PB is it time to act?
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with the signing of the special agreement signed and sealed...
isit time to act against the malaysian intrusion??
we have beared with their bullshit all this time...
perhaps its now time to really assert our sovereign status over PB...
the malaysians are obviously trying to out-manouver us by claimming that they are there first... and that it is we that is contesting their claim.... over PB...
As such... the only way to prove the ICJ that it is us that is really in control... i think its time we do some serious serious consideration on how to sink a few RMN ships...
otherwise... even if singapore claim to have exerted authority over the PB island.. the malaysian would claim that their RMN ships are patrolling around the island AND the RSN did not take strong measures to challenge their patrol around PB... thus conceding authority to malaysia OR failed to exercise absolute sovereign authority over PB as claim by singapore...
looks like... we really have no choice liow...
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What action do you have in mind ?
Let the shells fly from the Oto Melara guns that we have on board our RSN Boats, or just let off a whole belt of live lead from the Heavy or Medium Machine Guns only ?
When they respond with gunfire, do we let fly our Gabriel or Harpoon Missiles ?
What next, after the first shots are fired ?
Malaysia will probably blockade the Malacca Straits, and the wide expanse of sea between East and West Malaysia, under the pretext of prevent shipping of weapons and materials for war to Singapore.
What shall our response be then ?
Declare that what Malaysia has done is an Act of War against Singapore, and justify our actions to force the sea lanes to be opened and kept free from all encumbarances by Malaysia; and at the same time, move out our SAF into Malaysian Territory ?
The above will probably be the step-by-step progression to open confrontation, when all good sense do not prevail.
Have you considered the confidence level that will be lost when such an incident breaks out, and investors pull out ? -
War is never a good option for Singapore or Malaysia.
Singapore and Malaysia should not fight war for Pedra Branca like the stupid 100-Year War fought between Britain and France for a mere bucket.
1) Both our economies are still recovering, I don't think they got that kind of money to spend on a military budget unlike us . We just want better qualities of life. Singapore only spend money on military budget to make professional military jobs for Singaporeans.
2) Singapore will not spend unneccessary money reserves to fight war with countries which doesn't deserve us to fight. It's Malaysia, our "next door neighbour".
3) If ever Singapore fights with Malaysia, there could be a civil war in Malaysia. Their social and political stabilities are not as stable as you think. Though Malaysia is a multi-racial nation, their races are never truly integrated. Many political observers said this so. It would affect us.
(That's why Dr. Mahatir is said, by many political observers, that he failed to integrate Malaysian races together for better economic growth.
Their races are "allied", not "merged".
Remember when Dr. Mahatir tried to implement English language as their education system's medium. All their races complained. All races in Malaysia are only thinking for themselves.
For example, I once heard MCA speech played in a cassette tape. They complaining that why the Chinese are studying 3 languages in school, namely, English, Malay and Chinese. While Malays only studied only Malay and English, only 2 languages. Then, the MCA said Chinese in Singapore has lost some of its essence in the Chinese culture because of English as our education medium.
[From my point of view, I think the Malaysian-Chinese wanted Chinese to be their education medium.]
See where their races are going?
)
As for the intrusions, both Singapore and Malaysia have their own stand and will stick to it. If fighting ever broke out, we will never know who's to blame. To be objective, I think this issue has to be settle by ICJ immediately
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1) Both our economies are still recovering, I don't think they got that kind of money to spend on a military budget unlike us . We just want better qualities of life. Singapore only spend money on military budget to make professional military jobs for Singaporeans.
Very true , we cant afford war at this point of time. However the fact is we have the financial capacity to fight a war and recover , dun worry abt that. If we need to , we will do it. NS is not a profession in singapore , and with a large military budget , we can see how much the government emphasies on our defense.
2[b]) Singapore will not spend unneccessary money reserves to fight war with countries which doesn't deserve us to fight. It's Malaysia, our "next door neighbour". [/b]
I disagree that malaysia doesnt deserve us to fight. If u will like that , then must as well say singapore is not worth defending. If they will to consistently intrude into our water , then we must show them whos the boss. Malaysia had been on our neck since independence.However for some reasons , they choose a more sensitive issue this time round.
Imagine if we will to say that PB is not worth defending from our neighbour , then i can forsee other intrusion into our water without giving a damm on wat we think. They will then try to say Singapore belong to them , and rejecting the claim is another unneighbourly act . Then to this extent , is defending us from our neighbours neccessary? -
i am sorry chap.... but i put my country before my job...Originally posted by Atobe:What action do you have in mind ?
Let the shells fly from the Oto Melara guns that we have on board our RSN Boats, or just let off a whole belt of live lead from the Heavy or Medium Machine Guns only ?
When they respond with gunfire, do we let fly our Gabriel or Harpoon Missiles ?
What next, after the first shots are fired ?
Malaysia will probably blockade the Malacca Straits, and the wide expanse of sea between East and West Malaysia, under the pretext of prevent shipping of weapons and materials for war to Singapore.
What shall our response be then ?
Declare that what Malaysia has done is an Act of War against Singapore, and justify our actions to force the sea lanes to be opened and kept free from all encumbarances by Malaysia; and at the same time, move out our SAF into Malaysian Territory ?
The above will probably be the step-by-step progression to open confrontation, when all good sense do not prevail.
Have you considered the confidence level that will be lost when such an incident breaks out, and investors pull out ?
and in the event of a war... i think economic recovery is the last thing on my mind....
lastly.... wat if they are the one who decided to shoot at us?? you gonna hide in your toilet and start learning how to eat toilet bowl as the investors run away....
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Originally posted by Eiizumi:
[b]War is never a good option for Singapore or Malaysia.
Singapore and Malaysia should not fight war for Pedra Branca like the stupid 100-Year War fought between Britain and France for a mere bucket.
well... i can assure you ... any war between singapore and malaysia will last less then 100 days... so... you can forget about a 100 year old war.... wait long long....
1) Both our economies are still recovering, I don't think they got that kind of money to spend on a military budget unlike us . We just want better qualities of life. Singapore only spend money on military budget to make professional military jobs for Singaporeans. the question is not about money, economic recovery, qualities of life or watever shit shit.... its about our right to live the lifes that we want... get it?
2) Singapore will not spend unneccessary money reserves to fight war with countries which doesn't deserve us to fight. It's Malaysia, our "next door neighbour". simi neighbour?? oh yah... the bully next door... too bad american didnt go and bomb them.... will save us tons of trouble....
3) If ever Singapore fights with Malaysia, there could be a civil war in Malaysia. Their social and political stabilities are not as stable as you think. Though Malaysia is a multi-racial nation, their races are never truly integrated. Many political observers said this so. It would affect us. well... i wouldnt know about that... but... i believe... in times of crisis... the ugly side of human tends to surface... i wont even be surprise if mahatir might wish to work for us... once we take over malaysia...
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wah... u very optimistic lor...
me and Atobe were just having a long discussion the other day about what a TERRIBLE idea this is...
what i think is, push comes to shove, we take a stand... but we need not go out of our way to be belligerent or provoke it needlessly because u know what they say about the clowns up north...
its all hot air... thats why clowns give out balloons -
Thanks CX....
I won't reply to Tripwire's comments.
Meanwhile I will sit on the toilet, and enjoy the "Lords of the Rings", and wait for some Malaysian to "trip over his wire" and then i will report to my unit. -
I don't think we should fire the opening shots in any war, especially if it still can be settled through diplomatic means. however, tripwire isn't totally wrong also, perhaps stronger measures could be taken, for example, letting RSN or Coast Guard vessels, meet incoming RMN ships and escort them back out again. another option would be to get some fighters to 'boom' their intruding ships on full afterburner where possible. I doubt M'sia will fire a shot on such an occasion. Especially after both sides already sign an agreement to refer the thing to ICJ, won't reflect well on them.
aND CX I like ur point about clown givign out balloons, haha -
That's why Singapore is showing restrain, we refuse to engage in their petty game of invasion and counter invasion, instead telling them to back off and not push the line. If anything, if Singapore really does open fire, it will not be a tit-for-tat increase in firepower but probably an all out, everything thing goes chinese new year thw way it was supposed to be last time display of firepower aimed at all their vital parts... after all fighting a war of increasing steps will disadvantage us as we are a lot smaller and cannot afford to take a lot of protracted tiny pin pricks of incidents, rather we bow them over with a haymaker opening move.
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Wanted to refrain from commenting but "Ta Bu Lek Ta Han" Another lump of bullshit discussions on war, which will never happen, try something else.
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eh.... did anybody point a gun to your head to make u post in this "lame" forum?Originally posted by Quad:Wanted to refrain from commenting but "Ta Bu Lek Ta Han" Another lump of bullshit discussions on war, which will never happen, try something else.
u may not agree, but at least leave people alone to conduct their own discussion. -
Originally posted by foxtrout8:
What I meant is that they are weak...
2) Singapore will not spend unneccessary money reserves to fight war with countries which doesn't deserve us to fight. It's Malaysia, our "next door neighbour".
I disagree that malaysia doesnt deserve us to fight. If u will like that , then must as well say singapore is not worth defending. If they will to consistently intrude into our water , then we must show them whos the boss. -
Originally posted by tripwire:
Ha! You have all mistaken! There are actually "quotes" of sacarsm in my forum.
blah... blah... blah...
Don't be so extremist lah!
You macham like a J.I. member you know... Start war so easily... That's what the terrorists wanted, do you know that?
DISCLAIMER: All those war thingy I said was all but a craps of jokes with no sense lah!
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That's a good chance SingaporeTyrannosaur and I discovered it out to invade Johor if they ever have a civil war on the excuse that we conquer Johor to be our buffer state to make sure Malaysia's civil war does not affect us!Originally posted by tripwire:3) If ever Singapore fights with Malaysia, there could be a civil war in Malaysia. Their social and political stabilities are not as stable as you think. Though Malaysia is a multi-racial nation, their races are never truly integrated. Many political observers said this so. It would affect us.
well... i wouldnt know about that... but... i believe... in times of crisis... the ugly side of human tends to surface... i wont even be surprise if mahatir might wish to work for us... once we take over malaysia... -
U must be careful in choosing ur words or else pple will misunderstand u......Originally posted by Eiizumi:What I meant is that they are weak... -
den stay out of here. . . u maintain a rather optimistic viewpoint of the world at large. . . ever found out the meaning of the word 'forum' from a dictionary?Originally posted by Quad:Wanted to refrain from commenting but "Ta Bu Lek Ta Han" Another lump of bullshit discussions on war, which will never happen, try something else. -
Well everybody has a weak point, who don't?Originally posted by foxtrout8:U must be careful in choosing ur words or else pple will misunderstand u...... -
nicely putOriginally posted by CX:its all hot air... thats why clowns give out balloons
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Originally posted by CX:
Ha! Ha! Can't. I'm too entertained to stay away from this "lame" forum. Like to ridicule it as the topic is like building castle in the air in my opinion. As you have said, free speech.
eh.... did anybody point a gun to your head to make u post in this "[b]lame" forum?
u may not agree, but at least leave people alone to conduct their own discussion.
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Eh...are you going againt what you preach? I thought you said something like that last months back..."free sppech?" -
Yep! That's why I gave my opinion, which still hold water and is an undeniable fact, not fiction. May as well discuss, when can Singapore have a clonaid!!!Originally posted by laser51088:den stay out of here. . . u maintain a rather optimistic viewpoint of the world at large. . . ever found out the meaning of the word 'forum' from a dictionary?
More realistic discussion, I say within one week from my post, 85% chance that US-Iraq might erupt. Within two - three days thereafter the war, petrolum price will rise between 8 - 10 cents/litres.
Rather than when and how M is eating S bullet or craps like that!!!! Dream on........ -
A war is as unpredictable as it can be. By stating out the facts, we singaporeans will know more or less our chances in a war with Malaysia. It is not a far-fetched theory. No one expected Japan to attack Manchuria, but they did. What we are trying to do here is to create a sort of "self-awareness" topic on a possible war with Malaysia.
Anyway, War between Iraq And The USA is so highly publicised that the issue of a war within a week of your post is impossible. US going to war will just create a new wide-spread critisism and and maybe possible stale relations with Germany,France,Belgium and China. US won't go to war that fast. -
i do advocate free speech... and i believe what i've said reinforce my belief...Originally posted by Quad:Ha! Ha! Can't. I'm too entertained to stay away from this "lame" forum. Like to ridicule it as the topic is like building castle in the air in my opinion. As you have said, free speech.
Eh...are you going againt what you preach? I thought you said something like that last months back..."free sppech?"
i can't be blamed if your shallow understanding of the term has led u to perceive my remark as an impediment to your freedom to post.
like i said, if u don't agree, state your case constructively.
no point making derogatory statements on the views posted here in this forum. -
then why don't u start a thread to discuss this specifically?Originally posted by Quad:Yep! That's why I gave my opinion, which still hold water and is an undeniable fact, not fiction. May as well discuss, when can Singapore have a clonaid!!!
More realistic discussion, I say within one week from my post, 85% chance that US-Iraq might erupt. Within two - three days thereafter the war, petrolum price will rise between 8 - 10 cents/litres.
Rather than when and how M is eating S bullet or craps like that!!!! Dream on........
besides, the situation in the mid east can go either way now... too many uncertainties...
little wonder that the business community hopes they would just fight a war and get it done and over with... so we can all get on with life with a little more certainty... -
1. Because I rather be a parasite. Cling on to other people threads. No time and no point to start a new topic and disappear for a few days as I'm busy fighting my own "war" and survival.Originally posted by CX:then why don't u start a thread to discuss this specifically?
besides, the situation in the mid east can go either way now... too many uncertainties...
little wonder that the business community hopes they would just fight a war and get it done and over with... so we can all get on with life with a little more certainty...
2. War is imminent, only how soon. My bet is within one week. Look at the amount of reserve forces currently called up in US, Britain and I believe Aust. Can't simply waste tax payers money and de-mob, right? Read BT, lots for major firms jittery due to war proceedings. BTW, West also took high regard on "face value" like the East. When will Bush Jr put his face on the chopping board and if he don't follow thru, see what will happen in the next election. Beside, when there is a war, no presidential can take place, lengthen his stay, good for his 2nd term stay propaganda for a job well done (provide minimal casualty and swift war and put a interium dummy govt, to US advantage....which is definately unilkely). Another improtant point, Bush Jr hometown is Texas, a place where guns rule the street in olden days and they like to have gun fight. Like his father but only finishing up the unfinished business Bush Snr left to him.
3. War is really bad in short term due to innocent casulty. But in business context, it is good in a long run. Principle applies, what goes up must come down. Business will flourish once an unstable state / hard lined bovt is removed and a stable govt is elected, spice up economy. 30 years down the road, new generation will not remember too clearly on this war incidents but like Singapore (previously), busy riding the tide of good economy.
4. I want the war to start fast and end faster (If war is imminent). Otherwise, not only Sg is suffering, 60% of world economy is suffering also. (Excl. China and India). The business operators and consumers are living in a suspense state, no one is committing any deals, how to survuive? This is the time where who have the last laugh, only those who have been frugal and thoughtful will.
Only when once this war business is finish, we can get on with our lives and move on. By then, all undesirable or fly by night companies will be erased off the ROC. Already, thousand of coys in Sg have winded up.
Anyway, for pleasure reading only.