GIC loses another $50 Billion - after Temasek ?
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This will mean that the combine losses of GIC and Temasek will amount to over $100Billion up till 18 February 2009
Who will resign this time ?
Who will be accountable ?
AFP - Wednesday, February 18, 2009
SINGAPORE, Feb 17, 2009 (AFP) - Government of Singapore Investment Corp, which has helped bail out troubled global financial institutions, suffered an investment loss of about 50 billion Singapore dollars (33 billion US) last year, sources told Dow Jones Newswires on Tuesday.
In late 2007 and early last year GIC injected billions of dollars into Swiss bank UBS as well as US banking giant Citigroup, both of which suffered massive losses from US subprime, or higher-risk, mortgage investments.
Subprime troubles later evolved into the worldwide financial slowdown.
"The loss on the investment portfolio last year is estimated at around 45 billion to 50 billion," one of two people familiar with the GIC situation told Dow Jones.
"But, GIC has no thoughts to sell down any of its major investments. They'll wait until they recover."
UBS this month posted an annual loss of 17 billion US dollars, the largest in Swiss corporate history, and announced 2,000 new job cuts.
A second person said GIC's investment loss last year was "recently estimated to be similar to Temasek's."
The portfolio of Singapore sovereign wealth fund Temasek Holdings, which helped bail out Wall Street icon Merrill Lynch, fell about 31 percent over eight months last year, Senior Minister of State for Finance Lim Hwee Hua told parliament last week.
She said Temasek's portfolio of investments fell to 127 billion dollars at the end of November, down 58 billion from 185 billion dollars on March 31 last year.
Lim said it was not the first time GIC and Temasek had seen major declines in markets, and that GIC had "creditable returns" over the 20-year period to late 2008.
Asked for comment on the Dow Jones report, a GIC spokesman said the firm did not comment on "speculative reports".
GIC, one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds, in September said its nominal rate of return over the 20 years to March 31 last year was 7.8 percent in US dollar terms.
"Temasek and GIC are long-term investors, and should be evaluated as such," Lim said. "GIC and Temasek have the ability and resources to weather the ups and downs, over multiple economic and market cycles."
Singapore's GIC losses about 33 bln US dlrs: sources
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The cursed damned senile despot that setup a cronyistic, nepotistic syetem that persecutes activist, dissidents and opposition should, but then with so many asslicking cronies he appointed to protect him, you think that will happen? They would rather destroy Singapore than to lay a finger on their beloved Mentor that brought them so much wealth with public money.
see: 09 Oct `08, 8:17AM
Only 100 billion for Temasek and GIC?
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that amount loses by GIC is almost double of singapore govt stimulus package to aid singapore economy.
If that money is further thrown into singapore economy, singapore will really be STEAM, instead of bitpart stimulus.
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Originally posted by reyes:
that amount loses by GIC is almost double of singapore govt stimulus package to aid singapore economy.
If that money is further thrown into singapore economy, singapore will really be STEAM, instead of bitpart stimulus.
Only "almost double"? Are you high on drugs or something?
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No one know the true extent of the losses in Temasek.Their accounts are unaudited and no one know what kind of accounting methods they use to account for their investments.
Ho Ching's Ass was saved by "Earning Management" by selling power stations and recognising the gains of these power station to hide her losses. The Government also injected $10 Billion cash into Temasek which gave them a lesser weightage in the equity market.
If the portfolio are as those stated in their website, 40% in financial stocks,it is nowhere close to be "diversified". It is a high risk and aggressive portfolio and the government claims it is well diversified.
Now you know why they changed the rules of CPF recently to allow Singaporeans to invest only when their Special account exceeds $30,000 on top of the current $20,000 requirement in ordinary account. Someone has to pay for Ho Ching's mistake.
Source
http://www.temasekholdings.com.sg/our_portfolio_portfolio_highlights_sector.htm
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1. i was shocked when i read the dow jones wire.
2. i am not sure why these gic/temasek chaps keep harping on past peformances. lehman bros and ML also harped on their glorious past and where are they now? i hope for once they focus on the present and future. it's high time they admit to mistakes/poor judgement and take definitive actions to replace/revamp their investment policies.
3. they said they will wait `long, long' for the investment to bear fruit. in 20years, even if this doesn't materialized, all will be forgotten and `all in good' in their camp.
what lky & the fellow citizens accumulated in 40years, it takes a bunch of nincompoops a few years to lose it (almost) all. the sad part is his family is part of the plot.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
2. i am not sure why these gic/temasek chaps keep harping on past peformances. lehman bros and ML also harped on their glorious past and where are they now? i hope for once they focus on the present and future. it's high time they admit to mistakes/poor judgement and take definitive actions to replace/revamp their investment policies.
Temasek was merely providing funding for the local GLCs in the early years. Now they have started actively investing, we have such "fantastic performance". I think the correct yardstick for their competence should be when Temasek has started to actively manage their money.
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Only "almost double"? Are you high on drugs or something?
Please be polite when u speak ok? no one owe u a living. we are here to debate on topics not engage in personal attack. Get a life.
almost double i mean GIC not including temasek. remember the word " almost", not detail in specific nos.
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Originally posted by reyes:
Please be polite when u speak ok? no one owe u a living. we are here to debate on topics not engage in personal attack. Get a life.
almost double i mean GIC not including temasek. remember the word " almost", not detail in specific nos.
agreed. my point though is really on `accountability'. -
Originally posted by reyes:
Please be polite when u speak ok? no one owe u a living. we are here to debate on topics not engage in personal attack. Get a life.
almost double i mean GIC not including temasek. remember the word " almost", not detail in specific nos.
What are the losses GIC reportedly suffered? What is the stimulus package? Are you too stupid to compare figures?
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If you had said, "more than double" would I have replied to your post?
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The GIC and Temasek losses may be more than reported. There is no transparency so only the insiders know. Looking at the 2009 meagre budget,all the measure is collecting less not giving assistance.
I think Singapore is in deep shit.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
This will mean that the combine losses of GIC and Temasek will amount to over $100Billion up till 18 February 2009
Who will resign this time ?
Who will be accountable ?
SG developes from a damn poor country to a not--so--bad country
in standard of living,eg lowest infant mortality rate in the WORLD!!
One of highest GDP per capita--
9Singapore is 9 th in GDP per capita at PPP.
etc etc..The ONLY slum free country in the WORLD.
who shall be praised and rewarded for this achievemnt?
''Singapore was commended for being 'one of the cleanest and most welcoming cities in the world' by the World Bank in its World Development Report 2009. The report highlighted Singapore's meticulous planning and the implementation of sound policies focused on economic activity as enabling the country to overcome problems like unemployment, illiteracy and overcrowding to arrive at its current state of development.''
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Singapore
''In 1965, when independence was thrust
on Singapore, it was not near any prosperous
or peaceful place. Instead, it lay between
Malaysia and Indonesia, two poor countries
that had been ravaged by war between colonizers.
Three-quarters of Singapore’s population
lived in tenements. By 1980 it had
industrialized, specializing in electronics,
much as Shenzhen is doing now. By 1986 it
was the world’s busiest container port and
Southeast Asia’s fi nancial hub. Along the
way, by instituting land markets, building
effi cient transport infrastructure, and intervening
to improve housing, it cleaned up its
slums''http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTRESEARCH/EXTWDRS/EXTWDR2009/0,,contentMDK:21955654~pagePK:64167689~piPK:64167673~theSitePK:4231059,00.html
2.How much we still have in two giants
The total paper loss is 108b
If we loss........then we still haveS$
30%..................200b
25%.................300b etc--take note this is damn net assets,alomost
net debt free!!
Misunderstnading of SG public debts
few innocent guys will tell u SG public debt is sky high!!
They are partly correct--
SG borrow money not for spending,unlike other countries,
incl USA!!
SG gavaman borrow from CPF Board in order to stuff
interest to CPF members' pockets.
CPF cannot use members to invest and take risks .Right?
So,the only way is SG gavaman 'borrow'' money from CPF.
Then CPF can collect interest from SG gavaman and credit
interest into members' accounts!!
Public debt:
92.6% of GDP (2008 est.)
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next time if people tell u SG public debt is 93% of GDP.
No need to panic.tell them the CPF story.
If we heavely debted,where do SG get the money to invest in the past
2 years,smart guys!!
Public debt as % of GDP ---wow no. 7 th in the world!!
Lucky the Opposition so far did not raise this as a issue
in the past GE.
But our learned Chee Soon Juan quoted or
mentioned this public debt issues in SDP site!!
7Singapore 92.60 2008 est. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
SG developes from a damn poor country to a not--so--bad country
in standard of living,eg lowest infant mortality rate in the WORLD!!
One of highest GDP per capita--
9Singapore is 9 th in GDP per capita at PPP.
etc etc..The ONLY slum free country in the WORLD.
who shall be praised and rewarded for this achievemnt?
''Singapore was commended for being 'one of the cleanest and most welcoming cities in the world' by the World Bank in its World Development Report 2009. The report highlighted Singapore's meticulous planning and the implementation of sound policies focused on economic activity as enabling the country to overcome problems like unemployment, illiteracy and overcrowding to arrive at its current state of development.''
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Singapore
''In 1965, when independence was thrust
on Singapore, it was not near any prosperous
or peaceful place. Instead, it lay between
Malaysia and Indonesia, two poor countries
that had been ravaged by war between colonizers.
Three-quarters of Singapore’s population
lived in tenements. By 1980 it had
industrialized, specializing in electronics,
much as Shenzhen is doing now. By 1986 it
was the world’s busiest container port and
Southeast Asia’s fi nancial hub. Along the
way, by instituting land markets, building
effi cient transport infrastructure, and intervening
to improve housing, it cleaned up its
slums''http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTRESEARCH/EXTWDRS/EXTWDR2009/0,,contentMDK:21955654~pagePK:64167689~piPK:64167673~theSitePK:4231059,00.html
2.How much we still have in two giants
The total paper loss is 108b
If we loss........then we still haveS$
30%..................200b
25%.................300b etc--take note this is damn net assets,alomost
net debt free!!
Misunderstnading of SG public debts
few innocent guys will tell u SG public debt is sky high!!
They are partly correct--
SG borrow money not for spending,unlike other countries,
incl USA!!
SG gavaman borrow from CPF Board in order to stuff
interest to CPF members' pockets.
CPF cannot use members to invest and take risks .Right?
So,the only way is SG gavaman 'borrow'' money from CPF.
Then CPF can collect interest from SG gavaman and credit
interest into members' accounts!!
Public debt: 92.6% of GDP (2008 est.)
man....., you are missing the whole point.for a start, stop getting into a knee jerk reaction of cutting and pasting.
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Only a fool will believe himself not to have lost anything by consoling with what he had gained previously but lost everything today.
If you must be a noisy pussy, at least try not to show yourself as a sucker for false news designed for those who are mentally handicapped - unless you are already one ?
Originally posted by lionnoisy:SG developes from a damn poor country to a not--so--bad country
in standard of living,eg lowest infant mortality rate in the WORLD!!
One of highest GDP per capita--
9Singapore is 9 th in GDP per capita at PPP.
etc etc..The ONLY slum free country in the WORLD.
who shall be praised and rewarded for this achievemnt?
''Singapore was commended for being 'one of the cleanest and most welcoming cities in the world' by the World Bank in its World Development Report 2009. The report highlighted Singapore's meticulous planning and the implementation of sound policies focused on economic activity as enabling the country to overcome problems like unemployment, illiteracy and overcrowding to arrive at its current state of development.''
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Singapore
How does that console anyone for the hardship that Singaporeans must face, even as this government refused welfarism to help Singaporeans - but expect Singaporeans to look after ourselves, even as the government will continue to stubbornly raised fees, taxes, and charges to suck away the private money through its monopoly of services that Singaporeans are made to depend on ?
The ONLY "SLUM FREE" COUNTRY in the World ?
Stop being a "noisy pussy" - if you must be a pussy in swallowing everything that pour into you.
Visit the ONE-Room HDB flats at Bukit Merah, Tiong Bahru, Tanjong Pagar - those blocks of HDB with a dark gloomy corridor with single room units on both side of the narrow corridor that is as good as any alley.
The glorious slums of Singapore are hidden within the concrete blocks that are beautifully painted.
Singapore is the ONLY country that keeps it slums well hidden in neat rows of uniform concrete blocks, while the occupants have to live out their lives subjected to the threats of water and electricity being cut off if they fail to pay the unsubsidised monthly dues.
''In 1965, when independence was thrust
on Singapore, it was not near any prosperous
or peaceful place. Instead, it lay between
Malaysia and Indonesia, two poor countries
that had been ravaged by war between colonizers.
Three-quarters of Singapore’s population
lived in tenements. By 1980 it had
industrialized, specializing in electronics,
much as Shenzhen is doing now. By 1986 it
was the world’s busiest container port and
Southeast Asia’s fi nancial hub. Along the
way, by instituting land markets, building
effi cient transport infrastructure, and intervening
to improve housing, it cleaned up its
slums''If LKY had conducted a real 'Referendum' without 'fixxing' its outcome, will Singapore have so much baggage with Malaysia and Indonesia ?
As matters stand, we are always held to ransom for one reason or another, negotiations have to be continuously based on trade-offs, and not on mutual respect and mutual gain.
The people has given more to all that the Government has taken and will continue to take, while the Government give back so much less.
Is this a proud record of leadership ?
Yes, Singaporeans have alot to be proud of that despite a bloodsucking government, we continue to be able to survive through all the atrocities that this Government can create.
The Government has stolen our Freehold Land with the stroke of a pen, taken possession at a fraction of the true value, develop the land with our savings, and selling it to us with a huge profit to themselves.
At the end of it all, the Government treasury get bloated, while the people struggle to pay their mortgages - and as events would have it, the money in the bloated treasury is wasted into the pockets of foreigners to satisfy the bloated ego of our Political Leaders - proudly basking in the international limelight as "White Knights" rescueing foreign institutions, who take our money and laughed all the way to their banks while we are left with empty shells.
http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTRESEARCH/EXTWDRS/EXTWDR2009/0,,contentMDK:21955654~pagePK:64167689~piPK:64167673~theSitePK:4231059,00.html
2.How much we still have in two giants
The total paper loss is 108b
If we loss........then we still haveS$
30%..................200b
25%.................300b etc--take note this is damn net assets,alomost
net debt free!!
Hey, noisy pussy - which other pussy are you interlocuting that allow you access to such privilege information ?
Who told you that our NET Asset is 200B and 300B - when the late President Ong Teng Cheong was stone-walled as he asked for the full accounting of Singapore's assets that he was supposed to guard ?
Or are you simply being a typical noisy pussy that makes more sound than what you are truly worth ?
Misunderstnading of SG public debts
few innocent guys will tell u SG public debt is sky high!!
They are partly correct--
SG borrow money not for spending,unlike other countries,
incl USA!!
SG gavaman borrow from CPF Board in order to stuff
interest to CPF members' pockets.
It would not have been so bad coming from a few innocent guys who knows nothing of the shannigans of the PAP.
But coming from a 'noisy pussy' - this must be the ultimate insult that you wish to pour on us who are more intelligent than you.
Only you will accept the 'SG gavaman borrow from CPF Board in order to stuff interest to CPF members' pockets' - you must surely be mentally handicapped to believe that a Government who DO NOT profess welfarism will do you such a tremendous favor.
What is the size of a peanut to satisfy your noisy pussy ?
CPF cannot use members to invest and take risks .Right?
So,the only way is SG gavaman 'borrow'' money from CPF.
Then CPF can collect interest from SG gavaman and credit
interest into members' accounts!!
CPF cannot use members to invest and take risks ?
Has the CPF not been using members to invest and take risks all this time, or have you sunk your head so deep into your noisy pussy ?
What interests have the SG Government paid to the CPF for the use of the funds borrowed from the CPF ?
With commercial banks charging 4 percent in Singapore, 20 percent on the International banking circle - Singaporeans are paid only 2 percent annually on the balance of the CPF monies locked up.
Is there any use for all the interests earned, when there are as many schemes that prevent and delay us from collecting our CPF till we reach 80+ in age ?
Public debt: 92.6% of GDP (2008 est.)
Are we supposed to accept the skewed financial concept of a noisy pussy ?
Should we be proud if our Public Debt is 92.6% of GDP ?
Or should we hang the noisy pussy to dry if this public debt is true ?
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
next time if people tell u SG public debt is 93% of GDP.
No need to panic.tell them the CPF story.
If we heavely debted,where do SG get the money to invest in the past
2 years,smart guys!!
Public debt as % of GDP ---wow no. 7 th in the world!!
Lucky the Opposition so far did not raise this as a issue
in the past GE.
But our learned Chee Soon Juan quoted or
mentioned this public debt issues in SDP site!!
7Singapore 92.60 2008 est.
If we mention the CPF Story - the World will be laughing at a bunch of noisy pussy who willingly allow the Government to screw us for the pittance that is returned, and for the uncertainties as to whether we get to see our monies in the future.Did you quote CSJ out of context in your usual "pus in the pussy" ways ?
Can we accept the kind of standards that you have displayed ?
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Originally posted by redDUST:
2. i am not sure why these gic/temasek chaps keep harping on past peformances. lehman bros and ML also harped on their glorious past and where are they now? i hope for once they focus on the present and future. it's high time they admit to mistakes/poor judgement and take definitive actions to replace/revamp their investment policies.
When we were in positive territory, our leaders were out everywhere boasting how good they are. Never mind that the entire world, almost every country has positive growth. It's 100% their credit
When we are now in s**t, they start talking about Deng Xiaoping visiting Singapore decades ago, and how he mentioned how great Singapore was. They started "Little Nonya" on TV to get everyone on nostalgia mode. Nothing good to say about NOW, start saying good things about PAST.
Admit to mistakes? NAH... After all, according to them, we ONLY lost 30+% of our portfolio. We 'outperformed' the benchmark by about 10% you know. Never mind that 30% loss is amounting to billions of $$$, billions that can be better spent on Singaporeans.
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originally posted by redDUST: 2. i am not sure why these gic/temasek chaps keep harping on past peformances. lehman bros and ML also harped on their glorious past and where are they now? i hope for once they focus on the present and future. it's high time they admit to mistakes/poor judgement and take definitive actions to replace/revamp their investment policies. correct, lehman was hundred over years old! btw, when they harped on the past profits they also never provide any proofs. they can claim anything they like.
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aiya!!! 100 billions only mah, that is peanut ya.
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What are the losses GIC reportedly suffered? What is the stimulus package? Are you too stupid to compare figures?
oh yea, i guess when i am speaking to a AssHxxe. i need to be specify in my figures otherwise, you wont be able to understand.
by the way, i guess most ppl know what my meaning" almost double" like you said, i need to say," almost more than double" otherwise idiot like yourself wont understand. I am relieve to know most ppl here are not like you.
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
The GIC and Temasek losses may be more than reported. There is no transparency so only the insiders know. Looking at the 2009 meagre budget,all the measure is collecting less not giving assistance.
I think Singapore is in deep shit.
what??? singapore in deep shit, no mah, me still at my pool slurping cocktail with my laptop and sun tanning, what deep shit are you talking about...everything is just ok, dun press the panic button ya, be cool, we will ride it out together. -
GIC and Temasek holdings lost a total of S$108 billions
GIC, Temasek holdings and Foreign exchange reseves totalled S$550 billions
So, it is a loss of 19.6%.
S$108 billions = S$108,000,000,000
3% p.a. Interest = S$3,240,000,000
If a worker is paid $1,000 per month ie $12,000 per year, this can keep 270,000
workers employed every year as long as the interest does not fall below 3% per
year. (If the interest rate or yield on US government Treasury Bonds's are 5%
p.a., 450,000 workers can be kept employed every year)
Alternatively, S$108,000,000,000 can keep 1,600,000 workers employed for 5
years at a monthly salary of $1000 per worker.
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Originally posted by Lee012lee:
GIC and Temasek holdings lost a total of S$108 billions
GIC, Temasek holdings and Foreign exchange reseves totalled S$550 billions
So, it is a loss of 19.6%.
S$108 billions = S$108,000,000,000
3% p.a. Interest = S$3,240,000,000
If a worker is paid $1,000 per month ie $12,000 per year, this can keep 270,000
workers employed every year as long as the interest does not fall below 3% per
year. (If the interest rate or yield on US government Treasury Bonds's are 5%
p.a., 450,000 workers can be kept employed every year)
Alternatively, S$108,000,000,000 can keep 1,600,000 workers employed for 5
years at a monthly salary of $1000 per worker.
alternatively, 1.6millions workers contributed $500 in tax or whatsoever to the govt, in 10 years times, govt will get back the 108 billions ++interest.My friend, in singapore, never calculate the gain of workers, be wise, you must always calculate on how much the govt is going to breakeven by us giving them, then from here, you figure out how are you going to evade those taxes...
