Originally posted by Cram:Hi xtreiyer
As for "practical solutions," here are just a few ideas; feel free to trash them if you think they aren't practical:
Scrap GST for a year.
Shut down all ERP gantries for a year.
Reduce tuition fees in universities for citizens and increase fees for foreigners by same proportion.
Allow partial encashing of CPF monies by individuals.
Boost Singapore's status as a medicare hub. After all, it's one of the fe sectors practically recession-proof.
You mean foreigners are not already paying a higher tuition fee ?
I agree to medicare hub ... But taking Ireland as a example ... its more famous for medical field but they are a very bad shape now ...
Originally posted by xtreyier:
The competition is even keener now, but the good news is, majority of overseas companies, espacially US and European ones, had over extended themselves on loans and have to either scale back or shut down - meaning the field of competition is clear for us Singaporeans to muscle in!
??? Most of the huge projects are to be financed by banks , so with their banks not lending .. Singapore will not be able to take part in the projects ...
EG . I will expect the rig building business to be very much affected , which is true since there are orders pulled back and delivery rescheduled by request of customers due to lack of cashflow , loans etc.
Which field do you think we have such an advantage for singapore to muscle in ?
Originally posted by lotus999:if i don’t remember wrongly, the almighty had in the early part of the u.s. recession said that singapore would not be affected by it.
YOu are right. That was few months ago his highness said that. Sometime last year he also mentioned that Singapore is in golden period. His senility is affecting his forecast, ha ha ha. This is a sign of . . . . .
Originally posted by xtreyier:The choice of 'Chip' Goodyear as Temasek's CEO is a fantastic coup! He is a 'resource' man and understand the resource biz in and out like no other! With him at the helm, our reserves will most certainly grow!
In this crisis, trillions of dollars will be spent on infrastructure building. The last time it happened was after WWII. Billions were spent, jobs were created and economic booms resounded for years.
But right now, most of those infrastructures are near crumbling ruins. A right time for nations to invest and create jobs for these purposes. Even China, India, Middle East states, Iraq and Afghanistan needs to upgrade theirs.
Which means - resources required! Steel, aluminium, copper, sand, etc, etc, are needed. Our planet have not run out of it yet. Do remember, for the past 6000 years of recorded history, we only used less than 30% of Earth's underground resources, for 70% of Earth's land lies underwater. We now have the technology to go underwater if need be to get resources that lay beneath the sea.
So, who is better than Chip to lead our biz teams to grab a slice of the resource investment and market?
Any fears for the future now?
PS1:-Just don't rely too much on the stock market for information or 'investments'. It is nothing more than a ponzi trap set up by hedgefunds to recoup their losses. The indices are NOT true indicators of a company's health.
For true investments, one will have to follow the particular invested company's loan exposures, committments, sales and purchases, and every single detail closely and monitor intelligently.
Companies react differently to events and not some 'one size fits all' that stockbrokers and others love to propergate for their scams.
PS2:- Many worry about the environment, global warming and climate change. Please tell me since civilisation began which century had not experienced global warming, climate change, droughts, floods, earthquakes, etc, etc?
Truth is, such natural events had with us all the time. Humans are adaptable beings. Our ancestors adapted and fared none the worse. So could we.
By all means, save the environment. Cut down on fossilized fuels usage. Save our resources. BUT within reason. Let no child be deprive of the opportunity to grow in peace and prosperity, and not just because some nutcase environmentalist tree hugger wants to save a few trees at the expense of mankind's progress and evolution.
PS3:- What i had written are retrived from raw data, analyzed and presented in my way. By no means are the concepts i proposed new or came from me alone. So, there is no need for derogatory labels on me. I am only a nobody anyway.
What i can think of, i am sure others would have thought of, and even acted upon, or discarded as impractical. I only asked that you consider if what was written makes sense, and find out the truth for yourself.
Only the truth will set you optimistically free to fight for your future, rather than to live in the comfort of pessimistic misery and labelling others as fool, inorder to live a lie.
I feel sad for you, you're the only one defending the PAP in this thread. I've long ago gave up trying to argue........ Maybe Texera and Stevenson101 can help you out
It is not only in this thread and sgforums many are speaking the truth and reality, there are more in other forums. what are posted here are mild compared to other forums.
The truth is relative, you claim you're speaking the truth, hell so does Osama Bin Laden
Originally posted by Chris88110:The truth is relative, you claim you're speaking the truth, hell so does Osama Bin Laden
you can go on to find fault. Truth is truth. Not happy here then go PAP website so that you can sing song, talk cock to carry the PAP.
I never said i was finding fault, i was merely expressing my opinions as you do
Originally posted by Chris88110:
I feel sad for you, you're the only one defending the PAP in this thread. I've long ago gave up trying to argue........ Maybe Texera and Stevenson101 can help you out
Eh don't say like i'm PAP defender like that, there are issues i agree with and some that i don't.
Some problems are universal and some are caused by bad policies, i don't deny that.
I just point out the more universal problems because it's just a bad habit for a progressing society to blame everything on the PAP and not spend time researching about the real root causes.
Sooner or later LKY will die and the PAP will fail. That's just how history has always worked. It is important for Singaporeans to be able to think more deeply about problems, or we risk replacing the PAP with something worse the moment they fail.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:Eh don't say like i'm PAP defender like that, there are issues i agree with and some that i don't.
Some problems are universal and some are caused by bad policies, i don't deny that.
I just point out the more universal problems because it's just a bad habit for a progressing society to blame everything on the PAP and not spend time researching about the real root causes.
Sooner or later LKY will die and the PAP will fail. That's just how history has always worked. It is important for Singaporeans to be able to think more deeply about problems, or we risk replacing the PAP with something worse the moment they fail.
I don't think PAP will fall. LKY said before they he has prepared his team well to be able to go on without him. Believe by now LKY has already passed on some of the stuff to the team.
Originally posted by Fantagf:I don't think PAP will fall. LKY said before they he has prepared his team well to be able to go on without him. Believe by now LKY has already passed on some of the stuff to the team.
Chey, nothing lasts forever. The PAP has been around for what? 5 decades? That's hardly an accomplishment by any measure of history.
Singapore has to be managed like a corporation, because it has nothing to fall back on other than accumulated wealth.
There are no mines, plantations, farms, from which to harvest wealth.
Singapore cannot run on empty. The government cannot go into deficit like other countries can.
Therefore, like it or not, we will always be thinking Money, Money, Money.
What can Singapore mine, other than human labour. And humans needs to be managed skillfully. When the human masses are mismanaged, it drains wealth, instead of creating wealth.
Money money money, must be funny, but thats way to go.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:Chey, nothing lasts forever. The PAP has been around for what? 5 decades? That's hardly an accomplishment by any measure of history.
Not easy to get rid of them though it is possible. All I want is a ruling party that places serving public as the top priority.
We know they are getting worst. I used to respect LKY in the past, but not any more.
Dear xtreiyer
Thanks for your comments. While I am losing my keenness to debate with you, I must address some of the points you have raised, if only for the sake of stopping your mis-information from spreading.
My solutions are not self-centred at all, because they make life easier for the common man. As far as depletion of reserves is concerned, surely my solutions won't dent Singapore's wealth any more than Temasek's disastrous investments have already.
"This crisis is biz related. A biz exist to make profits, from sales' orders. This would be how they would earn money to hire people and pay them from parts of the profits earned."
Biz doesn't operate in a vacuum. It cannot and should not function independent of society, government and law. Which is why I disagree with your contention that govt shouldn't intervene in corporate affairs. Of course, I also believe govt intervention should be kept to a minimum in order to let companies flourish.
"While everyone is lamenting and wailing about the crisis, take a good look at the shopping malls - are they totally devoid of customers? Take a good look at our harbour - is it empty of ships? Take a good look at Changi airport - are there no tourists? Take a good look at our factories - have they ALL shut down?"
That's the biggest lie people like you are spreading. Shipping, one of Singapore's lifelines, is in deep, deep trouble. The sector will likely get hammered even more in the coming months, as global trade grinds to a snail's pace.
There is no shortage of crowds at Mustafa or Orchard, but that alone is not an indicator of a healthy economy. People will always shop because they need to survive. However, what CAN be considered an indicator is how many shops/pubs/stores have shut down. The govt is doing the right thing by making it even more easier for people to do business here, but it remains to be seen to what extent it is successful.
Factories? Man, you have no idea what's going on! Many chip companies are slashing production and capacity utilization. Manufacturing will find it very difficult to stay afloat as global demand keeps falling.
And if you read the papers today, you can see tourism is expected to fall this year. From today's Channelnewsasia: "Singapore expects visitor arrivals to drop as much as 11 per cent this year as the global recession curtails consumer spending and holiday plans. Mr Iswaran said 2009 will be a difficult year for the global tourism industry and that tourist arrivals may fall to between 9 and 9-and-a-half million this year. Tourist arrivals fell 1.6 per cent to 10.1 million last year. Total tourism receipts generated are also expected to fall to a range of S$12b to S$12.5b this year, down from S$14.8b in 2008."
That's almost $3 b in reduced income!
Open you eyes, man! You think I am a pessimist but I'd like to see myself as a realist. There's no point pretending we are not in trouble, and that the "spirit of Singapore" will overcome everything. Look at what's happening around in the world and how it is affecting us or will affect us. The government does realize all is not well and has taken some steps: my grouse is that they are not going further, due to this strange fear of "welfare".
i think what singaporeans need now is not motivational speech but steps and action taken by various singapore authority to address the issues.
1. as the ministers has said, this is no ordinary crisis. We should put singaporeans in priorty in jobs that singaporeans want to do and can do it.
2. experience is something when given opportunity to perform can accumulate. FT come to singapore gain more experience and will leave for another greener pasture. In this case, does ordinary singaporeans really benefitted? or does it benefitted govt tax coffers?
xtreyier my friend, i dont understand why u need to cheer for a foreigner to be temasek CEO. the last top foreigner incharge of a singapore bank, retrench over 450local employees when the banks are still making profits, yes profits not lost. your logic to support goodyear as CEO just wana make me laugh. he is just lucky man, he was at helm of BHP at time when the china and rest of the world are growing due to excess of credit in the market. If singapore wana developed movie industry next time, maybe we need Steven spieldburg to run temasek, GIC, EDB?
Originally posted by Cram:Dear xtreiyer
Thanks for your comments. While I am losing my keenness to debate with you, I must address some of the points you have raised, if only for the sake of stopping your mis-information from spreading.
My solutions are not self-centred at all, because they make life easier for the common man. As far as depletion of reserves is concerned, surely my solutions won't dent Singapore's wealth any more than Temasek's disastrous investments have already.
"This crisis is biz related. A biz exist to make profits, from sales' orders. This would be how they would earn money to hire people and pay them from parts of the profits earned."
Biz doesn't operate in a vacuum. It cannot and should not function independent of society, government and law. Which is why I disagree with your contention that govt shouldn't intervene in corporate affairs. Of course, I also believe govt intervention should be kept to a minimum in order to let companies flourish.
"While everyone is lamenting and wailing about the crisis, take a good look at the shopping malls - are they totally devoid of customers? Take a good look at our harbour - is it empty of ships? Take a good look at Changi airport - are there no tourists? Take a good look at our factories - have they ALL shut down?"
That's the biggest lie people like you are spreading. Shipping, one of Singapore's lifelines, is in deep, deep trouble. The sector will likely get hammered even more in the coming months, as global trade grinds to a snail's pace.
There is no shortage of crowds at Mustafa or Orchard, but that alone is not an indicator of a healthy economy. People will always shop because they need to survive. However, what CAN be considered an indicator is how many shops/pubs/stores have shut down. The govt is doing the right thing by making it even more easier for people to do business here, but it remains to be seen to what extent it is successful.
Factories? Man, you have no idea what's going on! Many chip companies are slashing production and capacity utilization. Manufacturing will find it very difficult to stay afloat as global demand keeps falling.
And if you read the papers today, you can see tourism is expected to fall this year. From today's Channelnewsasia: "Singapore expects visitor arrivals to drop as much as 11 per cent this year as the global recession curtails consumer spending and holiday plans. Mr Iswaran said 2009 will be a difficult year for the global tourism industry and that tourist arrivals may fall to between 9 and 9-and-a-half million this year. Tourist arrivals fell 1.6 per cent to 10.1 million last year. Total tourism receipts generated are also expected to fall to a range of S$12b to S$12.5b this year, down from S$14.8b in 2008."
That's almost $3 b in reduced income!
Open you eyes, man! You think I am a pessimist but I'd like to see myself as a realist. There's no point pretending we are not in trouble, and that the "spirit of Singapore" will overcome everything. Look at what's happening around in the world and how it is affecting us or will affect us. The government does realize all is not well and has taken some steps: my grouse is that they are not going further, due to this strange fear of "welfare".
Do you need to speak with a 'forked tongue'?
"Losing my keeness to debate with you" and yet you still debate on? and many more other instances of your double speak of which i shall not list to embarass you any further, to keep your youthful naive pride intact.
Misinformation? Since when did i not acknowledge we are in trouble?
The only difference between you and me is that i call for action whereelse you choose to rely on numbers as an excuse to beg!
There is more to biz than just numbers, economists and accounts often makes in processing and analyzing data. If numbers can be relied on, then this financial crisis would have been long averted. The human element is a number you cannot scientifically figure in ANY calculations.
It is far too complex that even E8 theory many not fully diagnose it. Vietnam was a war that McNamara tried to run mathematically based on attrition rate. So much for his theory, and ended up americans being kick off vietnamese roofs and out of the country.
So too, you, a self proclaimed 'realist' is doing the same. This is a crisis, the human element is the solution, not numbers you hold to so much. There is only so much the govt can do, and when our reserves are depleted, you and i will have to start begging.
PS. I am not from the ruling party. My views are my own and am fully responsible. I am only a private citizen offering my insight on free will basis. I will not mislead anyone to presume i am from there or the opposition camp. They have better and more capable officers than i can ever be.
Originally posted by reyes:i think what singaporeans need now is not motivational speech but steps and action taken by various singapore authority to address the issues.
1. as the ministers has said, this is no ordinary crisis. We should put singaporeans in priorty in jobs that singaporeans want to do and can do it.
2. experience is something when given opportunity to perform can accumulate. FT come to singapore gain more experience and will leave for another greener pasture. In this case, does ordinary singaporeans really benefitted? or does it benefitted govt tax coffers?
xtreyier my friend, i dont understand why u need to cheer for a foreigner to be temasek CEO. the last top foreigner incharge of a singapore bank, retrench over 450local employees when the banks are still making profits, yes profits not lost. your logic to support goodyear as CEO just wana make me laugh. he is just lucky man, he was at helm of BHP at time when the china and rest of the world are growing due to excess of credit in the market. If singapore wana developed movie industry next time, maybe we need Steven spieldburg to run temasek, GIC, EDB?
BUddy Reyes, since when did i give any motivational speech???!! Do i not speak the truth and facts? I aint no Mark Anthony, that's for sure!
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Not easy to get rid of them though it is possible. All I want is a ruling party that places serving public as the top priority.We know they are getting worst. I used to respect LKY in the past, but not any more.
This is the point where i disagree with you.
I want a peaceful transition, no matter how you cut it the PAP still has more experience in managing Singapore and is still going to get things done faster and better than a newbie opposition. There would still be idiots in the PAP but considering the sort of education they went through they can't possibly all be incompetents.
It's not about them being better or smarter, it's just that they've been doing it more and already have a more or less effective workflow to identify and handle problems.
If the opposition suddenly wins by a landslide they would suddenly have all the power but no idea how things should be done. Then the scenario of LKY/LHL using the military to "save us" would have a valid reason. In the end, all the people get is absolutely nothing but a brief sense of satisfied spite.
Yes, some of them say really stupid things and should be get rid of. But i do not believe the whole of PAP is staffed by idiots and adopting the view that anyone is going to perform better than them is a recipe of disaster for us as a country.
Thus it becomes our job as citizens to scrutinize the Opposition and ensure they truly understand the responsibility at hand. Being able to make a good speech and saying things we like to hear should not be the only deciding factors.
A ruling party that places serving the public as the top piority is to me at most a pipe dream, something nice to put in a speech but do not accurately describe the true reality of its meaning. The whole idea of expecting the government to assume all responsibility but constantly deny it power to make the neccessary changes is a contradiction to me.
Is not the richest 1% considered the public as well? How about the loudest that calls traitors of the others that do not agree? This is not a imaginary scenario, America has already demonstrate the problems of a democractic electorate that wants the rights of freedom to consume more but ignores the responsibility of being the citizen of a democractic country.
I respect LKY in the sense that he recognises the flaws of humans. He rather have a system that assumes everyone is dishonest than one that assumes all are honest but immediately abused by the dishonest. I merely disagree with him on his method of deciding who is the talent and who isn't but can understand why he has to do it as such.
Corruption? I far prefer an alpha taking more than his proper share than have to deal with pack of wolves fighting over everything and getting nothing done. The whole idea of power is to gain more of it to stay in power, that is the nature of politics i do not see how different it could be under a multi party democracy.
This is my view of it at least.
"Do you need to speak with a 'forked tongue'? "Losing my keeness to debate with you" and yet you still debate on? and many more other instances of your double speak of which i shall not list to embarass you any further, to keep your youthful naive pride intact."
WTF? I stated very clearly my response was only to stop your misinformation from spreading. And you call that doublespeak. Do you even know what doublespeak means? You are the one engaging in doublespeak. You make bullshit arguments and when I call bullshit on them you start talking cock instead of refuting the points I raise.
"Misinformation? Since when did i not acknowledge we are in trouble?:"
That's not the misinformation I was referring to, genius. You stated very clearly that you think retail, shipping, and tourism are all in good health. That's misinformation - perhaps I should have just said you were lying, instead of using words like misinformation.
"The only difference between you and me is that i call for action whereelse you choose to rely on numbers as an excuse to beg!"
Bullshit! What action are you calling for? What are your practical solutions, apart from the usual crap about attracting MNCs and cheap foreign talent? And how the hell did begging come into the picture? I never talked about handouts or doles, though I think they would be justified for the poorest.
Look at this: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/301480.asp
This is just the kind of stuff I've been advocating.
Do you agree with such measures? If not, why not? What other ideas do you have? Instead of giving motivational speeches, why don't tell us all what your super plan is for Singapore?
''So too, you, a self proclaimed 'realist' is doing the same. This is a crisis, the human element is the solution, not numbers you hold to so much. There is only so much the govt can do, and when our reserves are depleted, you and i will have to start begging.''
I keep my eyes open, I know what's going on in the real world...I think that qualifies me as a realist.
I agree there is only so much the govt can do, but this govt has not done the maximum it can. That's my point. I think govt can and must do a lot more. The reserves are meant for the people...in times of crisis the govt should dip into them and support the people. And the govt can very easily ease the burden on the people by relief measures like scrapping GST and ERP, or offering educational loan relief.
Now, let us hear from you!
actually the title of the article should be :
instead. Ha ha ha!
Originally posted by Cram:"Do you need to speak with a 'forked tongue'? "Losing my keeness to debate with you" and yet you still debate on? and many more other instances of your double speak of which i shall not list to embarass you any further, to keep your youthful naive pride intact."
WTF? I stated very clearly my response was only to stop your misinformation from spreading. And you call that doublespeak. Do you even know what doublespeak means? You are the one engaging in doublespeak. You make bullshit arguments and when I call bullshit on them you start talking cock instead of refuting the points I raise.
"Misinformation? Since when did i not acknowledge we are in trouble?:"
That's not the misinformation I was referring to, genius. You stated very clearly that you think retail, shipping, and tourism are all in good health. That's misinformation - perhaps I should have just said you were lying, instead of using words like misinformation.
"The only difference between you and me is that i call for action whereelse you choose to rely on numbers as an excuse to beg!"
Bullshit! What action are you calling for? What are your practical solutions, apart from the usual crap about attracting MNCs and cheap foreign talent? And how the hell did begging come into the picture? I never talked about handouts or doles, though I think they would be justified for the poorest.
Look at this: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/301480.asp
This is just the kind of stuff I've been advocating.
Do you agree with such measures? If not, why not? What other ideas do you have? Instead of giving motivational speeches, why don't tell us all what your super plan is for Singapore?
''So too, you, a self proclaimed 'realist' is doing the same. This is a crisis, the human element is the solution, not numbers you hold to so much. There is only so much the govt can do, and when our reserves are depleted, you and i will have to start begging.''
I keep my eyes open, I know what's going on in the real world...I think that qualifies me as a realist.
I agree there is only so much the govt can do, but this govt has not done the maximum it can. That's my point. I think govt can and must do a lot more. The reserves are meant for the people...in times of crisis the govt should dip into them and support the people. And the govt can very easily ease the burden on the people by relief measures like scrapping GST and ERP, or offering educational loan relief.
Now, let us hear from you!
Eh, can you organise your post a little better using quotes? Having a hard time seperating your posts and the quotes.
Originally posted by Cram:"Do you need to speak with a 'forked tongue'? "Losing my keeness to debate with you" and yet you still debate on? and many more other instances of your double speak of which i shall not list to embarass you any further, to keep your youthful naive pride intact."
WTF? I stated very clearly my response was only to stop your misinformation from spreading. And you call that doublespeak. Do you even know what doublespeak means? You are the one engaging in doublespeak. You make bullshit arguments and when I call bullshit on them you start talking cock instead of refuting the points I raise.
"Misinformation? Since when did i not acknowledge we are in trouble?:"
That's not the misinformation I was referring to, genius. You stated very clearly that you think retail, shipping, and tourism are all in good health. That's misinformation - perhaps I should have just said you were lying, instead of using words like misinformation.
"The only difference between you and me is that i call for action whereelse you choose to rely on numbers as an excuse to beg!"
Bullshit! What action are you calling for? What are your practical solutions, apart from the usual crap about attracting MNCs and cheap foreign talent? And how the hell did begging come into the picture? I never talked about handouts or doles, though I think they would be justified for the poorest.
Look at this: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/301480.asp
This is just the kind of stuff I've been advocating.
Do you agree with such measures? If not, why not? What other ideas do you have? Instead of giving motivational speeches, why don't tell us all what your super plan is for Singapore?
''So too, you, a self proclaimed 'realist' is doing the same. This is a crisis, the human element is the solution, not numbers you hold to so much. There is only so much the govt can do, and when our reserves are depleted, you and i will have to start begging.''
I keep my eyes open, I know what's going on in the real world...I think that qualifies me as a realist.
I agree there is only so much the govt can do, but this govt has not done the maximum it can. That's my point. I think govt can and must do a lot more. The reserves are meant for the people...in times of crisis the govt should dip into them and support the people. And the govt can very easily ease the burden on the people by relief measures like scrapping GST and ERP, or offering educational loan relief.
Now, let us hear from you!
Calling my request for citizens to go look at our habour if it is devoid of ships is considered 'misinformation'? And you dare deludedly self proclaim yourself a 'realist'?!! You may fool yourself but please, singapore citizens are not fools.
Just on this issue alone disallows me to conduct a respectful discourse with you. I find it hard to respond to your twisting and squirming of issues. Thereore i must apologise and walk away from further debate. You need to go to school, not a debate.
But I am a generous person. Tell you what. You had your say, i had mine. 3 mths later, you or i will dig up this thread and prove who was right or wrong. Let it stand the test of time. If my call for affirmative action was accepted but did not worked, i will gladly accept the condemnation of all here the way Ho Ching had been condemned.
But if your reading of events are wrong, I would not ask the same be done to you. I only ask that you have a more open mind, look towards a bigger picture of our society as a whole, drop your self-centredness, and consider for your fellow citizens, as we citizens are all honour bound to do so.
xtreyier
You are the one guilty of everything you accuse me of. Where have I twisted and "squirmed" issues? You are the one who refuses to recognise the reality, the one who keeps talking bullshit without focusing on actual issues, the problems at hand and how they can be solved. I offer solutions that are aimed at the greatest good of the greatest number, and you dare call me self-centred! I give up.
Anyway, right and wrong don't matter here. What matters is how Singapore will tide over the crisis and how soon.