Alarm Spreads Over Use of Lethal New Weapons
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MIDEAST: Alarm Spreads Over Use of Lethal New Weapons
By Erin Cunninghamhttp://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45503
GAZA CITY, Jan 22 (IPS) - Eighteen-year-old Mona Al-Ashkar says she did not immediately know the first explosion at the United Nations (UN) school in Beit Lahiya had blown her left leg off. There was smoke, then chaos, then the pain and disbelief set in once she realised it was gone - completely severed by the weapon that hit her.
Mona is one of the many patients among the 5,500 injured that have international and Palestinian doctors baffled by the type of weaponry used in the Israeli operation. High-profile human rights organisations like Amnesty International are accusing Israel of war crimes.
Mona's doctors at Gaza City's Al-Shifa hospital found no shrapnel in her leg, and it looked as though it had been "sliced right off with a knife."
"We are not sure exactly what type of weapon can manage to do that immediately and so cleanly," said Dr. Sobhi Skaik, consultant surgeon general at Al-Shifa hospital. "What is happening is frightening. It's possible the Israeli army was using Gaza to experiment militarily."
Both international organisations and human rights groups, including the UN, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, have condemned Israel's use of unconventional weapons in civilian areas of the Gaza Strip.
Amnesty International's chief researcher for Israel and the Palestinian Territories, Donatella Rovera, told IPS in Beit Lahiya that Israel's use of white phosphorus and other "area weapons" on civilian populations amounted to war crimes.
"The kind of weapons used and the manner in which they were used indicates prima facie evidence of war crimes," she said.
Israel announced Wednesday it would be launching its own probe into reported use of white phosphorus, but has so far refused to comment further.
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog, said it would look into a claim made by the ambassadors of a number of Arab nations that Israel used depleted uranium in its recent attacks on Gaza.
Local doctors say a number of both widespread and unusual injuries may indicate that new types of weapons were used on the Gaza population during the war. Health officials are seeing wounds they have never seen before, or at least not on such a massive scale.
"There has been a significant loss of life here in Gaza for reasons that are unexplainable medically," said Dr. Skaik.
Mona's injury is characteristic of Dense Inert Metal Explosives (DIME). DIMEs are munitions that, packed with tungsten powder, produce an intense explosion at about the level of the knee, with signs of severe heat at the point of amputation.
"If you ask a patient how it happened, how their leg was removed, they won't know," Dr. Skaik said. "They'll say that a rocket or missile exploded and took only their lower limbs off."
Once in the body, tungsten is both difficult to detect and extremely carcinogenic, and can produce an aggressive form of cancer, according to both military experts.
Dr. Skaik says the Al-Shifa hospital alone has seen between 100 to 150 patients with this type of injury. Over 50 patients at Al-Shifa had two or more limbs severed, he says.
But because Gaza's hospitals are so poorly equipped, it has been nearly impossible so far to test properly for the substances and count accurately how many wounded Palestinians may have been hit with this weapon.
The Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert who worked at Al-Shifa hospital during the siege confirmed to journalists that the injuries were aligned with those produced by DIME explosives.
Human rights groups say Israel used the weapon for the first time in Lebanon in 2006.
What is worrying health officials even more, however, is that some of the patients' organs are being ruptured with little or no sign of a shrapnel entry point.
This is something they have never seen before, they say, and also something they do not know how to treat.
"Normal shrapnel has a clear path, with both an entry and an exit point," said Dr. Mohamed Al-Ron, another surgeon at Al-Shifa hospital.
"But someone's entire abdomen will be ripped open, and only after searching will we find a miniscule hole in the skin. Then we will find small black dots all over the organ, but we don't know what they are."
It is an indication, he continued, that whatever is entering the body is exploding and doing the damage once it is inside. Multiple organs will fail, and will continue to fail even after surgery removes any shrapnel.
"We are consulting with international colleagues, and they are confirming that there is something unusual going on with these cases," said Dr. Skaik.
"We have seen plenty of nails, of metal shrapnel and foreign metallic parts, but there was never violence of this character or something that continued to damage even after the parts of the weapon were removed. What is being intentionally created is a population of handicapped people."
Some of the injuries, including multiple organ failure, mutilation and severed limbs, are so debilitating that Dr. Karim Hosni, an Egyptian doctor volunteering at the Al-Naser hospital in Khan Younis, says he wishes he could just end his patients' misery.
"Sometimes I wish my patients would just die," he said. "Their injuries are so horrifying, that I know they will now have to lead terrible and painful lives." (END/2009) -
There are more reports on Gaza at BBC website. Most world bodies like Amnestry International, UN humanitarian officials including the Sec.Gen. Mr Ban Kim Moon, Human Rights, Red Cross, etc have seen the destruction and illegal use of weapons. Even 155mm artillery shells which have the power to destroy human lives and properties within a radius of 300metres were used by Israel. This destruction and human suffering is worse than Iraq, Afganistan, Darfur, Rowanda. Therefore, I hope Mr Ban Ki Moon will have the moral courage to pursue further through UN and not just lip-service and stop there. I also like to see world leaders have the moral courage to make statements on this issue in the UN.
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i believe this is not the 1st case of new lethal weapons being tested under the cover of a justifiable cause....They just go unreported...
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What's the purpose of such weapon?
You either kill your enemy straight or disable them from fighting temporarily.
Why use weapons that are design to torture your enemies slowly for years to come, even after the war? What's the point in that?
Besides, the people hurt in this case aren't even the ones fighting the war. A 18 year-old student for goodness sake, only one year younger than me :S
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Well...considering you need several adults to take care of 1 crippled person this tactic allows you to tie down the adults in the general population....
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Well...considering you need several adults to take care of 1 crippled person this tactic allows you to tie down the adults in the general population....
The problem with satanic equations is that that kind of thinking leads into a very deep hole. I can already think of a counter to this tactic but for the sake of decency won't expound. Those who think they can get away without payback for the shit they cause are unwise and unfit to be leaders.
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
The problem with satanic equations is that that kind of thinking leads into a very deep hole. I can already think of a counter to this tactic but for the sake of decency won't expound. Those who think they can get away without payback for the shit they cause are unwise and unfit to be leaders.
so you too think its not ok to use civilians as human shields?
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Hamas fired rockets into Israel.
Hamas cannot protect it's citizens from the consequences of its action.
Hamas used UN, Gazans, the press as human shields in the war.
Hamas declared "Victory" amidst the pain and rubble in Gaza.
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An Iranian reformist daily newspaper has criticized Hamas "for risking lives of civilians, amongst them children, by hiding its forces in nurseries and hospitals." This is reported in today's Palestinian daily Al-Ayyam. The Palestinian daily adds that in response the Iranian government has closed the newspaper.
The following is the story in today's Al-Ayyam:
Headline: "Iran closes a reformist newspaper, for publishing a report criticizing Hamas"
"The Iranian news agency "Irna" reported yesterday, that the Iranian Culture Ministry has closed the reformist daily newspaper "Karjo Zaran", because it published a report that included criticism of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).
On December 30 the paper published a statement of a reformist student organization, that has criticized Hamas for risking lives of civilians, amongst them children, by hiding its forces in nurseries and hospitals. The statement was published whilst the Iranian government expresses a unified stands against Israel, and Tehran is overwhelmed by demonstrations against Israel."
[Al-Ayyam, Jan. 1, 2009] -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
An Iranian reformist daily newspaper has criticized Hamas "for risking lives of civilians, amongst them children, by hiding its forces in nurseries and hospitals." This is reported in today's Palestinian daily Al-Ayyam. The Palestinian daily adds that in response the Iranian government has closed the newspaper.
The following is the story in today's Al-Ayyam:
Headline: "Iran closes a reformist newspaper, for publishing a report criticizing Hamas"
"The Iranian news agency "Irna" reported yesterday, that the Iranian Culture Ministry has closed the reformist daily newspaper "Karjo Zaran", because it published a report that included criticism of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).
On December 30 the paper published a statement of a reformist student organization, that has criticized Hamas for risking lives of civilians, amongst them children, by hiding its forces in nurseries and hospitals. The statement was published whilst the Iranian government expresses a unified stands against Israel, and Tehran is overwhelmed by demonstrations against Israel."
[Al-Ayyam, Jan. 1, 2009]Al-Ayyam is a pro-Fatah paper and will print anything if its paid enough, much like other organs of Zionist propaganda I suppose. Its cute that you talk about Fatah as if it won any elections and is somehow representative of Palestinian interests. Everybody knows Abbas is the chief of the Palestinian Judenrat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenrat
On the issue of Hamas using human shields, again, we have the satanic Israeli thinkers to thank for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields#Gaza_and_the_West_Bank
"Amnesty International[3] and Human Rights Watch[4] assert the Israel Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem reported that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the second intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[5][6] The practice was outlawed by the Supreme Court of Israel in 2005 but human rights groups insist the IDF continues to use it, although they acknowledge the number of instances has dropped sharply.[5][7]In February 2007, Associated Press Television News released footage of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian. The video appears to show the West Bank resident serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers.[7][8] The video can be seen on the AP website. The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident.[7] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank raid.[9]
In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokeman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group.[10]"
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
Al-Ayyam is a pro-Fatah paper and will print anything if its paid enough, much like other organs of Zionist propaganda I suppose. Its cute that you talk about Fatah as if it won any elections and is somehow representative of Palestinian interests. Everybody knows Abbas is the chief of the Palestinian Judenrat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenrat
On the issue of Hamas using human shields, again, we have the satanic Israeli thinkers to thank for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields#Gaza_and_the_West_Bank
"Amnesty International[3] and Human Rights Watch[4] assert the Israel Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem reported that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the second intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[5][6] The practice was outlawed by the Supreme Court of Israel in 2005 but human rights groups insist the IDF continues to use it, although they acknowledge the number of instances has dropped sharply.[5][7]In February 2007, Associated Press Television News released footage of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian. The video appears to show the West Bank resident serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers.[7][8] The video can be seen on the AP website. The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident.[7] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank raid.[9]
In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokeman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group.[10]"
Fatah also Palestinians, Gazans. but now based in West Bank.
West Bank relatively peaceful, isn't it?...
I will come back to talk about Jenin after my visits to senior relatives, some time in the afternoon.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Fatah also Palestinians, Gazans. but now based in West Bank.
West Bank relatively peaceful, isn't it?...
I will come back to talk about Jenin after my visits to senior relatives, some time in the afternoon.
You an Israeli apologetic. Yes, the IDF is not dropping JDAMS in the West Bank if that's what you call peaceful. I'm sure the settlers in Sderot, for all their self-inflicted woes, would not want to swap places with the people in the West Bank, yes? Who after all want to live in an open air prison right?
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
Yes, I guess in your playbook putting the Palestinian population in prisons administered by Palestinian jailers is a good idea. For their own good as it were. Self-interest over cooperative relationships are the order of the day for the one who has the monopoly on violence. I fully understand.
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Anything goes in war...... as long as you win. Might is right.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Anything goes in war...... as long as you win. Might is right.
The ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a simple geographic battle where simplistic calculations of Might is Right can be applied. I tell you, the way things are going the Israelis are going to lose this one. Olmert said as much when he brought up the possibility of Isreal no longer being able to counter the accusations that it is essentially a racist apartheid regime.
What I do not understand is why any Singaporean, if any, would want to justify these courses of action. Surely, the paradigm of conflict between the Palestinians and Isrealis do not fit with the current reality of Singapore. In fact, is it not better as a Singaporean to support courses of action that are mutually beneficial.
The Turks floated the idea of turning Gaza into an industrial zone but the Isrealis rejected the idea. Is this not a sign of bad faith and unprofitable thinking? An investment is peaceful coexistence pays of handsome dividends to those who can think clearly. Are we in Singapore reaping the benefits of peaceful coexistence or are we reaping the benefits of expansionistic militancy? Insecurities aside, we have to admit honestly to ourselves that it is peaceful cooperation that has served us well. I cannot speak for the foreign policy directions of our government but I think normal Singaporeans should have an ethical principled stand on this matter, as least for the sake of our own self-interests. To support the Isreali arguments with all its lies, in the current climate of political thinking, is an expression of an unprofitable ideological stance, not of rational analysis.
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Isreal had been warmongering since ancient times...
Believing that they're still the so called chosen race...how can they just sit and let every other country or race stand superior?
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
The ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a simple geographic battle where simplistic calculations of Might is Right can be applied. I tell you, the way things are going the Israelis are going to lose this one. Olmert said as much when he brought up the possibility of Isreal no longer being able to counter the accusations that it is essentially a racist apartheid regime.
What I do not understand is why any Singaporean, if any, would want to justify these courses of action. Surely, the paradigm of conflict between the Palestinians and Isrealis do not fit with the current reality of Singapore. In fact, is it not better as a Singaporean to support courses of action that are mutually beneficial.
The Turks floated the idea of turning Gaza into an industrial zone but the Isrealis rejected the idea. Is this not a sign of bad faith and unprofitable thinking? An investment is peaceful coexistence pays of handsome dividends to those who can think clearly. Are we in Singapore reaping the benefits of peaceful coexistence or are we reaping the benefits of expansionistic militancy? Insecurities aside, we have to admit honestly to ourselves that it is peaceful cooperation that has served us well. I cannot speak for the foreign policy directions of our government but I think normal Singaporeans should have an ethical principled stand on this matter, as least for the sake of our own self-interests. To support the Isreali arguments with all its lies, in the current climate of political thinking, is an expression of an unprofitable ideological stance, not of rational analysis.
Now that's being far too simplistic. Israel does not have to concern itself with your 'rationalistic analysis' anymore than it did with UN Resolutions 194 and 242 calling for the right of return for palestinian refugees. Israel has ignored its critics for 60 years. Is anyone willing or able to do anything about it? No, might is right.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Now that's being far too simplistic. Israel does not have to concern itself with your 'rationalistic analysis' anymore than it did with UN Resolutions 194 and 242 calling for the right of return for palestinian refugees. Israel has ignored its critics for 60 years. Is anyone willing or able to do anything about it? No, might is right.
Indeed, "might is right" seems to be the guiding principle of the Zionist action plan. Humans work on the principle of reciprocity so the stronger party has the ability to define the terms of engagement. By seeking the complete extermination of the Palestinian population, by betraying at every turn all attempts at peaceful settlement and acting like the biblical Beast, the state of Israel has chosen to define the conflict only in terms of violence, couching the issue in terms which it feels will allow it to totally shut out the idea of a two state solution.
However, by doing this Israel is now divorcing itself from all pretensions of moral superiority, it is betraying everything that is holy in Judaism. Either Judaism is a blood thirsty tribal religion or the leaders of Israel are not representatives of Judaism. Every Jew will have to consider what the nature of Eloh is and what it means to be a Jew. I'm sure some have already decided.
To a muslim, the stand taken by the Israeli government is unacceptable because it is satanic and so they will support the Palestinians. This is why it is important for the Isrealis to foist the neutered Mahmud Abbas and his corrupt Fatah unto the Palestinians because this will nullify muslim support. But the muslims are not stupid. I'm sure the Israel Zionist supporters know this too and so it must be that they will treat all muslims and all peoples who believe in a compassionate and holy God, as enemies. And so people everywhere must decide either to accept the actions of Israel as justified or to reject it and say that this course of action is wrong and must not be allowed to continue. In time, the Isrealis will learn that by asking people to support an unholy course, that they have taken on a greater enemy. They will find that they have lost the balance of power and that they can no longer dictate the terms of engagement. This will not be an overnight process but it has already started.
I'm sure there is a lesson in this somewhere for all of us.
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
Al-Ayyam is a pro-Fatah paper and will print anything if its paid enough, much like other organs of Zionist propaganda I suppose. Its cute that you talk about Fatah as if it won any elections and is somehow representative of Palestinian interests. Everybody knows Abbas is the chief of the Palestinian Judenrat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenrat
On the issue of Hamas using human shields, again, we have the satanic Israeli thinkers to thank for that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields#Gaza_and_the_West_Bank
"Amnesty International[3] and Human Rights Watch[4] assert the Israel Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem reported that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the second intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[5][6] The practice was outlawed by the Supreme Court of Israel in 2005 but human rights groups insist the IDF continues to use it, although they acknowledge the number of instances has dropped sharply.[5][7]In February 2007, Associated Press Television News released footage of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian. The video appears to show the West Bank resident serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers.[7][8] The video can be seen on the AP website. The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident.[7] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank raid.[9]
In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokeman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group.[10]"
OK. Now, let's talk about the Jenin Massacre.
The counting of casualties: Numbers from between 500-800 and16,000 people slaughtered.
The UN authors scoured through second and third-hand resources, never visiting the camp or talking to eyewitnesses. A report with such resources can hardly be described as conclusive. (The UN is repeating the same way of issuing its reports on the Operation Lead Cast.)
Human Rights Watch (HRW) released the first report on the Jenin massacre but only after seven days of investigation.
Many media reports on Jenin were biased against Israel, inflating casualty numbers. TV screens around the world featured Palestinian eyewitnesses who gave 'exact' details of blood-curdling actions by IDF.
It took months of investigations for human rights org and UN to finally issue reports to refute those Palestinian claims of a massacre. There was no massacre, no ethnic cleansing, no intentional destruction of hospitals.
Final count:
Palestinian officials put the death toll at 56 only.
Human rights watch - 52 killed. While focusing mainly on IDF actions(as usual), the report also stated that:
Palestinian gunmen did endanger civilians in the camp by using it as a base for planning and launching attacks, planting IED within the camp and intermingling with the civilians during the comflict.
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
You an Israeli apologetic. Yes, the IDF is not dropping JDAMS in the West Bank if that's what you call peaceful. I'm sure the settlers in Sderot, for all their self-inflicted woes, would not want to swap places with the people in the West Bank, yes? Who after all want to live in an open air prison right?
ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
Yes, I guess in your playbook putting the Palestinian population in prisons administered by Palestinian jailers is a good idea. For their own good as it were. Self-interest over cooperative relationships are the order of the day for the one who has the monopoly on violence. I fully understand.
You were hoping that the Arabs in West Bank would open another front for IDF to launch a retaliatory attack?
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
The ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a simple geographic battle where simplistic calculations of Might is Right can be applied. I tell you, the way things are going the Israelis are going to lose this one. Olmert said as much when he brought up the possibility of Isreal no longer being able to counter the accusations that it is essentially a racist apartheid regime.
What I do not understand is why any Singaporean, if any, would want to justify these courses of action. Surely, the paradigm of conflict between the Palestinians and Isrealis do not fit with the current reality of Singapore. In fact, is it not better as a Singaporean to support courses of action that are mutually beneficial.
The Turks floated the idea of turning Gaza into an industrial zone but the Isrealis rejected the idea. Is this not a sign of bad faith and unprofitable thinking? An investment is peaceful coexistence pays of handsome dividends to those who can think clearly. Are we in Singapore reaping the benefits of peaceful coexistence or are we reaping the benefits of expansionistic militancy? Insecurities aside, we have to admit honestly to ourselves that it is peaceful cooperation that has served us well. I cannot speak for the foreign policy directions of our government but I think normal Singaporeans should have an ethical principled stand on this matter, as least for the sake of our own self-interests. To support the Isreali arguments with all its lies, in the current climate of political thinking, is an expression of an unprofitable ideological stance, not of rational analysis.
lol do you think singapore would have a peaceful coexistence here if there's no SAF? singaporeans more than anyone should understand might is right. even in our society boss see your face not happy find a reason to sack you also lan lan. in politics boundries get shifted by whoever has the power to ensure higher chances of winning.
if to support the Isreali arguments with all its lies, in the current climate of political thinking, is an expression of an unprofitable ideological stance, not of rational analysis. what about your support of hamas in the same way? why are you encouraging ethical thinking from singaporeans against israel and "profitable" when it comes to hamas?
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Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
Indeed, "might is right" seems to be the guiding principle of the Zionist action plan. Humans work on the principle of reciprocity so the stronger party has the ability to define the terms of engagement. By seeking the complete extermination of the Palestinian population, by betraying at every turn all attempts at peaceful settlement and acting like the biblical Beast, the state of Israel has chosen to define the conflict only in terms of violence, couching the issue in terms which it feels will allow it to totally shut out the idea of a two state solution.
However, by doing this Israel is now divorcing itself from all pretensions of moral superiority, it is betraying everything that is holy in Judaism. Either Judaism is a blood thirsty tribal religion or the leaders of Israel are not representatives of Judaism. Every Jew will have to consider what the nature of Eloh is and what it means to be a Jew. I'm sure some have already decided.
To a muslim, the stand taken by the Israeli government is unacceptable because it is satanic and so they will support the Palestinians. This is why it is important for the Isrealis to foist the neutered Mahmud Abbas and his corrupt Fatah unto the Palestinians because this will nullify muslim support. But the muslims are not stupid. I'm sure the Israel Zionist supporters know this too and so it must be that they will treat all muslims and all peoples who believe in a compassionate and holy God, as enemies. And so people everywhere must decide either to accept the actions of Israel as justified or to reject it and say that this course of action is wrong and must not be allowed to continue. In time, the Isrealis will learn that by asking people to support an unholy course, that they have taken on a greater enemy. They will find that they have lost the balance of power and that they can no longer dictate the terms of engagement. This will not be an overnight process but it has already started.
I'm sure there is a lesson in this somewhere for all of us.
like what? israel is unholy? so what went wrong is israel is unholy so everyone must support the muslims and destroy israel?
why is it i feel if the situation would to be reversed you would be using the same arguement to say the israelis deserved genocide?
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
like what? israel is unholy? so what went wrong is israel is unholy so everyone must support the muslims and destroy israel?
why is it i feel if the situation would to be reversed you would be using the same arguement to say the israelis deserved genocide?
As I stated earlier, I fully understand the concept of "might is right" and that it operates in the real world. I also agree that the SAF has served a useful role in the defence of Singapore. But I remind you that the SAF is not an all Chinese non-muslim force. "Might is right" cannot be the only language one speaks to a weaker human being. If you do this to a child, that will be called child abuse. I'm sure you also can understand this. You must admit that Singapore has come so far because it has been pragmatic, in the full sense of the word. Any sane intelligent person can understand that the choice to only use violence when dealing with a weaker party will not ensure long term security.
You ask "what went wrong is israel is unholy so everyone must support the muslims and destroy israel?". I do not agree that Israel should be destroyed and I also do not believe "everyone" supports muslims and I don't think all muslims want the destruction of Israel but I think if there is a perception that people do not agree with the actions of Israel with regards to the current Gaza attacks, it is because it has resulted in large numbers of civilian casualties and that the objective of protecting the illegal settlers can be achieved by other means. For example, Israel could have used the C-RAM anti-missile system to protect Sderot. If Singapore was in real danger of homemade rockets being fired from Johor, we could probably have purchased the C-rams, deployed it at the border and sought international help to freeze out the Malaysian government and make them stop the attacks being conducted on their soil. This is because we are pragmatic. If we think carefully from this example, we can see that the Israeli action in Gaza was not intended to ensure the long-term security of Sderot. What then are the Isreali objectives? This then is the beginning of the deep dark hole. -
Originally posted by frakfrakfrak:
The Turks floated the idea of turning Gaza into an industrial zone but the Isrealis rejected the idea.
I hope you can provide details to back your claim that Israel reject the idea.
The Turk delegation dropped plans to pump more money into Gaza and became interested in the more peaceful West Bank under Abbas, which is more economically viable..
Are you green with envy that businessmen have broad interests in improving West Bank's economy?
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Meh.. Wake me up when they abolish all nuclear weapons in the world. Going "Wah Wah Wah LEthal Weapons!" is kinda meaningless when we have weapons designed to obliterate whole cities.
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Lethal weapons, how ironic. Maybe the Israelis should start using Tazers instead.
