the world is a dark place, Sg does not know it
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i worked in the financial sectors in Australia and all i can say about the temasek investment that went wrong is that it was plain wrong to invest at a time when a financial crisis is looming. it would always been wiser to let the crisis happen first before investing.
Due to lack of world exposure on the part of those working in the investment sector in sg, i predicted this would happen. so many people with degrees, MBAs and PHDs, their lack of foresight is startling
Ang Moh have always been lucrative, never trust their words.
I would like to see at least they would have brought into Microsoft or other japanese giants would have been a worthy investment
or better still used the money locally to ride the tidal wave of recession.
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wtf are you blabbling about and what kind of heavy psychedelics have you been taking?
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And Singapore is not a dark place?
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With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to blame Temasek for being reckless and blowing a big hole. To be fair, Temasek bought heavily into heavily discounted foreign bank shares when the financial crisis was happening. The situation was very fluid at that time and the crisis could go either way i.e recover or continue worsening. It is reasonable to assume at that time that with massive US and European government bank bailouts and support, the problem could be contained and turned around. Unfortunately it got worse.
If you look at history of financial crisis, they all recover eventually. It's a matter of when. I think Temasek made the wrong call by thinking that the subprime crisis was temporary and underestimated the severity of the problem. It turned out that the subprime crisis is the tip of the iceberg - it triggered a tsunami of global financial meltdowns that was unprecedented in recent history. The fund managers at Temasek probably never experienced such a financial meltdown in their lifetimes ( they are grew up in the boom years).
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
i worked in the financial sectors in Australia and all i can say about the temasek investment that went wrong is that it was plain wrong to invest at a time when a financial crisis is looming. it would always been wiser to let the crisis happen first before investing.
Due to lack of world exposure on the part of those working in the investment sector in sg, i predicted this would happen. so many people with degrees, MBAs and PHDs, their lack of foresight is startling
Ang Moh have always been lucrative, never trust their words.
I would like to see at least they would have brought into Microsoft or other japanese giants would have been a worthy investment
or better still used the money locally to ride the tidal wave of recession.
now u look back and can say anything u like.
Have u sounded warning here before?one of our learned fren,Andrew?,
really putted down his warning here.
do u forget their past achievements?To be fair.Dunt just look at the past few years.
Tell me which companies make big $$?
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retard
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
And Singapore is not a dark place?
compared to? -
Originally posted by Simonmj:
With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to blame Temasek for being reckless and blowing a big hole. To be fair, Temasek bought heavily into heavily discounted foreign bank shares when the financial crisis was happening. The situation was very fluid at that time and the crisis could go either way i.e recover or continue worsening. It is reasonable to assume at that time that with massive US and European government bank bailouts and support, the problem could be contained and turned around. Unfortunately it got worse.
If you look at history of financial crisis, they all recover eventually. It's a matter of when. I think Temasek made the wrong call by thinking that the subprime crisis was temporary and underestimated the severity of the problem. It turned out that the subprime crisis is the tip of the iceberg - it triggered a tsunami of global financial meltdowns that was unprecedented in recent history. The fund managers at Temasek probably never experienced such a financial meltdown in their lifetimes ( they are grew up in the boom years).
In investments there are always risks. Dont you think Temasek took excessive risks by investing 40% in financials?
Secondly, if you made a mistake, at least admit it. Our Ho Ching said "i have no regrets". Our govt pluck one figure from the sky unsupported by audited accounts to claim temasek performs better than market average.
No one knows the true extent of losses by temasek as the accounts are unaudited. We dont know what kind of method temasek uses to account for their investments. What Singaporeans know is the string of investments made by Ho Ching are making huge amount of losses. She seems to have to uncanny ability to picks stocks before they are about to crash.
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Singapore used to be such a good place to live and work.
Haiz.
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Those days are long gone.
All migrate already.
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Originally posted by kilua:
In investments there are always risks. Dont you think Temasek took excessive risks by investing 40% in financials?
Secondly, if you made a mistake, at least admit it. Our Ho Ching said "i have no regrets". Our govt pluck one figure from the sky unsupported by audited accounts to claim temasek performs better than market average.
No one knows the true extent of losses by temasek as the accounts are unaudited. We dont know what kind of method temasek uses to account for their investments. What Singaporeans know is the string of investments made by Ho Ching are making huge amount of losses. She seems to have to uncanny ability to picks stocks before they are about to crash.
The portfolio mix is determined by Temasek's investment policy. If every sector is going down, then even if Temasek invest 10% in financials and 90% in other sectors, the loss will be just as great. I can give two reasons why Temasek is overweight in financials.
1. The shares they bought were once blue chip high quality banking stocks. They are also protected and supported by foreign governments. So the chances of these companies going bust are slim. ie. the risk is of losing it all is actually less compared to companies like ABC learning which shares are worthless now.
2. The prices of the banking shares are selling at huge discounts. Never have the prices plunged to these low levels in recent history and it is a window of opportunity to pick up these shares for a song. Temasek is taking a huge gamble but it is a calculated risk. Warren Buffet, one of the world most successful investor once said, "When everyone is greedy, be fearful. When everyone is fearful, be greedy". Temasek is following that doctrine and I think they will be vindicated when the markets eventually recover, maybe in a few years time.
About admitting mistakes, it is very hard for Ho Ching to do it. You see the PAP and govt related companies are run by very intellegent and highly educated people.But they suffer from one big weakness. That is, they cannot accept the fact that they can be wrong because all their lives, they have used their intelligence to solve and overcome complex problems. This gave them the illusion that by using logic, they can figure out the markets and beat the system. Unfortunately the markets are very often illogical and that is where they will be caught flat footed. Which also explains why they have no regrets because they are still convinced they are right and somehow the markets and everyone else got it wrong.
The irony of it is, they will be right eventually. Temasek is holding on to paper losses from these financial shares. So long as they don't realise the loss, they will make it back one day because the markets will NOT be down forever. Markets are cyclical. Booms follow busts and the cycle starts again. That is what they meant by investing for the long term.
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You see the PAP and govt related comapnies are run by very intellegent and highly educated people.
Like who?
Like Lee Kuan Yew and his bullshit eugenics?
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Like who?
Like Lee Kuan Yew and his bullshit eugenics?
Okay I agree LKY may not be the most popular politician around but he did make Singapore a success story (by world standards). It could have easily have gone the other way and Spore could have ended up as a third world country.
I am not going to defend the PAP govt because I also disagree with a lot of their policies. I am just trying to be objective and give my opinions.
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Originally posted by Simonmj:
Okay I agree LKY may not be the most popular politician around but he did make Singapore a success story (by world standards). It could have easily have gone the other way and Spore could have ended up as a third world country.
I am not going to defend the PAP govt because I also disagree with a lot of their policies. I am just trying to be objective and give my opinions.
Unfortunately that's pretty much the definition of a PAP defender in these forums... -
unfortunately, a lot of idiots think that their enemy's enemy is their bosom pal...
while those who try to tell them that there are some things the MIW did right, and some things they did wrong, are seen as MIW spies or whatever...
think about it, look around, open your eyes.. Singapore ain't that bad!
there are many things screwed up, there are many things wonderful.. but then, in everywhere on this planet short of in your own delusion, it's the same.. some are better, and i wager, a hell of a lot are worse...
we complain that we live in a "ratrace" but then, take a step back and ignore them all.. you can live a good life without joining in.. unless you really want to be a rat, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to join in...
and for those who insist that there is, we can't do anything to take you away from your own delusions...
i work hard at work, i complain a little, i have someone i love, i have the free time to spend with my loved ones, i have a family who is supportive and whom i love, i can travel anywhere on the planet and be friends with anyone i choose, talk shit over the interweb about the stupidities and some right things the MIW does, the deception and douchebaggery of CSJ... and i'm still around!
i can worship at church or temple or mosque or whatever if i want to
i can drop out of my job and be a bum if i want to..
if i feel like it, i can go stand for elections provided i do not have a sordid or criminal past...
it's not that bad a life..
i choose to be happy... i choose to see that the world may be a dark place but the little sphere of influence around me isn't..
it's not that bad a life
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while those who try to tell them that there are some things the MIW did right, and some things they did wrong, are seen as MIW spies or whatever...
I thought those who criticise PAP are PAP moles?
So you changed your logic?
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Originally posted by Simonmj:
The portfolio mix is determined by Temasek's investment policy. If every sector is going down, then even if Temasek invest 10% in financials and 90% in other sectors, the loss will be just as great. I can give two reasons why Temasek is overweight in financials.
1. The shares they bought were once blue chip high quality banking stocks. They are also protected and supported by foreign governments. So the chances of these companies going bust are slim. ie. the risk is of losing it all is actually less compared to companies like ABC learning which shares are worthless now.
2. The prices of the banking shares are selling at huge discounts. Never have the prices plunged to these low levels in recent history and it is a window of opportunity to pick up these shares for a song. Temasek is taking a huge gamble but it is a calculated risk. Warren Buffet, one of the world most successful investor once said, "When everyone is greedy, be fearful. When everyone is fearful, be greedy". Temasek is following that doctrine and I think they will be vindicated when the markets eventually recover, maybe in a few years time.
About admitting mistakes, it is very hard for Ho Ching to do it. You see the PAP and govt related companies are run by very intellegent and highly educated people.But they suffer from one big weakness. That is, they cannot accept the fact that they can be wrong because all their lives, they have used their intelligence to solve and overcome complex problems. This gave them the illusion that by using logic, they can figure out the markets and beat the system. Unfortunately the markets are very often illogical and that is where they will be caught flat footed. Which also explains why they have no regrets because they are still convinced they are right and somehow the markets and everyone else got it wrong.
The irony of it is, they will be right eventually. Temasek is holding on to paper losses from these financial shares. So long as they don't realise the loss, they will make it back one day because the markets will NOT be down forever. Markets are cyclical. Booms follow busts and the cycle starts again. That is what they meant by investing for the long term.
The portfolio mix is determined by Temasek's investment policy. If every sector is going down, then even if Temasek invest 10% in financials and 90% in other sectors, the loss will be just as great. I can give two reasons why Temasek is overweight in financials.
Its true all sectors would go down but of a different extent. SPH or SMRT may decline 20% but financial stocks like DBS has declined up to 66%. Temasek in my opinion has violated the principles of diversification and has taken disproportionate risks by overinvesting in the financial sector
About admitting mistakes, it is very hard for Ho Ching to do it. You see the PAP and govt related companies are run by very intellegent and highly educated people.But they suffer from one big weakness. That is, they cannot accept the fact that they can be wrong because all their lives, they have used their intelligence to solve and overcome complex problems. This gave them the illusion that by using logic, they can figure out the markets and beat the system. Unfortunately the markets are very often illogical and that is where they will be caught flat footed. Which also explains why they have no regrets because they are still convinced they are right and somehow the markets and everyone else got it wrong.
PAP is used to having their way. They can insist they are right after making a mistake because they control the newspaper,the TV and information from various govt agencies. The worry is that one day when PAP makes a big mistake and opposition voice is drown out in the parliament like the recent Job Credit Scheme, we may in for even bigger financial diasters.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I thought those who criticise PAP are PAP moles?
So you changed your logic?
what are you trying to say?the moment i criticise CSJ, i become a MIW mole, a spy, a supporter, a running dog.. i've been called all that by brainless idiots who suck up to anyone who makes a lot of noise like empty vessels..
i figure you idiots who blindly eat up CSJ's shit like it was caviar do more damage to the opposition cause than the MIW can ever do...
now think about it...
i've said it before.. you idiots hanker for democracy yet you do not even begin to understand the responsibility behind it.. charlatans like CSJ don't.. you don't.. neither do a lot of the people in SC..
one of the biggest responsibilities of democracy is to accept the vote of the majority... instead of cursing them for supporting others, look at yourselves and figure out why you lost the elections..
have you done that?
no party, MIW or whatever is bigger than the country.. the MIW has behaved like they are bigger than the country.. sadly, the anything-but-MIW have behaved the same way, equating the MIW with the country.. and end up hating the very country...
YOU are guilty of that too... you revel whenever Singapore runs into a hurdle.. because you can blame the MIW?
there's a sick perversity in your glee..
which is... pretty disgusting..
get your head out of your ass..
NO PARTY IS BIGGER THAN THE COUNTRY!
just like no fricken party owns my loyalty.. my loyalty is to my country.. and party loyalty is rancid spit compared to that..
you whiners don't seem to understand that either...
to you, people have to either worship the MIW or the opposition..
i do not like either... i will only give my vote to whomever can serve my country better...
and frankly, your false god of CSJ serves only himself and his delusion.. i find his attention-whoring deplorable because it distracts from the policies, the issues and everything we need to face and tackle.. giving the MIW ammunition to distract the people, and feeding CSJ's need for attention..
now.. back to this topic started by another who has buried his head in the sand.. how the hell does he figure Singapore doesn't know how dark the world is?
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Unfortunately that's pretty much the definition of a PAP defender in these forums...Oops. I'm confused. Could you please enlighten me on the definition of a PAP defender? And is a PAP defender the same thing as a PAP mole?
What is MIW, CSJ?
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what are you trying to say?the moment i criticise CSJ, i become a MIW mole, a spy, a supporter, a running dog.. i've been called all that by brainless idiots who suck up to anyone who makes a lot of noise like empty vessels..
i figure you idiots who blindly eat up CSJ's shit like it was caviar do more damage to the opposition cause than the MIW can ever do...
Yawnz... zzz...zzz...
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And is a PAP defender the same thing as a PAP mole?
Ask the bear.
He may be a PAP mole too you know.
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Originally posted by Simonmj:
Oops. I'm confused. Could you please enlighten me on the definition of a PAP defender? And is a PAP defender the same thing as a PAP mole?
What is MIW, CSJ?
Basically supporting everything the PAP say or do, with emphasis on "everything". Though it's more of a label than accurately describing anyone. No one really does that here.
Depends, to some individuals it's the same thing.
MIW i'm not too sure. Don't understand why Bear use it over the PAP or government.
CSJ is Chee Soon Juan
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MIW
???
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Originally posted by kilua:
The portfolio mix is determined by Temasek's investment policy. If every sector is going down, then even if Temasek invest 10% in financials and 90% in other sectors, the loss will be just as great. I can give two reasons why Temasek is overweight in financials.
Its true all sectors would go down but of a different extent. SPH or SMRT may decline 20% but financial stocks like DBS has declined up to 66%. Temasek in my opinion has violated the principles of diversification and has taken disproportionate risks by overinvesting in the financial sector
About admitting mistakes, it is very hard for Ho Ching to do it. You see the PAP and govt related companies are run by very intellegent and highly educated people.But they suffer from one big weakness. That is, they cannot accept the fact that they can be wrong because all their lives, they have used their intelligence to solve and overcome complex problems. This gave them the illusion that by using logic, they can figure out the markets and beat the system. Unfortunately the markets are very often illogical and that is where they will be caught flat footed. Which also explains why they have no regrets because they are still convinced they are right and somehow the markets and everyone else got it wrong.
PAP is used to having their way. They can insist they are right after making a mistake because they control the newspaper,the TV and information from various govt agencies. The worry is that one day when PAP makes a big mistake and opposition voice is drown out in the parliament like the recent Job Credit Scheme, we may in for even bigger financial diasters.
Its true all sectors would go down but of a different extent. SPH or SMRT may decline 20% but financial stocks like DBS has declined up to 66%. Temasek in my opinion has violated the principles of diversification and has taken disproportionate risks by overinvesting in the financial sector
I do not claim to know the reasons behind Temasek's decisions in overinvesting in the financial sector but I am guessing it could be like this:
Say you have two blue chip companies like SPH and DBS. Both are well run profitable companies and you are neutral to choosing either. Normally to spread your risks, you buy 50% in SPH and 50% in DBS. But what if the price of DBS drops 3 times the price of SPH. It is seen as a bigger bargain and better value. Would you buy more of DBS then? In the case of Temasek, they decided it is worth the disproportinate risks because the returns are going to be much higher when the markets recover. Are they right in their decisons. Let the market judge. So far in the short term they are wrong. But we have to also judge them over the long term and let history decide if they are right or wrong.
PAP is used to having their way. They can insist they are right after making a mistake because they control the newspaper,the TV and information from various govt agencies. The worry is that one day when PAP makes a big mistake and opposition voice is drown out in the parliament like the recent Job Credit Scheme, we may in for even bigger financial diasters.
The question you have to ask is why is PAP having their way. Who voted them in every election? The American people voted Bush and realised their big mistake and booted him out. Are Sporeans willing to do the same thing? The choice is yours.
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Yoz bro !!! good topic , I just when to oz for studies in oct last yr and since being in oz i have heard and read so much things about singapore that i couldnt find when i was in sg !!!!
Now i have total hatred for the singapore garment !!!! you guys are getting farked over!!
just a few wks back i was talking to these group of aussies and they told me their garment is going to give them $950 each while OUR GARMENT IS GIVING us $200 each and we are so farking happy.