Is Isreal Terrorist ?
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Originally posted by rockfire:
haha, We are human too, have feeling. but i understand what u try to say.Its not about feelings. Its just that the products you listed are indispensable to the consumerist and materialistic mentality that most Singaporeans have. It would mean death, maybe, for some of them to forgo, let's say, their handphone, or fast food.
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Originally posted by gackt13:
The Hamas are Palestinians too. ZZZ
Thats why what Israel is doing is counter-productive to destroy Hamas as a political entity. Israel is turning the Gazan population against it by not distinguishing Hamas and the Palestinians. By resorting to airstrikes, Israel has probably made Palestinians Hamas, and Hamas Palestinians.
Thats why I said that if Israel is truly serious about achieving peace, then it'll work towards fostering better relations with the Palestinian people instead of constantly alienating and oppressing them. That's the same problem that the US is facing, and is correcting in Afghanistan.
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Of course they're bloody terrorists - the nation was founded on the shenanigans of Avraham Stern and his motley crew in Lehi. It's absurd how they've taken the British washing of hands in 1948 as a sign of their legitimacy, and ludicrous how they hypocritically accuse the Palestineans of terrorism in using their exact same methods in trying to achieve nationhood.
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So what if Israel is trying to foster a better relationship with the Palestinians? Hamas as a political party is still corrupted and nothing can be changed until they are overthrown.
Maybe you can suggest how fostering a better relationship can be done in this case?
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Of course they're bloody terrorists - the nation was founded on the shenanigans of Avraham Stern and his motley crew in Lehi. It's absurd how they've taken the British washing of hands in 1948 as a sign of their legitimacy, and ludicrous how they hypocritically accuse the Palestineans of terrorism in using their exact same methods in trying to achieve nationhood.
The hard part is trying to distinguish which form of terrorism by whom is acceptable. Like someone earlier said, even George Washington and gang were labelled as terrorists.
Pity is that some people on this forum are just too prejudiced against non-mainstream information and so, they'll probably call you a "conspiracy theorist".
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Originally posted by gackt13:
So what if Israel is trying to foster a better relationship with the Palestinians? Hamas as a political party is still corrupted and nothing can be changed until they are overthrown.
Maybe you can suggest how fostering a better relationship can be done in this case?
For one, improve the Palestinians' standard of living by raising the blockade and improving, not destroying Palestinian infrastructure. Because Israel has denied Palestinians access to necessities like food, fuel, clean water and medicine, most of the population has turned against Israel.
Of course, if Israel does that, then Hamas might try to sabotage its efforts by increasing violence against Israel. But then, the Americans are having better results in Afghanistan fostering friendly relations with tribal chiefs than just relying on air strikes (though it's still used), even giving some of them viagra.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Thats why what Israel is doing is counter-productive to destroy Hamas as a political entity. Israel is turning the Gazan population against it by not distinguishing Hamas and the Palestinians. By resorting to airstrikes, Israel has probably made Palestinians Hamas, and Hamas Palestinians.
Thats why I said that if Israel is truly serious about achieving peace, then it'll work towards fostering better relations with the Palestinian people instead of constantly alienating and oppressing them. That's the same problem that the US is facing, and is correcting in Afghanistan.
yeah i have read somewhere hamas is made by isreal to balance th fatah movement by the late arafat -
Back then, it probably made sense because it offered Israel the chance to weaken its main political obstacle. Now, its another instance of "blowback".
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Its not about feelings. Its just that the products you listed are indispensable to the consumerist and materialistic mentality that most Singaporeans have. It would mean death, maybe, for some of them to forgo, let's say, their handphone, or fast food.
yeah bro agree with u but fastfood maybe can take less or don't take. -
Originally posted by freedomclub:
The hard part is trying to distinguish which form of terrorism by whom is acceptable. Like someone earlier said, even George Washington and gang were labelled as terrorists.
Pity is that some people on this forum are just too prejudiced against non-mainstream information and so, they'll probably call you a "conspiracy theorist".
So we have to post more of this Conspiracy theorist ? -
Originally posted by freedomclub:
For one, improve the Palestinians' standard of living by raising the blockade and improving, not destroying Palestinian infrastructure. Because Israel has denied Palestinians access to necessities like food, fuel, clean water and medicine, most of the population has turned against Israel.
Of course, if Israel does that, then Hamas might try to sabotage its efforts by increasing violence against Israel. But then, the Americans are having better results in Afghanistan fostering friendly relations with tribal chiefs than just relying on air strikes (though it's still used), even giving some of them viagra.
Stop the firing of rockets into Israel and then see how things will improve in Gaza.
Israel may even allow ordinary Gazans living close to the borders to earn a living in Israel, just like the good old days.
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Maybe if you guys went throught what the Jews went through during the WW2 in the Holocust as an oppressed race then probably you woudl understand why Israel is behaving the way they are right now.
JEws are traditionally peace loving people who do not like to retaliate. And that is why Nazis are so successful is their "cleansing" of the Jews during the Holocust.
The Jews have gotten wiser and learnt how to fight for themselves. Even in the 20th century Arab countries around them have always tried to "elimininate" Israel as they do not "belong". Being oppressed for centuries, what is wrong to stand up for oneself?
True, some methods the Israelis have used in the politics may not be right. But isn't that what the politics are all about? Who can know what goes on behind the curtains?
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Originally posted by gackt13:
Maybe if you guys went throught what the Jews went through during the WW2 in the Holocust as an oppressed race then probably you woudl understand why Israel is behaving the way they are right now.
JEws are traditionally peace loving people who do not like to retaliate. And that is why Nazis are so successful is their "cleansing" of the Jews during the Holocust.
The Jews have gotten wiser and learnt how to fight for themselves. Even in the 20th century Arab countries around them have always tried to "elimininate" Israel as they do not "belong". Being oppressed for centuries, what is wrong to stand up for oneself?
True, some methods the Israelis have used in the politics may not be right. But isn't that what the politics are all about? Who can know what goes on behind the curtains?
Dont confuse the Israeli government with the Israeli people. In fact, most Israelis oppose the government's Palestinian policy and speak out against the government's genocidal policy even though the western-dominated MSM conceals the opposition.
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Hamas created by Israelis?!?! Haha you guys have so many conspiracy theories. Maybe you guys have also heard that Christianity is a corrupted religion too? Judas was not the guy who betrayed Christ? He was instructed by Christ himself to turn him over to the Romans?
I think soon enough the Chinese might actually be aliens from another planet who settled on earth eons ago. Rubbish.
Israelis do not condemn Islam in their country. But do the Arab countries allow Judaism in theirs? Talk about being fair. LOL
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Originally posted by gackt13:
Hamas created by Israelis?!?! Haha you guys have so many conspiracy theories. Maybe you guys have also heard that Christianity is a corrupted religion too? Judas was not the guy who betrayed Christ? He was instructed by Christ himself to turn him over to the Romans?
I think soon enough the Chinese might actually be aliens from another planet who settled on earth eons ago. Rubbish.
Israelis do not condemn Islam in their country. But do the Arab countries allow Judaism in theirs? Talk about being fair. LOL
Hamas is a Creation of Mossad
by Hassane Zerouky – Global Research March 23, 2004
Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation
Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of the Islamist movement in Palestine, returning from Cairo in the seventies, established an Islamic charity association. Prime Minister Golda Meir, saw this as a an opportunity to counterbalance the rise of Arafat’s Fatah movement. .According to the Israeli weekly Koteret Rashit (October 1987), "The Islamic associations as well as the university had been supported and encouraged by the Israeli military authority" in charge of the (civilian) administration of the West Bank and Gaza. "They [the Islamic associations and the university] were authorized to receive money payments from abroad."
The Islamists set up orphanages and health clinics, as well as a network of schools, workshops which created employment for women as well as system of financial aid to the poor. And in 1978, they created an "Islamic University" in Gaza. "The military authority was convinced that these activities would weaken both the PLO and the leftist organizations in Gaza." At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza. Thanks to Israel’s intelligence agency Mossad (Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression.
In 1984, Ahmed Yassin was arrested and condemned to twelve years in prison, after the discovery of a hidden arms cache. But one year later, he was set free and resumed his activities. And when the Intifada (‘uprising’) began, in October 1987, which took the Islamists by surprise, Sheik Yassin responded by creating the Hamas (The Islamic Resistance Movement): "God is our beginning, the prophet our model, the Koran our constitution", proclaims article 7 of the charter of the organization.
Ahmed Yassin was in prison when, the Oslo accords (Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government) were signed in September 1993. The Hamas had rejected Oslo outright. But at that time, 70% of Palestinians had condemned the attacks on Israeli civilians. Yassin did everything in his power to undermine the Oslo accords. Even prior to Prime Minister Rabin’s death, he had the support of the Israeli government. The latter was very reluctant to implement the peace agreement.
The Hamas then launched a carefully timed campaign of attacks against civilians, one day before the meeting between Palestinian and Israeli negotiators, regarding the formal recognition of Israel by the National Palestinian Council. These events were largely instrumental in the formation of a Right wing Israeli government following the May 1996 elections.
Quite unexpectedly, Prime Minister Netanyahu ordered Sheik Ahmed Yassin to be released from prison ("on humanitarian grounds") where he was serving a life sentence. Meanwhile, Netanyahu, together with President Bill Clinton, was putting pressure on Arafat to control the Hamas. In fact, Netanyahu knew that he could rely, once more, on the Islamists to sabotage the Oslo accords. Worse still: after having expelled Yassin to Jordan, Prime Minister Netanyahu allowed him to return to Gaza, where he was welcomed triumphantly as a hero in October 1997.
Arafat was helpless in the face of these events. Moreover, because he had supported Saddam Hussein during the1991 Gulf war, (while the Hamas had cautiously abstained from taking sides), the Gulf states decided to cut off their financing of the Palestinian Authority. Meanwhile, between February and April 1998, Sheik Ahmad Yassin was able to raise several hundred million dollars, from those same countries. The the budget of The Hamas was said to be greater than that of the Palestinian Authority. These new sources of funding enabled the Islamists to effectively pursue their various charitable activities. It is estimated that one Palestinian out of three is the recipient of financial aid from the Hamas. And in this regard, Israel has done nothing to curb the inflow of money into the occupied territories.
The Hamas had built its strength through its various acts of sabotage of the peace process, in a way which was compatible with the interests of the Israeli government. In turn, the latter sought in a number of ways, to prevent the application of the Oslo accords. In other words, Hamas was fulfilling the functions for which it was originally created: to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State. And in this regard, Hamas and Ariel Sharon, see eye to eye; they are exactly on the same wave length.
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html -
Originally posted by gackt13:
Hamas created by Israelis?!?! Haha you guys have so many conspiracy theories. Maybe you guys have also heard that Christianity is a corrupted religion too? Judas was not the guy who betrayed Christ? He was instructed by Christ himself to turn him over to the Romans?
I think soon enough the Chinese might actually be aliens from another planet who settled on earth eons ago. Rubbish.
Israelis do not condemn Islam in their country. But do the Arab countries allow Judaism in theirs? Talk about being fair. LOL
For what reason do you classify it as a "conspiracy theory"? While I dont believe that Hamas was CREATED by Israel, it is certain that Israel supported Hamas in the early 1970s in order to weaken its main political rival, the PLO.
Didnt you know the Americans supported the Mujahedeen, of whom Bin Laden was a member of, against the Soviets? Then the Mujahedeen turned against the US, supposedly on 9/11. Its the same reasoning; "blowback".
These two sound outrageous and maybe that's why narrow-minded people can't help but call out "conspiracy theories!" once they hear it even if they dont have any substantiation for it. But on examining the evidence, the truth becomes evident.
By the way, you're simply mixing non-mainstream truths with utter speculation like some guy likes to pull the "elvis is alive" crap. Dont try to lump them together and disregard them.
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Originally posted by gackt13:
Hamas created by Israelis?!?! Haha you guys have so many conspiracy theories. Maybe you guys have also heard that Christianity is a corrupted religion too? Judas was not the guy who betrayed Christ? He was instructed by Christ himself to turn him over to the Romans?
I think soon enough the Chinese might actually be aliens from another planet who settled on earth eons ago. Rubbish.
Israelis do not condemn Islam in their country. But do the Arab countries allow Judaism in theirs? Talk about being fair. LOL
yes bro Iran the Islamic state.there is link if u don't believe JEW MP for Iran http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456535610&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull'Iranian Jews protest Gaza slaughter'
JPost.com – December 30, 2008
Different groups representing Iran's Jewish community on Tuesday gathered in front of the United Nations office in Teheran in order to protest "Israeli war crimes and the slaughter of the innocent people in Gaza Strip," the Iranian IRNA news agency reported.
The protesters, led by the Jewish representative in Parliament, Siamak Mara-Sedq, carried placards with anti-Israel slogans in both Farsi and Hebrew, the report said.
"We are here to express our support and sympathy with the Palestinian nation," Rahmatollah Rafi, the chairman of Iran's Jewish community was quoted as saying at the rally.
Hinting mainly at Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the report said that Rafi went on to criticize "certain Arab governments for their inaction and silence towards Israeli inhuman acts and war crimes in Gaza and the entire Palestinian territories."
Separately, IRNA reported that in a Tuesday speech to the Iranian parliament Mara-Sedq "expressed shock" over the "savage acts" perpetrated by "the Tel Aviv regime."
The report said that the Jewish MP "expressed hope that all the peace-loving nations and the true advocates of human rights would thoroughly support the defenseless Palestinian people and make Israel stop the genocide in the region by exerting pressure on Tel Aviv."
He also reportedly gave voice to the "hatred" the Iranian Jewish Community harbors towards "the Israeli crimes."
According to the report, Mara-Sedq's remarks elicited a chorus of anti-Israel and anti-US slogans from members of parliament.
Iranian Jewish leaders are often quoted as having given voice to extreme anti-Israel views, but it is unclear whether these opinions are imposed upon them by the regime.
Some 25,000 Jews live in Iran.
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456535610&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull -
gackt13, you certainly act like you know everything and you think that everything that you know, (probably derived from mainstream media) is the truth.Youre dead wrong my friend, You have no idea whose the real oppresor and the oppresed here.You seating in your comfy chair and typing all your nonsense should try and get out more often, read more conspiracy Facts and maybe go live in palestine.I am sure you will be incensed by my comments and will decisively respond with venom, but I'm not interested in exchanging jibes and this will be my last comment. Israel may have won all the battles so far but they will not win the ultimate war and when that time comes, The truth will be clear and revealed to all the veiled eyes.
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What do you mean the ultimate war? Are you another Jihad guy here? LOL
No I do not know everything. But as a person who have read about what the Jews are, past and present, I can emphasize with them.
Any conspiracy facts can hide another conspiracy underneath it. Nothing is the absolute fact or truth. How are we to know all the little details that is hidden from us, "truths within truth"?
All I know is the Hamas irresponsibly fired some rockets at Israel with no regards for CIVILIAN JEWs' lives, nor with any regards for their own palestinian people's lives knowing Israel would retaliate. Maybe palestinian civilians, bearing the brunt of the responsibilties for their imbecile government,deserves some pity. But under various circumstances I have pointed out before, it is inevitable.
BTW, I have never heard of anyone complaining when US dropped an atomic bomb in Hiroshima and literally flattened the whole city and their CIVILIANS. Japan surrendered, the whole world was happy and cheering. Millions of lives were lost in Hiroshima. Funny no one cried "Humanitarian Outrage"! then. Hmmm.
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Originally posted by gackt13:
BTW, I have never heard of anyone complaining when US dropped an atomic bomb in Hiroshima and literally flattened the whole city and their CIVILIANS. Japan surrendered, the whole world was happy and cheering. Millions of lives were lost in Hiroshima. Funny no one cried "Humanitarian Outrage"! then. Hmmm.
Tell me you're joking - where have you been hiding that you have made yourself oblivious to all of the protests against the use of Fat Man and Little Boy, including those from Einstein and Oppenheimer themselves?
Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it never happened. That plenty of people have heard of it over the past 60-odd years only serves to highlight the gaping hole in your knowledge base.
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I don't see the same level of "humanitarian outrage" response for the ongoing wars and enthnic cleansing in africa even though it has been going on for decades, killing and displacing millions.
The reason why everybody gives a shlt over tiny gaza strip, cos its upsetting the arabs and the arabs have oil. The last thing you want when there is an economic crisis going is skyrocketing fuel prices. In fact its happening already!
And what has poor african nations got to offer? Their own governments probably spent more troops protecting their gold mines and foreign assets than their own people.
If it hurts so much for any of you, go do something about it. Anything else is just bull
As for the retard who suggested boycotting US and Israeli products, you can start dismantling your computer just about now.
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go read this shit..
you guys got to get this clear.. there was never such a thing as "Palestine"... it is like saying "The Sahara" is a country...
Palestinians are just a bunch of Arabs which even their "Arab brethern" don't want anything to do with.. note how the Egyptians, Jordanians and others shun them and persecute them in ways the Israelis don't even think about?
do not ever forget that Yassar Arafat flipped everyone the bird in Camp David after the Israelis and US and everyone else gave them everything they asked for.. and he went back and started the Intifadah after telling his own people a pack of lies..
in 1970, the PLO themselves said there was no such thing as Palestine and when they get the land, they'll immediately merge with Jordan..
now.. that makes me wonder why Yasser tried to assassinate the King of Jordan once... which ended up infuriating the king so much he massacred a huge pile of Palestinians and ejected even more from Jordan..
as for Ham-ass, would you negotiate or give in to someone who has in their manifesto the destruction of Israel? that being said, i don't think the PLO have removed that item from their own manifesto either...
hell.. if anything the Israelis are going in with kid-gloves.. turn the whole thing around, Israel would have been steamrolled long ago by the Arabs if they could...
all that being said, the Israelis lost their high moral ground by being ham-fisted and boorish.. there are other ways to fight this war... non-violence and subterfuge would have served them well... instead of the doctrine of overwhelming force against civilians (even if they were willing human shields for the cowards Ham-ass)
the long and short of it is that all sides in this conflict have blood on their hands... from the Israelis with their idiotic wars, to Ham-ass and their pathological need to be victims, to the corruption of the PLO and the duplicity of the Arabs...
everyone can be called a terrorist in this tragedy...
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I totally agree with Don©. Now you see where I'm going. Behind all this farce and cries of so-called "humanitarian outrage" lies the real reason (probably) why anyone is crying foul at all.
Ah.... rich rich Arabs.
And I guess it doesn't hurt that most religions and people condemns the Jews wrongly. And not to forget the anti-semetics out there. People always look at things through their tinted glasses.
And btw, I'm just offended by the post starter. What's with the boycotting idealism? How about skipping your MacDonalds' and stop watching Hollywood movies? LOL
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Originally posted by rockfire:
Why u say that, When Isreal (Zionism) kill hundred of people by the Act of terrorrists created by them, US attack Iraq 1 of the reason is that Saddam have tied with Osama laden (terrorist) Who created Act of terror? USA And Isreal, Why u never say they a little to far..
Do we call ours Garmen Terrorist cause they can do what they want ? Without asking the people who vote them. Today talk Tomorrow Increase. Take all the land and ask the people to buy Bird house. Do they stay in the flat. above do anything below can heard.Do we ever call them Terrorist ?
Referring to this
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Very insightful article you post there just now, the bear.