Opposition - Where To?: A public forum 7 Feb 09, Saturday
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wow nobody can outtalk the man, atobe
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
wow nobody can outtalk the man, atobe
I second that.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
As was mentioned before - only a chimpanzee will know the language and work with the gorillas, how many bananas have the gorillas given you that keep your eyes off their peanuts ?
Since when have you said anything about my inability to accept any facts ?
Are you still in your tour of creativity despite being banged about ?
Is political stability what Singaporeans want now, or is the need to resolve their financial situation the first thing on their minds ?
With GIC and Temasek losing $100 BILLION in some NON-Transparent ways - can Singapore expect any economic or financial stability, or are we to prepare ourselves for speculative attacks that will destabilise our Singapore Dollar ?
Can any political party win any election that is controlled by the PAP - when they control the ways the legislations are drafted and passed into laws, the electoral boundaries manipulated, the print and broadcast media being monopolised, the Civil Service mobilised to support the PAP machinery, and the entire Singapore population placed in a state of close-watched seige ?
Only a chimpanzee overfed with bananas will soon sing the song of the gorillas.
It clearly showed that you have not read the books that CSJ had written that went beyond what you think he concentrates on.
Try reading it before you are made to look like a real chimp.
It is best that you think over and crystalize what you have said before you are made to look like a stuffed banana instead of being a chimp.
If you are trying to be a gorilla when you are no better than a chimpanzee, try to learn to crack a peanut with your banana first.
Since when does Financial White Paper deal with "int-sec and ex-sec" issues - whatever you intend to impress everyone with ?
Certainly you do not deserve the beans that CSJ spill, when you go hungry with all the bananas and peanuts being rotten.
Only the chimpanzees will help the gorillas to hide the peanut shells in exchange for the rotten bananas, so that no one will ever know how much peanuts have been consumed without anyone knowing.
Simple minded fool, I have explained my stance and yet you just try and find fault in the fur.
Is political stability what Singaporeans want now, or is the need to resolve their financial situation the first thing on their minds ?
Political stability has links with finiancial stability. Not knowing when and where to agitate equates to political stupidity.
With GIC and Temasek losing $100 BILLION in some NON-Transparent ways - can Singapore expect any economic or financial stability, or are we to prepare ourselves for speculative attacks that will destabilise our Singapore Dollar ?
First place, Singapore is dependent on the external market as our internal market is small. Speculative attacks on our market will deappreciate our Dollar but such attacks are not 1 way streets. How much preparation can Singapore make against such destability? Have an infinite reserve amount?
Since when does Financial White Paper deal with "int-sec and ex-sec" issues - whatever you intend to impress everyone with ?
How much money does our government spend each year on defence? How much must be the unpublicsized amount that goes into the intelligence accounts? Everybody knows that the Budget have areas that cannot be debated upon.
Can any political party win any election that is controlled by the PAP - when they control the ways the legislations are drafted and passed into laws, the electoral boundaries manipulated, the print and broadcast media being monopolised, the Civil Service mobilised to support the PAP machinery, and the entire Singapore population placed in a state of close-watched seige ?
Legislations being passed into law can be vetoed once by the president if he or she feels it is ridiculous. However, Atobe just cannot understand that the only way the alternative can get into power is via the legal way- election. Coups do not lead to democracy.
It clearly showed that you have not read the books that CSJ had written that went beyond what you think he concentrates on.
I have professionals in the technical r&d line who asked CSJ 5 years ago about research that are deemed presently illegal if the laws will be overturned when he gets into power, CSJ answered that he would consider keeping such laws in place. How the hell new industries can be created under such conservative pride?
Only the chimpanzees will help the gorillas to hide the peanut shells in exchange for the rotten bananas, so that no one will ever know how much peanuts have been consumed without anyone knowing.
Talking about yourself? Come on, please don't harp that your views are the one and only true alternative view when there are hundreds of possible views out there. The people of Singapore knows that CSJ is not making the mark yet and Atobe is acting like the chimpanzee asking for banana handouts from the gorillas.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Simple minded fool, I have explained my stance and yet you just try and find fault in the fur.
Simple minded fool ?
You give too much credit to yourself to be able to recognise the simplicity that has been attempted to help your comprehension with the on-going discussion.
What stance have you attempted to explain - when you have dropped each of your stance that have been proven to be empty, or false, or embarrassingly stupid, and resulting in you dropping those various stances from Page 2 through Page 5 ?
If you know how to keep your chimpanzee fur well groomed, do we need to find any fault in your fur ?
Is political stability what Singaporeans want now, or is the need to resolve their financial situation the first thing on their minds ?
Political stability has links with finiancial stability. Not knowing when and where to agitate equates to political stupidity.
The stupidity in your stance seems to be infinite when you are determined to believe that your stupendous intellect outweighs those who have experienced political stability without financial stability, AND vice-versa.
Are you suggesting that without Financial Stability there can be NO Political Stability, or are you suggesting that without Political Stability there cannot be Financial Stability ?
If you cannot make up your mind, try sucking on your banana and consult your head chimpanzee - who probably knows the answer better then you.
With GIC and Temasek losing $100 BILLION in some NON-Transparent ways - can Singapore expect any economic or financial stability, or are we to prepare ourselves for speculative attacks that will destabilise our Singapore Dollar ?
First place, Singapore is dependent on the external market as our internal market is small. Speculative attacks on our market will deappreciate our Dollar but such attacks are not 1 way streets. How much preparation can Singapore make against such destability? Have an infinite reserve amount?
Only you will be gullible enough to depend on the gorrillas feeding you with an endless supply of bananas to believe that Singapore is dependent totally on external markets.
With each of the 1987, 1997 and 2004 economic downturn, the PAP Government had set up Economic Review Committees with several sub-committees specialising in different areas of researches to find new ways to solve old problems that keep recurring. Each time in the last 20 years, a common call was for the Government to take less from Singaporeans and allow Private Capital to grow so as to result in the growth of entrepreneurialship. The call was made for the growth of the small and medium enterprises that are more flexible and agile in withstanding economic shake-ups, and will be able to support a large workforce if the spread is wider.
This call was based on the Small and Medium Enterprises not necessarily targetting the World as a Global Market for all the goods and services produced, but for the Government to be less directly involved in the monopoly of such domestically oriented activities that would have been better served by Private Small and Medium Enterprises.
With a second tier economy with built-in resillience against any external influences, any major economic disruption or fractures forced onto the world economies will not affect us in a big way - as the resillient Swiss economy has shown.
Have we even made such preparation despite the reports from the last THREE Economic Recovery Committees formed after the LAST 3 Economic Downturns ?
If you believe that no infinite amount of reserves can defend us from "financial destability" - what do you suggest to be done, now that we have lost $100 BILLION from our Reserves ?
It is an amazing concept that your creative mind can produce the "1-way street" idea - which probably is a result from being fed with too much bananas by the Gorillas.
Since when does Financial White Paper deal with "int-sec and ex-sec" issues - whatever you intend to impress everyone with ?
How much money does our government spend each year on defence? How much must be the unpublicsized amount that goes into the intelligence accounts? Everybody knows that the Budget have areas that cannot be debated upon.
Is it not amazing that before your banana fed mind can cope with building our economy - or even hold LKY and Ho Ching accountable for the $100 Billion loss - you will want to involve yourself with the amount of peanuts secretly spent to gold plate the bananas for your pleasure.
Not too smart to tell us that it must be kept a secret so that others will not use to attack or destabilize us, as when the secret information is out and others know how much peanut is used to produce a golden banana for your entertainment, we will all get no peanuts as well as no bananas - let alone golden bananas.
Can any political party win any election that is controlled by the PAP - when they control the ways the legislations are drafted and passed into laws, the electoral boundaries manipulated, the print and broadcast media being monopolised, the Civil Service mobilised to support the PAP machinery, and the entire Singapore population placed in a state of close-watched seige ?
Legislations being passed into law can be vetoed once by the president if he or she feels it is ridiculous. However, Atobe just cannot understand that the only way the alternative can get into power is via the legal way- election. Coups do not lead to democracy.
Was the original 2-Key system to protect our Reserves not a good system ?
Was Parliamentarians given the freedom to vote - by having the Party Whip lifted - and allow every MP to vote according to their conscience representing the choice and decision of their respective Constituents ?
So far, no legislations have been passed freely by any Member of Parliament elected by Singaporeans; and half of those who are sitting in Parliament are not even elected by the People due to the Election System, Election Rules and Regulations, and Election Boundaries that are drawn and redrawn to dilute and confuse anyone who will want to challenge LKY and the PAP.
The Print and Broadcast Media are controlled to propagate the political ideas and opinions of LKY and the PAP, and the people are threatened, cajoled, and bribed with the practices that will surely corrupt any electoral system in democratic countries.
Is there any legal way - when the "Legality of the System" is false to begin with, and the system itself is based on illegal practices ?
Laws are rushed through the various stages without due process being observed, and rubber stamped into law - and made retroactive - is that legal ?
Were Singaporeans consulted about the changes to the Laws that affect our lives ?
What happened to the SWISS Standard of Living that was so proudly and loudly promoted by SM Goh ?
Is this the kind of SWISS Standard of Life with a Democratic System similar to the Swiss - where every Swiss is consulted on changes to ANY legislations that affect their political, social, economic well-being ?
Given enough bananas, you will probably see a misplaced banana skin on the floor as a 'coup attempt' to destabilise the Singapore political system, and cause the Government to slip on the banana skin and fall.
With the intellect of a chimp, you will probably ban all bananas from being imported with skin attached.
It clearly showed that you have not read the books that CSJ had written that went beyond what you think he concentrates on.
I have professionals in the technical r&d line who asked CSJ 5 years ago about research that are deemed presently illegal if the laws will be overturned when he gets into power, CSJ answered that he would consider keeping such laws in place. How the hell new industries can be created under such conservative pride?
This reply is a far cry from your original statement that CSJ is incapable of writing any books and with - "The books published by CSJ concentrates on anti-corruption and anti-cronism but hardly any word on plans for the economic future of Singapore."
Can we expect a chimpanzee - with friends in the Technical R&D line - to also know how CSJ should and did write about job creation, MNC hire and fire policies, education to prepare Singaporeans for a productive economic life in building the Singapore economy ?
How many friends do you have in the Technical R&D line that has influenced their opinion on you ?
Are they chimps too ? Perhaps fed with bananas that have been genetically modified ?
Can a chimpanzee fed on bananas know where the peanuts come from ?
Only the chimpanzees will help the gorillas to hide the peanut shells in exchange for the rotten bananas, so that no one will ever know how much peanuts have been consumed without anyone knowing.
Talking about yourself? Come on, please don't harp that your views are the one and only true alternative view when there are hundreds of possible views out there. The people of Singapore knows that CSJ is not making the mark yet and Atobe is acting like the chimpanzee asking for banana handouts from the gorillas.
Can a chimpanzee know that there are other things better then the bananas that has been fed with, and grown up with in a chimp's life ?
It is remarkable that a chimp like you can swing your opinion about CSJ - with your present statement that CSJ is not making the mark YET..... ???
What woke you up that you will believe that CSJ has made sufficient progress to the point of not quite making the mark yet ?
Have you decided to represent the majority of the people in Singapore in knowing about CSJ's antics - or has the chimp suddenly found his champ in CSJ, and is attempting to make a chimpanzee mark that supercede CSJ's antics ?
It is doubtful that anyone can outperform your effort in trying to beat CSJ to the mark and win more bananas for yourself from the gorillas.
With the amount of bananas that you have been feeding on - you are most welcome to the title as the Champ of all Chimps
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Can't understand why people don't support CSJ despite all he's done ?
Do I need to understand anyone who do not wish to support CSJ ?
Is that a life threatening issue ?
Seriously, you assume too much about everything and anything - perhaps you have too much time on your hands ?
Do I need to accept the status quo of any events that affect CSJ in one way or another ?
If you cannot read carefully what had transpired from Page 2 to Page 4 of this text, and prefer to indulge in your own preferred pre-conceived views of what the clear words have indicated, you are most welcome to your miscued views.
Do you seriously believe that what HZ's views that have been expressed by him will even represent anything from WP ?
It is amazing how you will dare to adopt a condescending position when your reading ability has failed so miserably, and you will dare even raise an opinion to tell others what your false reading tell you to say.
If everything is subjective, can there be any common values based on your criteria of the extent that subjectivity goes ?
The problem with your attitude displayed todate is the typical smugness of the fence sitter - one who does not commit to anything or any principle, have no opinions of any event or any issues - except towards those who dare to have one.
Can we believe that you do not read the Straits Times - not even a glance ?
You are a poor liar - even when attempting to hide behind a false print.
For one who is interested in finding faults, I am amazed that you only look for the petty ones from CSJ, but will not even highlight the more glaring issues that the PAP has - perhaps you have no opinions at all as you are no better then a PAP carpet beggar ?
Delusional ?
That is what you can only hope for every Singaporean who will find fault with the PAP.
Make up your mind - are you asking a question or making a commitment to your position ?
Are you not confirming what has been indicated about your the smugness of your decision to be a fence sitter ?
If you feel that way, why do you not even dare to form an opinion to state clearly what the PAP has done wrong, instead of nit picking on the mundane issues that is so characteristic of the PAP in degrading and belittling the Opposition Parties.
You have done yourself and Singaporeans a disservice.
Only a hypocritical humbug will accept a smug neutral reply and attempt to be friendly when the obvious honest reaction is a voice of loud protest.
By your own standards in criticising those in Parliament, you are measured as much by your own standards as you dare to measure others with the same.
Can you even know how - or even dare - to say what is on your own mind ?
Anyone who will judge others by the standard of a clown, will best be prepared to be judge by the same standard of measure.
Are you prepared to be measured in the same light ?
Judging from your performance so far, you have not been holding yourself too well - and as much as you believe that CSJ is a clown, at least he is prepared to put his foot where his mouth is - and paid the price without any loss of pride.
Have you the same quality of character ?
Sadly, yours is only that of a careful fence sitter.
Again, this conclusion is your own opinion based on your preferred way of interpreting issues that you have no principles to stand on.
It again reflects what has been said about you in my previous response.
The essence of what HZ had written from Page 2 to Page 4 is clear, his views and attitude has not been misconstrued, and I had tackled each one precisely that he prefer to drop them without any rebuttal - as they were based on false premise.
Your position taken with your skewed interpretation is similarly based on your own false readings that lead you to your preferred skewed conclusions, and you prefer to continue with your smug arguments based on your self-indulging exercise at some pseudo-intellectual arguments.
Will you dare to put your arguments on pure simple principles - whether on political or personal issues - instead of being a fence sitter, and criticise those with an opinion when you have none to begin with ?
There are alot of nit pickings to take find faults with to tarnish the image of anyone, but do you know how to take on the major issues ?
I am surprised that you will find so many faults with the SDP website, but yet have not even commented on a major issue that SDP or CSJ had brought up that is so relevant to the present political and financial events :
Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 2
In you own smugness, are you not displaying a dishonest part of yourself ?
Can't understand why people don't support CSJ despite all he's done ?
Do I need to understand anyone who do not wish to support CSJ ?
Is that a life threatening issue ?
Seriously, you assume too much about everything and anything - perhaps you have too much time on your hands ?
Do I need to accept the status quo of any events that affect CSJ in one way or another ?
no, honestly i feel that its not but your fervent defending of sdp and csj made it seem otherwise.
and i'm confused about my assumptions that you kept refering to, what did you assumed were my assumptions?
If you cannot read carefully what had transpired from Page 2 to Page 4 of this text, and prefer to indulge in your own preferred pre-conceived views of what the clear words have indicated, you are most welcome to your miscued views.
Do you seriously believe that what HZ's views that have been expressed by him will even represent anything from WP ?
he never mentioned anywhere his views represented the wp's only what wp means to him.
thats the way i read it the rest were added by you.
It is amazing how you will dare to adopt a condescending position when your reading ability has failed so miserably, and you will dare even raise an opinion to tell others what your false reading tell you to say.
i don't see where my reading is false in fact what i see is your denial of whats going on by rejecting views of anyone who do not see the same way as you do.
we all know that in all matters of mere opinion that [every] man is insane--just as insane as we are...we know exactly where to put our finger upon his insanity: it is where his opinion differs from ours....All Democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it. None but the Republicans. All the Republicans are insane, but only the Democrats can perceive it. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.
i don't see where my position is condescending unless of course you meant my lack of respect for someone i didn't feel worthy of any.
If everything is subjective, can there be any common values based on your criteria of the extent that subjectivity goes ?
The problem with your attitude displayed todate is the typical smugness of the fence sitter - one who does not commit to anything or any principle, have no opinions of any event or any issues - except towards those who dare to have one.
common values appear when enough people hold the same values, just because its subjective doesn't mean everyone's different. this is common sense.
the problem seems to lie more with you than me, you're the one who sees enemies around every corner. anyone who don't agree with your support and views of csj/sdp are slammed as fence sitters. i strongly believe i have expressed enough of my opinions in this forum enough to refute this part of your post. and considering that we don't know each other offline and you're not looking at my past postings aren't you assuming a lot about me? or are you going to post my personal info next to proof that you know me well enough?
Can we believe that you do not read the Straits Times - not even a glance ?
You are a poor liar - even when attempting to hide behind a false print.
so if one claims he doesn't read the straits times does it mean he cannot even take a glance? does it mean he has to dig a hole and throw himself in it whenever someone walks past with a copy ?
have i taken a vow of celibacy against the straits times? i said i don't straits times because i simply don't read it. its not attractive to me. i don't like its reporting, its news.don't you find something wrong with the way you think? or do you need me to swear a vow of celibacy against the straits times just to make you happy? would you like me to swear to visit the sdp website more often and drop a few comments there too? i don't mind doing that but i don't think you'll like the comments.
For one who is interested in finding faults, I am amazed that you only look for the petty ones from CSJ, but will not even highlight the more glaring issues that the PAP has - perhaps you have no opinions at all as you are no better then a PAP carpet beggar ?
i believe i have highlighted pap's faults,posting ratio's at least 5:1 compared to csj in fact i do it often in overseas forums but thats not what you saw right? no, you're unhappy because i'm talking bad things about csj so because of that i'm a pap carpet beggar.
Delusional ?
That is what you can only hope for every Singaporean who will find fault with the PAP.
i'm sorry i don't agree, i find faults with them often but i don't consider myself delusional. yes i'm singaporean incase you don't know by now so you don't have to assume anything.
Make up your mind - are you asking a question or making a commitment to your position ?
Are you not confirming what has been indicated about your the smugness of your decision to be a fence sitter ?
all right then, if its so hard to read then take away the question marks. those were meant for my tone.
the entire part, especially the ending.
how is this?
If you feel that way, why do you not even dare to form an opinion to state clearly what the PAP has done wrong, instead of nit picking on the mundane issues that is so characteristic of the PAP in degrading and belittling the Opposition Parties.
You have done yourself and Singaporeans a disservice.
Only a hypocritical humbug will accept a smug neutral reply and attempt to be friendly when the obvious honest reaction is a voice of loud protest.
By your own standards in criticising those in Parliament, you are measured as much by your own standards as you dare to measure others with the same.
Can you even know how - or even dare - to say what is on your own mind ?
top half answered. plus i haven't belittled the entire opposition, just one party, one clown and one parliament session(from another party). don't believe me check around. i'm willing to be quite supportive to any opposition parties willing to campaign in my area provided they're willing to put in the effort(except for sdp)
i don't see why the obvious honest reactoin is a voice of loud protest. i believe silence speaks louder than anything else. you're obviously well read enough to know what that means. its a well known saying.
and for someone who calls others hypocritical humbug, supports loud protests yet hides behind a nickname why don't you reveal if you're a sdp member and if so which one are you? or are you another "polite" one?
Anyone who will judge others by the standard of a clown, will best be prepared to be judge by the same standard of measure.
Are you prepared to be measured in the same light ?
Judging from your performance so far, you have not been holding yourself too well - and as much as you believe that CSJ is a clown, at least he is prepared to put his foot where his mouth is - and paid the price without any loss of pride.
Have you the same quality of character ?
Sadly, yours is only that of a careful fence sitter.
i happened to think i'm better than him in terms of character. i've helped people without expecting anything in return, often to the point of being demeritial to myself. i've always told my friends to reconsider any help offered in case they themselves are affected. i've never done anything to cause my family public shame. hell i'm even donating blood regularly nowadays and roping my friends in. no one's ever thought of suing me.
instead shouldn't i be asking what the hell are you thinking comparing that clown to me? i'm certainly of a better quality where character is concern!
hell i'm better even compared to you! sure i do go around posting sacastic remarks in some threads but i definitely don't go around calling people names.being prepared to put one's foot where his mouth is without any loss of pride doesn't make him him any less of a clown.
Again, this conclusion is your own opinion based on your preferred way of interpreting issues that you have no principles to stand on.
It again reflects what has been said about you in my previous response.
The essence of what HZ had written from Page 2 to Page 4 is clear, his views and attitude has not been misconstrued, and I had tackled each one precisely that he prefer to drop them without any rebuttal - as they were based on false premise.
Your position taken with your skewed interpretation is similarly based on your own false readings that lead you to your preferred skewed conclusions, and you prefer to continue with your smug arguments based on your self-indulging exercise at some pseudo-intellectual arguments.
so far you're the one using obscure words and nit picking on my words rather then the meaning and i'm the one being accused of self indulging exercise at some pseudo intellectual argument?
Will you dare to put your arguments on pure simple principles - whether on political or personal issues - instead of being a fence sitter, and criticise those with an opinion when you have none to begin with ?
on opposition parties: since i've only mainly critised csj and sdp so far i'm not sure why you think i don't have a stand and opinion of my own?
or is it because i don't agree with your stand you're trying to descredit me this way? isn't this familar? like what someone you were mentioning doing the same thing to csj?
There are alot of nit pickings to take find faults with to tarnish the image of anyone, but do you know how to take on the major issues ?
have any major issues that would affect my life directly being raised?
no not really.
I am surprised that you will find so many faults with the SDP website, but yet have not even commented on a major issue that SDP or CSJ had brought up that is so relevant to the present political and financial events :
relevant? major? from who's position?
politics: i'm just a commoner. its unlikely in foreseeable future for me to become a candidate. plus i'm not suitable being poorly educated. hardly a poster boy. i can't imagine going around screaming at other people about missing money either.i'm unlikely to ever be in a position powerful to hold anyone accountable. all thats left is for me to decide who gets my vote and i can tell you its definitely not sdp. But its pretty much a walkover here all the time so truth to be said politics don't feel relevant in my life.
financial events: big events? look if big financial events really means anything i wouldn't be wasting time posting in a forum. do you happen to know anyone important in the financial world who actually posts here because i honestly don't. anyone i know personally who actually touches amounts of money i can't even imagine regularly don't waste time here. i'm supportive of anyone who can create jobs to stop the exploiting of singaporean workers i've seen so far and i'm not talking about your average white collars. and creating an enviroment easy enough for one to start his own business. and i really can't link these things to sdp. not that the sdp haven't talked about these issues but their actions don't match the talk.
Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 2
how? he's not 18, he's 80++ he's going to die and still his head is clearer then csj's
you're not more powerful than him, the people don't support you, the courts apparently don't like you sending you to jail so many times. really, is there a point in this? or its just talking to let the balls song only? if sdp retained their seat and they're talking in the parliaments now i might reconsider my position but this?
In you own smugness, are you not displaying a dishonest part of yourself ?
which dishonest part? which part are you assuming is dishonest? or is there something you know about me that even i don't know?
as for smugness, how can the word be used on someone as unworthy as me when you have someone who thinks only his path is correct and is willing to put his mouth in his foot to proof it.
Since when have you said anything about my inability to accept any facts ?
can't see that here maybe he means another thread?
Is political stability what Singaporeans want now, or is the need to resolve their financial situation the first thing on their minds ?
With GIC and Temasek losing $100 BILLION in some NON-Transparent ways - can Singapore expect any economic or financial stability, or are we to prepare ourselves for speculative attacks that will destabilise our Singapore Dollar ?
Can any political party win any election that is controlled by the PAP - when they control the ways the legislations are drafted and passed into laws, the electoral boundaries manipulated, the print and broadcast media being monopolised, the Civil Service mobilised to support the PAP machinery, and the entire Singapore population placed in a state of close-watched seige ?
Only a chimpanzee overfed with bananas will soon sing the song of the gorillas.
how about both? if singaporeans are willing to sacrifice political stability the opposition would have already won more seats.
and think about this from another angle, if the pap has to manipulate electoral boundaries, monopolise the print,broadcast media and the Civil Service to support the PAP machinery it means they're not that powerful yet. which itself is another interesting question. if they're so horrible, and he's been called a despot so often to have people really thinking he's one why the extra action?
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Ow, can't believe you're actually keeping up with em.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Ow, can't believe you're actually keeping up with em.
eh......
