India currently claims to have evidence of Pakistan's involvement in the Mumbai massacre, of whom one of our own was slain by radical islamic beasts.
They had been presenting evidences to major countries around the world. Pakistan had denied such allegations. A potential conflict is arising between these 2 nuclear powers, a dream come thru made real thru the auspices of Al Queda.
It must be avoided at all costs. What is happening now is almost the same as what was happening prior to Israel retaliation into Gaza.
Most of the world kept silent when terrorist group Hamas launched an average 90 missiles per day into Israel, killing and oppressing thousands of innocent lives.
When the Israelis realized they were alone, no one had mercy for the jews and called for the end of missile attack by hamas, they wack big time by themselves.
This is what will happen exactly if India is ignored by the world to press Pakistan for justice. It wont be tanks and planes flying across borders in this case. Nuclear warfare will annhilate millions of innocents
This scenario must be avoided at all costs. I would appeal to our govt to accept the idea of having a neutral 3rd party to investigate such claims and get the UN to demand suspects for investigation and for justice. Failing which, the UN must enter Pakistan as an united force to capture suspects.
I hope diplomacy will prevail instead.
If not, guess we in Asia will have to keep alert for warning sirens ringing in the air to move into shelters. Nuclear fallout may flow across the world on the tropical lattitudes.
good.. less people on earth. I hope they wipe out each other and maybe bring a few other neighbouring countries with them...
I am afraid not many indians and pakistanis, mostly villagers, understand the modern concept of nuclear warfare. In their mind, nuclear war would mean dropping an indian nuke at Islamabad, then somewhere in Khaltar Peak, a silo would open and launch a nuke at Delhi.
Everyone not in the affected areas would sit down and have tea, and await diplomatic to end the bombings.
Unfortunately, modern nuclear warfare would mean simultaneous launch of nuclear armed missiles into the enemy territories. It would also mean the same would be done when the enemy realizes nukes had been launched.
For example, when the Indian PM press the button to fire the long range nuke missiles, that fire control button launches every nuke missile in the country arsenal, individually set with pre-programmed target co-ordinates to hit every population centre, province and military installation in Pakistan.
Similarly, the Pakistan PM too have such fire control systems, and upon detection of nuke launches within seconds from India, he too depress the button to end it all.
Pakistan and India have no anti missile shield such as US, Japan and some european nations.
Within minutes, the landmasses formerly known as Pakistan and India will cease to exist. Every building flattened, tree burnt and living beings vapourised. All within hours.
By any miracle that there are survivors, they will face radiation and a whole host of medical problems, if they can survive drinking contaminated water and eating rotting corpses.
No other human being outside will dare or even contemplate humanitarian actions there, for that landmass will be radioactive for years.
And if the winds are unmerciful, clouds of radioactive isotopes will drift to neighbouring countries, contaminating their food and water supplies.
The option to go nuke will be a final desperate move. In the initial stages of war, air and infantry operations will suffice as posturing. But as the casualties mount, the losing side will find no more reason to continue on, and would take the chance to wipeout the enemy once and for all.
This is only a scenario of the potential Indo-Pakistan conflict to come. We may not have been able to avert the Israeli-Gaza clash, but we can still avert the looming disaster in the indian subcontinent.
India is only asking for the terrorist planners implicated in the Mumbai attacks from Pakistan. These are only criminals. No religion would associate with such killers, thus we must discuss with our friends and relatives of different faiths, to treat those wanted men as criminals, and not as religious figures for persecution.
They in turn must reach out to others, who may be able to influence events in Islamic Pakistan, not to treat it as any form of religious persecution, but extradiation for murder crimes and must accept due process of the law.
The looming conflict between Pakistan and India may yet be averted.
i am not so sure i fully agreed with that view. I think Pakistan post a serious threat to Greater Asia. Pakistan is becoming a fail state with 50 Nuke on hand. It is precisely ignorance about the impact of using nuke and in the mids of fragile statehood their perceived external threat towards India may extend the threat post to the greater Asia.
On recent report we learned that the tribes that reside the border along Afgan from Himalaya to south of India are basically against the weak central government. The AL Queda in Pakistan are conducting killing tribes leaders who are pro-govt. If the military pull out of the border there is basically no civil govt control. The ISI are probably running the agenda n controlling much of the military side of the govt.
I am not sure Other than this 3 cities Karachi, Islamaba n Lahore.is there a govt outside these cities?
speaking from SG perspective i am not sure the Pakistan are thrill by the fact that we are conducting military training with the Indians.
The Pakistanis probably don't care that we exercise with the Indians. We are not that significant to them. At the rate the Pakistani central government is losing control, they'd be close behind Somalia in the failed states index soon enough.
Oddly, things didn't seem so explosive when Musharraf was around.
Maybe Musharraf has a better grid on ISI. And they are the ones that carry out secret deal with the Taliban. The ISI does not want to see Afgan to be Pro India and engage Taliban to bomb indian embassy in Afgan.
The Shade of Grey is really shady in Pakistan.
Now is the time for moderate Muslims to call upon Islamic Pakistan to hand over suspects involved in the Mumbai massacre.
No point waiting till borders are crossed by armies then shed crocodile tears, as happening now in Gaza, propagated by arab propagandists to fuel high tensioned religious sentiments, making peace impossible!
All India ask are for extradiation of criminals to be tried. If they are guilty, they would hang. IF not, they will go free. Nothing religious in the course and due process of law, and nothing of religious persecution. No need to turn it into a religion circus.
To do so will only lead to dire consequences, consequences of which the simple folks of India and the religious simple minded in Islamic Pakistan MAY NOT BE AWARE OF!
PS:-
I am just a simple nobody. I am a man of science and hardly believe in predictions or 'things that goes 'bump' in the night'. Analysis, yes. Coincidences, perhaps.
But prior to the current Israeli-Gaza conflict, 2 things happened.
1. Israel suffered deaths and missle pounding from religious extremists, the world largely ignored it.
2. Madoff, an american jew, admitted to cooking the books to the tune of billions.
Today:-
1. India suffered attacks by religious extremists, had evidences and shown to the world. Ignored or not, yet to be known.
2. Satyam ( 'truth' in Hindu) admitted to cooking the books to the tune of billion.
Is it coincidence or some kind of divine message of warning not to be overlooked? The Indo-Pakistan conflict if flares up would make the Israeli-Gaza conflict look like a schoolyard brawl in comparison!
After a whole day of analysing real world data, i thought i may spend some time analysing the 'portends' as a mental excercise.
Those who believe in portends as well as religious extremists may illogically mis-interpretate the madoff and satyum cases as proof of divine punishment upon ethnic groups.
This would be incorrect, because the terrorists groups are doing a great job for the past few years, and need no further divine message as proof nor give any warning, if the almighty is indeed giving a free hand to them.
Secondly, if divine wrath is to be visited upon humans,it certainly would not be just on certain ethnic groups. Who amongst us would dare claim we have not sin?
Thirdly, earthquakes are often associated with divine wrath. If so then the quake on October 29, 2008 should hit Israel and India instead and not in Pakistan and felt in Afghanistan as well.
With these in mind, perhaps a logical interpretation would be:-
When a person does good, often nobody knows, but when a person does bad, it gets max attention from everyone.
So in the case of Maddoff scandal, jews who do great good seldom gets any press, but when one jew does great bad, it gets THE WHOLE WORLD'S ATTENTION.
In the case of Satyam, when one indian software company does internationally well, it is often expected and dont get any press. But when one indian software company goes internationally bust, it gets THE WHOLE WORLD'S ATTENTION.
The key to the portends riddle is Attention. Perhaps SomeOne up above wants the world's attention to focus on those particular country's situation?
And if we look further, a kind of divine warning pattern emerges-
1. Financial collapsed warning-STOP MONEY MAKING AND LOOK AT THE WORLD'S SITUATION.
2. Israeli-Gaza Conflict warning-ONLY A PRELUDE TO AMARGEDDON IF WARNINGS ARE NOT HEEDED
3. Indo-Pakistan Conflict-AMARGEDDON NOW.
Hey, i know it's kinda weird. Most will not take it seriously anyway, BUT the threat of modern nuclear warfare is REAL AND IMMENIENT if we dont act now. A sizeable portion of humanity will be dead.
I know for sure the indian PM holds the authority to press the nuke button. BUT who presses the button in Islamic Pakistan? The PM, or the Military?
I am not sure if Pakistan will handover suspect immediately. IF they handover the suspect to India than I am not sure the current weak leadership will survived in Pakistan. Ego from both side are as big as sg "Wheel"
Least it seems pretty quiet on the Indo-Pakistan front, we must not be lulled into complecency.
Islamic Pakistan is still acting belligerently and refused to hand over suspects for trial over the Mumbai killings of innocent non-muslim as well as muslims from all different parts of the world, by acknowledged Pakistani religious radical gunmen.
Moderate muslims must not fear the religious extremists. Muslims are brave people as shown throughout history. there is no reason to fear this minority of radicals who had corrupted the koran to annhilate mankind, as acknowledge by ALL religious leaders in ALL nations after the horror of 911.
Osama is not the Caliph, commander of all faithful. he is the false prophet the Koran warned about.
No mortal man who loves the Almighty and respect His creations would destroy, call for genocide of humanity, and sacrifice even the horrendously huge amount of faithful muslims the way osama and his ideology did!
There is no greater maytrdom than defending the Koran defaced by Osama and his pet dogs clerics, whom had send thousands of young faithul muslims lives to their deaths.
Stand up now, moderate muslims, and help inform your Pakistani friends to demand for the criminal suspects whom had murdered even muslims, callously deemed as 'sacrifice' with crocodile tears by the false prophet Osama.
If not, deaths will be in the billions if the beast wins in bullying Pakistani muslims.
Educated and intelligent moderate muslims, you are the last hope of the good prophet Mohammed to save the Koran from the excesses of illiterate clerics and evil men.
BBC news Jan 19 2009
Pakistan says a dossier provided by India as evidence that links the Mumbai (Bombay) attacks to elements in Pakistan is merely "information".
PM Yousuf Raza Gilani said Pakistan was still examining the dossier.
Separately, India's interior minister accused Pakistan of doing nothing and said ties could "snap" if it did not help in probing the attacks.
Seperate news on Jan 15th..
DELHI (AFP) – The head of India's army on Wednesday confirmed that Pakistan has redeployed troops along the two countries' tense border but said his forces were ready for all eventualities.
"The aspect of some (Pakistani) troops coming towards the east... we are aware of it. That has happened. They have come to the eastern border of Pakistan with India," General Deepak Kapoor told a news conference.
"However having known this fact, let me assure you that the Indian army has factored this in its planning," he added. "That is not something which is a cause of concern for us."
I think Pakistan is probably not going to openly admit about its involvement. The move of troops is another defensive posture.
I think tension can changed between the 2 states. Currently the media is focusing on Gaza so it might give Pakistan some space.
Yes. There is still time.
Precious time.
Time is all the more crucial now. While there is still time to reflect upon the horrors seen at the Israeli-Gaza conflict. Needless deaths and sacrifices of innocent precious lives on both sides over an horrifying ideology inflicted upon humanity in our times.
Many Pakistani muslims do not share such ideology. Many are modern, moderate and had seen the wonders and evolution of humanity than cannot be denied came from the grace of an Almighty.
But peer pressure from the radicals cowers everyone to speak with the same voice, least they and their loved ones be stoned.
They do not subscribe to the terrorist ideology and know deep in their heart that the beauty of the Koran lies not in its rigidity as imposed by illiterate clerics, but abound in love and joy in its adaptibility to evolve.
Adaptibility that is everywhere in the Koran the good prophet Mohammed had intended its followers to know. The very first instance is the protection of widows.
The good prophet did not marry widows out of lust, but because in the still tribal customs of the 6th century, widows and their children were considered outcastes and often left to die.
He married them so that they and their children can be protected and provided for, and set an example for his commanders and followers to do as well.
This is just one more common example of adaptibility. There are many others.
But today, with a rigidity coupled with mis-interpretation of the sacred holy book, the Pakistani moderates dare not voice out their thoughts, but to follow as the herd moves, knowing full well they may just be the next to be sacrificed, for the terrorists have no care nor concern for ANY humanity.
Every man, women and child fears each other as being radicalised when that fear is self imposed and generated by only a handful of radical clerics and their dogs.
Fear of being made an apostate and driven out of the community. Fear of being shamed and left to starve. Fear of being terrorised themselves. Fear is the weapon the minority radicals welds to keep the larger community in check.
Moderate Muslims outside Pakistan must help to dispel such fears and give strength to fellow moderates to stand up courageously. They share the same faith and pray to the same Almighty. There is no interference of a country's affairs. It is only religion.
Only intelligent and educated moderate muslims can now save the beautiful and peaceful religion from being hijacked and regressed by evil and illiterate men/women. While there is still time and billions still live.
Munching me cornflakes...wow!~wars n wars, aint crusaders going to end one day, its been centuries since Jews, christianity and muslims are fighting among each other and killing each other, if religions are born to create wars, then i will be damn. It better not to be created in the first place, or perhaps these countries whose birthrates are all times high are trying to reduce their population, otherwise, it get overcrowded, hmmm...maybe
It is good news from the Pakistan Islamic Party on its acceptance of US President Obama's call for a new approach to Islam.
As I had mentioned before, to beat a regressive ideology is not by missiles, tanks and soldiers, but by another more progressive ideology.
Islam was meant to be a progressive ideology.
The good prophet Muhammed received the epiphany was a purpose to uplift and progress the lives of the arab people during the 6th century, a time of the dark age, where the rule of the sword was prevalent instead of law, of barbarism from tribal arab leaders clamouring or power and domination from the crumbling Byzantine Roman empire.
Thus, Islam was and still is meant to be a progressive ideology.
Throughout his dynasty, by the grace of the Almighty, it truly uplifted the lives of arabs from arab and roman despots.
Science, mathematics and architecture flourished even after the Mongols took over and the culture reached its peak when Caliph Saladdin reigned, acknowledged as a chivarious warrior during the crusades even by his enemies - the western crusader world, till rapacious and cruel Ottoman Turks seized power.
The Ottoman remnants still exists today in asia and even south-east asia, a throwback to the pre-Islam Arabs whom despotically ruled and determined to undermine the progress Islam was intended to be.
Our nation's Muslim young proffesional association could perhaps take the initiative and seek to help Obama's efforts to defend the Koran from the false prophet Osama in Pakistan thru the offices of MFA and the US embassy in Singapore?
I would gladly leave everything I have here if I were a muslim and volunteer my services. There is no greater service than to defend the Koran, the hard work and efforts of progressive million Islamic ancestors whom only want to progress the lives of muslims, and they would weep at how Osama and his gang had destroy the religion thru murders of innocent thousands in the name of the muslim Almighty.
And it would save billions of innocent lives, mostly ignorant of the dangers of modern nuclear warfare, nullifying an ancient prophecy and modern indicators.
No parent would willing sacrifice their children, and we are but creations of the Almighty, paying homage to Him under various names, even atheists whom He is called Chance or Luck deep down in their secret hearts till they ultimately and eventually in time will call out His real name and acknowlege Him and His merciful greatness, made in His image.
He too, would weep at the horrific destruction of innocent men, women and espacially children, in the hands of the false prophet and his demonic regressive gangs.
The deaths of innocent men, women, children, Beslan and our fellow citizen Ms Lo Hwee Yen, and future more human sacrifices if Osama and his gang is not stopped, must not be in vain, I plead to moderate muslims.
Originally posted by xtreyier:It is good news from the Pakistan Islamic Party on its acceptance of US President Obama's call for a new approach to Islam.
As I had mentioned before, to beat a regressive ideology is not by missiles, tanks and soldiers, but by another more progressive ideology.
Islam was meant to be a progressive ideology.
The good prophet Muhammed received the epiphany was a purpose to uplift and progress the lives of the arab people during the 6th century, a time of the dark age, where the rule of the sword was prevalent instead of law, of barbarism from tribal arab leaders clamouring or power and domination from the crumbling Byzantine Roman empire.
Thus, Islam was and still is meant to be a progressive ideology.
Throughout his dynasty, by the grace of the Almighty, it truly uplifted the lives of arabs from arab and roman despots.
Science, mathematics and architecture flourished even after the Mongols took over and the culture reached its peak when Caliph Saladdin reigned, acknowledged as a chivarious warrior during the crusades even by his enemies - the western crusader world, till rapacious and cruel Ottoman Turks seized power.
The Ottoman remnants still exists today in asia and even south-east asia, a throwback to the pre-Islam Arabs whom despotically ruled and determined to undermine the progress Islam was intended to be.
Our nation's Muslim young proffesional association could perhaps take the initiative and seek to help Obama's efforts to defend the Koran from the false prophet Osama in Pakistan thru the offices of MFA and the US embassy in Singapore?
I would gladly leave everything I have here if I were a muslim and volunteer my services. There is no greater service than to defend the Koran, the hard work and efforts of progressive million Islamic ancestors whom only want to progress the lives of muslims, and they would weep at how Osama and his gang had destroy the religion thru murders of innocent thousands in the name of the muslim Almighty.
And it would save billions of innocent lives, mostly ignorant of the dangers of modern nuclear warfare, nullifying an ancient prophecy and modern indicators.
No parent would willing sacrifice their children, and we are but creations of the Almighty, paying homage to Him under various names, even atheists whom He is called Chance or Luck deep down in their secret hearts till they ultimately and eventually in time will call out His real name and acknowlege Him and His merciful greatness, made in His image.
He too, would weep at the horrific destruction of innocent men, women and espacially children, in the hands of the false prophet and his demonic regressive gangs.
The deaths of innocent men, women, children, Beslan and our fellow citizen Ms Lo Hwee Yen, and future more human sacrifices if Osama and his gang is not stopped, must not be in vain, I plead to moderate muslims.
The Muslims in general do not like using the term"moderate Muslims". It's an indication that they have politically sell out the militant Muslims like the Hamas to the other side(the enemies of Islam).