S'pore needs immigrants to survive: MM
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
ha ha ha--
Yore forefathers were also imported foreigners,unless u are Malay!!
goodness, are you typing with your feet? -
Originally posted by reyes:
PAP probably micro management ageing issue instead of Macro factors.
understand why couples are not having babies.
eg. govt increase subsidies to childcare, but childcare center increase fees.
who will want to stay here when they are going to dump you in other countries when you grow old and no longer productive! -
Originally posted by pearlie27:
who will want to stay here when they are going to dump you in other countries when you grow old and no longer productive!Hanor.
All the new citizens better come in with their eyes wide open.
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Originally posted by fishbuff1:
wall of text : +10 damages
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20090321-130082.html
SINGAPORE, March 21, 2009 (AFP) - Singapore, which is facing its worst recession in history, needs foreigners to survive in the long-term, founding father Lee Kuan Yew said.
The city-state is not reproducing itself fast enough and the government has in recent years opened its doors to attract more talented migrants to avert a serious population shortage.
"Without new citizens and permanent residents, we are going to be 'The Last of the Mohicans'. We will disappear," Lee, 85, told an audience at a local university late Friday.
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e is the country's first prime minister and remains an influential figure. He is an adviser in his son Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's cabinet with the title minister mentor.
Singapore needs a fertility rate of 2.1 babies per woman to maintain its population naturally but a string of incentives including monetary ones to encourage Singaporeans to have babies has failed to make an impact.
A report released this month by the Department of Statistics showed 39,935 babies were born in 2008, well short of the 60,000 births the country needs each year.
Singapore has a population of 4.84 million, including about one million foreigners who work in the country and their families.
The local economy is projected to shrink by up to 5.0 percent in 2009 and the elder Lee told the audience at the university it may take up to six years to recover in a worse-case scenario.
In a sign of how tough times are, Singaporeans trained as engineers are looking for jobs such as bus drivers once shunned by locals, The Straits Times reported Saturday.
but i thouhgt there is an exodus of ft?
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Reading this thread i have been particularly put off by almost all of Ah Chia's posts. Call it personal choice or whatever, but his biased and extremist criticisms towards our founding father is akin to biting the hand that fed you. Do remember that his contributions have given you so much comfort such that you can hide behind your computer and type so much complaints and unhappiness bout this country and him. And its ludicrous that you can actually say that immigrants come here and mess up our social fabric when Singapore has been literally been grown over the years with an immigrant population. Unless you can trace your family tree and tell me your ancestors are natives of some sort then dude look in the mirror - you are a descendant of immigrants.
There is a need to view the influx of immigrants in a more positive light. Firstly to address the number of jobs being taken up by locals, it is necessary to realize that the quality of the job taken up is more important than quality. Also the time frame at the which the sample was taken. If lower end jobs were the majority available at that time, then it is but a reflection of the government's policy to bring in more low wage workers to take the lower end jobs in the spectrum to encourage our people towards developing themselves into skilled labour and work further up in the hierachy. If to you this is a bad thing then perhaps you would like your own people to be the construction workers or roadsweepers. Expats on the other hand are necessary in both improving the standard of our workforce and for sharing of work experience. It is necessary to realize such labour movement is not uni-directional but rather multi-directional and is all part of a globalization effort. Perhaps what would be more alarming is the phenomenon of 'brain-drain' whereby we lose our talents to overseas job markets without attracting much of our own. For Singapore to progress into a truly developed nation with economic muscle and for a better standard of living, weaving ourselves into the globalized network is crucial for our little island. The effort to bring in more immigrants is but a part of a greater effort for prosperity and growth in the long term.
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It is not Singapore who needs immigrants to survive. It is lee kuan yew and PAP who need them to survive. Without immigrants life still goes on.
LKY is just using the country's name to cover his pain arse.
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Originally posted by speakup-:
Reading this thread i have been particularly put off by almost all of Ah Chia's posts. Call it personal choice or whatever, but his biased and extremist criticisms towards our founding father is akin to biting the hand that fed you. Do remember that his contributions have given you so much comfort such that you can hide behind your computer and type so much complaints and unhappiness bout this country and him. And its ludicrous that you can actually say that immigrants come here and mess up our social fabric when Singapore has been literally been grown over the years with an immigrant population. Unless you can trace your family tree and tell me your ancestors are natives of some sort then dude look in the mirror - you are a descendant of immigrants.
There is a need to view the influx of immigrants in a more positive light. Firstly to address the number of jobs being taken up by locals, it is necessary to realize that the quality of the job taken up is more important than quality. Also the time frame at the which the sample was taken. If lower end jobs were the majority available at that time, then it is but a reflection of the government's policy to bring in more low wage workers to take the lower end jobs in the spectrum to encourage our people towards developing themselves into skilled labour and work further up in the hierachy. If to you this is a bad thing then perhaps you would like your own people to be the construction workers or roadsweepers. Expats on the other hand are necessary in both improving the standard of our workforce and for sharing of work experience. It is necessary to realize such labour movement is not uni-directional but rather multi-directional and is all part of a globalization effort. Perhaps what would be more alarming is the phenomenon of 'brain-drain' whereby we lose our talents to overseas job markets without attracting much of our own. For Singapore to progress into a truly developed nation with economic muscle and for a better standard of living, weaving ourselves into the globalized network is crucial for our little island. The effort to bring in more immigrants is but a part of a greater effort for prosperity and growth in the long term.
The above is nothing but crap. ha ha ha! -
Originally posted by speakup-:
Reading this thread i have been particularly put off by almost all of Ah Chia's posts. Call it personal choice or whatever, but his biased and extremist criticisms towards our founding father is akin to biting the hand that fed you. Do remember that his contributions have given you so much comfort such that you can hide behind your computer and type so much complaints and unhappiness bout this country and him. And its ludicrous that you can actually say that immigrants come here and mess up our social fabric when Singapore has been literally been grown over the years with an immigrant population. Unless you can trace your family tree and tell me your ancestors are natives of some sort then dude look in the mirror - you are a descendant of immigrants.
There is a need to view the influx of immigrants in a more positive light. Firstly to address the number of jobs being taken up by locals, it is necessary to realize that the quality of the job taken up is more important than quality. Also the time frame at the which the sample was taken. If lower end jobs were the majority available at that time, then it is but a reflection of the government's policy to bring in more low wage workers to take the lower end jobs in the spectrum to encourage our people towards developing themselves into skilled labour and work further up in the hierachy. If to you this is a bad thing then perhaps you would like your own people to be the construction workers or roadsweepers. Expats on the other hand are necessary in both improving the standard of our workforce and for sharing of work experience. It is necessary to realize such labour movement is not uni-directional but rather multi-directional and is all part of a globalization effort. Perhaps what would be more alarming is the phenomenon of 'brain-drain' whereby we lose our talents to overseas job markets without attracting much of our own. For Singapore to progress into a truly developed nation with economic muscle and for a better standard of living, weaving ourselves into the globalized network is crucial for our little island. The effort to bring in more immigrants is but a part of a greater effort for prosperity and growth in the long term.
We don't depend on lky to feed us. on the contrary, lky is depending on us to feed him, please get the facts right before you point fingers, knn!
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Nobody is saying we don't need new immigrants.
Just that it seems to be increasing at a rate that is too close for comfort.
An anology here.
There are currently 8 persons on a row boat for 10.
To achieve optimum performance, you need to get another 2 more persons to fill up the remaining spaces.
Somehow, somebody decided that we should get another 6 more (More is good!) instead of just 2.
In a boat made for 10 persons, there are now 14 persons.
The boat is starting to look cramp.
And might even topple over if there is too much people on board rocking the boat.
Get it?
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Its ok if 2 are recruited to fill the gap.
But when the old is removed (thank you very much for rowing in the past) but we need to move forward or we will take in water and sink. And younger rowers are preferred.
Then the local is removed ( you can't row as good as the foreign talents) but we need to compete, go train as a helper and you can help on the sidelines.
Can't help it, remember no boat, we all die.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
We don't depend on lky to feed us. on the contrary, lky is depending on us to feed him, please get the facts right before you point fingers, knn!
ORLY???????
if not for LKY, where would Singapore be today?
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i think my mistake is: seeing the people in/of the country as the country. when you all are merely a part of the country.
such that, if not for LKY, you all would probably still 'be here'. But whether as Singaporeans or what, that's another question...
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Originally posted by udontknowme:
ORLY???????
if not for LKY, where would Singapore be today?
Please do not ignore the hardwork and contributions of the older generation of singaporeans and PAP old guards. They had contributed selflessly to the country's success but are often ignored and forgotten by many singaporeans.Without them, there would not even be a statement "if not for LKY, where would Singapore be today?"
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Originally posted by speakup-:
Reading this thread i have been particularly put off by almost all of Ah Chia's posts. Call it personal choice or whatever, but his biased and extremist criticisms towards our founding father is akin to biting the hand that fed you. Do remember that his contributions have given you so much comfort such that you can hide behind your computer and type so much complaints and unhappiness bout this country and him. And its ludicrous that you can actually say that immigrants come here and mess up our social fabric when Singapore has been literally been grown over the years with an immigrant population. Unless you can trace your family tree and tell me your ancestors are natives of some sort then dude look in the mirror - you are a descendant of immigrants.
There is a need to view the influx of immigrants in a more positive light. Firstly to address the number of jobs being taken up by locals, it is necessary to realize that the quality of the job taken up is more important than quality. Also the time frame at the which the sample was taken. If lower end jobs were the majority available at that time, then it is but a reflection of the government's policy to bring in more low wage workers to take the lower end jobs in the spectrum to encourage our people towards developing themselves into skilled labour and work further up in the hierachy. If to you this is a bad thing then perhaps you would like your own people to be the construction workers or roadsweepers. Expats on the other hand are necessary in both improving the standard of our workforce and for sharing of work experience. It is necessary to realize such labour movement is not uni-directional but rather multi-directional and is all part of a globalization effort. Perhaps what would be more alarming is the phenomenon of 'brain-drain' whereby we lose our talents to overseas job markets without attracting much of our own. For Singapore to progress into a truly developed nation with economic muscle and for a better standard of living, weaving ourselves into the globalized network is crucial for our little island. The effort to bring in more immigrants is but a part of a greater effort for prosperity and growth in the long term.
Vitamins is good for health in small dosage but over dosage of vitamins will have serious implications later.A small dosage of immigrants (expats who are skilled and experience) in the past maybe good for the country but the country is now suffering from an over dosage of immigrants (foreign 'talents' who are 'skilled' and 'experience') and that doesn't seem to be good.
These immigrants will not settle in this country for life, once they have earned enough to live like a king in their home country, they will leave.
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For those who claim that there is an overdosage of immigrants perhaps you can enlighten me on the various sources that gave you that idea. I particularly like charlize's analogy as i think it brings across the potential problem quite succinctly. However to a certain extent the problem has been oversimplified. Unlike a boat, countries can be grown and developed to accomodate a growing population. Its productive capacity can be expanded, housing and amenities be developed and in the long run to achieve greater economic growth. By saying that too much immigrants may overload the boat is akin to saying we should reproduce less beccause our population is inflating beyond what our infrastructure can take. It is not true on 2 counts and firstly is what most of us today has recognized as an ageing population phenomena that probably requires us to bring in more foreigners to bridge the shortfall between birth and death rates. Secondly as Prof. Edward Glazer an economist in Harvard pointed out in a recent ST article the country is more than capable of housing a 6.5m population.
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Originally posted by speakup-:
For those who claim that there is an overdosage of immigrants perhaps you can enlighten me on the various sources that gave you that idea. I particularly like charlize's analogy as i think it brings across the potential problem quite succinctly. However to a certain extent the problem has been oversimplified. Unlike a boat, countries can be grown and developed to accomodate a growing population. Its productive capacity can be expanded, housing and amenities be developed and in the long run to achieve greater economic growth. By saying that too much immigrants may overload the boat is akin to saying we should reproduce less beccause our population is inflating beyond what our infrastructure can take. It is not true on 2 counts and firstly is what most of us today has recognized as an ageing population phenomena that probably requires us to bring in more foreigners to bridge the shortfall between birth and death rates. Secondly as Prof. Edward Glazer an economist in Harvard pointed out in a recent ST article the country is more than capable of housing a 6.5m population.
Go walk around Geylang - you find a lot of the overdosage !!!
Go down to the ground level - eat at most food court - you be serve by china folks !!!
Why is there so many prositues - didn't the govt give them visiting pass or other permit to come in.
Why is the whole food court full of china worker - where it the ratio of a number of singapore workers to foreign workers been enforce ?
If you want to let the oversea immigrants come in - it is ok, but you too relax in the rules and regulation - till they all come in via not the official way !!! If government can close a blind eye and ignore their own laws set by them and not strictly enforcing - all the prositutes issues and companies not following the number of foregin work to local ratio - then they themselves have broken the rules they lay down, so how they expect local citizens to be happy and respect them !!!
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Originally posted by speakup-:
For those who claim that there is an overdosage of immigrants perhaps you can enlighten me on the various sources that gave you that idea. I particularly like charlize's analogy as i think it brings across the potential problem quite succinctly. However to a certain extent the problem has been oversimplified. Unlike a boat, countries can be grown and developed to accomodate a growing population. Its productive capacity can be expanded, housing and amenities be developed and in the long run to achieve greater economic growth. By saying that too much immigrants may overload the boat is akin to saying we should reproduce less beccause our population is inflating beyond what our infrastructure can take. It is not true on 2 counts and firstly is what most of us today has recognized as an ageing population phenomena that probably requires us to bring in more foreigners to bridge the shortfall between birth and death rates. Secondly as Prof. Edward Glazer an economist in Harvard pointed out in a recent ST article the country is more than capable of housing a 6.5m population.
another pap mouthpiece but this one writes good english!
but paragraph please!
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speakup, you want to be PAP propaganda mouthpiece you must do properly, otherwise people won't take you seriously.
I help you post more clearly:
Proper way to spread PAP propaganda:
For those who claim that there is an overdosage of immigrants perhaps you can enlighten me on the various sources that gave you that idea.
I particularly like charlize's analogy as i think it brings across the potential problem quite succinctly.
However to a certain extent the problem has been oversimplified.
Unlike a boat, countries can be grown and developed to accomodate a growing population.
Its productive capacity can be expanded, housing and amenities be developed and in the long run to achieve greater economic growth. By saying that too much immigrants may overload the boat is akin to saying we should reproduce less beccause our population is inflating beyond what our infrastructure can take.
It is not true on 2 counts and firstly is what most of us today has recognized as an ageing population phenomena that probably requires us to bring in more foreigners to bridge the shortfall between birth and death rates.
Secondly as Prof. Edward Glazer an economist in Harvard pointed out in a recent ST article the country is more than capable of housing a 6.5m population.
Like that, got paragraph, bold the important points, the post is more clearer.
Can brainwash people more effectively.
Like that sure got people brainwashed by your propaganda.
Not bad.
I look forward to improved PAP propaganda from you speakup.
Want to sell propaganda, must sell properly.
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singapore'simmigration rules are lax because we dont have social welfare here. If the freigners come here, they need to fend for themselves, in other countries like OZ, rules are stricter because of the welfare. they are wary of people who may want to just gain residency in the country and enjoy the welfare.
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I think singapore can house 6.5 million population provided there is enough infrastructure and well planned to support this number. As of current belief, to the naysayer, this figure will not be possible because all he sees is overcrowded trains, buses and public places giving the impression that there is no more room left.
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Yes i will take note of the paragraph. PAP mouthpiece or not i think i know best im just being objective here. I agree with wordlybusinessman that our public transport system gives the feeling of being overloaded due to the fact that trains and buses are crowded and places like Orchard Road and City Hall are bustling with people. This maybe my perception but i feel this is but a phenomena brought about by progress and development into a metropolitan city. Just look at the neighbouring Shanghai and Tokyo and even increasingly Mumbai. When cities grow it would inevitably lead to concentration of people in the concrete jungle we live in. Perhaps this can be percieved as a small price to pay for progress rather than a sign of overload.
And honestly i think its unfair to accuse the government of 'relaxing' laws on foreign employment as i certainly think that is not the case. Regular 'cleanups' and hefty penalties for employment and housing of foreign workers are efforts on the part of the authorities to ensure we live in a safe community and foreigners amongst us are of credible moral standards.
Lastly the concentration of PRC workers in places such as hawker centres serving food or cleaning up is not a sign that there is an overload of immigrants, neither is it that employment ratio regulations are failing. It is merely that Singaporeans are moving away from such low end jobs to pursuit better and higher employment for a better life. The foreigners are brought in not to steal the people's jobs, but do what our people do not want to do at lower wage-rates and maintaining our competitiveness. Perhaps what is more pressing would be that these workers coming in would depress the wages of unskilled labour so much so that existing Singaporeans in these jobs who are unable to upgrade themselves or find better jobs due to their educational shortfall would suffer. This is a more pertinent issue as compared to the idea of overpopulation.
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I think Singapore can support a population of 10-15 million people.
This can help support a domestic consumption economy.
We need to import another 8-10 million PRC foreigners in next 10 years to achieve the target.
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I support the idea of Singapore importing another 10-20 million PRC foreigners in next 10 years.
Good for economy.
It will benefit Singaporeans(local).
What Singapore needs now is more foreigners.
Now only 1/3 of people in Singapore are foreigners.
We should increase this to 2/3.
More foreigners in Singapore will help Singaporeans(local), so I support.
Create more jobs for foreigners also.
Not bad.
Less than 3 in 10 jobs went to citizens: no real figures on citizens given by MOM
http://wayangparty.com/?p=6548
http://wayangparty.com/?p=6155
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Singapore does need immigrants to survive because our birth rates are indeed low. But.... things to ponder:
First:
Easy availability of cheaper foreign workers depress salaries.
Salaries low then leads to stress cuz need money to pay this pay that.
Birth rates low because of high stress and money not enough, etc.
High stress because work stress.
Work stress because money not enough.
Money not enough because salary rise is slower than rise in taxes, inflation, property prices, etc, combined.
Salary low because of easy availability of cheaper foreign workers.
Vicious cycle, never ending.
Second:
If there aren't any distinct advantages in employing foreign workers, why would there be a need to limit companies on the ratio of foreign workers to Singaporeans? -
Originally posted by Ah Chia:
I support the idea of Singapore importing another 10-20 million PRC foreigners in next 10 years.
Good for economy.
It will benefit Singaporeans(local).
What Singapore needs now is more foreigners.
Now only 1/3 of people in Singapore are foreigners.
We should increase this to 2/3.
More foreigners in Singapore will help Singaporeans(local), so I support.
Create more jobs for foreigners also.
Not bad.
Less than 3 in 10 jobs went to citizens: no real figures on citizens given by MOM
http://wayangparty.com/?p=6548
http://wayangparty.com/?p=6155
no la, must balance with some from the West, some from around India, some from Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, etc, so as to balance the races