Wiping out the root of terrorism
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You want to turn the world Islamic and you kill people? How does that help you?
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Originally posted by rokkie:
in fact i don't know much about sadam, how he is, is he despot? i know he had invade kuwait, start the gulf war. I guess, neither you know many about him as well, maybe what you know about him ,i from a US media , kind of distorted.
And about the inspection, i think sadam is a different kind of government with US, they may not be so familiar with the procedure or ways dealing with the international issue, but just like singapore, if US suspect singapore hiding Nuclear weapon, is US authorised to search the island, many country in the world have the nuclear weapon, are they consider as a threat in the world, nuclear weapon is a threat, no matter, in which country's hand. So i guess, sadam is with a little pride, would not like to bow his head to US. As because of this his country is invaded , and he is hanged.So unfortunate.
And some country would not like to open up, especially they are deemed as vulgar country, maybe some of you maybe have the same feeling with me, when you saw a woman wearing a veil, you wonder why she do that, you may think it's wierd, but in order to understand a different country, we need to know it, not discriminate,
Rokkie, you are a prime example of why terrorism cannot be won by bullets alone. The anti-terrorism battle can only be won if it is fought in the minds of the masses, with facts, reason and logic - repeated and reinforced regularly.
If not, terrorism will only gain adherents, recruits and sympathisers who had been fed with conspiracy theories and misinformation as well as mis-interpretations, more so for those whose access to information is limited to the village headmen or iman.
For simplicity sake, i will use an analogy.
Your neighboour is a bastard. He not only beats up his wife and kids, he beats up his neighbours living next door both sides to him. Despite civil actions on him, he persisted in his ways, each time promising to behave, but still continue to do the same.
One day, others saw a big package being delivered into his house. His son revealed it was a torture rack. You as a neigbour decides to investigate, but he insists no. He admits to having a torture rack, but it is only for decorative purposes, without any metallic hooks or chains.Knowing his background, his history, and the abuse he does to his neighbours and family, you demand he let you in to check, to ensure it is only for decorations and not a contraption in order to protect everyone in the neighbourhood as well as his innocent kids.
You gave him time to open his door, but each dateline he refuses. You fear for his kids and the neighbourhood, and cannot trust this hoodlum. You barge in, and finds out only the wooded rack remain. There were no traces of metallic chains and hooks, perhaps he had already removed them.
The issue here is not one of an owner's right to his home and the priviledge to keep others out. The issue is - what is behind the doors of a habitual human abuser. If there was no delivery of a wooden rack, you would not have barged in, but only to complain to the police about his beatings of neighbours and kids.
But with that rack, which can kill, you have to act, otherwise, you too will one day end up on it when this mad neigbour, in his bouts of insanity, places hooks and chains on it.
Thus, similarly, Sadam is a insane person. And no one is about to trust him not to make nukes when he had actively threatened to do so.
He is insane. Not because the media said so, but because even his own countrymen who suffered under him said so, his own countrymen who judged and decides, hanged him and said so, the kurdish neigbours who had been gassed, said so, Iran, which had a long war with him, said so, Kuwaitis, who had their oil wells burned dry, said so.
Learn to find out the facts before you commit to anything. Never trust what conspiracy theorists claim, because while the theories are not lies, they are neither the truth - for example, if i were to drive to geylang, you can claim that i am visiting prostitutes.
But am I really visiting prostitutes? Or just to savour the great food there? Visiting geylang is a truth, but visiting prostitute may or may not be a truth, because you didnt see me enter a brothel.
But others will readily accept that both are truths when you tell it, for they don't know and just presume it so. There lies the danger of consipiracy theories. It muddles and confused issues, making something that is meant to be easy to comprehend becoming complex.
So becareful. Critically analyse info, even mine, online or libraries microfilm back copies of newspapers, OR you will end up being manipulated and used by others, espacially deviant terrorists into sympathizing them and their deeds.
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I have no fear of my multicultural fellow citizens here in Spore, because our efforts to promote peaceful living had been largely successful.
I have no fear that we this generation may have to pay the price for our mistake in not tackling fundamentalistic or deviant religious ideologies seriously and effectively.
I only fear that the next generation, whom are innocent, be the ones to suffer for our inactivity and apathy, and they will have to pay the price of being mercilessly cut down.
If we are indeed inactive as you so kindly spoke of, then how has previous efforts been successful if nothing has ever been even done? Irony.
Our own lives are not important, but for the sake of others and the next generations to come, it is a moral dilemma and a hard question we MUST confront and tackle it once and for all, as we come to grips and attempt to make sense of the brutal tragedy before our eyes.
If our own lives are of no importance and virtually worthless in your description, then how more does it make the lives of people of future generations more valued? Contradiction.
There more pressing issues at hand, like the Climate Change issue - it's far more important than any credit crunch which has ever surfaced or any terrorist attack (Theory goes: Climate Change = Affects the entire globe and our existence, not simply the survival of gagged hostages, and any financial matter would eventually be resolved, because it is after all WITHIN the Earth).
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Originally posted by TTT203:
I have no fear of my multicultural fellow citizens here in Spore, because our efforts to promote peaceful living had been largely successful.
I have no fear that we this generation may have to pay the price for our mistake in not tackling fundamentalistic or deviant religious ideologies seriously and effectively.
I only fear that the next generation, whom are innocent, be the ones to suffer for our inactivity and apathy, and they will have to pay the price of being mercilessly cut down.
If we are indeed inactive as you so kindly spoke of, then how has previous efforts been successful if nothing has ever been even done? Irony.
Our own lives are not important, but for the sake of others and the next generations to come, it is a moral dilemma and a hard question we MUST confront and tackle it once and for all, as we come to grips and attempt to make sense of the brutal tragedy before our eyes.
If our own lives are of no importance and virtually worthless in your description, then how more does it make the lives of people of future generations more valued? Contradiction.
There more pressing issues at hand, like the Climate Change issue - it's far more important than any credit crunch which has ever surfaced or any terrorist attack (Theory goes: Climate Change = Affects the entire globe and our existence, not simply the survival of gagged hostages, and any financial matter would eventually be resolved, because it is after all WITHIN the Earth).
Like you, i believe we are responsible for the mess we wrecked on the planet through our apathy or ignorance over many issues. The next generation are innocent and is not fair for us to leave them our mess.I am only one person and very focus on wiping out terrorism after 7 years of failure, terrorism of which a person can die anytime anyplace and anywhere faster than climate change can ever claim lives.
I sincerly wish you good luck at your Climate Change activism and hope you will enjoy good support in any thread in any forum you will participate in.
cheers!
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Rokkie, you are a prime example of why terrorism cannot be won by bullets alone. The anti-terrorism battle can only be won if it is fought in the minds of the masses, with facts, reason and logic - repeated and reinforced regularly.
If not, terrorism will only gain adherents, recruits and sympathisers who had been fed with conspiracy theories and misinformation as well as mis-interpretations, more so for those whose access to information is limited to the village headmen or iman.
For simplicity sake, i will use an analogy.
Your neighboour is a bastard. He not only beats up his wife and kids, he beats up his neighbours living next door both sides to him. Despite civil actions on him, he persisted in his ways, each time promising to behave, but still continue to do the same.
One day, others saw a big package being delivered into his house. His son revealed it was a torture rack. You as a neigbour decides to investigate, but he insists no. He admits to having a torture rack, but it is only for decorative purposes, without any metallic hooks or chains.Knowing his background, his history, and the abuse he does to his neighbours and family, you demand he let you in to check, to ensure it is only for decorations and not a contraption in order to protect everyone in the neighbourhood as well as his innocent kids.
You gave him time to open his door, but each dateline he refuses. You fear for his kids and the neighbourhood, and cannot trust this hoodlum. You barge in, and finds out only the wooded rack remain. There were no traces of metallic chains and hooks, perhaps he had already removed them.
The issue here is not one of an owner's right to his home and the priviledge to keep others out. The issue is - what is behind the doors of a habitual human abuser. If there was no delivery of a wooden rack, you would not have barged in, but only to complain to the police about his beatings of neighbours and kids.
But with that rack, which can kill, you have to act, otherwise, you too will one day end up on it when this mad neigbour, in his bouts of insanity, places hooks and chains on it.
Thus, similarly, Sadam is a insane person. And no one is about to trust him not to make nukes when he had actively threatened to do so.
He is insane. Not because the media said so, but because even his own countrymen who suffered under him said so, his own countrymen who judged and decides, hanged him and said so, the kurdish neigbours who had been gassed, said so, Iran, which had a long war with him, said so, Kuwaitis, who had their oil wells burned dry, said so.
But in this example: you will get charged for trespassing and get a fine.
What did other nations do to USA after they found out that there is no WMDs in Iraq? NOTHING! USA make life even worser for the Iraqis, seriously which war in our history made the lives of the citizens of an invaded country better?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
You want to turn the world Islamic and you kill people? How does that help you?
They want the attention, so they restort to killing people. It's the most effective way to get our attention isn't it? -
They just want attention? Arent there many other ways to do that besides killing people? I thought the common perception of Islamic terrorists is that they want to conquer the world for Allah.
I didnt know "conspiracy theorists" were terrorist sympathisers. Guess the ISD has a lot of work to do.
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There is a misconception that the ordinary Iraqis are worse off after the American and her allies liberated the Iraqis from Saddam's clutches.
From a report in March 2007, a survey of 5,000 Iraqis indicates:
One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad.
But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed on 30 December 2006, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.
Only the Iraqis who are so desperate for disasters in Iraq are worse off today.
No Iraqi will miss Saddam except those who benefited under his brutal rule.
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Oh really?
Iraq today with no clean water, no electricity, no employment, rampant disease and crime, bombings, pollution, kidnappings, sectarian civil war, desperation is better than under an authoritarian and secular Saddam Hussein?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Oh really?
Iraq today with no clean water, no electricity, no employment, rampant disease and crime, bombings, pollution, kidnappings, sectarian civil war, desperation is better than under an authoritarian and secular Saddam Hussein?
Blame the insurgents and the remnants of the Baath Party for the destruction of infrastructures, for instilling fear in the people. Don't blame the Americans.
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The only 'insurgents' in Iraq are only those that are fighting against a foreign occupying power. Of course the Western-dominated media portrays them as terrorists.
As for the Baath Party, those secular Arabs were more capable of securing order than the fundamentalists running around now.
Having seen how the British purposely incites violence by having commandoes dressed as Arabs and driving explosives around and bringing in tanks to bust them out after they're caught, and also the Pentagon's P2OG, is testament to the chaos which the occupying powers have caused.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-09-19-british-basra_x.htm
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
The only 'insurgents' in Iraq are only those that are fighting against a foreign occupying power. Of course the Western-dominated media portrays them as terrorists.
As for the Baath Party, those secular Arabs were more capable of securing order than the fundamentalists running around now.
Having seen how the British purposely incites violence by having commandoes dressed as Arabs and driving explosives around and bringing in tanks to bust them out after they're caught, and also the Pentagon's P2OG, is testament to the chaos which the occupying powers have caused.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-09-19-british-basra_x.htm
Of course the Baath Party can secure order - by brutal force !
How many Iraqis who had suffered under Saddam's rule would want to see the Baath party return to power? I can think of only his cronies. The Kurds and the Shias certainly don't want the return of those days under Saddam.
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Of course I dont think well of Saddam's brutality. But what about those two of the many atrocities committed by the Western forces?
Did you even see that? Or do you think they're "conspiracy theories"?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Of course I dont think well of Saddam's brutality. But what about those two of the many atrocities committed by the Western forces?
Did you even see that? Or do you think they're "conspiracy theories"?
What atrocities by the western forces?
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Having seen how the British purposely incites violence by having commandoes dressed as Arabs and driving explosives around and bringing in tanks to bust them out after they're caught, and also the Pentagon's P2OG, is testament to the chaos which the occupying powers have caused.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-09-19-british-basra_x.htm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/DK05Ak02.html
Besides that, American use of DU in Iraq has caused cancer rates to increase more than 1000%.
Fuelling the civil war (see above) which has caused more than a million deaths and displacing more than 4 million Iraqis.
Mercs like Blackwater indiscriminately kill civilians, bring weapons into Iraq and oops, lose them.
Right...you dont fix something if you break it.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Having seen how the British purposely incites violence by having commandoes dressed as Arabs and driving explosives around and bringing in tanks to bust them out after they're caught, and also the Pentagon's P2OG, is testament to the chaos which the occupying powers have caused.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-09-19-british-basra_x.htm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/DK05Ak02.html
Besides that, American use of DU in Iraq has caused cancer rates to increase more than 1000%.
Fuelling the civil war (see above) which has caused more than a million deaths and displacing more than 4 million Iraqis.
Mercs like Blackwater indiscriminately kill civilians, bring weapons into Iraq and oops, lose them.
Right...you dont fix something if you break it.
You seems to post only links to alleged US 'atrocities' in Iraq but mentioned none of the gruesome nature in which the insurgents and the Arab civilians acted.
Since you mentioned blackwater indiscriminately killed civilians, I'll give just one example here, of how the Blackwater mercenaries were treated. Some civilians were not innocent as you would like to have people think. They are Sunni Arabs.
<It is one of the most infamous incidents of the war in Iraq: On March 31, 2004, four private American security contractors get lost and end up driving through the center of Falluja, a hotbed of Sunni resistance to the US occupation. Shortly after entering the city, they get stuck in traffic, and their small convoy is ambushed. Several armed men approach the two vehicles and open fire from behind, repeatedly shooting the men at point-blank range. Within moments, their bodies are dragged from the vehicles and a crowd descends on them, tearing them to pieces. Eventually, their corpses are chopped and burned. The remains of two of the men are strung up on a bridge over the Euphrates River and left to dangle. The gruesome image is soon beamed across the globe.>
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This is a country at war. I dont deny the horrible things that the Iraqis commit against Western forces. Killing cannot be whitewashed by any euphemisms, even fighting against an occupying forces.
But you seem to think that the US is a beacon of freedom and democracy in Iraq. DU is a serious problem, not a conspiracy theory. 1500-2000 tons were vapourised into the air when DU bombs landed on Iraq during Shock and Awe. Similar weaponry were used in Kosovo and spread radioactivity across Yugoslavia. Isn't that just like using nukes?
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What do you mean alleged? Those things really happened. Do you claim otherwise?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
They just want attention? Arent there many other ways to do that besides killing people? I thought the common perception of Islamic terrorists is that they want to conquer the world for Allah.
I didnt know "conspiracy theorists" were terrorist sympathisers. Guess the ISD has a lot of work to do.
Did I say they just want attention?Which sentence, which line?
I said they want attention fullstop.
They want attention to let the world know they are the people who are going to conquer Islamic world, and also to ask their their fellow followers to join them.
If not, why would they video taped the bombing of the Buddhist statues?
Guess someone is the watchdog for ISD in here...better be careful.
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If they already have "fellow followers", why do they even need to convince anyone?
If you want to persuade someone to join your cause, do you go around killing people? I wouldn't.
I'm flattered.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
If they already have "fellow followers", why do they even need to convince anyone?
If you want to persuade someone to join your cause, do you go around killing people? I wouldn't.
I'm flattered.
Not fellow followers of the terrorist, but the Muslim faith.
Just because you're a member of a group, doesn't it mean that you will 100% do whatever the group wants to do?They want to convince those Muslims, who refuse to join their so-called "Jihad" that they are the "good" guys and the people on the other side are the "bad" guys.
Did I say it's the only way? Or did I say it's the most effective way to them?
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I'm waiting to get an email or even a flyer soliciting people to join in Jihad against the West.
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I might add, Jihad against the West so as to give Western governments a pretext to accumulate more police powers over their citizens.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
This is a country at war. I dont deny the horrible things that the Iraqis commit against Western forces. Killing cannot be whitewashed by any euphemisms, even fighting against an occupying forces.
But you seem to think that the US is a beacon of freedom and democracy in Iraq. DU is a serious problem, not a conspiracy theory. 1500-2000 tons were vapourised into the air when DU bombs landed on Iraq during Shock and Awe. Similar weaponry were used in Kosovo and spread radioactivity across Yugoslavia. Isn't that just like using nukes?
As if the use of biological and chemical weapons on enemies - both soldiers and civilians - by Saddam's army is not serious enough to mention.
It's no secret that the US has DU ammo in it's arsenal. Any country that wants to go to war with the US army must have known this.
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Yeah I mentioned that he used them on the Kurds and the Iranians. But who sold them to him? The US. France built Saddam's nuclear program. I'm not saying who has the higher moral ground, all parties involved are scum.
Similarly, if you know that the US is using DU munitions, that spread high levels of radioactivity round the world, scarring the Iraqi population, is it even humane?
We always focus on the leaders, while the ordinary people suffers.