Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On
-
Originally posted by Jarhum:
Dear Xtreyer,
I would like to point out several inconsistencies and ambiguity in your facts.
1) Palestine leading up to Israel’s inauguration in 1948 was occupied by majoritily Arabs with a mere 5% Jewish populace. In modern history, the Jews never really did governed the land of Palestine. It has been changing hands between the Muslims and Christians.
3) The Jews were promised sovereignty of Palestine long before 1920 and this was ratified with the Balfour Declaration of 1917. (A controversial condition attached to this was Chaim Weizmann’s talents in producing accetone which is greatly required for Britain’s war efforts).
4) Ben Gurion, A Zionist declared Israeli independence himself. It was only in 1949 that U.N gave it official recognition. Only 13 nations initially gave Israel de jure recognation, not the entire world.
5) It was not Israel which was not wanted in other parts of the world minus Germany but it is their utmost desire to claim their so-called biblical right to Palestine.
6)In 1967, Israel was the entity which conducted preemptive strikes on its Arab neighbour which caught them in surprise. The Arab nations attacked only in retaliation. It was only the Yom Kippur War which the Arab nations combined to go to war with Israel.
So do not attempt to boast writings of a pathetic shot at scholarly analysis when you can’t even get your facts and dates right.
As I mention unconditional support for this Zionist cause will cause mayhem for you and your family and all of us.
Why do I find myself not amused?
-
Originally posted by Jarhum:
Dear Xtreyer,
I would like to point out several inconsistencies and ambiguity in your facts.
1) Palestine leading up to Israel’s inauguration in 1948 was occupied by majoritily Arabs with a mere 5% Jewish populace. In modern history, the Jews never really did governed the land of Palestine. It has been changing hands between the Muslims and Christians.
3) The Jews were promised sovereignty of Palestine long before 1920 and this was ratified with the Balfour Declaration of 1917. (A controversial condition attached to this was Chaim Weizmann’s talents in producing accetone which is greatly required for Britain’s war efforts).
4) Ben Gurion, A Zionist declared Israeli independence himself. It was only in 1949 that U.N gave it official recognition. Only 13 nations initially gave Israel de jure recognation, not the entire world.
5) It was not Israel which was not wanted in other parts of the world minus Germany but it is their utmost desire to claim their so-called biblical right to Palestine.
6)In 1967, Israel was the entity which conducted preemptive strikes on its Arab neighbour which caught them in surprise. The Arab nations attacked only in retaliation. It was only the Yom Kippur War which the Arab nations combined to go to war with Israel.
So do not attempt to boast writings of a pathetic shot at scholarly analysis when you can’t even get your facts and dates right.
As I mention unconditional support for this Zionist cause will cause mayhem for you and your family and all of us.
Thank you Jarhum.
But I got something to add. If you want to talk about British involvement, then we should all be British-bashing because the Brits promised Palestine then, to three different parties:
"Britain conquered Palestine from the Turks in 1917-18. First Her Majesty's Government promised Palestine to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration in 1917, and then again in the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine of 1922, in which it solemnly accepted as "a sacred trust of civilization" to "be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home." Then it repudiated that promise in a "White Paper" of 1939, which announced her intention to allow only 75,000 Jewish immigrants into Palestine over the next five years (this as World War II and the Holocaust was just beginning) and after that to allow no further Jewish immigration without Arab consent. The White Paper also placed severe restrictions on the purchase of land by Jews. And it promised the Palestinian Arabs that Palestine would become an independent Arab state within ten years. All this was in flagrant violations of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine; the League of Nations Mandates Commission noted this, and refused to ratify the White Paper. Britain implemented it anyway -- to the extent of refusing to admit to Palestine 750 Jews who had managed to escape Nazi Europe in a leaky boat while the Holocaust was in full swing. The Jews were forced to turn back into the human-shark-infested waters of the Black Sea, where their leaky crate was torpedoed, and all but one of them killed.
....
Having already promised Palestine to both the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs, Britain after World War II promised it again, this time to Syria! Secret British correspondence, recently discovered by an Israeli scholar, not in the archives of Britain but in those of France, which intercepted British and Syrian communications through espionage, reveals that the British promised to hand over Palestine to Syria in return for making Britain Syria's "protector" to replace France. The British even assisted the Syrians to carry out a massacre of French civilians and soldiers in order to force France out of Syria.
Britain encouraged the Arab states to form an "Arab League" as World War II came to an end. A British representative sat in on the League's meetings and raised no objections as the Arab states planned to invade Palestine -- even though Palestine was still under British control!"- Triple Cross: How Britain Created the Arab-Israel Conflict- http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/triple_cross_how_britain_creat.html -
Originally posted by xtreyier:
Another long winded opinionated piece, ignoring facts, from a site of no accountability.
Are you here to discuss solutions or lay blame on everyone else, and become a tool of terrorists propaganda?
The facts are:-
1. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It broke the truce by Egypt and fired missiles into Israel urban centres with intention to murder innocent men, women and children.
2. Israel, which any other nation would have retaliated before even the 2nd missile landed, had restrain themselves when faced such oppression with more than 200 missiles daily for months. No one called for a halt in hama's agression.
3. Israel realized they are alone, and retaliated last week, as any nation would to prevent further dead in their homeland.
Whatever happened 1400 years ago, who was right or who was right, what was conspired, is immaterial. The fact is that the carnage is now happening, and death of innocents are happening on BOTH sides which must end.
Hamas, a terrorist organisation dedicated to the death of innocents to achieve their national agenda, recieves sympathies, funds and recruits from faithful muslims thru a misinterpretation on their holy book.
Faithful muslims around the world assured the human race that they condemn terrorism and terrorists acts - killing of innocent men, women and children - done in their religion's name, which is a mis-interpretation of their holy book, no matter the causes, since 911.
Therefore it is time now for the faithful muslims around the world, without any excuses, must honour their words - to condemn the factual terrorists acts conducted by Hamas, whom slay innocent people in Israel thru their daily missile barrage, as well as now hiding amongst the civilian population ensuring more innocents die in facing Israel's wrath.
The muslims must condemn the atrocities of Hamas, capture their terrorists and turn them over to the authorities, and place more effort to correct the misinterpretation of their holy book so that no more muslims be misled or used by evil men.
Terrritorial claims can be civiliy discussed, but not by piling innocents dead in the meeting room.
I am under no illusion that my written word here will have any effect or even read by anyone, but hope is like a droplet of water into the ocean which will affect the tide, and when more considers my post, it will be a Tsunami of change that will help our fellow humans in the middle east.
Do you know which side has the most casualties? The Israeli side using the world's 4th largest military, or the Gazan "terrorists", using homemade weaponry?
If you're really concerned about human life, you're not doing a good job in showing that you are.
Have you proven that GlobalResearch has no accountability? Tell me, I don't have ESP.
-
Originally posted by Display Name:
It is known facts that Israel has invaded and occupied lands of neighoubring countries.
That's why the people retaliate and being resistance to Israel occupation.
Is this occupation justified just because the victims are muslim? No
Is it justifiable for Israel army to launch mass attack to neighbouring countries just because the people retaliate their invasion? depends on each individual.
Israel problem is actually a plot from US. US want to control this oil producing area but they don't have the moral ground to attack and colonize these area, that's why they build a strong war machine agent there, to control the nearby countries, at any cost.
Israel conflict with other arab nations will be reduced when following occur:
1) When the oil storage finish, or if the world has discover a cheaper alternative of oil
2) When the American Jews no longer control the elite and the thinking of US government
3) Of coz also if Israel return the land that they occupied during many wars in the past. Or Arabians surrender to Israel, give away their lands and migrate to other place.It's a myth!
How can a small Jewish nation has ambitions to invade and occupy bigger Arab nations? It makes the Arabs stupid, isn't it?
-
Originally posted by Jarhum:
6)In 1967, Israel was the entity which conducted preemptive strikes on its Arab neighbour which caught them in surprise. The Arab nations attacked only in retaliation ?!
That's another myth !
Seven to eight Arab nations amassed their troops on 3 fronts.
The Egyptian navy's blockade of Israel's port of Eilat alone is an act of war.
Do you know the meaning of preemtive strike?
-
Originally posted by freedomclub:
Really? Gaza has frequently been described as an open air prison with 1.5 million prisoners. Since 2007, Israel has restricted medical supplies, food and fuel from reaching the Gazans, destroying all semblence of a proper life. In addition, Israeli settlers regularly harass the Palestinians with the protection of the IDF.
Description is purely opinions based on value systems.
It was easy for the 1.5 million "prisoners" to change their living conditions if they had rejected the politics propounded by HAMAS.
Why are the same Palestinians living on the West Bank not living in similar "prison like conditions" ?
If you succumb to propaganda and propound it further with your own preferred twist of the situation, it does not help anyone to understand the present events any clearer.
It is fortunate for us to live in a different part of the World, and see it as "disinterested" parties with no special agenda, and view the events without any colored lens, or any emotional hang-ups - and pass our judgment based on the facts of the events, with our own values.
The "facts" depend on how and where you gather these from.
How is using F-16s against homemade rockets and bombs not like molotov cocktails against Panzer tanks? In fact, today's comparison is even more ridiculous.
I agree that any nation has the right to self-defence, naturally Israel as well. And that includes Iran.
The UN-GUIDED missiles or rockets fired by HAMAS are deliberately aimed or directed to land into the midst of Israeli civilian areas to cause maximum destruction.
These are not molotov cocktails.
At least the Israeli are taking pains to retaliate by using laser guided bombs that target HAMAS militant strongholds and missile or rocket manufacturing facilities.
Compared to the cheap HAMAS rockets, these Israeli laser guided bombs and missiles would have cost at least 20 to 50 times more - and would have already shown the difference in the effort at minimising civilian casualties.
The fact that Palestinian casualties have occurred is due to the deliberate effort of HAMAS to locate these high-explosives manufacturing facilities in the middle of densely populated area - in TOTAL DIS-REGARD to their OWN POPULACE - shows the callous attitude of the HAMAS leadership towards even their own people.
If you agree that Israel or Iran - or any nation - has the right to self-defense - is there any need to agonise over the Israeli response to HAMAS irresponsible and callous acts towards Human Lives - whether be it Israelis or their own Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip ?
But, if it continues oppressing the Palestinian people, expanding settlements that harrass Palestinians, restricting medical supplies, food and fuel, putting up an obscene amount of checkpoints that make life horribly inconvenient (and thats an understatement) for the Gazans, then why should the Gazans take it lying down? Tell me, does Israel deserve retaliation from its inhumane behaviour?
Is Israel continuing to oppress the Palestinian people - or are you succumbing to propaganda ?
The previous Israeli Prime Minister Sharon - who died of heart failure - was one of the stoutest propounder of Israeli settlements on occupied territories.
Yet he was also one of the strongest advocate to forcibly remove large segments of the Israeli settlements from occupied territory, in exchange for Peace - and at a high price of his own political unpopularity amongst the Israeli settlers.
Sharon insisted on the mass removal of the Israeli settlers, as he realised that the Israeli settlements on occupied territory will only stretch Israeli military resources, and will only weaken their position in the face of mounting Palestinian civiliarn unrest in their well ochestrated INTIFADAH.
Israel had offered a negotiated and permanent settlement to allow a TWO-State solution to exist - this was rejected by the previous Palestinian Leader Arafat, who felt his position was better off having a prolonged stand-off than a resolution, as this guaranteed continued financial support from the other Arab countries.
Now that Arafat is dead and gone, the present Palestinian President Abbas efforts have been sabotaged by HAMAS refusal to negotiate with Israel, and insist on their Iranian supported foolish ambitious goal of having Israel totally anihilated.
The Palestinians in Gaza can taking it in any position they wish, as long as they continue with their foolishness in taking on Israel by threatening the Israeli civilians, they have only themselves to blame for the Israeli retaliation that will certainly come.
This is the Middle-eastern principle of "an eye for an eye" - as is propounded by the fundamentalist Islamic believers.
If Egypt blocks its border with Gaza, then it is complicit with the inhumane bloodshed. Thats why Egyptian flags were also burned during riots. Even though Palestinians are Arabs, the other Arab countries refuse to treat them like brothers. So such for the Islamic brotherhood.
Complicity requires more then just blocking the border with Gaza.
The Palestinians in Gaza can burn all the flags of all the countries on earth, but they will not be getting any sympathy as that given to the USA on 9-11 - even from the worst protagonists of the US.
If HAMAS and their Palestinian supporters in the Gaza Strip play with fire, they have to learn to live with the fire they have created for themselves.
No point attempting to look for sympathy from the World Community if they cannot control the fire that they have started.
-
Originally posted by freedomclub:
Do you know which side has the most casualties? The Israeli side using the world's 4th largest military, or the Gazan "terrorists", using homemade weaponry?
If you're really concerned about human life, you're not doing a good job in showing that you are.
Have you proven that GlobalResearch has no accountability? Tell me, I don't have ESP.
Perhaps you also have to ask who gave that justification to the Israeli to start the war?
-
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
What facts? More like shades of gray.
Shades of grey?
Whom does USA belongs to today with its achievements?
Chyennes, Pawnees, Sioux, and a whole lotta other minor indian tribes, Spain and England?Whom does China belongs to today with its achievements?
Xiongnu, Shangs, Hans, Chins, Mongols, Manchus, a whole lotta other tribes, Germans, Japan, and England?Whom does Malaysia belongs to today with its achievements?
Dyaks, Orang Aslis, Summatrians, Majuhapians, Indonesians, Chinese, Indian, Portuguese, England?After 2 world wars, the world's humanity, led by the victor USA, evoloved into full emanciapation of mankind from the bondage of serfdom, tyranny and oppression by monarchists, tribal leaders and colonnialism.
Colonnialism was dismantled and replaced with democracy and its following democratic processes to serve humanity, even fof the losers of the war - Germany, Japan and axis powers, which in another age, would have been sold as slaves.
A new freedom for humanity rang in the air with the formation of UN, made up of representatives from population centres, using majority vote to arbitrate freedoms for the oppressed and those in national disagreements, so that the wars of conquests be avoided.
Everyone to their borders, and those who seek for military expansion of their borders, will face the wrath of an united nation made up of a diversity of humans who share this world.
There must be a point whereby ancient tribal fueds must cease over land and other issues so that a new generation may grow up in peace. By 1945, the world's humanity had suffered enough watching their loved ones die before their eyes.
Thus humanity's solution was to remove historical baggages, end warfare and oppression where it exists and promote democracy where possible.
Unfortunately, in the middle east, there exists men and women whom shares our world, are unwilling to embrace a new world and new realities for the new generation.
They use ancient holy texts twisted to their ideology of land expansion by promoting hate, anger, oppression and murder of others anywhere to acheive their barbaric delusions of conquest granduer.
Oppressions can be ended on a negotiation table.
But murder of innocents using religion twisted is an ideology that will only end us all into the grave. More so a religion that had made peace with the world for hundreds of years after the excesses of the dark middle ages, and had seen scientific progress as well as the evolution of mankind leaping into the stars.
Only by correcting the mis-interpretation in the holy book, thus nullifying barbaric agression ideology, will more come forward to the negotiation table to address claims of oppression or sovereignity.
We ALL are humans, and each do have a right to live in peace on our planet, which can only be shared and not owned by any one individual or individuals, regardless of his/her race, politics or religion.
-
In my opinion:
Hamas is a terrorist organization. No sympathy to people who don't give any consideration to human lives.
Also, in Hamas idealogy, they are sworn to the destruction of Israel. No matter how much concessions Israel makes, they do not believe in the existence of Israel. Given such an extreme thought, I would say you don't give the other person much choice in negotiations.
-
Hamas dun recognise the existence of the State of Israel... negotiate ff ?Thats why.. i support the tanks!
-
The previous war with lebanon was a military and political disaster for Israel, I believed they have learnt painful lessons from it. And israel is not going to let history repeat itself, the credibility of the IDF is at stake here.Someone posted this statement on youtube,"The gazans are learning that getting rocketed by israelis is not nearly as much fun as rocketing israelis. It's a learning curve. Let's see if the gazans are capable of learning. So far, it does not look promising."lol wtf.
-
hahaha
-
Palestinians so funny, if Israel want to occupy their land, they should surrender and give lands to them mah.
Likewise, mindef should tell the army, if any country invade singapore, they should drop their weapon so they won't be labelled as terrorist. :) -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
It's a myth!
How can a small Jewish nation has ambitions to invade and occupy bigger Arab nations? It makes the Arabs stupid, isn't it?
So you're saying that Israel has one of the weakest militaries in the Middle-East?
-
Originally posted by Jarhum:
So do not attempt to boast writings of a pathetic shot at scholarly analysis when you can’t even get your facts and dates right.
As I mention unconditional support for this Zionist cause will cause mayhem for you and your family and all of us.
Dear Jarhum,
I take special exception to your chilly phrase:-"unconditional support for this Zionist cause will cause mayhem for you and your family."
Is this an implied threat to me and my family?
Rest assured, I would prefer to look the other way, being all annonymous to each but most probably known by the authorities, but there will be others who may not be so kind, to your post which smack right out of an arab propoganda page, for it ignore facts and fully subjective from the sole twisted viewpoint of the arabs.
You can continue your baseless accusation of me leaning towards the jews, but from each and every of my post, I stand only on the objective humanitarian side.
I, along with may other humanitarian of different faiths, even the moderate muslim faith, call for a truce, ON BOTH SIDES, to end this suffering of innocents.
Hamas are not freedom fighters, for no freedom fighter will place their own people in the line of fire, nor fire upon innocent targets as they did with missiles into Israel urban centres.
They are animals set upon by despicable others to achieve mis-interpretated claims of a peaceful religion shared by millions of faithful around the world, who would now place sackcloth on their heads on the sacriledge by these beasts.
Should the jews then just keep quiet and let their citizens die from continued missile and suicide bomb attacks? From a humanitarian point of view, most definately NOT!
Thus a need for ceasefire and sort out territorial or oppression claims in a calmer setting of the negotiation table, rather than to continue loss of human lives on BOTH sides.
But most critical of all, is the need to correct the mis-interpretation in the holy book of such claims that non-muslims are infidels, deserving of death and anyone who kills infidels in peacetime or self-declared war is assured of a heavenly place in the afterlife.
I have no interest in politics or the political dimensions of the conflict, nor care of it. My only concern is for the still living innocents on BOTH sides.
We, as a human race, had evolved from our animal instincts into civilised beings, capable of reason and logic, to negotiate, instead of killing.
I have no solutions to long held holy book claims to land issues, but there is still a solution to end the killing of innocents. Hate me or ignore me, but correct that mis-interpretation, this i only plead, so that more lives may be saved.
-
Originally posted by Atobe:
Description is purely opinions based on value systems.
It was easy for the 1.5 million "prisoners" to change their living conditions if they had rejected the politics propounded by HAMAS.
Why are the same Palestinians living on the West Bank not living in similar "prison like conditions" ?
If you succumb to propaganda and propound it further with your own preferred twist of the situation, it does not help anyone to understand the present events any clearer.
It is fortunate for us to live in a different part of the World, and see it as "disinterested" parties with no special agenda, and view the events without any colored lens, or any emotional hang-ups - and pass our judgment based on the facts of the events, with our own values.
The "facts" depend on how and where you gather these from.
The UN-GUIDED missiles or rockets fired by HAMAS are deliberately aimed or directed to land into the midst of Israeli civilian areas to cause maximum destruction.
These are not molotov cocktails.
At least the Israeli are taking pains to retaliate by using laser guided bombs that target HAMAS militant strongholds and missile or rocket manufacturing facilities.
Compared to the cheap HAMAS rockets, these Israeli laser guided bombs and missiles would have cost at least 20 to 50 times more - and would have already shown the difference in the effort at minimising civilian casualties.
The fact that Palestinian casualties have occurred is due to the deliberate effort of HAMAS to locate these high-explosives manufacturing facilities in the middle of densely populated area - in TOTAL DIS-REGARD to their OWN POPULACE - shows the callous attitude of the HAMAS leadership towards even their own people.
If you agree that Israel or Iran - or any nation - has the right to self-defense - is there any need to agonise over the Israeli response to HAMAS irresponsible and callous acts towards Human Lives - whether be it Israelis or their own Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip ?
Is Israel continuing to oppress the Palestinian people - or are you succumbing to propaganda ?
The previous Israeli Prime Minister Sharon - who died of heart failure - was one of the stoutest propounder of Israeli settlements on occupied territories.
Yet he was also one of the strongest advocate to forcibly remove large segments of the Israeli settlements from occupied territory, in exchange for Peace - and at a high price of his own political unpopularity amongst the Israeli settlers.
Sharon insisted on the mass removal of the Israeli settlers, as he realised that the Israeli settlements on occupied territory will only stretch Israeli military resources, and will only weaken their position in the face of mounting Palestinian civiliarn unrest in their well ochestrated INTIFADAH.
Israel had offered a negotiated and permanent settlement to allow a TWO-State solution to exist - this was rejected by the previous Palestinian Leader Arafat, who felt his position was better off having a prolonged stand-off than a resolution, as this guaranteed continued financial support from the other Arab countries.
Now that Arafat is dead and gone, the present Palestinian President Abbas efforts have been sabotaged by HAMAS refusal to negotiate with Israel, and insist on their Iranian supported foolish ambitious goal of having Israel totally anihilated.
The Palestinians in Gaza can taking it in any position they wish, as long as they continue with their foolishness in taking on Israel by threatening the Israeli civilians, they have only themselves to blame for the Israeli retaliation that will certainly come.
This is the Middle-eastern principle of "an eye for an eye" - as is propounded by the fundamentalist Islamic believers.
Complicity requires more then just blocking the border with Gaza.
The Palestinians in Gaza can burn all the flags of all the countries on earth, but they will not be getting any sympathy as that given to the USA on 9-11 - even from the worst protagonists of the US.
If HAMAS and their Palestinian supporters in the Gaza Strip play with fire, they have to learn to live with the fire they have created for themselves.
No point attempting to look for sympathy from the World Community if they cannot control the fire that they have started.
Haha, so those laser guided bombs, each weighing about several hundred pounds, cause less damage and casualties than unguided homemade or small-scale rockets? When the term "precision weapons" are used, it refers to its accuracy, not its impact. If Israel wants to target Hamas police stations (civilian infrastructure), which it did, a certain GBU could have destroyed it. But the ensuing shockwave generated would have probably injured and killed civilians within a radius of several hundred metres. In fact, Israel's bombs have already been reported to have caused miscarriages and psychological trauma, besides of course killing people.
How can you believe that the Palestinians could at least have an acceptable standard of living when Israel makes sure that medical supplies, food and fuel is restricted, or at times, refuses to allow the re-supplying of Gaza? You could argue that religion or politics have caused this crisis. But when people are deprived of necessities, they have no choice but to rise up and rebel. Naturally we can't even understand that because our basic needs are fulfilled and taken for granted in Singapore.
Israel has promised to halt settlement building many times. Yet the fact remains that expansion of settlements still continues. When the two state solution was proposed, it was impossible for Arafat to have agreed because firstly, the proposed Palestinian state would have been divided by the strategically situated (around Jerusalem) Israeli settlements. A nation that has no control over its borders is no nation at all. Secondly, the Palestinian state would have no control over its air space at all, meaning that the IAF would have a free reign to bomb it whenever it wants. Again, what kind of sovereignty is that?
Despite the meaninglessness of this argument, because might is right in the real world, do you realise that Palestinian casualties are many times more than Israeli casualties? And of course it would be. Israel has undertaken this policy for many years, hitting hard in response to the smallest provocation. Decades ago for example, a border clash which killed less than 10 Israeli soldiers died was retaliated with an Israeli attack that would usually kill 50+ [insert Arab country] dead. That was then when Israel was potentially threatened on all sides. Today, it just seems like US-like bullying.
-
Originally posted by xtreyier:....
Should the jews then just keep quiet and let their citizens die from continued missile and suicide bomb attacks? From a humanitarian point of view, most definately NOT!
....From a humanitarian standpoint, Israel should use its military, the 4th largest in the world and funded largely by the US, to wage "shock and awe" on Gaza with absurdly technologically superior weapons, killing far more people than Hamas with its unguided rockets right? And also, to prevent Hamas attacks (rather ineffectively), prevent medical supplies, fuel and food from reaching Gaza right?
If you want to profess such humanitarian feelings, then don't just condemn Hamas as "terrorists" because they are labelled as such in the MSM. Is Israel, though you'll insist regardless- is acting in self-defence, justified in inflicting far more casualties than Hamas and professing higher moral ground? Hamas has acted in brutal and inhumane ways, so has Israel. I'm not denying that. If you want to profess objectivity, then don't just condemn Hamas.
-
Norwegian doctor: Israel intentionally targeting civilians
David Edwards and Stephen C. Webster
Published: Monday January 5, 2009http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Norwegian_doctor_in_Gaza_Israel_targeting_0105.html
'They are bombing one and a half million people in a cage'
Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian doctor working in Gaza, told Sky News on Monday that that he believes Israel is deliberately attacking the Palestinian population, not just targeting Hamas as Israeli authorities have said numerous times.
"Just a little bit more than an hour ago, the Israelis bombed the central food market in Gaza City and we had a mass influx of about 50 injured and between 10 and 15 killed," said Gilbert, on the phone with Sky News.
"At the same time they bombed an apartment house with children playing on the roof and we had a lot of children also. This is really like from Dante's Inferno. It's like hell here now and it's been bombing all night. Up till now, close to 500 people have been killed and the number of casualties is getting to 2 to 2 and a half thousand which 50 percent are children and women."
"Are your hospital's reaching capacity?" asked the Sky News correspondent. "Can you deal with these people?"
"We have been doing surgery around the clock," Gilbert replied. "I just talked to to one of my colleagues in the ICU who has not been sleeping for three days and they hospital is completely overcrowded and we are running six, seven OR's and there are injuries that you just don't want to see in this world. Children coming in with open abdomens and legs cut off.
"We just had a child who left. We had to amputate both legs and the arms and the only crime they have done is been civilians -- Palestinians living in Gaza. The relief now is not more doctors and more drugs the relief now is to stop the bombing immediately. This can not go on. It is a disaster."
"You've talked about the civilians, the women and children, the men who aren't involved in this but are you also getting casualties that are Hamas fighters?" asked the reporter.
"To be honest, we came on New Year's Eve in the morning," answered Gilbert. "I've seen one military person among the tens -- I mean, hundreds -- we have seen and treated. So, anybody who tries to claim this as sort of a clean war against another army are lying.
"This is an all out war against the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza and we can prove that with the numbers and you have to remember that the average age of the Gaza inhabitant is 17-years. It's a very young population and 80% are living below the poverty limit of the U.N.
"So, this is a poor and very young people and they are able to escape absolutely nowhere because they can not flee like other populations can in wartime. Because they are fenced in and they are in a cage. So, they are bombing one and a half million people in a cage. And young people and poor people and, you know, you can not separate between the civilians and the fighters in such a situation."[CBS news clip provided at RAWSTORY site]
-
Originally posted by xtreyier:....
I, along with may other humanitarian of different faiths, even the moderate muslim faith, call for a truce, ON BOTH SIDES, to end this suffering of innocents.
...Thus a need for ceasefire and sort out territorial or oppression claims in a calmer setting of the negotiation table, rather than to continue loss of human lives on BOTH sides.
I have no interest in politics or the political dimensions of the conflict, nor care of it. My only concern is for the still living innocents on BOTH sides.
...
As the principle supplier of the Israeli military and giving up to $3 billion in military aid annually, this is not surprising at all.
U.S. blocks U.N. [Ceasefire] statement on Gaza
updated 11:52 p.m. ET Jan. 3, 2009
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28484148/
UNITED NATIONS - The United States late Saturday blocked approval of a U.N. Security Council statement calling for an immediate cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and southern Israel and expressing concern at the escalation of violence between Israel and Hamas.
U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff said the United States saw no prospect of Hamas abiding by last week's council call for an immediate end to the violence. Therefore, he said, a new statement at this time "would not be adhered to and would have no underpinning for success, would not do credit to the council."
France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Maurice Ripert, the current council president, announced that there was no agreement among members on a statement. But he said there were "strong convergences" among the 15 members to express serious concern about the deteriorating situation in Gaza and the need for "an immediate, permanent and fully respected cease-fire."
Arab nations demanded that the council adopt a statement calling for an immediate cease-fire following Israel's launch of a ground offensive in Gaza earlier Saturday, a view echoed by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.
Libya's U.N. Ambassador Giadalla Ettalhi, the only Arab member of the council, said the United States objected to "any outcome" during the closed council discussions on the proposed statement.
He said efforts were made to compromise and agree on a weaker press statement but there was no consensus.
The 15-member council had met behind closed doors to discuss a proposed presidential statement that would also call for all parties to address the humanitarian and economic needs in Gaza, including by opening border crossings.
The five permanent council members — the U.S., Britain, France, Russia and China — along with Libya, the only Arab nation on the council, then met privately to discuss possibly issuing another press statement.
"We need to have from the Security Council reaction tonight to bring this latest addition of aggression against our people in Gaza to an immediate halt," Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. observer told reporters.
The statement would have become part of the council's official record but would not have the weight of a Security Council resolution, which is legally binding.
Mansour said 3,000 Palestinians have been killed and injured since Israeli warplanes starting bombing Gaza a week ago. More than 480 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza and four killed in Israel.
International criticism of the offensive has increased steadily, but Israel maintains the offensive is aimed at stopping the rocket attacks from Hamas-controlled Gaza that have traumatized southern Israel.
Before the council met Saturday night, Ban telephoned Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and said he was disappointed that Israel launched a ground offensive and "alarmed that this escalation will inevitably increase the already heavy suffering" of Palestinian civilians, the U.N. spokesman's office said in a statement.
"He called for an immediate end to the ground operation, and asked that Israel do all possible to ensure the protection of civilians and that humanitarian assistance is able to reach those in need," the statement said.
Ban reiterated his call for an immediate cease-fire and urged regional and international partners "to exert all possible influence to bring about an immediate end to the bloodshed and suffering," the statement said.
The secretary-general said the Israeli ground operation is complicating efforts by the Quartet of Mideast peacemakers — the U.N., the U.S., the European Union and Russia — to end the violence.
Several Arab foreign ministers are expected at U.N. headquarters on Monday to urge the Security Council to adopt a resolution ending the Israeli offensive. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas delayed his arrival until Tuesday so he can meet French President Nicolas Sarkozy in the West Bank.
-
Originally posted by freedomclub:
From a humanitarian standpoint, Israel should use its military, the 4th largest in the world and funded largely by the US, to wage "shock and awe" on Gaza with absurdly technologically superior weapons, killing far more people than Hamas with its unguided rockets right? And also, to prevent Hamas attacks (rather ineffectively), prevent medical supplies, fuel and food from reaching Gaza right?
If you want to profess such humanitarian feelings, then don't just condemn Hamas as "terrorists" because they are labelled as such in the MSM. Is Israel, though you'll insist regardless- is acting in self-defence, justified in inflicting far more casualties than Hamas and professing higher moral ground? Hamas has acted in brutal and inhumane ways, so has Israel. I'm not denying that. If you want to profess objectivity, then don't just condemn Hamas.
FC, what are your points? Do you have a solution to all that is happening? Are you happy with your posts to further inflame the situation thru the twisted conspiracy crap you positively enjoy reviling in?You do not deny that Hamas is brutal and inhumane. Full stop. That is enough. No need to talk further.
If no one blames Hamas for this current atrocity, then blame who? Blame the jews? While at it why not blame everyone and even right up to the Almighty when the world is created.
STOP PLAYING YOUR FAVOURITE DAMNED BLAMING GAME!!! Innocent people are dying at this moment!
-
Originally posted by xtreyier:
FC, what are your points? Do you have a solution to all that is happening? Are you happy with your posts to further inflame the situation thru the twisted conspiracy crap you positively enjoy reviling in?You do not deny that Hamas is brutal and inhumane. Full stop. That is enough. No need to talk further.
If no one blames Hamas for this current atrocity, then blame who? Blame the jews? While at it why not blame everyone and even right up to the Almighty when the world is created.
STOP PLAYING YOUR FAVOURITE DAMNED BLAMING GAME!!! Innocent people are dying at this moment!
My point is that you should stop being biased to Israel. What have I said do you think is a "conspiracy theory" despite not even responding to the information I posted? (I ask even though you wont answer, as always). And you think that Israel is the shining beacon of humanitarianism? Practice what you preach. If you dont like "blaming", then why are you condemning Hamas. Isn't that the same as blaming them for the bloodshed? And you've not answered my question whether Israel or Hamas has killed more people during this conflict. Just respond to the post and answer the questions. No one wants to hear your self-righteous rants (I really wonder how you got passed comprehension).
And no, I dont have a solution. Even if I, or anyone here had, it wouldn't make a difference because the ordinary person is powerless. (See, this is called "responding to peoples' posts" aka "forum etiquette") Heard of it?
-
Originally posted by freedomclub:
From a humanitarian standpoint, Israel should use its military, the 4th largest in the world and funded largely by the US, to wage "shock and awe" on Gaza with absurdly technologically superior weapons, killing far more people than Hamas with its unguided rockets right? And also, to prevent Hamas attacks (rather ineffectively), prevent medical supplies, fuel and food from reaching Gaza right?
If you want to profess such humanitarian feelings, then don't just condemn Hamas as "terrorists" because they are labelled as such in the MSM. Is Israel, though you'll insist regardless- is acting in self-defence, justified in inflicting far more casualties than Hamas and professing higher moral ground? ....
Reponse to another of your professed (so-called) interest in the humanitarian dimension.
-
Work towards a cease-fire that would not allow a reestablishment of the status quo ante where Hamas can continue to launch rockets out of Gaza.... negotiate a cease-fire that is durable and sustainable.
That's more sensible.
Save the trouble of looking up the meaning - status quo ante. It means the way things were before.
-
Originally posted by freedomclub:
So you're saying that Israel has one of the weakest militaries in the Middle-East?
Are you ignorant or what? The Arab armies were more superior than the IDF in military hardware and troop strengths in the Six-day War and the Yom Kippur War.
-
Originally posted by googoomuck:
It's a myth!
How can a small Jewish nation has ambitions to invade and occupy bigger Arab nations? It makes the Arabs stupid, isn't it?
His post was in today's context. Back then, superior Arab forces didnt help, but they still lost. Today, as the Middle-Eastern superpower, Israel invades with impunity. Think about Lebanon. And now, in her own backyard. And of course, her ex-Arab enemies dont dare do anything because they have the same patron.