US stimulus: Will it work?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
yup, the obligation includes ALL the money they need to pay for social securities and medisave to be paid in the future. Of course, they don't need to pay now...
Sort of like singapore CPF... If pay out all the CPF, also heavily in debt, but Singapore don't need to pay now...
Seems kind of weird to lump it together that way right? It will be easier to not lump it that way. just look at the situation year by year.for example, last year US deficit is 455 billion... 2009 deficit is whatever... and so on...
that's sort of like telling me i will be spending $12 000 in the next years on food, transport and whatever, while my income is only $1k per month... not exactly saving money, but not exactly like the end of the world too...
Yeah, but considering that that sum is about equal to world GDP, and 4 times the US GDP, do you really think that there is a plausible solution out of this mess, excluding bankruptcy (which the US is)? In addition, with 2 official wars on-going, plus the many unacknowledged US-backed conflicts in Latin America and Africa, there doesn't seem to be any possible solution in sight.
Right now the corporatocracy are just prolonging the crisis in order to benefit all they can, screw the working class as much as possible before bringing the whole house of cards down and destroying the people who actually create the world's wealth.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Yeah, but considering that that sum is about equal to world GDP, and 4 times the US GDP, do you really think that there is a plausible solution out of this mess, excluding bankruptcy (which the US is)? In addition, with 2 official wars on-going, plus the many unacknowledged US-backed conflicts in Latin America and Africa, there doesn't seem to be any possible solution in sight.
Right now the corporatocracy are just prolonging the crisis in order to benefit all they can, screw the working class as much as possible before bringing the whole house of cards down and destroying the people who actually create the world's wealth.
hhmmmm, maybe you stick to 4 times the US GDP... keep things more in prospective. It is as accurate, but and give a better view of (US spending for next few decades) to GDP.
no comment for the rest of your stuff. Maybe someone who cares will come along.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
House and senate diff... that one you need to google.
ehh... the republicans under president bush thought very very differently than they thought under Obama. They were fine in supporting a war that cost 700 billion to destroy and rebuild other countries, being Iraq. now ask them to spend money to rebuild their own country and they hesitate? Are you sure they not playing punk?
as for your worry for early US pull out, the threat is always real, be it under democrat or republican. Somehow, the US citizen voted and made the senate this way, and put their trust in the democrats.... so that's the way it is. I don't know what your point is pointing this out, but the fact remains that there is only 58 democrat senators.
I think you are confused.
There's 2 houses in the US legislative assembly. The upper house is called the "senate", and the lower house, the "house of representatives." Together that makes up the "Congress."
They were fine in supporting a war that cost 700 billion to destroy and rebuild other countries, being Iraq. now ask them to spend money to rebuild their own country and they hesitate? Are you sure they not playing punk?
Thats another entire issue altogether. What I am simply saying is that Republicans, being conservatists, generally do not believe in intervening in the economy and giving out welfare. They condemn protectionism; which is what Obama is trying to do by banning the use of foreign steel. Their differences towards economic policies is the firm divide that causes them vote against the bill. Its not about Iraq or playing punk as you simplistically put.
"Only 58 senators" is just 2 shy of puting a filibuster-proof bill through. That is how much control of the law making process that they have. Now that they've got 2-3 Republican senators on their side for this bill, which was passed in such a gusto, no one is sure whether these moderate Republicans are gonna sway towards the Democrats on future issues, giving them more filibuster-proof bills.
Its like, I plan a 1000-page bill. I introduce them this evening and we vote on it tomorrow morning. How the hell is anyone able to read through all the details of it? If there is anyone playing punk, its the Democrats who are literally saying, "Screw you republicans, we are in control now, and we do as we damn well please. This process of voting is just for show cos we control an absolute majority anyway - end of discussion, no future debates."
This kinda decision making process is dangerous!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
I think you are confused.
There's 2 houses in the US legislative assembly. The upper house is called the "senate", and the lower house, the "house of representatives." Together that makes up the "Congress."
Thats another entire issue altogether. What I am simply saying is that Republicans, being conservatists, generally do not believe in intervening in the economy and giving out welfare. They condemn protectionism; which is what Obama is trying to do by banning the use of foreign steel. Their differences towards economic policies is the firm divide that causes them vote against the bill. Its not about Iraq or playing punk as you simplistically put.
"Only 58 senators" is just 2 shy of puting a filibuster-proof bill through. That is how much control of the law making process that they have. Now that they've got 2-3 Republican senators on their side for this bill, which was passed in such a gusto, no one is sure whether these moderate Republicans are gonna sway towards the Democrats on future issues, giving them more filibuster-proof bills.
Its like, I plan a 1000-page bill. I introduce them this evening and we vote on it tomorrow morning. How the hell is anyone able to read through all the details of it? If there is anyone playing punk, its the Democrats who are literally saying, "Screw you republicans, we are in control now, and we do as we damn well please. This process of voting is just for show cos we control an absolute majority anyway - end of discussion, no future debates."
This kinda decision making process is dangerous!
there is the senate and there is the house. you want to use official term also can... don't feel like arguing this. point is, got democrats in the house voted against the bill like i said. Note that i distinguish them by using senate and house.
the conservatives republican introduce at least 1.4 trillion of spendings in the form of pure tax cuts. that's not very conservative.... surprise?
This kinda decision making is made by the majority of the senate.... the people voted in by the american people. What is you problem with them? They ARE suppose to vote for the deicision that way. Filibuster ARE broken if some of the opposition decide to support the bill. What are you expecting?
1000 page, not all relevant. 1000 page because they have all the details written down, but the summary is not that hard one. The aides will summarize and highlight important points for them.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
there is the senate and there is the house. you want to use official term also can... don't feel like arguing this. point is, got democrats in the house voted against the bill like i said. Note that i distinguish them by using senate and house.
the conservatives republican introduce at least 1.4 trillion of spendings in the form of pure tax cuts. that's not very conservative.... surprise?
This kinda decision making is made by the majority of the senate.... the people voted in by the american people. What is you problem with them? They ARE suppose to vote for the deicision that way. Filibuster ARE broken if some of the opposition decide to support the bill. What are you expecting?
1000 page, not all relevant. 1000 page because they have all the details written down, but the summary is not that hard one. The aides will summarize and highlight important points for them.
Look, nothing personal. I'm not here to argue with you or direct anything at you. From my first post about this, i've directed my posts at the situation and not you.
*I* don't have a problem with them. I am just LOOKING AT A PROBLEM of theirs. And that problem is the manner in which this bill was passed, intended to prevent any Republican consideration and objection.
You can say that its the way the system is supposed to work, fine. But I am just LOOKING AT A PROBLEM which the abuse of the system may cause.
I'm not one to be fussy with terms, but you were trying to correct a mistake that I did not make. I know what the US Congress consists of, so I wasn't sure what you are telling me to google about. When I said senators, I meant SENATORs and not Janitors or Representatives.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Look, nothing personal. I'm not here to argue with you or direct anything at you. From my first post about this, i've directed my posts at the situation and not you.
*I* don't have a problem with them. I am just LOOKING AT A PROBLEM of theirs. And that problem is the manner in which this bill was passed, intended to prevent any Republican consideration and objection.
You can say that its the way the system is supposed to work, fine. But I am just LOOKING AT A PROBLEM which the abuse of the system may cause.
I'm not one to be fussy with terms, but you were trying to correct a mistake that I did not make. I know what the US Congress consists of, so I wasn't sure what you are telling me to google about. When I said senators, I meant SENATORs and not Janitors or Representatives.
yah, i'm the dumb one, whatever.
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i have a solution to help american out of this bankrupcy myth.
Incide a world war 3. the world would seek protection from american. american can sell all the weapons they can produce in their arsenal. debt? maybe it will be over in mths.
isnt that how germany NAZI size power and conquer europe?
isnt that how american got out of their own depression.
just conspiracy theory.
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it doesnt matter how rep and demo pass the senate bill. As long as it pass, the can only be good news for the rest of the world.
i am rather sceptical about china economy stimulus plan. In fact whether they walk the talk is another story.
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Originally posted by reyes:
i have a solution to help american out of this bankrupcy myth.
Incide a world war 3. the world would seek protection from american. american can sell all the weapons they can produce in their arsenal. debt? maybe it will be over in mths.
isnt that how germany NAZI size power and conquer europe?
isnt that how american got out of their own depression.
just conspiracy theory.
No conspiracy theory here.War is one good way to stimulate the economy. That was how the US got out of the Great Depression. The Korean War provided a boom to the Japanese economy. Thus, General Smedley Butler (I think), wrote "War is a racket".
Whether or not most wars are conspiracies is another matter, otherwise the usual "conspiracy theory" bounty-hunters will come after me.
It could be in the works, a war. After all, US intelligence reports that Israel may attack Iran this year. So who knows...
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Originally posted by reyes:
i have a solution to help american out of this bankrupcy myth.
Incide a world war 3. the world would seek protection from american. american can sell all the weapons they can produce in their arsenal. debt? maybe it will be over in mths.
isnt that how germany NAZI size power and conquer europe?
isnt that how american got out of their own depression.
just conspiracy theory.
Yup, just conspiracy theory.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
Yup, just conspiracy theory.
So you're denying that WWII got the US economy going again during WWII?German rearmament didn't jumpstart their economy after Hitler came to power?
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in fact the WWII did really help USA, German get out of poverty and depression. But the one that last longest is the victor.
IN the world now, we can defeat USA?
hahah
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
So you're denying that WWII got the US economy going again during WWII?German rearmament didn't jumpstart their economy after Hitler came to power?
deny what fuck?
no conspiracy = WWII did not get US economy going?
no conspiracy = german rearmament did not jumpstart economy?
How did you make this kind of connection? base on what? did i say that?
Or your theory is
WWII get US economy going = conspiracy?
german rearmament jumpstart economy = conspiracy?
and by magic, saying no conspiracy makes means i deny these stuff?
Yes, you can make that kind of conspiracy claim, but you CANNOT make any weird claim about what i think when i say no conspiracy.
Now i introduce my conspiracy theory and give you a feel of your own medicine.
My conspiracy: Everything is done by aliens.every time you reply something that suggest the contrary, i will spout random facts and ask why you deny them
just go down the list. Repeat if neccesary.
1. So you're denying that bananas are yellow when ripe?
2. So you're denying that alchohol can make people drunk?
3. So you're denying that falling from tall places can kill people?
4. So you're denying that pi is 3.14159265358........?
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Originally posted by skythewood:
Yup, just conspiracy theory.
What did you mean when you said this?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
What did you mean when you said this?
I give you easier analogy
1. john father have insurance, and john is one of the benefactor
2. John father died in the accidentbased on this, some guy says John killed his father.
THIS IS CALLED CONSPIRACY.
so i say this is just CONSPIRACY
does that mean i deny the fact that fact 1 and 2 never happened? NO.
And that is what you are trying to say when you accuse me of denying whatever fact you mentioned.
THAT IS JUST CONSPIRACY.
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"How many democrats voted against the 819 Billion stimulus bill that passed in the House yesterday?"
Allan Boyd (D-FL)
Bobby Bright (D-AL)
Jim Cooper (D-TN)
Brad Ellsworth (D-IN)
Parker Griffith (D-AL)
Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)
Frank Kratovil (D-MD)
Walt Minnick (D-ID)
Collin Peterson (D-MN)
Heath Shuler (D-NC)
Gene Taylor (D-MS -
Responding to both skythewood and Shotgun.
Lets talk some politics.
The republican did not vote for the stimulus package partly because it was a party strategy. There are philosophical differences Yes. But I think, REP are aiming for mid-term election to gain control of the House. I actually watch TV and heard this strategy was sprouting during the Republican Primary as the conservative group within Republican Party was not satisfied with John McCain. So they rather lost the election and work on gaining the house back by 2010.
I think at the end what Obama himself has said he can sit down and listen to changes in the stimulus package but not philosophical approach to save the Economy.
So it wasn’t screw you republicans. I think the Rep is taking 100% Risk. Its more like all hands in 1 bet. The republicans are betting on this stimulus package are not going to work.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
I give you easier analogy
1. john father have insurance, and john is one of the benefactor
2. John father died in the accidentbased on this, some guy says John killed his father.
THIS IS CALLED CONSPIRACY.
so i say this is just CONSPIRACY
does that mean i deny the fact that fact 1 and 2 never happened? NO.
And that is what you are trying to say when you accuse me of denying whatever fact you mentioned.
THAT IS JUST CONSPIRACY.
Now you're trying to change what you said?
Using your analogy, when someone said/ alledges that John killed his own father, it is a conspiracy theory, assuming it has not been proved yet. If it has been proved, and it is the work of two or more people scheming together, then it is a conspiracy.
When reyes said something about wars could get the US out of debt and cited the examples of Germany and the US during the Great Depression, you said that it was a "conspiracy theory", meaning that you deny that WWII had an economic benefit, whether or not it was planned- though I'm sure the arms manufacturers will agree.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Responding to both skythewood and Shotgun.
Lets talk some politics.
The republican did not vote for the stimulus package partly because it was a party strategy. There are philosophical differences Yes. But I think, REP are aiming for mid-term election to gain control of the House. I actually watch TV and heard this strategy was sprouting during the Republican Primary as the conservative group within Republican Party was not satisfied with John McCain. So they rather lost the election and work on gaining the house back by 2010.
I think at the end what Obama himself has said he can sit down and listen to changes in the stimulus package but not philosophical approach to save the Economy.
So it wasn’t screw you republicans. I think the Rep is taking 100% Risk. Its more like all hands in 1 bet. The republicans are betting on this stimulus package are not going to work.
How come your talk about politic is cut and paste one, or copy or paste, so to speak, r u talking or using other people notes??In school, if copy others' essay and said that it is our own, when teacher found out, they called my parents.
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Originally posted by reyes:
in fact the WWII did really help USA, German get out of poverty and depression. But the one that last longest is the victor.
IN the world now, we can defeat USA?
hahah
Yes My Fuhrer, Hail Hitler,Our Republic of Singapore NAvy are all on standby awaiting your supreme command to attack. Are we goin to attack Pearl harbour again??
Colonel Angel
SS Waffen
successor to the operation Valkyrie
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Us (Arse) stimulus works on me.
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Lol. From the movie Valkyrie.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Now you're trying to change what you said?
Using your analogy, when someone said/ alledges that John killed his own father, it is a conspiracy theory, assuming it has not been proved yet. If it has been proved, and it is the work of two or more people scheming together, then it is a conspiracy.
When reyes said something about wars could get the US out of debt and cited the examples of Germany and the US during the Great Depression, you said that it was a "conspiracy theory", meaning that you deny that WWII had an economic benefit, whether or not it was planned- though I'm sure the arms manufacturers will agree.
Fuck you.
You didn't even read what i replied to. You better fucking read what Reyes posted before you accuse me of something bullshit again.
Originally posted by Reyes:
i have a solution to help american out of this bankrupcy myth.
Incide a world war 3. the world would seek protection from american. american can sell all the weapons they can produce in their arsenal. debt? maybe it will be over in mths.
isnt that how germany NAZI size power and conquer europe?
isnt that how american got out of their own depression.
just conspiracy theory.
And what did i reply?
Yup, just conspiracy theory.
which part you don't understand now?
Fuck fuck fuck.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Now you're trying to change what you said?
Using your analogy, when someone said/ alledges that John killed his own father, it is a conspiracy theory, assuming it has not been proved yet. If it has been proved, and it is the work of two or more people scheming together, then it is a conspiracy.
When reyes said something about wars could get the US out of debt and cited the examples of Germany and the US during the Great Depression, you said that it was a "conspiracy theory", meaning that you deny that WWII had an economic benefit, whether or not it was planned- though I'm sure the arms manufacturers will agree.
And what the fuck is your problem with me agreeing with Reyes???
What the fuck is your problem? I not even fucking talking to you understand? Why you never ask Reyes why he say conspiracy theory???
Come on, give me a fucking answer why??
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Yes My Fuhrer, Hail Hitler,Our Republic of Singapore NAvy are all on standby awaiting your supreme command to attack. Are we goin to attack Pearl harbour again??
Colonel Angel
SS Waffen
successor to the operation Valkyrie
O.o!!
Tell me if you're gonna put on a Waffen SS uniform!
