Temasek should just have kepts its money and not invest.
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imagine the money could have been used locally to upgrade estates, imporve defense sectorand do other beneficial things for people in singapore.
Even if not used , it would have increased our soveign wealth funds..
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Nonsense.
They should invest with the money.
After all, if they make money, they will pay themselves handsome bonuses.
If they lose money like what is happening now, they still get paid an obscene amount of money and can claim bad market conditions.
These kind of jobs where to find?
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Yes Nonsense!
Yes! and they should take more from the idiot silliporeans to lose... after all it is better that they lose it (while lining their own pockets)... you just know that the silliporeans will lose it anyways.... after all, they are such idiots so much so that they can let despots take their hard earned money and not say anything....
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given the interest rates, if they keep it, it would not be productive..
we are experiencing extraordinary times.. if it turns around and they makes a buckload, then what will happen??
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Yes Nonsense!
Yes! and they should take more from the idiot silliporeans to lose... after all it is better that they lose it (while lining their own pockets)... you just know that the silliporeans will lose it anyways.... after all, they are such idiots so much so that they can let despots take their hard earned money and not say anything....
If you r referring to SGreans wic u r[i believe so], you r scolding urself too...
Temasek should invest but at a later time rather than 2 earli so Citi is now Dirt cheap at USD3.75 plus... WRONG step by Temasek to go in to early like the other SWFs who are now bleeding like mad... -
Originally posted by iceFatboy:
given the interest rates, if they keep it, it would not be productive..
we are experiencing extraordinary times.. if it turns around and they makes a buckload, then what will happen??
....base on what do you say that? The fact they are so good they lost a hundred billion? That is the basis for your optimism? I suggest to you that you are under a delusion from all the propaganda.
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Originally posted by Acx1688:
If you r referring to SGreans wic u r[i believe so], you r scolding urself too...
Temasek should invest but at a later time rather than 2 earli so Citi is now Dirt cheap at USD3.75 plus... WRONG step by Temasek to go in to early like the other SWFs who are now bleeding like mad...I am referring to silliporeans that "keep quiet"... by no stretch of anyone's imagination can I be accused of "keeping quiet". Curse them too vehemently, maybe... and not AFTER they lost the money mind you.... BEFORE...
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
I am referring to silliporeans that "keep quiet"... by no stretch of anyone's imagination can I be accused of "keeping quiet". Curse them too vehemently, maybe... and not AFTER they lost the money mind you.... BEFORE...
Apologies for mis intepreting... BUt then again, Temasek make a big BOO BOO, trying to back track with a lot of propaganda that they are in for long haul...
YES LONG HAUL but if Temasek actually waited before they jump into bed with Citi, Merrill, we WOULD have been able to buy MORE of the bank at a lower amount... now our stake is DILUTED when the new treasury plan comes in... Wasted opportunity and monies which would have been used to increase the welfare monies for the needy n poor n destitute... -
they shpuld a least waited till the crisis happened, now the new treasury plans migh have proved beneficial to them...
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Originally posted by Acx1688:
Apologies for mis intepreting... BUt then again, Temasek make a big BOO BOO, trying to back track with a lot of propaganda that they are in for long haul...
YES LONG HAUL but if Temasek actually waited before they jump into bed with Citi, Merrill, we WOULD have been able to buy MORE of the bank at a lower amount... now our stake is DILUTED when the new treasury plan comes in... Wasted opportunity and monies which would have been used to increase the welfare monies for the needy n poor n destitute...It is not a question of if the went it earlier or later... it is just abhorant that they take the people's money and set up a fund so as to legally line their own pockets.
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They could just assign some civil servants to make the invesments and they do not even have to pay the civil servants any extra. But like I said, the idea itself is flawed and abhorant, to take the people's money and set up a fund with it.
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I had an interesting discussion with some friends the other day.
We were estimating the true wealth of Singapore. Some of us were wondering if Temasek was just the tip of the iceberg.
After all, we have GIC, which according to our govt, holds a larger base of funds with a mroe conservative outlook.
I thought we also have foreign exchange reserves held by MAS, which during my school days 14 years ago, was US$58 billion.
How about our national reserves that were locked away? Do that include GIC and Temasek funds?
We were estimating our wealth, and I was thinking if we could be close to $1trillion. Some of my friends believe the figure would be about $500 billion.
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This is not the time to come and say, '' we should not have invested in ______ ''. Temasek/GIC made investments, took risks, and have been proven wrong. Yes, we made losses of $58B (Temasek) but who's to say that these investments will not turn around and cut their losses one day?
Nobody can perfectly time the market. Not even a double first class honours grad from Stanford. Even Berkshire Hathaway is suffering losses now. But that is not the issue I am contending.
I am not as unhappy about our SWFs making a timing mistake.The future is uncertain and I am sure they have their reasons for investing into Financials at that point in time. I am however, displeased with the fact that we are being misled (deliberately in my opinion) by comparing ourselves with funds like the MSCI World Index, which to my knowledge is an ALL EQUITY portfolio. To say that we outperformed an all equity index and gloat about it is definitely not professional, and definitely seems like just another way of justifying that eltism works and higher salaries should be commanded for these talents.
Temasek/GIC owns many GLCs, and these GLCs contribute to the mean return of Temasek's portfolio by way of retained earnings and dividend income. Temasek/GIC also have their fair share of fixed income investments. How can we compare their returns/losses to an all equity portfolio? Take Citigroup for example, we are currently NOT holding any equity in Citi; Temasek took out a convertible bond arrangement with the Bank, although it is one of mandatory conversion (Dec 2010).
One other grouse, why say things like '' we have a long term view in _______'' ? These comments are aimed at confusing the layman who has no idea that share prices do not reflect an entire story when it comes to investments like these because securities can be potentially dilutive, especially the case for Financials at this point in time. For example, UBS has taken quite a few writedowns and have had some injection in capital. These capital injections DILUTE the current shareholdings of any investor but this is not something that everybody knows. All we know is that the share price has fallen by X% and we think that if it recovers to $Y, then we potentially have not made any losses. By the end of this crisis, how much have our shareholdings in the Financials we have invested in been diluted by?
As a taxpayer and citizen of this country, it is natural for me to be upset when I see that my money has slipped out of my country and gone into some banker's pay packet. But ultimately, what I am concerned about is the lack of transparency and accountability that our 2 famed SWFs are using as a veil to shroud their losses.
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Originally posted by maxtor:
This is not the time to come and say, '' we should not have invested in ______ ''. Temasek/GIC made investments, took risks, and have been proven wrong. Yes, we made losses of $58B (Temasek) but who's to say that these investments will not turn around and cut their losses one day?
Nobody can perfectly time the market. Not even a double first class honours grad from Stanford. Even Berkshire Hathaway is suffering losses now. But that is not the issue I am contending.
I am not as unhappy about our SWFs making a timing mistake.The future is uncertain and I am sure they have their reasons for investing into Financials at that point in time. I am however, displeased with the fact that we are being misled (deliberately in my opinion) by comparing ourselves with funds like the MSCI World Index, which to my knowledge is an ALL EQUITY portfolio. To say that we outperformed an all equity index and gloat about it is definitely not professional, and definitely seems like just another way of justifying that eltism works and higher salaries should be commanded for these talents.
Temasek/GIC owns many GLCs, and these GLCs contribute to the mean return of Temasek's portfolio by way of retained earnings and dividend income. Temasek/GIC also have their fair share of fixed income investments. How can we compare their returns/losses to an all equity portfolio? Take Citigroup for example, we are currently NOT holding any equity in Citi; Temasek took out a convertible bond arrangement with the Bank, although it is one of mandatory conversion (Dec 2010).
One other grouse, why say things like '' we have a long term view in _______'' ? These comments are aimed at confusing the layman who has no idea that share prices do not reflect an entire story when it comes to investments like these because securities can be potentially dilutive, especially the case for Financials at this point in time. For example, UBS has taken quite a few writedowns and have had some injection in capital. These capital injections DILUTE the current shareholdings of any investor but this is not something that everybody knows. All we know is that the share price has fallen by X% and we think that if it recovers to $Y, then we potentially have not made any losses. By the end of this crisis, how much have our shareholdings in the Financials we have invested in been diluted by?
As a taxpayer and citizen of this country, it is natural for me to be upset when I see that my money has slipped out of my country and gone into some banker's pay packet. But ultimately, what I am concerned about is the lack of transparency and accountability that our 2 famed SWFs are using as a veil to shroud their losses.
Who's to say that it will turn around or "who's to say that these investments will not turn around and cut their losses one day? "
Who the fark care? Just don't take people's money and go on gambling sprees...
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Who's to say that it will turn around or "who's to say that these investments will not turn around and cut their losses one day? "
Who the fark care? Just don't take people's money and go on gambling sprees...
Got extra money can gamble a little but musnt try to double up bets to win back losses.Only end up losing underwea in the end.And I dont think seeing Madame Ho in undergarments would be a pretty sight. Hence, the time to bow out (rather than sell backside) -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Who's to say that it will turn around or "who's to say that these investments will not turn around and cut their losses one day? "
Who the fark care? Just don't take people's money and go on gambling sprees...
The damage has been done, what we can do is to prevent further damage from happening. we already lost $X (how much is X i dunno), and it doesnt make sense to pull out of these investments right now.
I'm thinking if there were more transparency going around perhaps we citizens (the only people who truly care about our country) might be able to work out ourselves the thought process behind their actions.
but granted la, it won't help much. but it might help us see better who would be a better party to vote for in the next elections..
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by the way, i am looking for the asset allocation of Temasek holdings but i am unable to find any. does anyone know where i can find such information? It seems that information like this is not privy to a lesser mortal like me.