no matter, in which country's hand. So i guess, sadam is with a little pride, would not like to bow his head to US. As because of this his country is invaded , and he is hanged.So unfortunate.
And some country would not like to open up, especially they are deemed as vulgar country, maybe some of you maybe have the same feeling with me, when you saw a woman wearing a veil, you wonder why she do that, you may think it's wierd, but in order to understand a different country, we need to know it, not discriminate,
What about Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea? Why isnt the US invading them? Well, maybe Pakistan's turn is coming soon.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
Stop speaking for whoever you are trying to speak for, if it's your opinion just say "I" don't need try and group yourself with others.Huh? I don't understand you leh? kekekeke
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
What about Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea? Why isnt the US invading them? Well, maybe Pakistan's turn is coming soon.
Did Israel and Pakistan do anything to upset the US? -
My point is that both have nukes, although they have not signed the NPT (Iran has by the way). The WMD case for Iraq is empty because the US sold Saddam biochemicals in the 1970s and 1980s and Saddam's nuclear program was built up by the French. The US invaded Iraq to control oil and because Saddam threatened USD hegemony by selling oil in Euros in 2000.
For Israel, AIPAC ensures that the US doesnt upset Israel.
Pakistan, on the other hand, is accused of the Mumbai attacks, refused to extradite terror suspects, tribal regions getting out of hand, threatening the imperialist army in Afghanistan. For a nation that was an US ally, things seem to be turning for the worse. Not that its necessarily Pakistan's fault. Could be staged just like Iraq. But I'm just saying that Pakistan could potentially be the next front on the War of Terror, I mean War on Terror.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
My point is that both have nukes, although they have not signed the NPT (Iran has by the way). The WMD case for Iraq is empty because the US sold Saddam biochemicals in the 1970s and 1980s and Saddam's nuclear program was built up by the French. The US invaded Iraq to control oil and because Saddam threatened USD hegemony by selling oil in Euros in 2000.
For Israel, AIPAC ensures that the US doesnt upset Israel.
Pakistan, on the other hand, is accused of the Mumbai attacks, refused to extradite terror suspects, tribal regions getting out of hand, threatening the imperialist army in Afghanistan. For a nation that was an US ally, things seem to be turning for the worse. Not that its necessarily Pakistan's fault. Could be staged just like Iraq. But I'm just saying that Pakistan could potentially be the next front on the War of Terror, I mean War on Terror.
Don't forget USA needs Israel and Pakistan.Israel is located in the Middle East, what is better than having an non-Muslim ally there?
Pakistan is a Muslim nation, +point for USA for having a Muslim ally.
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Well, having Muslim allies like Saudi Arabia and the gulf states.
And Obama did say that he would invade Pakistan if "terror" continued and US forces have regularly violated Pakistani sovereignty.
Anyway, no one was arguing about their relationship. I simply was pointing out that the WMD case for Iraq was fraudulent, nothing else.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Well, having Muslim allies like Saudi Arabia and the gulf states.
And Obama did say that he would invade Pakistan if "terror" continued and US forces have regularly violated Pakistani sovereignty.
Anyway, no one was arguing about their relationship. I simply was pointing out that the WMD case for Iraq was fraudulent, nothing else.
Lol, wasn't USA often criticized for having Saudi as an ally?
Well, I was just answering your question. No offense intended.
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Yeah, if you call yourself the leader of the "Free" world and a champion of "freedom" and "democracy", having pals like Saudi oil sheihks isnt really the wisest thing to do.
Wasnt offended at all.
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Don't you think these terrorists are attention loving people?